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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
4
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yeah this sucks, this totally screwed our whole alliance from being able to compete in PC by making the starting price 80 mil... We have 8 small corps that have been working their asses off to have 20 mil isk for the startup.
PC was just ruined...now the big corps will get bigger and have more money and power, what a waste of what would have been fun for everyone.
Now it will be fun for no one, there will be I assume 10 different corps competing in conquest.  |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
5
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can.[/quote]
ill admit it fucks up smaller corps
they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move[/quote]
It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys.
[/quote]
Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC.[/quote]
Disagree
Taxes will help and I hope are added into the game, but if your corp can sustain itself without taxes than you may need to rethink you management style.
If you can't get your corp to pull together 80m ISK than you need to either reconsider your corps involvement with PC or start recruiting.
80m ISK / 16 man tema = 5m ISK per person. Most people can get 5m ISK in about 2/3 nights worth of pubs...[/quote]
Pretty much this. Like FoxFour said, we've done the math. If your corp can't save 5-10 mil per player to pay for 2 or 3 starter packs then you probably can't sustain being involved in PC anyway.
We like that its a big group investment too, diplomacy and recruitment is as much a part of PC as the ground battle.[/quote]
It's a good thought in theory but you're totally disregarding the fact that we can pull mercs in from other corps to help with battles, this is why alliances of small corps are starting to pop up, this way we small corps can help each other sustain PC together... Well we could anyways but now with the 80 mil entry, you're right, we can't sustain. But now we can't sustain because we were set up for failure before PC even launches.
I wish you guys would reconsider the starting price.
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xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
5
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:
I wish you guys would reconsider the starting price.
This is why it was necessary: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=671394#post671394Without the increase, the largest corps were going to be able to buy EVERYTHING on the first day by using shell corporations. This is not speculation- we already heard that a number of big boys were planning to do so. This at least slows them down and gives a few other corporations a shot at getting a foot in the door. The solution, from a small corp standpoint, is recruitment, leadership, and peer pressure. If your corp can't raise 80M ISK, then you really didn't have a shot under the old system either. I'm not trying to be mean, just accurate.
This is such a load of crap!!
If they would go back to one genolution pack for each corp if you don't own a district we don't have this problem.
But since they've made it unlimited genolution clones, you're right... All the big corps will snatch up all the districts day 1 |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
5
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:@KatanaPT & @xLTShinySidesx:
What terms are you using to define "small" and "niche" corps?
I agree with you that I want small and niche corps to be able to compete in PC. Scrap together 80m ISK and then with your elite niche players, hold your single district and use your alliance members to help you hold it like you said. You literally have over 30 days of playing before PC launches. If you truly wanted to be a part it, it seems very reasonable to me that each of your "dedicated" and "niche" corp mates can generate 10m ISK
(quotation marks were not used in a derogatory or demeaning way)
Most of our alliance corps have 4-25 recruits, we're the biggest with 44 members but only about 15 active players |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
5
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:
This is why it was necessary:
Without the increase, the largest corps were going to be able to buy EVERYTHING on the first day by using shell corporations.
This is such a load of crap!! If they would go back to one genolution pack for each corp if you don't own a district we don't have this problem. But since they've made it unlimited genolution clones, you're right... All the big corps will snatch up all the districts day 1 Please note the bolded and underlined phrase. The big corps were going to found a million shell corporations that had 20M ISK in the bank and those shell corps were going to each buy ONE starter pack and take over ONE district. They were then going to "lose" those districts to the "mother" corporation.
That's fine but at least our small corps would be given the opportunity to get in, now we aren't which just makes the problem worse.
We have an alliance of 8 corps that are banded together to help defend our districts, with the 20 mil isk starting point, it would have been sustainable but at 80 it just isn't. |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
5
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:
Most of our alliance corps have 4-25 recruits, we're the biggest with 44 members but only about 15 active players
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just clear. I do not see an "alliance" underneath your corporation name. That means you are in a "coalition". Alliance has a very specific, game mechanics-driven definition in New Eden.
Correct, I'm just a little angry right now. |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
6
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:
I wish you guys would reconsider the starting price.
