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Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 204	Posted - 2015.09.30 03:13:00 - [1] - Quote Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 950	Posted - 2015.09.30 03:23:00 - [2] - Quote Now that you mention it I have to say that I am a bit curious about the future of the Sniper Rifle. I would think working on balancing that weapon would be extremely difficult because it would be too easy to accidentally make it OP. I would like to hear some peoples views on the Sniper Rifle.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.09.30 03:40:00 - [3] - Quote Just out of curiosity, what are your concerns with sniper rifles? I've never had any real issues using them. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 04:01:00 - [4] - Quote I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 950	Posted - 2015.09.30 04:47:00 - [5] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Just out of curiosity, what are your concerns with sniper rifles? I've never had any real issues using them. Besides the major and difficult to fix issues that Breakin Stuff mentioned I have always felt that the Sniper Rifle should inflict 3 levels of damage: Level 1 Damage would be an instant kill and only obtained through a headshot. Level 2 Damage would be heavy damage inflicted and only obtained by shooting someone in the torso/abdomen region. Level 3 Damage would be minor damage more intended to scare/startle a person and is obtained when shooting someone in the arms or legs. I remember a long time ago in a match I noticed a redberry using a Blaster Installation and I just happened to have a Sniper Rifle equipped. When I zoomed in on the redberry the Blaster Installation pretty much blocked any shot I could take except for one. I noticed a little sliver of the redberries foot sticking out towards the bottom of the Installation. I took aim and fired one shot hitting the redberry in the foot and instantly killing him. I should not have been able to instantly kill a redberry by shooting them in the foot. I also remember another moment where I went to Snipe one of those Heavy Forge Gun Snipers. I put myself into perfect range, took aim and landed a beautiful headshot. The problem though is that the Heavy was so armored out that the headshot did not kill him; all it did was jack the Heavy up enough to force him to duck down to safety. I feel that pretty much all headshots should result in an instant kill regardless of the suit you are running. I also feel like the sway from a Sniper Rifle when you first ADS should stabilize quicker. I think it should be heavy sway when you first aim but stabilize completely after no more than a second. I also think it would be good to have a method to stabilize the sway without crouching. Maybe allow our mercs to hold their breath for 5 seconds to allow them to stabilize their Sniper Rifle while standing.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:14:00 - [6] - Quote The ability to tank up to resist OHK kills is something I feel should not be removed. Having sniper rifles simply able to instantly eliminate any suit on the field no matter what you fit it for is the kind of thing that will fly like a lead baloon with the vast majority of players. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 950	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:18:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to tank up to resist OHK kills is something I feel should not be removed. Having sniper rifles simply able to instantly eliminate any suit on the field no matter what you fit it for is the kind of thing that will fly like a lead baloon with the vast majority of players. Yea you're probably right about that one.
Leovarian L Lavitz TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS 1	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:23:00 - [8] - Quote Give another skill, sharp shooter , reduce scope sway an additional 5% per level Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto One V One Emperor
MrShooter01 Ustio Mercenary Squadron 1	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:38:00 - [9] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Give another skill, sharp shooter , reduce scope sway an additional 5% per level Why don't we just go completely nuts and make it 10%-20% per level I want to move around with a scoped in sniper rifle But have our movement speed while scoped reduced to that of a heavy charging a forge gun
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 950	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:51:00 - [10] - Quote I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle?

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:53:00 - [11] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Nope. Just bonuses that are directly applicable to light rail weapons in general (commando). WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.09.30 06:03:00 - [12] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 06:37:00 - [13] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest. never say never. there's a lot of room for sniper play to improve, but unfortunately we have a very poor sampling of what they can do because of the issues I stated above. And you are incorrect about commando bonus applying to all rail weapons. the skill was updated to read all LIGHT rail weapons. The rail bonus no longer (or more likely, never actually did) apply to sidearms. I was wrong about that one too. I had to go in and check it myself when it was pointed out to me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 950	Posted - 2015.09.30 07:01:00 - [14] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest. Obviously the quick description of the suit I threw out isn't balanced; I imagined it rather quickly so therefore we must make it balanced. One way to balance it would be to only allow that type of suit to be able to use Sniper Rifles that are not Tactical Sniper Rifles. Kind of like how a Sentinel is pretty much limited to an HMG or a Forge Gun this Sniper Suit can be limited to non-tactical Sniper Rifles and a sidearm.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.09.30 07:41:00 - [15] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest. Obviously the quick description of the suit I threw out isn't balanced; I imagined it rather quickly so therefore we must make it balanced. One way to balance it would be to only allow that type of suit to be able to use Sniper Rifles that are not Tactical Sniper Rifles. Kind of like how a Sentinel is pretty much limited to an HMG or a Forge Gun this Sniper Suit can be limited to non-tactical Sniper Rifles and a sidearm. The heavy isn't limited to the HMG and Forge gun. In the heavy's Heavy Weapon slot, you can equip anything from an SMG to a Rail Rifle. Sidearm Slots can equip all sidearms, Light Weapon slots can equip all light weapons and all sidearms and Heavy Weapon slots can equip all heavy weapons, light weapons AND sidearms. The sniper rifle is a light weapon and I don't really see CCP coding a whole new weapon class & suit specifically for sniper rifles when there are much easier and less probable-to-cause-bugs-game-wide means of fixing sniper rifles. If making new stuffs were possible, I can think of many things that completely top out the importance of a suit specifically for sniping. That said, at least you're pushing new ideas for the sniper class. New ways of approaching balance, no matter how impossible to do or unbalanced they may seem, gives others another way to look at the issue and possibly can spark an idea that's plausible to use. Got any others? Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.30 09:24:00 - [16] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? My thoughts on the current state is that it doesn't make much sense for how they progress and it needs to be changed, badly. Tactical has low damage, low range Charge has high damage, moderate range Vanilla has moderate damage, high range Then you have the progression from STD > ADV > PRO, which sees 10HP worth of damage difference per tier... and then the Thale's which comes in with a whopping 123 damage over the Proto. That doesn't make any sense and completely bewilders any sense of progression while throwing a pipe wrench in the whole spectrum because the Thales becomes the only one worth a damn. I understand that officer weapons are supposed to be powerful but when you have that much gain over Prototype weaponry it becomes no contest - you either use the Thale's or your simply not a sniper, it feels like. So, what I would do is this: a) Kill the scope sway when standing and give the Operation skill a different bonus. Using a sniper rifle is punishing enough without having to be completely immobile. b) Re-evaluate sniper rifle ranges to correlate with the design principle of damage < --- > range, with low damage having high range and low range having high damage (this will impact redline camping naturally for obvious reasons) c) Close the gap a bit between the power levels to make using them a viable option without having to resort to the Thales. Just my thoughts, so take it as a grain of salt. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
ID G4f XxAMBUSH FTWxX 46	Posted - 2015.09.30 09:43:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to tank up to resist OHK kills is something I feel should not be removed. Having sniper rifles simply able to instantly eliminate any suit on the field no matter what you fit it for is the kind of thing that will fly like a lead baloon with the vast majority of players. First off, i love sniping. It was my first role in this game and would proudly hold a point the whole map & get lots of hatemail. I respec'ed away for vehicles after too many nerf's and map redesign's that make sniper overwatch useful only on a few maps. that said, they don't need a special suit, the scout suit makes a great ewar sniper, commando is great for 1 shoting heavy's (most). i think it is important to note limb damage should never be lowered for any weapon because as soon as your dropsuit (not only a weapons platform but a lifesupport system as well) loses all armor your meaty parts, and air could be forcefully sucked into space. Or leathal gasses of that planet could leak in. There is no surviving a spacesuit having a catastrophic failure. I would like to see them buffed either directly with a slight range increase or by simply adding new & interesting high ground around the map for snipers to play with. Perhaps locations that take jump mods to reach, so scouts can counter play with them. But these days you are better off with a railrifle 85mil sp and counting ID's Escrow - trade safe Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
E-Rock Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 239	Posted - 2015.09.30 09:50:00 - [18] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? you and people like you are one of the many reasons that this game is not competitive anymore Wait, who's talking? µùÑµ£¼F¬PsñºS+êsñ½ -Founder of the CKC. 50Mil isk application fee -I do it for the laughs
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 204	Posted - 2015.09.30 12:53:00 - [19] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: My thoughts on the current state is that it doesn't make much sense for how they progress and it needs to be changed, badly. Tactical has low damage, low range Charge has high damage, moderate range Vanilla has moderate damage, high range Then you have the progression from STD > ADV > PRO, which sees 10HP worth of damage difference per tier... and then the Thale's which comes in with a whopping 123 damage over the Proto. That doesn't make any sense and completely bewilders any sense of progression while throwing a pipe wrench in the whole spectrum because the Thales becomes the only one worth a damn. I understand that officer weapons are supposed to be powerful but when you have that much gain over Prototype weaponry it becomes no contest - you either use the Thale's or your simply not a sniper, it feels like. So, what I would do is this: a) Kill the scope sway when standing and give the Operation skill a different bonus. Using a sniper rifle is punishing enough without having to be completely immobile. b) Re-evaluate sniper rifle ranges to correlate with the design principle of damage < --- > range, with low damage having high range and low range having high damage (this will impact redline camping naturally for obvious reasons) c) Close the gap a bit between the power levels to make using them a viable option without having to resort to the Thales. Just my thoughts, so take it as a grain of salt. a) Thinking it i a good idea in an fps on a console to limit players to only one thumbstick is wrong and over the top punishment. Being less mobile I do feel should be a trade off for the high (haha) alpha. I would push for no sway while ADS and crouched, not standing. b) This model works for other weapons but I don't believe this is the route we should take with the SR. The TAC for example is the go to weapon for on the map combat. The faster rate of fire is the only SR that almost gives you a chance if spotted under 100m. Even still it is out classed by all other light rifles due to the SR having a horrible TTK. We should perhaps adjust the rate of fire of all SR dramatically if we ever want to see more than a small handful of snipers on the map and actually being effective. This combined with c) would bring the SR back into a competitive state. c) Most of my earlier complaints was this so much. I would also like to see improved sights the community asked for, not what Rat decided looked cool and were forced onto us. A simple vertical and horizontal line crossing in the middle would push to making the head shot multiplier an an attainable goal on a more regular basis especially against moving targets. I know Dust strives to stand out and be different, but there is a reason virtually all fps SR sights are like that. It helps the player track targets easily, instead of fighting against the player. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 2	Posted - 2015.09.30 13:22:00 - [20] - Quote I'd say leave them be. Wasting time on Siper Rifles.. is nothig more than wasting time. Better focus on balancing (as they do now) important stuff that will affect much larger group. Modern society is lacking in empathy

Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 102	Posted - 2015.09.30 13:58:00 - [21] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Give another skill, sharp shooter , reduce scope sway an additional 5% per level Why don't we just go completely nuts and make it 10%-20% per level I want to move around with a scoped in sniper rifle But have our movement speed while scoped reduced to that of a heavy charging a forge gun The last thing this game needs are a bunch of wannabe qwikscope artists...
