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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
828
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:KatanaPT wrote:wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! *sarcasm* We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move
It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys.
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
829
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:KatanaPT wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:KatanaPT wrote:wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! *sarcasm* We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys. Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC. Disagree Taxes will help and I hope are added into the game, but if your corp can sustain itself without taxes than you may need to rethink you management style. If you can't get your corp to pull together 80m ISK than you need to either reconsider your corps involvement with PC or start recruiting. 80m ISK / 16 man tema = 5m ISK per person. Most people can get 5m ISK in about 2/3 nights worth of pubs...
Pretty much this. Like FoxFour said, we've done the math. If your corp can't save 5-10 mil per player to pay for 2 or 3 starter packs then you probably can't sustain being involved in PC anyway.
We like that its a big group investment too, diplomacy and recruitment is as much a part of PC as the ground battle. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
834
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Posted - 2013.04.05 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's looking very likely we will introduce corporation tax, just a question of when. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
841
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Posted - 2013.04.05 18:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:My last concern is this: I thought DUST was going to allow for merc corporations to have a role in PC without the desire to actually own districts. Basically the ability to be contracted out for defense or attacks to gain or protect distrcits for other corps, especially EVE corps without any feet on the ground.
Is this not the case?
If so, how will this aspect of it work? How will a corporation be able to act as a mercenary corp to defend or attack districts? Will they be using their own clones, or the clones of the corp they are working for?
Subcontracting corporations to help attack and defend is next on our roadmap for PC features.
You can also currently do this using squads, if you have one of your corp members create a squad and pull people from outside of your corp into the battle they can fight for you and will be paid their share of the biomass rewards if you win. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
843
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Posted - 2013.04.05 23:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Well. This has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons and no mistake. Now aside from the additional cost the clones packs (which is a total killjoy for the more modest corps hoping to take part in this), the unlimited purchase of them has just given the larger corps exclusive rights to PC and totally destroys any chance of this being a strategic game mode. Within a week less than 10 corps will hold all the districts and with the winnings and ISK from the clones they're just going to get richer, better equipped and more likely to club together to prevent anyone breaking their monopoly. Congrats and well done for giving Dust immovable power blocs. Smart move. CCP Nullarbor wrote:It's looking very likely we will introduce corporation tax, just a question of when. Now this is something I have a problem with. Its now looking very likely we need a corporation Tax? It's only just looking likely?!!That suggests to me that at some point the need for corporation tax hadn't even occurred to you? Was that the same day it occurred to CCP that corps only needed two roles, didn't need corp mail, mailing lists or a wallet system that didn't have a transaction history?!! What PC is increasing doing in point of fact, is demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what is required by corps to run and fund their corps in the first place! All of which has a direct impact on being able to do PC at all. It's not that you've build a house with no foundations, it's the fact your expecting the second floor to hover in the air above where the ground floor should be.
I think you're reading too much into my words Kevall.
Of course it occurred to us, but clone stamping EVE is not something we are blindly doing and feature development is being put in priority order. We havn't had a need for corporation taxes so far but PC is a good reason for a corporation to build up the wallet balance so now it's "looking likely" as opposed to "do we need it yet". |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
843
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Posted - 2013.04.06 00:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:I'd be willing to accept that the timers don't change if the district can get clones generated on them though.
If you win an attack on a district and lets say you have 50 clones remaining at the end of the fight you will get 2 reinforce cycles in before the previous owner or anyone else can re-attack. So your district will end up with 210 or 250 clones depending on the SI when the attack happens. The district unlocks so you can make changes to the SI or reinforce timer 24 hours after you take it provided it isn't attacked.
Why are we doing this? For 2 reasons: - It covers up a couple of potential exploits - It encourages more fights because we know both the existing owner and the new owner are capable of fielding teams in that time. By ninja swapping the reinforce time after the district is taken it potentially denies a counter attack. This means you need to be careful with which districts you attack as it may lead to an ongoing assault in that time zone until you can hold the ground long enough to swap the time. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
844
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Posted - 2013.04.06 00:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
The owner of the district can change the reinforce at any time, provided the district is not locked. The change we are making is that after capturing a district either through the initial deployment or an attack, the district will be locked for the first 24 hours. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
845
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Posted - 2013.04.06 00:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Goric Rumis wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Yeah, this is where the small, medium, and large casinos issue is helpful. I'll be honest, I'm still not entirely sure where the disincentive comes in. Is it merely the clone loss from shipping clones over long distances? You also have to consider that the largest corps will want to hold some of the most remote planets (because that's their territory in EVE). The disincentive comes from distance losses, yes, but also from the lack of rewards. I've long postulated that Genesis may be the first region for PC. If that is the case, then there are some pockets in that region: The minipocket constellation of Nazdirer (1 Temperate in Vecamia) is 5 jumps from the Mih midpocket (5 Temperates total). Nazdirer's is also 6 jumps from the Ashela midpocket (4 Temperates) and the Ubar minipocket (2 Temperates). The Nazdirer pocket is 8 jumps from the nearest part of the Monalaz-Meli-EVE megapocket and 12 jumps from the Aven-Makh-Kihkounad megapocket. A Kaiju corp is not likely to want to hold Vecamia because it is really far from any other planets and those corps can make a lot more money by owning most (or all) of a megapocket. Furthermore, their holdings in the megapocket are easier to reinforce from clones elsewhere in the pocket. By contrast, Vecamia (the Nazdirer minipocket) can only effectively rely on that one planet for reinforcements. At best, only 55% of the clones sent from the nearest other pocket (Mih) would arrive. That means that corps would more likely have to buy clones (at five times their street value) to make up the difference. If you are a Shark, then only having a couple of districts on Vecamia VIII is awesome. If you are a Kaiju, then defending districts on Vecamia via clone packs is a waste of money. You could much more cost-effectively attack nearby systems than trying to project force halfway across the region. In addition, the Shark corps (and Minnows who want to be Sharks) will very quickly realize this and focus their efforts on the minipockets. As a result, the minipockets will be filled with battles. This means that districts belonging to distant corps are likely to be the preferred targets of Minnows and Sharks hoping to win a district by attrition. Since those districts are a net loss for Kaijus and Monsters, the big boys are likely to let those pockets alone.
Something we havn't mentioned yet is that our cost calculation skips high security systems provided they are along the shortest path between the districts. Having said that, I am neither confirming nor denying there will be high security systems in any paths, just explaining how it works |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
851
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Posted - 2013.04.06 14:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
So we don't derail this thread too much, I've created a discussion on corporation tax over here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67713
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
864
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Posted - 2013.04.07 02:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Something we havn't mentioned yet is that our cost calculation skips high security systems provided they are along the shortest path between the districts. Having said that, I am neither confirming nor denying there will be high security systems in any paths, just explaining how it works Please reconsider that 'jumping over hisec'. It feels unnecessary and reduces the feeling of location. It wouldn't be bad if there would be sort of islands of lowsec instead of everything connected. Just different. I feel that it would be nice to have clear borders etc.
There are plenty of pockets just using the gaps between temperate planets in lowsec. Creating an interesting landscape is important, this just fixes some extreme cases of that. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1169
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Posted - 2013.05.17 00:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
I posted a thread with a few discussion points about PC today:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78449&find=unread |
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