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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
27
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! *sarcasm* |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
27
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:KatanaPT wrote:wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! *sarcasm* We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can.
Im sorry but you are wrong in that assumption, you assume that with the current flawed way of corporations getting isk ( by donation) works with everyone polling in, but thats not the case as there are no doubt some cheap members in any corp and also i have no way to track who has donated (this seriously needs to get implemented).Without taxes and just relying in the good faith of all the corp members any small to medium corp (mine is i think at 35 members) is at a risk of not getting the isk needed to start in PC. And as you just said "for corporations that have enough active members", by active you cant infer donations. Im sorry for the rant but all i see is mega corps and alliances who already are rich beyond my wildest ideas just getting richer, and small corps who arent able to get donations but have active members, completly out of one of the strong points of why me and certainly many players have kept playing Dust, for not what it is now, but for what it can become. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
27
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:KatanaPT wrote:wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! *sarcasm* We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys.
Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
PC is a strong selling point ot Dust, and its something we would like to invest in. So we did, by asking corp members to donate, i cant force ppl to donate nor i can control who did and when. I have a small corp and really wanted a small, very small, niche in PC, just a place to stomp our boot in, even if we would lose it after a while. Assumption is the mother of all screw ups, and Devs and most rich ppl in Dust assume that everyone has millions in wallet, that everyone can and will donate millions, that corps are rich, etc. But thats not the case, im not saying that i dont have enough man power, or that my individual corp players dont have lots of isk, im saying that as a corp its very difficult to get isk in corp wallet. As for management and recruiting im doing the best i can, not perfect, but im doing something. We had a plan and basically this new numbers just screwed it. And YES taxes would solve ALOT of problems.
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
tastzlike chicken wrote:KatanaPT wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:KatanaPT wrote:wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! *sarcasm* We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. Im sorry but you are wrong in that assumption, you assume that with the current flawed way of corporations getting isk ( by donation) works with everyone polling in, but thats not the case as there are no doubt some cheap members in any corp and also i have no way to track who has donated (this seriously needs to get implemented).Without taxes and just relying in the good faith of all the corp members any small to medium corp (mine is i think at 35 members) is at a risk of not getting the isk needed to start in PC. And as you just said "for corporations that have enough active members", by active you cant infer donations. Im sorry for the rant but all i see is mega corps and alliances who already are rich beyond my wildest ideas just getting richer, and small corps who arent able to get donations but have active members, completly out of one of the strong points of why me and certainly many players have kept playing Dust, for not what it is now, but for what it can become. Well, someone beat me too it. The absence of corporation management tools and interface has been an ongoing irritation. Pertinent to this discussion is: -the inability to set tax rates -the inability to track player donations -the inability to set roles and limit access to the main wallet while preserving other helpful abilities of directors (the only role available) -the inability to email your corporation en masse (unless you have an EVE side director or CEO -even then you have to do a work around). CCP you have done very little to enable corporations to manage and develop their economic interests and I feel that your internal calculations about PC required a lot of unjustifiable presumptions. At a minimum, you have just raised the entry requirements to PC in a way that disadvantages small and medium sized corporations (assuming an even donation rate across the player base).
Thank you!
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:@KatanaPC & @xLTShinySidesx:
What terms are you using to define "small" and "niche" corps?
I agree with you that I want small and niche corps to be able to compete in PC. Scrap together 80m ISK and then with your elite niche players, hold your single district and use your alliance members to help you hold it like you said. You literally have over 30 days of playing before PC launches. If you truly wanted to be a part it, it seems very reasonable to me that each of your "dedicated" and "niche" corp mates can generate 10m ISK
(quotation marks were not used in a derogatory or demeaning way)
My corp has 35 members.
I cannot force a good player to donate, nor can i control when he did. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:Xander Mercy wrote:There's no need for a tax because when you go over the clone limit on a district the extra clones are sold automatically which then funds your corp without needing to tax your members So you don't see a use for a source of income not relating to PC for, oh I dunno, corps not involved in PC? They don't have any way to share gear right now. What else would they spend it on?
Help new players with isk. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Pretty much this. Like FoxFour said, we've done the math. If your corp can't save 5-10 mil per player to pay for 2 or 3 starter packs then you probably can't sustain being involved in PC anyway.
We like that its a big group investment too, diplomacy and recruitment is as much a part of PC as the ground battle.
So this means, small corps or corps with cheap but active players are out of PC?
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xander Mercy wrote:
blame your member for being cheap
What member? Imagine i have 10 guys in corp chat saying they donated 1mil each, and i go to corp walled and only saw 1mil donated. Shall i expel them all for lying? Promote them for being dirty bastars? Say thank you and go away? Im not saying you arent correct, which you are, you have nailed it in the head, too many players being cheap. But no way of controlling who isnt. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:Xander Mercy wrote:There's no need for a tax because when you go over the clone limit on a district the extra clones are sold automatically which then funds your corp without needing to tax your members they are having trouble with members benevolently donating to the corp (i assume)
Exactly and thank you for pointing that. No way to force ppl to donate, no way to control who did. Just to get things straight, im "kinda" complaining on the starting price for the clone package, but i woulndt be worried if there was a way to tax my active players to get the isk need for PC, thats it. |
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard
28
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:With trying to encourage people to donate, it would be nice if I could see a record of donations, and then keep those players in mind when the time comes for the actual corp battles.
If someone doesn't donate, you don't let them in your squads.
Currently I can't see. I can just ask and pray that people are honest.
This! .... |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
29
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mad Mav wrote:I undertsand wanting to make the bigger corps work a little more, but raising the price by 60M ISK just completely takes us smaller corp's out of the game. The corp I'm in currently has around 30 members, 5 of which are pretty active. I doubt 5 of us could raise that much.
We have more active ppl but i completly understand your point. We are in the same spot. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
29
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Posted - 2013.04.05 16:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:xLTShinySidesx wrote:We don't want to consolidate, we like our corps and that's why we did the coalition.. All of our corps are small friend based corps that want to get all the fun out of the game, however, I feel like things here run like they do in our government, the fat get fatter and the poor get poorer. Please bear in mind that the Factional Warfare (FW) mechanic is also changing. Your corp will be able to participate in FW battles that affect territorial control between the big factions. Small corps are not cut off from the persistent universe of New Eden, just from PC. Corps that couldn't raise 80M from their members didn't have a snowball's chance in PC anyway even if the price had stayed the same.
Yes to this, it may prove to be our plan, instead of PC |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
29
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Posted - 2013.04.05 23:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
jamstar saa187 wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:It's looking very likely we will introduce corporation tax, just a question of when. This just occurred to me, and i'm just putting it out there to further the discussion. (devil's advocate, if you will) if the problem with the 80 Mil entry point is that it is prohibitive to the smaller corps (and i agree with this point BTW, as i'm from one of those smaller Corps), how exactly will the tax help in the grand scheme or things? i ask this because, should a tax be implemented, i assume it would not be dependent on the corp size. (ie. every corp will now have a tax levy) so the larger corps will be receiving the tax also. if you follow this to it's logical conclusion this would mean that a large corp will be increasing their revenues also, plus at a higher rate than the smaller corps, 'cus.... well they have more members to tax. so how does this actually help the smaller corps? yeah they get to make ISK faster, but so do the Big Boys, and i'd assume they would be in an even better position to dominate after the influx of the new ISK tax.
This is a very valid point.
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