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 102	Posted - 2015.09.30 14:10:00 - [22] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: I'd say leave them be. Wasting time on Sniper Rifles.. is nothing more than wasting time. Better focus on balancing (as they do now) important stuff that will affect much larger group. +1... As long as I'm not lagging too hard, snipers are fine...I could do with some better crosshairs though, especially on the tactical...
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 102	Posted - 2015.09.30 14:20:00 - [23] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: The TAC for example is the go to weapon for on the map combat. The faster rate of fire is the only SR that almost gives you a chance if spotted under 100m. Even still it is out classed by all other light rifles due to the SR having a horrible TTK. We should perhaps adjust the rate of fire of all SR dramatically if we ever want to see more than a small handful of snipers on the map and actually being effective. If you're spotted under 100m, you're better off just switching to a sidearm...Personally, I only use the Tactical on a Galmando because it allows me to pull it out when needed, move around the map as the game flow changes, and I always have a trusty AR so I can charge into objectives or fall back when I want... I could go with a slight ROF improvement (8-10% at the most)...But remember, sniping is supposed to be more about accuracy than spamming the whole mag...
Vulpes Dolosus Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.09.30 14:26:00 - [24] - Quote As far as I'm concerned, the only change to snipers needs to be more prominent sound, bullet smoke, and damage direction indicators. I honestly can't support any sniper buff so long as the redline provides virtual immunity from the rest of the battle field. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.09.30 14:51:00 - [25] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I honestly can't support any sniper buff so long as the redline provides virtual immunity from the rest of the battle field. That virtual immunity doesn't stop those who are stomping from crossing the redline to pad their stats and acquire extra kills while already redlining a foe , does it ? I'm starting to get really tired of people using the redline as an excuse for sniper issues but it's not a problem crossing to pad stats while redlining the opposition . I have killed snipers in the redline while playing scout , hell .. I would take a DS and a fat suit and do it too , also I've been killed by scouts and such in my own redline while sniping so I just don't see the redline as a problem because people cross it on a daily and they seem not to have any issue doing so . If a sniper is 2 or 3 hundred meters inside the redline , like I've seem some attest to in the forums , there is no possible way that their making much of an impact on the field given the range of most sniper rifles . Part of the problem is the bias against snipers another problem is the limited use of the weapon it's self , while being crouched or the sway it's self that the bonus was " suppose " to limit . Can't fix this problem when most of the community has a bias against the role in the first place , it's like trying to ask the community about HAV use , most don't know what their talking about because of lack of knowledge in said role and the bias nature that they have to the role it's self and the rest just feel slighted and that whatever they say just wont have much of an impact because they are ignored . If the redline was much of a problem , there wouldn't be many kills made behind it but there is on a daily threw / during stomps . Just seem like another case of people not taking the threat seriously like so called roof top camping ( when they could just grab a DS and handle the threat ) and they would rather change the mechanics to reflect their own laziness and reluctance to address such threats . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 208	Posted - 2015.10.01 16:09:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. Way to stay close minded. If hit detection is that poor than adding aim assist, reducing range, and buffing damage or rate of fire seems like a way it can be hotfixed. p.s. are you an IWS alt? When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.01 17:56:00 - [27] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. Way to stay close minded. If hit detection is that poor than adding aim assist, reducing range, and buffing damage or rate of fire seems like a way it can be hotfixed. p.s. are you an IWS alt? Oh. Right. Am i supposed to rise to that bait or something? slow clap WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 19:10:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. My personal least favorite part about sniping is that I want to take it out of the redline, and I do, but then when Im out there Im stupendously vulnerable when I zoom in. Combat with a sniper rifle goes like this: See a target of opportunity. Am I in a good spot that isnt insanely exposed? Ok. Crouch. Zoom in. Sway Sway Sway aaaand at this point if anyone has seen me I will be either killed or forced to move, and any player worth being killed has most likely left the area and I cant get a shot on him anymore. OR Go to a place where I know I will be able to snipe an enemy position. Crouch. Zoom in. Sway Sway Sway. Proceed to camp that one spot until someone gets tired of getting sniped and they come and shotgun me. This is **** gameplay, and combined with the loud noise firing your rifle makes leaves you stupidly vulnerable while sniping, which in turn heavily reinforces choosing positions within the redline where you have a deterrent to people walking up next to you and killing you. Non-redline sniping AT BEST is a semi mobile shuffling between decent common camping areas where you have a combination of lines of sights on common enemy positions and enough cover to make sitting still not suicidal. Personally I'd like to see sway removed entirely or almost entirely so that there wasn't a 5 second ritual to perform honoring the sway gods before I have a chance at an accurate shot.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.01 19:50:00 - [29] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? My thoughts on the current state is that it doesn't make much sense for how they progress and it needs to be changed, badly. Tactical has low damage, low range Charge has high damage, moderate range Vanilla has moderate damage, high range Then you have the progression from STD > ADV > PRO, which sees 10HP worth of damage difference per tier... and then the Thale's which comes in with a whopping 123 damage over the Proto. That doesn't make any sense and completely bewilders any sense of progression while throwing a pipe wrench in the whole spectrum because the Thales becomes the only one worth a damn. I understand that officer weapons are supposed to be powerful but when you have that much gain over Prototype weaponry it becomes no contest - you either use the Thale's or your simply not a sniper, it feels like. So, what I would do is this: a) Kill the scope sway when standing and give the Operation skill a different bonus. Using a sniper rifle is punishing enough without having to be completely immobile. b) Re-evaluate sniper rifle ranges to correlate with the design principle of damage < --- > range, with low damage having high range and low range having high damage (this will impact redline camping naturally for obvious reasons) c) Close the gap a bit between the power levels to make using them a viable option without having to resort to the Thales. Just my thoughts, so take it as a grain of salt. What do you mean with C? Make the Thale's 10 more damage than a proto? Or did you meant giving actual signs of progression of tiers by giving 50 of SP damage increases? *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Viktor Skirov Algintal Core Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2015.10.01 22:10:00 - [30] - Quote I dunno.. But, how would you felt if a little.. projectile travel mechanic was added? I'm not the best sniper, and will never be, but when I try it sometimes I wish I could just open fire in the direction my target goes rather than keeping the sights on the head, which isn't very helpful when... well, it's a fast moving scout. I kinda like Battlefield 3's sniping because of that. Of course, it's just a silly idea, ignore it if you please. Officially a ghost.... Spoooooooooky

Sergeant Sazu Mantodea MC 800	Posted - 2015.10.02 01:17:00 - [31] - Quote I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. The Sniper Rifle is the only hitscan weapon in the game that doesn't have damage fall-off. This needs to be implemented to make firing from redline to mid-map nearly useless while keeping it lethal just outside of the Laser Rifle's effective range. Other thoughts: -Having the sway end the way it normally does while standing would also help bring people into the fight. Being an on-the-go sniper would become much easier. I was also thinking that crouching could end the sway twice as fast, so it would be a good option for when your target isn't aware of you. -I'd appreciate a customizable reticule next patch. Just something in the settings, a list to pick from or whatever. (P.S. We need crosshairs dangit) I have more ideas, but these are the ones I consider the most important. [76.1m SP] "I bet Sazu's great in an argument, since he makes so many points." -CeeJ Mantis -Logibro / Minmando-
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 208	Posted - 2015.10.02 03:50:00 - [32] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh. Right. Am i supposed to rise to that bait or something? slow clap I was referring to the fact that I did ask for CPM input, and asked a legitimate question to the CPM or CCP and was met with a CPM derailing my original question. This reminded me of IWS in that matter and was me nicely reminding you to not follow in those foot steps please. I do appreciate your tag dropping in but I'd appreciate that you stay on topic. My question was a simple straight forward question that you answered honestly which I appreciate. Unfortunately you followed up with: Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to tank up to resist OHK kills is something I feel should not be removed. Having sniper rifles simply able to instantly eliminate any suit on the field no matter what you fit it for is the kind of thing that will fly like a lead baloon with the vast majority of players. I could rip this statement to shreds on basis that the forge, plc, and core grenades already fall into what you described. All are easily sp wise to obtain and spam. At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Therefore, my personal dealings of IWS were brought up. I was not trying to bate you. I was simply trying to help you along so that you did not fall into his footsteps. In the future as a CPM member, I hope you refrain from giving bluntly bad input about something you are bias against and stick to subjects that you comprehend. On a side note I did go off topic when I discussed what I saw as minor flaws with Aeon Amadi statement. Aeon was at least being reasonable and answered the questions I had at least,. So neither one of us is (you or myself) has been biased. so instead I will ask once again revert to my original statement to get this thread back on track: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? In the end this is all I want to know. Not why people hate the sniper rifle, or why people think it sucks. It is why I have choose to not engage in most the disinformation from both sides posted here. I do regret calling you out Breaking, and I will refrain from doing so in the future, but I do want to get back on topic. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 208	Posted - 2015.10.02 03:53:00 - [33] - Quote This is not a topic about buffs or nerfs to sniping or sniper rifles. It is about a few simple questions as in the original post: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 03:55:00 - [34] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. Here, allow me: Quote: Besides the major and difficult to fix issues that Breakin Stuff mentioned I have always felt that the Sniper Rifle should inflict 3 levels of damage: Level 1 Damage would be an instant kill and only obtained through a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 208	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:03:00 - [35] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. Asked nicely. Stay on topic community leader. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:14:00 - [36] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. Asked nicely. Stay on topic community leader. Quit trying to dictate my role in the conversation. I'm not horribly known for cooperative spirit when people attempt to "put me in my place." WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 208	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:30:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. Asked nicely. Stay on topic community leader. Quit trying to dictate my role in the conversation. I'm not horribly known for cooperative spirit when people attempt to "put me in my place." I would rather handlepersonnel "Beef" be placed outside of Dust and Dust forums. If you have any issues and feel the same , were could I reach you ? When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 199	Posted - 2015.10.02 06:44:00 - [38] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest. It only has the damage bonus to LIGHT rail weaponry. Bolt pistols and Magsecs are sidearms, the commando damage bonus doesn't apply to them. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion. I bring the light.