This is why it was necessary: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=671394#post671394Without the increase, the largest corps were going to be able to buy EVERYTHING on the first day by using shell corporations. This is not speculation- we already heard that a number of big boys were planning to do so. This at least slows them down and gives a few other corporations a shot at getting a foot in the door. The solution, from a small corp standpoint, is recruitment, leadership, and peer pressure. If your corp can't raise 80M ISK, then you really didn't have a shot under the old system either. I'm not trying to be mean, just accurate. This is such a load of crap!! If they would go back to one genolution pack for each corp if you don't own a district we don't have this problem. But since they've made it unlimited genolution clones, you're right... All the big corps will snatch up all the districts day 1 Please see this post here
Look, I understand the whole shell corp thing but the mad dash for districts is going to be worse now and cost the corps less money... Before the change, these corps would be losing 20 mil isk for every "shell corp" taking a district for them, now they won't be losing any money because they don't have to go fight and take the district away from there shell corp.
All raising the price does is keep the little guys out.
Every argument I've seen against my stance has been from big corps.
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xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
6
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:
Most of our alliance corps have 4-25 recruits, we're the biggest with 44 members but only about 15 active players
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just clear. I do not see an "alliance" underneath your corporation name. That means you are in a "coalition". Alliance has a very specific, game mechanics-driven definition in New Eden. Correct, I'm just a little angry right now. You could consolidate your corps into one (mine). Or join an Alliance (mine).
We don't want to consolidate, we like our corps and that's why we did the coalition.. All of our corps are small friend based corps that want to get all the fun out of the game, however, I feel like things here run like they do in our government, the fat get fatter and the poor get poorer. |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
8
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:Look, I understand the whole shell corp thing but the mad dash for districts is going to be worse now and cost the corps less money... Before the change, these corps would be losing 20 mil isk for every "shell corp" taking a district for them, now they won't be losing any money because they don't have to go fight and take the district away from there shell corp.
All raising the price does is keep the little guys out.
Every argument I've seen against my stance has been from big corps.
You do seem to be forgetting that now, for every district, the ebil big corps have to shell out 80 mill rather than 20 - cutting the potential initial land grab by 75%
Are you accounting for the loss of clones needed to send to take the shell corp district?
You're still missing my point though, yeah it does make it a little less attractive for big corps to take multiple districts but it makes it impossible for a small corp to take one at all. |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
8
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Mad Mav wrote:I undertsand wanting to make the bigger corps work a little more, but raising the price by 60M ISK just completely takes us smaller corp's out of the game. The corp I'm in currently has around 30 members, 5 of which are pretty active. I doubt 5 of us could raise that much. I doubt 5 of you could hold a single district...
Which is why he's part of our coalition. |
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xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
9
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Posted - 2013.04.05 16:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:We don't want to consolidate, we like our corps and that's why we did the coalition.. All of our corps are small friend based corps that want to get all the fun out of the game, however, I feel like things here run like they do in our government, the fat get fatter and the poor get poorer. Please bear in mind that the Factional Warfare (FW) mechanic is also changing. Your corp will be able to participate in FW battles that affect territorial control between the big factions. Small corps are not cut off from the persistent universe of New Eden, just from PC. Corps that couldn't raise 80M from their members didn't have a snowball's chance in PC anyway even if the price had stayed the same.
Our coalition has backing from large corporations, we were going to be able to hold our districts. |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
9
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Posted - 2013.04.05 16:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:
Our coalition has backing from large corporations, we were going to be able to hold our districts.
Firstly, if they really back you, like for serious real, the big corp can transfer money to a member- "Bob". Bob can then join your corp, donate the money, and then transfer back to his corp. That's the method that Kain Spero was talking about for his money transfer service. Second, this is New Eden. I suspect that they are using you as one of the "Baby" corporations. They let YOU foot the bill for a starter pack, knowing that they could mow you down in a heartbeat. This means one less shell corporation that they had to create under the old system.
Not how it is, the backing we have is from a class act, he has proven to be on here and in game multiple times.
And if it did go down that way, shame on them but it wouldn't happen again |
xLTShinySidesx
UNOBTANIUM INC
10
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Posted - 2013.04.05 17:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:
You can buy 10 Genolution clone's packs with 1 corporation, this is not sustainable anymore.
Exactly. I was demonstrating how easily the old system was abusable and how the new, higher hurdle (while a pain to small corps) is actually better for avoiding an instant NAP Fest in which three Kaiju Corps hold everything by May 13.
It will only affect the small corps.
The large corps will still grab 20-30 districts on opening day.
I don't see how this is any better, at least before it was going to be a total pain in the ass for corps to get multiple districts, now the flood gates are open.
I'm done with this topic now, agree to disagree but this only f**** the little guys. |
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