ID G4f XxAMBUSH FTWxX 50	Posted - 2015.10.02 12:38:00 - [39] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. Asked nicely. Stay on topic community leader. Quit trying to dictate my role in the conversation. I'm not horribly known for cooperative spirit when people attempt to "put me in my place." I would rather handlepersonnel "Beef" be placed outside of Dust and Dust forums. If you have any issues and feel the same , were could I reach you ? Creepy... 85mil sp and counting ID's Escrow - trade safe Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 13:09:00 - [40] - Quote Personally I think a body shot from a sniper rifle should leave most medium suits on low armour. Headshots should OHK. Currently they don't do enough damage. Most assault suits have between 500 and 900 hp. Even a triple damage modded, proto sniper rifle only does 266 damage to shields. That's hardly enough to leave enemies in low armour, and not even enough to kill in two hits in many cases. How about upping the base damage at proto from 250 to 350? Is this crazy? A Thales is currently 373. I remember beta when many got one shotted by snipers. Or at least two shotted. It was tough, but people learned to deal with it. They learned that you can't run across open ground safely. More vehicles were used. I don't snipe myself, never really have. People do do it, and it can be effective. So it might be fine. Personally I rarely feel a sniper has impacted the match though.

Avallo Kantor 893	Posted - 2015.10.02 18:51:00 - [41] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I think a body shot from a sniper rifle should leave most medium suits on low armour. Headshots should OHK. Currently they don't do enough damage. Most assault suits have between 500 and 900 hp. Even a triple damage modded, proto sniper rifle only does 266 damage to shields. That's hardly enough to leave enemies in low armour, and not even enough to kill in two hits in many cases. How about upping the base damage at proto from 250 to 350? Is this crazy? A Thales is currently 373. I remember beta when many got one shotted by snipers. Or at least two shotted. It was tough, but people learned to deal with it. They learned that you can't run across open ground safely. More vehicles were used. I don't snipe myself, never really have. People do do it, and it can be effective. So it might be fine. Personally I rarely feel a sniper has impacted the match though. I think the progression should be a bit more reliable at all levels. Instead of having a 10 damage increase per tier, it should be 25, and start damage at 275 at basic level. That way at proto it is 350 with the officer only have a 23 increase (which still leaves it comfortably best in class over everything else) "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 472	Posted - 2015.10.02 19:13:00 - [42] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I think a body shot from a sniper rifle should leave most medium suits on low armour. Headshots should OHK. Currently they don't do enough damage. Most assault suits have between 500 and 900 hp. Even a triple damage modded, proto sniper rifle only does 266 damage to shields. That's hardly enough to leave enemies in low armour, and not even enough to kill in two hits in many cases. How about upping the base damage at proto from 250 to 350? Is this crazy? A Thales is currently 373. I remember beta when many got one shotted by snipers. Or at least two shotted. It was tough, but people learned to deal with it. They learned that you can't run across open ground safely. More vehicles were used. I don't snipe myself, never really have. People do do it, and it can be effective. So it might be fine. Personally I rarely feel a sniper has impacted the match though. I think the progression should be a bit more reliable at all levels. Instead of having a 10 damage increase per tier, it should be 25, and start damage at 275 at basic level. That way at proto it is 350 with the officer only have a 23 increase (which still leaves it comfortably best in class over everything else) should be 5% per tier...like all the other anti-infantry weapons Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 19:49:00 - [43] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: should be 5% per tier...like all the other anti-infantry weapons this is how every other weapon in the game is scaled, yes. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 472	Posted - 2015.10.02 19:55:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: should be 5% per tier...like all the other anti-infantry weapons this is how every other weapon in the game is scaled, yes. Other than AV weapons...I believe AV weapons are 10% per tier Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
five times Liverpool F.C. 204	Posted - 2015.10.02 20:31:00 - [45] - Quote I think snipers should be untouched, they are ok If anything, the ones that complain are the snipers that want more range from the he recline, or counter snipers who want more range in to the recline. Only solution is a new variant Rifle, maybe 600m range, 50 base damage and 1500 Headshot, so skilled shots get kills
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.10.02 20:47:00 - [46] - Quote I think Aeon's notion of damage/distance is the best suggestion I have heard so far. It makes sense, is reasonable, and sounds fairly easy to implement. I also don't see any reason why scope should sway when you move while scoped. I can understand initial sway while scoping to prevent quick scopes, but it kills sniping to not be able to make minor adjustments. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 501	Posted - 2015.10.02 21:30:00 - [47] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: should be 5% per tier...like all the other anti-infantry weapons this is how every other weapon in the game is scaled, yes. mm. true but does any other anti infantry weapon have the same issues? I have been a fairly decent sniper on this game for a little while now and during my time on here I've noticed a few of the issues with them. breakin stuff actually gave one of the more honest answers i've seen to do with sniping in dust when he mentions: Quote: crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. and if you read all of the posts then you'll have seen the exact ones he means, the main ones being hit detection and sway. in my humble opinion the only ways to balance sniping in dust would have to be based around the skill tree. not because they would fix the issues but because they would allow serious snipers to circumvent those issues whilst also ensuring that we don't suddenly flood dust with a ton of new snipers chasing fotm. I personally would love to be able to upgrade my sniper ability further and would have no qualms about it taking most of my sp. because I don't generally want to be skilling in to much else (and for everybody that doesn't know me most of my corpmates would be happy about me doing that too.) a few thoughts on what they could do: .the ammo skill should be bullets per level not %. i.e a 33.33% per level would still only give a charge rifle a single extra shot per level, but would start to cause issues on a thales. .A new skill that allows a sniper to skill into loss of scope sway - not drastically important on the vanilla or charge variants but why on earth the tactical even has any I still don't understand. .a skill that opens the ability to mark targets for your squad? the charge rifle should be given the ability to fire at any time in the same manner as the symbs fork. other things: some of the damages don't seem right. .why is a symbs fork rifle only two points away from a thales when it requires a charge up and has less range? .why are the proto type rifles so far behind the officer types? (though I suspect this has a lot to do with them being readily available) .if a tactical rifle is dusts approach to combat snipers why does it sway so much and why does it require me to crouch - the only way to ohk with it is with a headshot so why cant i use it defensively if i need to? .much more movement, particularly with the tactical variants if players don't want snipers to camp then they will have to accept quick/no scope kills. this was kind of in the above but it will go a long way towards reducing redline activity for those of you that still think its a problem. (How can players still expect snipers to be running around "just outside of the combat rifle range" when even a tactical sniper has to be immobile. this has been an issue for a long time, and to any player who thinks that a sniper cant be killed in certain positions anyway, you are being lazy. sorry but its true.) ( all snipers are squishy.) this also requires some form of alternate way of using a sniper rifle as they have no close combat capability even to the extent they simply cannot be aimed at a player that is too close never mind the appalling fire rate and clip sizes or just the acceptance that they are supposed to be long range weapons. (until ccp acknowledge that fact the players certainly wont) There are things I've missed here so i may be posting again. however more to the initial thread, cpm, would you be able to tell us are sniper rifle fixes something on the upcoming agenda please?
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 23:12:00 - [48] - Quote five times wrote: I think snipers should be untouched, they are ok If anything, the ones that complain are the snipers that want more range from the he recline, or counter snipers who want more range in to the recline. Only solution is a new variant Rifle, maybe 600m range, 50 base damage and 1500 Headshot, so skilled shots get kills Why do you say this when earlier in this very thread I complained about sway and said nothing at all about it helping to kill people either from or into the redline? And your suggested solution is absolutely ridiculous and you are asking for exactly what you just complained about people wanting. I wish there was a dislike button. Stop posting if you arent going to bother thinking about what you are saying.
fragmentedhackslash Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 392	Posted - 2015.10.03 01:58:00 - [49] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Now that you mention it I have to say that I am a bit curious about the future of the Sniper Rifle. I would think working on balancing that weapon would be extremely difficult because it would be too easy to accidentally make it OP. I would like to hear some peoples views on the Sniper Rifle. I have went on record many, many a time regarding this. a. TANK514 = Snipers514 The last major disruption to snipers was TANK514, which resulted in a plethora of screams on the forum here about snipers are OP, tanks are OP. Which was incorrect. Snipers were just being used more because tanks were OP. Tanks514 results in all the assaults and AV guys say "Flux this" and go straight to the Sniper Rifle, currently with no true Proto Tank tier as we have previously had, let alone the removal LogiLAV and LogiDS shakes fist, AV is rampant, supply depot switching stops anti infantry support tanking etc The fact it's still really expensive to check the map and suddenly see your proto tank falling through the map fix this So the dedicated marksman and dedicated sniper roles have been relinquished as it's actually feasible to be on the ground, in the open, and run straight past a tank, and more than likely get away with it because infantry doesn't know how to support a tank, and tanks don't know how to support infantry, for many reasons, AV and zero true proto tank tiers being two of these reasons. Point A. has been enforced by the disintegration of sniper rifle range tables. This was pushed forward by Kane Spero some time ago. shakes fist b. Sniper rifle range table. I relate all DUST514 weapon range tables to real world simply by the multiplication of 4, same as run speeds etc, you will get a shock about this, yes we use exoskel suits for a reason. The equivalent of a substance is the amount of the substance multiplied by its valence. For example. To get a real world equivalent range of the shotgun, you times the range table @25m x 4 equalling 100m. This is just stupid wrong. For example. To get a real world equivalent range of the sniper rifle, you times the range table @450 x 4 equalling 1800m. This is just stupid wrong. My suggestion, is to return many things to DUST514, one of these being the 800m range table of the sniper rifle, I used to shoot over the horizon ranges, and it took me a very, very long time to get proficient at this, and there were only a few that were. So the 3200m proto sniper rifle range table is NOT OP. That is the correct range for a futuristic sniper rifle, operational at over the horizon ranges. This is where I, and a select few, used to operate. Addressing point B. This is where, and the only place, I currently believe that the sniper rifle needs to be changed in its data. Among other points, the sniper rifle range table should be looked at, and returned, no other changes necessary, except the introduction of the Minmatar Precision Rifle, bipedal, explosive penetrating rounds and extreme high accuracy at extream range, the MPR also previously discussed in a past post of mine, with a model, rounds, damage and reload sequences all described in my MPR whitepaper. This is my opinion based on extensive Public and PC operational knowledge of both the dedicated marksman and over the horizon sniper roles. //slash [49FYD FRAG] INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 540	Posted - 2015.10.03 16:45:00 - [50] - Quote sniper range should be similar to large rail turret range.. im all for at least 600m on both...

Summa Militum Art.of.Death 998	Posted - 2015.10.03 16:59:00 - [51] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: sniper range should be similar to large rail turret range.. im all for at least 600m on both... My friend Joey, who pretty much only plays Eve now, stopped playing Dust514 because of a reduction in the range of Sniper Rifles. Apparently, before I started playing this game I guess, the range of Sniper Rifles was much greater than it is now.
CommanderBolt Dead Man's Game 4	Posted - 2015.10.03 19:15:00 - [52] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. My personal least favorite part about sniping is that I want to take it out of the redline, and I do, but then when Im out there Im stupendously vulnerable when I zoom in. Combat with a sniper rifle goes like this: See a target of opportunity. Am I in a good spot that isnt insanely exposed? Ok. Crouch. Zoom in. Sway Sway Sway aaaand at this point if anyone has seen me I will be either killed or forced to move, and any player worth being killed has most likely left the area and I cant get a shot on him anymore. OR Go to a place where I know I will be able to snipe an enemy position. Crouch. Zoom in. Sway Sway Sway. Proceed to camp that one spot until someone gets tired of getting sniped and they come and shotgun me. This is **** gameplay, and combined with the loud noise firing your rifle makes leaves you stupidly vulnerable while sniping, which in turn heavily reinforces choosing positions within the redline where you have a deterrent to people walking up next to you and killing you. Non-redline sniping AT BEST is a semi mobile shuffling between decent common camping areas where you have a combination of lines of sights on common enemy positions and enough cover to make sitting still not suicidal. Personally I'd like to see sway removed entirely or almost entirely so that there wasn't a 5 second ritual to perform honoring the sway gods before I have a chance at an accurate shot. This is exactly my experience from sniping and exactly my experience from being sniped. +1 This is the turning point, the rising of the tide. No fear inside
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 258	Posted - 2015.10.03 19:46:00 - [53] - Quote Well apparently they work fine from the number of people using them. EVERY game yesterday there were multiple people starting off as redline snipers. Its a low risk BS tactic that really has no place in the game for a reason. If you could not hide in the red line and require counter sniping as the lone answer to doing it then it would be a little better. It is a completely unsatisfying game experience (remember this is a game) to have multiple suits knocked off or start every encounter wounded by some ZERO skill scrub who thinks sitting in the redline is playing a FPS. Sniping is relatively easy compared to actually participating in the mass combat. It is also much less risky. The Thales obliterates 650 hp suits in a single body shot, and even if it does not kill the target he will die in the next encounter with an enemy because be has less than half his hps. Some of you kids need to remember that games are supposed to be fun for everyone playing, and sniping is only fun for one person. That's why you see it nerfed not enhanced. OHKs ruin the FPS feel, and if everyone can OHK or safely 2 shot every suit in the game from the redline that's all the game will become. Sniper rifles are already great. The fact you can one hit everything below proto with a poorly placed body shot from a Thales or two shots form a Tactical is already OP. I can't melt an AM Assault with an AAR from 400 meters while he can't return fire. So why should anyone be able to hide in safety and kill with impunity? This game is about risk and reward, and right now the sniper rifle is already a lot less risk than the reward you get. I am sorry some of you have a hardon for scrub tactics where there is little to no counter play. This is the same myopic "mommy I want to kill but not be killed" attitude you see from tankers and ADS pilots. If you want to pad your K/D you have to take a risk. It is a FPS not a sniper simulator. Much like it is not a Tank Commander Sim. I see lots of whining to make these things kill easier and safer, but no ideas to actually balance them. How about high damage but no ability to fire from the redline...I'm guessing the number of snipers will drop fast. Like I said, yesterday there were snipers killing people in the first 3 minutes of the game on every open map. Nothing like starting a game and getting OHKed before you even see the first enemy right... Come on grow some balls and realize anyone with any sense can read these threads as what they really are. QQ I can't kill with one shot from the luxury of my MCC. If you don't like the way sniper rifles are now, just pick up another gun and actually try to take a point.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 258	Posted - 2015.10.03 20:04:00 - [54] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: [quote=Summa Militum] This is just stupid wrong. My suggestion, is to return many things to DUST514, one of these being the 800m range table of the sniper rifle, I used to shoot over the horizon ranges, and it took me a very, very long time to get proficient at this, and there were only a few that were. So the 3200m proto sniper rifle range table is NOT OP. That is the correct range for a futuristic sniper rifle, operational at over the horizon ranges. This is where I, and a select few, used to operate. //slash No modern rifle in use by any military fires 3200 meters.. Not even half that for Marine/Army issue. So that's a far stretch for the future considering at 1.6 miles the curve of the earth is hiding the target on flat ground. Even in the future 3200 meters is a LONG way to fire a round and expect it to land with any interference wind/humidity/barometric pressure/ turning of the planet from a hand held device. The amount of velocity needed for that would require a huge amount of energy. Not sure that would be in line with the tech level of other guns in the game. If you are talking about it being futuristic, it cant be more advanced than say the AR. A gun landing that round would be the only gun you ever needed and in truth with that velocity would shred tanks as easy as people. So the current SR ranges seem already out of line with the other nonsniper weapons. They do much more damage over a much greater distance, and increasing that range just skews those numbers more.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 263	Posted - 2015.10.03 20:43:00 - [55] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Doc DDD wrote: sniper range should be similar to large rail turret range.. im all for at least 600m on both... My friend Joey, who pretty much only plays Eve now, stopped playing Dust514 because of a reduction in the range of Sniper Rifles. Apparently, before I started playing this game I guess, the range of Sniper Rifles was much greater than it is now. The SR had the range of 600 meter's before the nerf, when the game had the sharpshooter skill for all weapon's which at base skill, gave 25% increase to range and sharpshooter proficiency gave 15%, which gave the Sniper Rifle 240+ range or a maximum of 840 meters. Something as a sniper, I miss a lot, especially back before they added walls to objectives, snipers could keep objectives from being hacked and be useful to the team, more than be the "kill anything or kill nothing at all" sniper type. If they don't change the SR range's back, at least reintroduce sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency. And to help snipers remove the walls of null cannon's so that we can get into position, and even fight for position's with enemy sniper's in the mountains on certain maps. (In example, the map on domination with the mushroom building, and the null cannon in the courtyard) It would make for such a more interesting game if more forces could fluctuate and influence the flow of the battlefield, more so than a mario scrub with an MD and some RE's. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 258	Posted - 2015.10.03 20:50:00 - [56] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Doc DDD wrote: sniper range should be similar to large rail turret range.. im all for at least 600m on both... My friend Joey, who pretty much only plays Eve now, stopped playing Dust514 because of a reduction in the range of Sniper Rifles. Apparently, before I started playing this game I guess, the range of Sniper Rifles was much greater than it is now. The SR had the range of 600 meter's before the nerf, when the game had the sharpshooter skill for all weapon's which at base skill, gave 25% increase to range and sharpshooter proficiency gave 15%, which gave the Sniper Rifle 240+ range or a maximum of 840 meters. Something as a sniper, I miss a lot, especially back before they added walls to objectives, snipers could keep objectives from being hacked and be useful to the team, more than be the "kill anything or kill nothing at all" sniper type. If they don't change the SR range's back, at least reintroduce sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency. And to help snipers remove the walls of null cannon's so that we can get into position, and even fight for position's with enemy sniper's in the mountains on certain maps. (In example, the map on domination with the mushroom building, and the null cannon in the courtyard) It would make for such a more interesting game if more forces could fluctuate and influence the flow of the battlefield, more so than a mario scrub with an MD and some RE's. So who ever first hacks an objective keeps it all game??? That's what the ability to snipe a hacker means. So no put up more walls so that the game can be played. Not speed hacks to start and snipe camping until the game ends. That does not even sound fun...why would you want that? The Mario scrubs are an issue on their own. Maybe we should just put them and snipers in a bag and them fight it out...may the best scrub win.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 263	Posted - 2015.10.03 20:54:00 - [57] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: [quote=Summa Militum] This is just stupid wrong. My suggestion, is to return many things to DUST514, one of these being the 800m range table of the sniper rifle, I used to shoot over the horizon ranges, and it took me a very, very long time to get proficient at this, and there were only a few that were. So the 3200m proto sniper rifle range table is NOT OP. That is the correct range for a futuristic sniper rifle, operational at over the horizon ranges. This is where I, and a select few, used to operate. //slash No modern rifle in use by any military fires 3200 meters.. Not even half that for Marine/Army issue. So that's a far stretch for the future considering at 1.6 miles the curve of the earth is hiding the target on flat ground. Even in the future 3200 meters is a LONG way to fire a round and expect it to land with any interference wind/humidity/barometric pressure/ turning of the planet from a hand held device. The amount of velocity needed for that would require a huge amount of energy. Not sure that would be in line with the tech level of other guns in the game. If you are talking about it being futuristic, it cant be more advanced than say the AR. A gun landing that round would be the only gun you ever needed and in truth with that velocity would shred tanks as easy as people. So the current SR ranges seem already out of line with the other nonsniper weapons. They do much more damage over a much greater distance, and increasing that range just skews those numbers more. Thing about that is, does an SMG reach out 1000 meters? No they, with the right rifling and bore, can reach upto 150meters, while most rifles can hit 300 and greater, a sniper rifle is effective upto generally 450, but can and has been pretty capable of hitting 1000 meters and greater. However you'll never see anyone actually fire an SMG from 150 meters away, in most cases 30-50 meters and most fire fight engagements are generally within a 100-200 meter range with an assault rifle, but, in most cases, a marksman generally stays at a range of 200-300 meters, or beyond. (These statistics are taken from many other FPS' all of which, lack the SP system that DUST has, making it the only REAL difference from this game and others, bare in mind I do not have any military knowledge or training, and everything here is purely based on military simulation FPS'). When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 263	Posted - 2015.10.03 21:18:00 - [58] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Doc DDD wrote: sniper range should be similar to large rail turret range.. im all for at least 600m on both... My friend Joey, who pretty much only plays Eve now, stopped playing Dust514 because of a reduction in the range of Sniper Rifles. Apparently, before I started playing this game I guess, the range of Sniper Rifles was much greater than it is now. The SR had the range of 600 meter's before the nerf, when the game had the sharpshooter skill for all weapon's which at base skill, gave 25% increase to range and sharpshooter proficiency gave 15%, which gave the Sniper Rifle 240+ range or a maximum of 840 meters. Something as a sniper, I miss a lot, especially back before they added walls to objectives, snipers could keep objectives from being hacked and be useful to the team, more than be the "kill anything or kill nothing at all" sniper type. If they don't change the SR range's back, at least reintroduce sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency. And to help snipers remove the walls of null cannon's so that we can get into position, and even fight for position's with enemy sniper's in the mountains on certain maps. (In example, the map on domination with the mushroom building, and the null cannon in the courtyard) It would make for such a more interesting game if more forces could fluctuate and influence the flow of the battlefield, more so than a mario scrub with an MD and some RE's. So who ever first hacks an objective keeps it all game??? That's what the ability to snipe a hacker means. So no put up more walls so that the game can be played. Not speed hacks to start and snipe camping until the game ends. That does not even sound fun...why would you want that? The Mario scrubs are an issue on their own. Maybe we should just put them and snipers in a bag and them fight it out...may the best scrub win. You seem to completely missed my example, that sniper(s) would be fighting over position, and seem to believe that your team wouldn't have a counter sniper(s) or an ADS, or someone to go out to hunt the individual(s), It's not meant to be fun for you, the mud runner's, it's meant to add more interesting gameplay for sniper's, you must also understand that not everyone can just walk in with an Amarr AK.0 or Gallente GK.0, right? And in regard's to my last post, the point was, even if you use a weapon that has immense range, most people aren't going to try and waste their ammo to waste a guy that they could potentially miss and would be more comfortable shooting at much closer ranges, where they have experience shooting at. Case in point, I can kill player's with a BK42 ACR at a range of 70-80 meter's, feathering the weapon, but most other player's shoot at ranges of 30-40 meter's, which if they feel comfortable shooting at that range, all the more power to them. Even the AR can snag a kill at 70 meter's, provided they have low armor, or rather 250 or less armor and no cover. Fact is, many gun's have the range, most player's and people shoot at shorter range's. (Another example and an excellent one at that, is the ARR which has close to the same range as the RR, and once again, most players don't shoot at the medium distance range, but prefer to get closer to the enemy, for better sight on enemy acquisition). So like in most video game's, most weapon range's are pretty much utility, their there, but most people choose not to use it, mostly because the gun-games meta is purely centered around being in close, which makes excellent gun-game for supporting classes, such as Sniper, Mortar/Support, and Tank. Fact is, there's just too much preventing a sniper from doing his/her job in this game and a mortar/support or tanker will be able to function equally on the battlefield, would be nice if we could tag player's on the mini-map with a sniper rifle and get recon/scan assist's, like having your target in your sights for more than 2 second's and he/she automatically becomes tagged and seen by the rest of the team. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 259	Posted - 2015.10.03 22:02:00 - [59] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Doc DDD wrote: sniper range should be similar to large rail turret range.. im all for at least 600m on both... My friend Joey, who pretty much only plays Eve now, stopped playing Dust514 because of a reduction in the range of Sniper Rifles. Apparently, before I started playing this game I guess, the range of Sniper Rifles was much greater than it is now. The SR had the range of 600 meter's before the nerf, when the game had the sharpshooter skill for all weapon's which at base skill, gave 25% increase to range and sharpshooter proficiency gave 15%, which gave the Sniper Rifle 240+ range or a maximum of 840 meters. Something as a sniper, I miss a lot, especially back before they added walls to objectives, snipers could keep objectives from being hacked and be useful to the team, more than be the "kill anything or kill nothing at all" sniper type. If they don't change the SR range's back, at least reintroduce sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency. And to help snipers remove the walls of null cannon's so that we can get into position, and even fight for position's with enemy sniper's in the mountains on certain maps. (In example, the map on domination with the mushroom building, and the null cannon in the courtyard) It would make for such a more interesting game if more forces could fluctuate and influence the flow of the battlefield, more so than a mario scrub with an MD and some RE's. So who ever first hacks an objective keeps it all game??? That's what the ability to snipe a hacker means. So no put up more walls so that the game can be played. Not speed hacks to start and snipe camping until the game ends. That does not even sound fun...why would you want that? The Mario scrubs are an issue on their own. Maybe we should just put them and snipers in a bag and them fight it out...may the best scrub win. You seem to completely missed my example, that sniper(s) would be fighting over position, and seem to believe that your team wouldn't have a counter sniper(s) or an ADS, or someone to go out to hunt the individual(s), It's not meant to be fun for you, the mud runner's, it's meant to add more interesting gameplay for sniper's, you must also understand that not everyone can just walk in with an Amarr AK.0 or Gallente GK.0, right? And in regard's to my last post, the point was, even if you use a weapon that has immense range, most people aren't going to try and waste their ammo to waste a guy that they could potentially miss and would be more comfortable shooting at much closer ranges, where they have experience shooting at. Case in point, I can kill player's with a BK42 ACR at a range of 70-80 meter's, feathering the weapon, but most other player's shoot at ranges of 30-40 meter's, which if they feel comfortable shooting at that range, all the more power to them. Even the AR can snag a kill at 70 meter's, provided they have low armor, or rather 250 or less armor and no cover. Fact is, many gun's have the range, most player's and people shoot at shorter range's. (Another example and an excellent one at that, is the ARR which has close to the same range as the RR, and once again, most players don't shoot at the medium distance range, but prefer to get closer to the enemy, for better sight on enemy acquisition). So like in most video game's, most weapon range's are pretty much utility, their there, but most people choose not to use it, mostly because the gun-games meta is purely centered around being in close, which makes excellent gun-game for supporting classes, such as Sniper, Mortar/Support, and Tank. Fact is, there's just too much preventing a sniper from doing his/her job in this game and a mortar/support or tanker will be able to function equally on the battlefield, would be nice if we could tag player's on the mini-map with a sniper rifle and get recon/scan assist's, like having your target in your sights for more than 2 second's and he/she automatically becomes tagged and seen by the rest of the team. Do you read this after you post? First the game is about those guys running around as mud runners in those suits, not about camping to snipe. Sniping IS NOT a role in this game. Read the suits to understand roles. Sniping has a very small niche for a reason. They don't have job as you put it. Assaults, scouts, heavies have roles and can take whatever 'Job" they want to take on. If its not fun as you say why would you want it in a game??? Only a complete idiot believes that if you increase range on a sniper rifle suddenly half the game players became incapable of pointing and clicking at the new range for some reason. THERE IS NO SKILL DIFFERENTIAL between the best and worst players in this game when it comes to moving your thumbs. They will snipe at the farthest possible range that gives a clear view just like they do now... Why would that change???? Snipers are a fine addition to the game, but by no means meant to be a role. That's why their is no suit labeled sniper. Having some guy you cant even see kill you while you try to hack a point... why would that seem like a great idea. So then you have to change suits and try to find a the guy in his redline hoping he does not shot you while you try to find a place to actually get a shot in without his team killing you. VERY NARROW COUNTER PLAY. Increasing the range or opening up the maps gives you even less counter play. I am not anti SR, but I am anti easy mode. Right now snipers are already easy mode. They are low risk and high reward which is against the entire premise of the game.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 1	Posted - 2015.10.03 22:04:00 - [60] - Quote What's wrong with sniping? I do just fine and everyone else seems to do just fine as well o.O The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)

BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 266	Posted - 2015.10.04 00:30:00 - [61] - Quote Precisely, nothing is wrong with it. It is working more than fine, but every couple weeks we get the "OMG I can't hit a guy in the head but I want to OHK dudes from the redline" post. It gets old. The guys with proto/officer snipers and fully skilled out SRs are having no trouble sniping. The issue is all the wannabe marine recon scrubs not understanding the game, and thinking just because a gun says sniper rifle its an excuse to play solitaire from 400 meters and they want to shoe horn it into situations were it is not the right fit. Its a gun like any other gun in the game. Its not a role. I don't say "I'm a Rail rifler", and the rail rifle is not going to be good in all situations. The sooner the wannabes understand that the sooner, the "Please CCP make me a killing machine with no risk from the redline because I cant hack the actual game mechanics" stop. I mean come on, I want an insta kill button on my control pad where I just have to see a guy and press it, but I don't think that's very good for the game. Sniping is not hard, is not a role, is not even usually helpful to the team on most maps. It is useful in a select few situation like any other weapon in this game. It is also sadly one of the options with the fewest counter strategies which is a great reason to keep it the way it is, or even better just increase the damage and make it only usable when not in the redline. That balances the risk and the reward. I just get tired of people thinking the SR is any different from other guns. Its a tool to be used some of the time when the situation calls for it. It is not a full time occupation...hence no suit named sniper. They work fine; they kill more than fine, so aside from the QQ about being bad with them I'm not sure what people want. Apparently just insta kill buttons.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.04 00:48:00 - [62] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Precisely, nothing is wrong with it. It is working more than fine, but every couple weeks we get the "OMG I can't hit a guy in the head but I want to OHK dudes from the redline" post. It gets old. The guys with proto/officer snipers and fully skilled out SRs are having no trouble sniping. The issue is all the wannabe marine recon scrubs not understanding the game, and thinking just because a gun says sniper rifle its an excuse to play solitaire from 400 meters and they want to shoe horn it into situations were it is not the right fit. Its a gun like any other gun in the game. Its not a role. I don't say "I'm a Rail rifler", and the rail rifle is not going to be good in all situations. The sooner the wannabes understand that the sooner, the "Please CCP make me a killing machine with no risk from the redline because I cant hack the actual game mechanics" stop. I mean come on, I want an insta kill button on my control pad where I just have to see a guy and press it, but I don't think that's very good for the game. Sniping is not hard, is not a role, is not even usually helpful to the team on most maps. It is useful in a select few situation like any other weapon in this game. It is also sadly one of the options with the fewest counter strategies which is a great reason to keep it the way it is, or even better just increase the damage and make it only usable when not in the redline. That balances the risk and the reward. I just get tired of people thinking the SR is any different from other guns. Its a tool to be used some of the time when the situation calls for it. It is not a full time occupation...hence no suit named sniper. They work fine; they kill more than fine, so aside from the QQ about being bad with them I'm not sure what people want. Apparently just insta kill buttons. If you think it's an instant win button, you clearly have never sniped in Dust 514 before. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 266	Posted - 2015.10.04 02:22:00 - [63] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Precisely, nothing is wrong with it. It is working more than fine, but every couple weeks we get the "OMG I can't hit a guy in the head but I want to OHK dudes from the redline" post. It gets old. The guys with proto/officer snipers and fully skilled out SRs are having no trouble sniping. The issue is all the wannabe marine recon scrubs not understanding the game, and thinking just because a gun says sniper rifle its an excuse to play solitaire from 400 meters and they want to shoe horn it into situations were it is not the right fit. Its a gun like any other gun in the game. Its not a role. I don't say "I'm a Rail rifler", and the rail rifle is not going to be good in all situations. The sooner the wannabes understand that the sooner, the "Please CCP make me a killing machine with no risk from the redline because I cant hack the actual game mechanics" stop. I mean come on, I want an insta kill button on my control pad where I just have to see a guy and press it, but I don't think that's very good for the game. Sniping is not hard, is not a role, is not even usually helpful to the team on most maps. It is useful in a select few situation like any other weapon in this game. It is also sadly one of the options with the fewest counter strategies which is a great reason to keep it the way it is, or even better just increase the damage and make it only usable when not in the redline. That balances the risk and the reward. I just get tired of people thinking the SR is any different from other guns. Its a tool to be used some of the time when the situation calls for it. It is not a full time occupation...hence no suit named sniper. They work fine; they kill more than fine, so aside from the QQ about being bad with them I'm not sure what people want. Apparently just insta kill buttons. If you think it's an instant win button, you clearly have never sniped in Dust 514 before. Again you seem to have a literacy issue Aeon: No one ever said it is an instant win button. Sound out the words and read it again. Kill is not the word Win. You have this issue a lot, we write one thing and you read another. Then you post something random. There is a reason you are getting a lot of bashing lately. Mature up and READ the posts. I snipe seldom, but when I do its not exactly hard. It is certainly not an instant win, but in fact, usually contributes little towards a win. Most of the time having another person pushing the objective is ten times better than one guy sniping. It has its place in the game, but its not a do every game activity as some players want it to be. Its a tool that right now is one of the few things in the game working OK. It probably needs some fine tuning, but upping range or damage is not right direction from the current base. Players who know when to use the tool do really well with relatively little risk compared to other in-game activities, and those who don't come here and beg for OHKs from 400 meters on all maps. It just needs to be seen as just another gun to be used when appropriate, and not given some mythic status as a separate role in the game. The AR will not be useful on all maps, and most people seem to grasp that. The issue seems to be when people can't apply the same logic to SRs.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 264	Posted - 2015.10.04 03:29:00 - [64] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Precisely, nothing is wrong with it. It is working more than fine, but every couple weeks we get the "OMG I can't hit a guy in the head but I want to OHK dudes from the redline" post. It gets old. The guys with proto/officer snipers and fully skilled out SRs are having no trouble sniping. The issue is all the wannabe marine recon scrubs not understanding the game, and thinking just because a gun says sniper rifle its an excuse to play solitaire from 400 meters and they want to shoe horn it into situations were it is not the right fit. Its a gun like any other gun in the game. Its not a role. I don't say "I'm a Rail rifler", and the rail rifle is not going to be good in all situations. The sooner the wannabes understand that the sooner, the "Please CCP make me a killing machine with no risk from the redline because I cant hack the actual game mechanics" stop. I mean come on, I want an insta kill button on my control pad where I just have to see a guy and press it, but I don't think that's very good for the game. Sniping is not hard, is not a role, is not even usually helpful to the team on most maps. It is useful in a select few situation like any other weapon in this game. It is also sadly one of the options with the fewest counter strategies which is a great reason to keep it the way it is, or even better just increase the damage and make it only usable when not in the redline. That balances the risk and the reward. I just get tired of people thinking the SR is any different from other guns. Its a tool to be used some of the time when the situation calls for it. It is not a full time occupation...hence no suit named sniper. They work fine; they kill more than fine, so aside from the QQ about being bad with them I'm not sure what people want. Apparently just insta kill buttons. If you think it's an instant win button, you clearly have never sniped in Dust 514 before. Again you seem to have a literacy issue Aeon: No one ever said it is an instant win button. Sound out the words and read it again. Kill is not the word Win. You have this issue a lot, we write one thing and you read another. Then you post something random. There is a reason you are getting a lot of bashing lately. Mature up and READ the posts. I snipe seldom, but when I do its not exactly hard. It is certainly not an instant win, but in fact, usually contributes little towards a win. Most of the time having another person pushing the objective is ten times better than one guy sniping. It has its place in the game, but its not a do every game activity as some players want it to be. Its a tool that right now is one of the few things in the game working OK. It probably needs some fine tuning, but upping range or damage is not right direction from the current base. Players who know when to use the tool do really well with relatively little risk compared to other in-game activities, and those who don't come here and beg for OHKs from 400 meters on all maps. It just needs to be seen as just another gun to be used when appropriate, and not given some mythic status as a separate role in the game. The AR will not be useful on all maps, and most people seem to grasp that. The issue seems to be when people can't apply the same logic to SRs. So clearly, I'm the ignorant bastard child of the 7th king who slept with a hideous demon, so I'm wrong on every account when it come's to gameplay, but, let's take you out of your comfort zone, shall we? So with your logic, sniper's have no role, in a realistic stand-point that could be a very grave problem (no pun intended), because if we look at this with a realistic type of view, how would Caldari ever win if they never had sniper's? Exactly they wouldn't not to say they wouldn't be helpful, given the fact that many Caldari weaponry have long spool time's, the caldari would be at a considerable disadvantage if they were caught off guard by a Gallente Scout who, logically, flanked from a different angle and distracted the opposition long enough for his own troops to encroach on the Caldari forces and engage from a distance of their liking, now by your logic, the only role's there ARE, is those that are currently in the game, so if THAT were realistic, then logically sniper rifle's simply wouldn't exist PERIOD, so taking THEM out of the equation, there would be, absolutely NOTHING, to stop Gallente from ruling over Caldari with an Iron Fist. Now Sniper's do actually deserve their own role, as in many FPS' from the Battlefield franchise, to many unnamed franchises they fit a specific role, that's flexible, and can support the allied team in more than 1 way, wouldn't make much sense to have an SR in a futuristic game and not expand upon it in someway, which is what really need's to happen. Also your claim that your not "Anti Sniper" completely contradicts the fact that you pretty much, bashed on a few sniper's already, not twisting word's, just pointing out the obvious. Furthermore, you're pretty much insulting anyone who even tries to defend the sniper rifle.... And we haven't even called you out by name..... You're the only one who seem's pretty hostile in this current moment. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 266	Posted - 2015.10.04 04:16:00 - [65] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: [quote=BARAGAMOS][quote=Aeon Amadi][quote=BARAGAMOS] So with your logic, sniper's have no role, in a realistic stand-point that could be a very grave problem (no pun intended), because if we look at this with a realistic type of view, how would Caldari ever win if they never had sniper's? Exactly they wouldn't not to say they wouldn't be helpful, given the fact that many Caldari weaponry have long spool time's, the caldari would be at a considerable disadvantage if they were caught off guard by a Gallente Scout who, logically, flanked from a different angle and distracted the opposition long enough for his own troops to encroach on the Caldari forces and engage from a distance of their liking, now by your logic, the only role's there ARE, is those that are currently in the game, so if THAT were realistic, then logically sniper rifle's simply wouldn't exist PERIOD, so taking THEM out of the equation, there would be, absolutely NOTHING, to stop Gallente from ruling over Caldari with an Iron Fist. Now Sniper's do actually deserve their own role, as in many FPS' from the Battlefield franchise, to many unnamed franchises they fit a specific role, that's flexible, and can support the allied team in more than 1 way, wouldn't make much sense to have an SR in a futuristic game and not expand upon it in someway, which is what really need's to happen. Also your claim that your not "Anti Sniper" completely contradicts the fact that you pretty much, bashed on a few sniper's already, not twisting word's, just pointing out the obvious. Furthermore, you're pretty much insulting anyone who even tries to defend the sniper rifle.... And we haven't even called you out by name..... You're the only one who seem's pretty hostile in this current moment. You might want to understand what "role" means for Dust. They are listed in the Wiki and on the drop suit pages if you need help finding them. Amazing enough sniper is not listed. The SR is just a gun like any other gun it is not a role. Treat it like a tool not an occupation. It is not going to be useful on most maps and trying to force it to be is like trying to force the AR to be useful on every map. I am not antisniper, I am anti "OMG let me have OHKs from 800 meters." Sorry your programing from other nontactical FPS lead you to believe that sniping was a role that every game needed on every map. Sniper deserves no more a role than a Laser rifler....They are both just guns. Both can be used on the role of scout, commando, assault, etc. Both also are not going to be good on every map, but on some maps they are great. Clamoring for the sniper rifle to be good everywhere is the same as wanting the Mass driver or any other gun to be good on every map. That's more than unreasonable. As for that example ....the bolt pistol works fine on that scout, other than that I am not even sure where you were headed with it. The sniper rifle does not need defending, it puts in work all day. What needs defending is the QQ about how it needs more range, less sway, or more damage. It is not meant to be an every map every game weapon much the way MDs or swarms are situational. I have yet to see a half competent sniper not have many multiples of Kills to death in a game where there is open ground like the bridge. So, again why are you wanting to "fix" something that right now works fine except to want to OHK from farther away.. that's the only argument I see on here. Guys wanting to basically chill in the MCC and press R2 for kills. The SR has no issue being a real force on many maps and with a DS to get you to some really nice perches it is already downright oppressive on maps such as the one that looks like a dam. Like I said I use the sniper rifle on occasion to counter snipe, and its not underpowered. If its skilled out you can bring down anyone on the field with two or less hits to the body from much farther than they can even see you. I am sorry but shooting a guy when you don't even render on their screen is a huge advantage that you already have. What more are you wanting??? The key is to treat the SR like any other gun. It is not going to be something you can use every map. It's not going to be a OHK machine that lets you go 20/0 every game either. It is a great TOOL for some maps and allows for some great games when it is called for, but in most cases it is simply not going to be useful enough to warrant running. Besides you really don't want 16v16 redline sniper games because the gun over shadows other guns in the game after you turn up the damage, reduce the sway, and increase the range.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 264	Posted - 2015.10.04 04:52:00 - [66] - Quote Except I'm not asking for more damage, especially not reduced sway, either increased range or maybe reintroduction of sharpshooter skills to increase the range, or maybe the ability to tag my enemies, so that my allies can see their location's, that's all I'm asking for. It's more upsetting to see an enemy within the scope and know he's going to get away with everything he want's like some spoiled teenager from a rich family, all because your allies aren't on comm's or are too ignorant, or unaware to know where the enemy is at. If not able to kill them, at least give us the ability to tag em'. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 269	Posted - 2015.10.04 05:09:00 - [67] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Except I'm not asking for more damage, especially not reduced sway, either increased range or maybe reintroduction of sharpshooter skills to increase the range, or maybe the ability to tag my enemies, so that my allies can see their location's, that's all I'm asking for. It's more upsetting to see an enemy within the scope and know he's going to get away with everything he want's like some spoiled teenager from a rich family, all because your allies aren't on comm's or are too ignorant, or unaware to know where the enemy is at. If not able to kill them, at least give us the ability to tag em'. That seems like something that would give guys with sniper rifles a more rounded purpose and make them more useful on more maps without amping up the actual gun itself. So maybe some combination of abilities that make snipers not feel like your team is down a man is the right answer.
Yummy Alcohol Chaotic War Lords 15	Posted - 2015.10.04 05:09:00 - [68] - Quote Personally I think snipers are fine as they are. The sway while standing is important and realistic; you simply cannot stand and remain perfectly still while firing a gun at range. The smallest involuntary twitch will leave you meters off target depending on the distance. At shorter distances such as with other guns in the game it is basically negligible thus why they do not sway. Real snipers or even hunters can make long distance shots accurately because they do not stand, in fact more often than not they have a stand or bipod/tripod which take several seconds to several minutes to set up. Yet people are complaining because when they aim down the scope it takes a couple seconds for the sway to stop? I think the damage is fine too. why should a body shot from a sniper rifle kill someone in one hit when it takes multiple HEADSHOTS with any other gun to kill someone? I snipe pretty often (generally when my team is pissing me off) with only advanced versions and no proficiency skill and I have no reason to complain about what I am able to do. In fact, more often than not I get a headshot when I didn't think I deserved it or a normal body shot when I thought I missed completely. So for the people complaining about hitboxes and what not, I think it is in our favor more often than against.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.04 05:58:00 - [69] - Quote I think certain statements are getting taken out of context on this argument, on both sides. I'm going to use myself and MY opinions (Not Aeon's and certainly not the CPM as a whole) as to my issues with sniping. Because of the marginal utility and difficulty in making a sniper an asset to the team (if you're not in comms or a freaking murder god pulling consistent double digits per match around 20 kills? You aren't.) I tend to relegate my sniper usage solely to counter-sniper. There are a few technical reasons for this, which I will list below, to expand on my opening statement. 1: Hit detection. Do I really need to elaborate here? 2: Low FPS/Lag make it difficult to center the sniper crosshair consistently on a target, much less their head easily, often forcing an overshoot and constant micro-corrections that in a smoother framerate would be the result of... maybe half a second, two seconds max to settle in a target. Good snipers can settle in on a target almost instantly when framerates cooperate. Not everyone has a magical SSD and the stars aligning to make this happen consistently. 3: Movement inertia is a particular thorn in my side for many reasons. The ability to shift direction with no/negligible loss of momentum makes "pain in the ass" seem like a rather understated description of the process of lining up a body shot, much less a headshot. And because sniper rifles are hitscan, you cannot lead the target and figure out where along his path you can release. This is actually why forge snipers are largely more successful at blapping dropsuits. Once you know the timing of the shot flying, you can lead the target and release about when he's going to intersect with the projectile. With the sniper rifle you have that brief, not-moment as the reticle flashes red to pull a perfect shot. These are the technical issues that make it extremely hard for me to gauge the utility/usefulness of sniping as a whole. Now, let's go over some of the issues that occur on the target side which contribute to the hatred of snipers, or at least the ones I actually lend validity to (standing still and getting ya head blown off in your Rattati Gk.0 suit by an opportunist with a thale isn't exactly something I have an abundance of sympathy for). 1: One-shot kills... This is a skillshot, pure and simple, and in my opinion, a valid playstyle. But by the same token, I feel that being able to tank up and build a suit intended to survive a sniper shot (or two in the case of some sentinels) is a valid playstyle method as well. Action/counter interplay should be preserved. But I'm not particularly against one shot kills as a potential, rather than an absolute. 2: Range. The sniper rifles outrange every single weapon in the game, by no less than 50m in the case of the tactical sniper and ranging up to 150 for the standard sniper. This means a ranging shot from a sniper rifle can often ONLY be answered with another sniper rifle or a OB, or a lot of high-risk approach which is almost invariably done as a suicidal gesture in the redline with the loss of a suit/LAV/dropship a certainty rather than a risk. 3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period. #3 often makes it IMPOSSIBLE to retaliate against a sniper whether in the redline or on a hill crest to the side in a valid engagement area. Because if you cannot render it, you cannot see it, which means killing it is impossible. Is this the fault of sniper players? Absolutely not. Draw distance limits were a memory-saving response that was used to keep the game from going too choppy. But it creates it's own balance problems. The draw distance limit was why thale users in the past with 500m+ optimal/absolute ranges could not be killed by anyone except another thale user. Because they could sit in the redline 200-250m back, sight in a high traffic area and kill with impunity, and other sniper rifles could perform similar feats, albeit with more difficulty, was why sniper rifle ranges were nerfed to force snipers to come to ranges where someone approaching the redline CAN RENDER THEM and retaliate. 4: The redline. Snipers can hide so deep in the redline that killing one requires either another sniper rifle, or a willingness to sacrifice an entire fitting to kill one upon success, much less if the sniper manages to kill you and survive. This has historically been a MAJOR and valid complaint that snipers could kill with impunity but killing them back means you have to die in a fit to get them. Or you had to countersnipe them. When the only counter to something is itself, you have an imbalance that MUST be addressed. 90% of the nerfs to snipers, 90% of the issues sniper users have had to put up with, and 90% of why sniper rifles have been in the past, and will be in the future considered OP regardless of reality can be tracked right back to #3 and #4. Draw distance limitations combined with # 4, the redline have created a situation that does not exist in any other first person shooter. An environment where snipers can enjoy long killstreaks and realistically, greater safety than any other player in the game including tank drivers. This is why snipers have "enjoyed" multiple nerfs that, deserved or not, were absolutely necessary. So, does this make my stance clear on why technical issues in DUST 514 create problems with the sniper rifle that obscure the failure points and balance of the weapons to where balance is needlessly hard? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 273	Posted - 2015.10.05 04:03:00 - [70] - Quote D-does anyone else feel defeated by what breakin stuff just jot down?... When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.

Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 214	Posted - 2015.10.06 04:19:00 - [71] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: D-does anyone else feel defeated by what breakin stuff just jot down?... No, look at my earlier comments to see I showed there were ways to address Breaking Stuffs long winded post with I agree with everything he said in his wall of text. It is the same thing long time snipers have been hollering about for ages. It is simply a time for a redesign of the sniper role that fits in with not only lore but as well as hardware limitations. I did not throw up a wall of text but offered straight forward answers to Breakings concerns. Samantha Hunyz wrote: Way to stay close minded. If hit detection is that poor than adding aim assist, reducing range, and buffing damage or rate of fire seems like a way it can be hotfixed. p.s. are you an IWS alt? In a nutshell, the range is too much for the system so it has to be reduced, but should come with a trade off. SO to put into practice a balanced environment we need to combine both Breakings and Aeons idea for balance as well as mine. Nerf: (Breaking Stuff) concerns about low framerates and bad hit detection) range needs to be reduced more towards 100-150 ms tops. Buff: (Aeon ) normalize the damage jump between tiers as so that the officer damage isn't that great over proto as it is. well in that first cycle snipers now have to get out the redline and be on the map. both sides win win. But that leaves a sniper still with a glaring flaw. Snipers only use have of the aiming devices and even at those ranges have bad hit detection. proposed fixes: Buff- give aim assist at the lowest level to help bullet magnetism. Nerf- No nerf needed. To explain only using 50% of the aiming sticks provided is already a nerf to aiming, making aiming already too difficult. This alone gives the sniped a huge advantage over the the now non arguable skilled shooter an advantage. And I want it that way. I want my skill shots to mean I beat you fairly. Hell, badly. But what do I know, constructive criticism never seems welcome. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
fragmentedhackslash Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 394	Posted - 2015.10.06 09:19:00 - [72] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: D-does anyone else feel defeated by what breakin stuff just jot down?... No, look at my earlier comments to see I showed there were ways to address Breaking Stuffs long winded post with I agree with everything he said in his wall of text. It is the same thing long time snipers have been hollering about for ages. It is simply a time for a redesign of the sniper role that fits in with not only lore but as well as hardware limitations. I did not throw up a wall of text but offered straight forward answers to Breakings concerns. Samantha Hunyz wrote: Way to stay close minded. If hit detection is that poor than adding aim assist, reducing range, and buffing damage or rate of fire seems like a way it can be hotfixed. p.s. are you an IWS alt? In a nutshell, the range is too much for the system so it has to be reduced, but should come with a trade off. SO to put into practice a balanced environment we need to combine both Breakings and Aeons idea for balance as well as mine. Nerf: (Breaking Stuff) concerns about low framerates and bad hit detection) range needs to be reduced more towards 100-150 ms tops. Buff: (Aeon ) normalize the damage jump between tiers as so that the officer damage isn't that great over proto as it is. well in that first cycle snipers now have to get out the redline and be on the map. both sides win win. But that leaves a sniper still with a glaring flaw. Snipers only use have of the aiming devices and even at those ranges have bad hit detection. proposed fixes: Buff- give aim assist at the lowest level to help bullet magnetism. Nerf- No nerf needed. To explain only using 50% of the aiming sticks provided is already a nerf to aiming, making aiming already too difficult. This alone gives the sniped a huge advantage over the the now non arguable skilled shooter an advantage. And I want it that way. I want my skill shots to mean I beat you fairly. Hell, badly. But what do I know, constructive criticism never seems welcome. No. To all this. Just no. [49FYD FRAG] INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 20:37:00 - [73] - Quote I'm not going to bother with your comparison od your "IWS "alt" insult as being legitimate feedback, so we'll move along. Samantha Hunyz wrote: In a nutshell, the range is too much for the system so it has to be reduced, but should come with a trade off. SO to put into practice a balanced environment we need to combine both Breakings and Aeons idea for balance as well as mine. Nerf: (Breaking Stuff) concerns about low framerates and bad hit detection) range needs to be reduced more towards 100-150 ms tops. Buff: (Aeon ) normalize the damage jump between tiers as so that the officer damage isn't that great over proto as it is. The only thing this will accomplish is bringing snipers in close and forcing them to crouch in easy attack range. If the sniper-sway is removed you introduce High-power quick-scoping at 150m that completely eliminates the utility of tac rifles in DUST. Quote: Buff- give aim assist at the lowest level to help bullet magnetism. High alpha weapons with potential for OHK should never be allowed Aim assist for any reason. But the main problem with this idea is that Aim Assist pulls rounds natively towards center mass, so you introduce the ability to "slop ball" headshots by aiming a bit above the head of the target. magnetism will pull the round low, most likely intersecting the head and removing the skillshot quality from headshots. This is a balance nightmare looking for a place to happen. Quote: But what do I know, constructive criticism never seems welcome. Your response to a viewpoint you didn't want to hear/didn't offer what you wanted them to say was to offer insult and imply that the person doesn't have a clue what they speak of. So here's an answer: No, there is no plan on the table to hotfix sniper rifles at this time that I am aware of. Given the issues inherent to sniping, I don't see that happening any time in the near future. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.10.06 21:20:00 - [74] - Quote @ Breakin While I would agree with you a lot of the problem for snipers is hard to fix technical issues or problems, is there any real harm with making damage/range inversely proportional? Also, what is the feasibility of changing the sway mechanic so that it only becomes active while scoping to prevent quick scopes, but does not "reset" when a player simply moves laterally if they are already scoped? Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 21:30:00 - [75] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: @ Breakin While I would agree with you a lot of the problem for snipers is hard to fix technical issues or problems, is there any real harm with making damage/range inversely proportional? Also, what is the feasibility of changing the sway mechanic so that it only becomes active while scoping to prevent quick scopes, but does not "reset" when a player simply moves laterally if they are already scoped? that's a tech question, honestly. I don't know if lateral movement is a thing that can be separately set. But damage to range being inversely proportional isn't something I have issues with by itself. One of the things I'm looking at, though, is "ease of use" 150m snipers doing a lot of damage isn't necessarily bad. But if it's easier to quickscope a sniper rifle than it is to use a tac rifle then there's a problem. This damn game is a blender of weird decisions. But having to crouch inside of 150m (this one's me looking out for the snipers) makes them basically meat for (my other pet peeve) hold-charge forge snipers. Assault forges are less of a problem because they can't hold the charge and sight in on a crouched sniper. Sure it'll be easier. But the closer we bring snipers to Destiny style sniping or worse, Call of Duty style sniping the less the game is going to feel like DUST. Honestly I wouldn't have a problem if you could shoot a sniper standing as long as you obeyed the scope sway needing to settle. This is actually one of the topics I poke at and try to make work on occasion, without breaking snipers or making them an IWIN button. And the problems aren't inherent to the guns or the dropsuits you load them on so much as the inherent circumstances that dictate how you can engage with said guns. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 503	Posted - 2015.10.06 21:54:00 - [76] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because of the marginal utility and difficulty in making a sniper an asset to the team (if you're not in comms or a freaking murder god pulling consistent double digits per match around 20 kills? You aren't.) . { 1} 2: Low FPS/Lag make it difficult to center the sniper crosshair consistently on a target, much less their head easily, often forcing an overshoot and constant micro-corrections { 2} 3: Movement inertia is a particular thorn in my side for many reasons. The ability to shift direction with no/negligible loss of momentum makes "pain in the ass" seem like a rather understated description of the process of lining up a body shot, much less a headshot. And because sniper rifles are hitscan, you cannot lead the target and figure out where along his path you can release. Once you know the timing of the shot flying, you can lead the target and release about when he's going to intersect with the projectile. With the sniper rifle you have that brief, not-moment as the reticle flashes red to pull a perfect shot. { 3} (standing still and getting ya head blown off in your Rattati Gk.0 suit by an opportunist with a thale isn't exactly something I have an abundance of sympathy for). 2: Range. The sniper rifles outrange every single weapon in the game, by no less than 50m in the case of the tactical sniper and ranging up to 150 for the standard sniper. This means a ranging shot from a sniper rifle can often ONLY be answered with another sniper rifle or a OB, or a lot of high-risk approach which is almost invariably done as a suicidal gesture in the redline with the loss of a suit/LAV/dropship a certainty rather than a risk. 3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period. { 4} So, does this make my stance clear on why technical issues in DUST 514 create problems with the sniper rifle that obscure the failure points and balance of the weapons to where balance is needlessly hard? I like most of this post. very good. Since sniper rifles cant be balanced easily due to tech issues how about we do focus on snipers as a role instead? I personally find that a larger issue with sniping is the fact that other than killing there is no use for a sniper could this be addressed through things like target painting? 1. I re-iterate the need for more utility behind sniping, this would go along way towards helping the snipers on dust. 2 there is a horrible feeling to missing because of twitch adjusting against a target that should be an easy kill that most players will never know and its only made worse when bullets don't connect or they don't do enough damage. 3. i'm glad you pointed this out, most people who don't snipe on here will say how hitscan is easy mode, but in reality its counter intuitive, and reduces the window for a successful shot. mostly through the fact that there is no leading a target for the actual shot. but also as there is a "not moment" just AS the dot turns red to hit a moving target thats so slight, if the dot has already turned red you will miss. yes sniper rifles outrange other weapons, (not sure about forge guns, but probably those too.) however they are sniper rifles. and due to the way the sniper rifles work they couldn't be reliably used inside the ranges of the other weapons any more than a bow could. maybe there should be some new form of counter play created possibly a single target o.b could be linked to a sniper "painted" lock on? that would only be usable against a stationary target making it useless against most other things and the sniper scope would solve draw distance issues. 4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping. also: the only sniper rifle needing a sway reduction is the tactical variants. seems like the charge rifle needs something doing to it, cant quite put my finger on what yet though. the symbs fork rifle doesn't gain enough damage for its trade offs with both charge and range over the thales. lastly I think that a more rounded approach is needed (probably involving new skills) and with range issues perhaps a carrot will work better then a stick.?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 22:09:00 - [77] - Quote someone told me the symbs does the same damage if you snap fire it versus full charge. if that's the case it needs a look. Quote: Attention 4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping. There is no reality in which the draw distance limit isn't an unfair advantage. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 278	Posted - 2015.10.06 22:33:00 - [78] - Quote Then, why not make SR's trajectory based? Slap some forge statistics and increase their bullet velocity? It would add more skill to the weapon and could solve the issue with hit scan detection issues for the weapon. Also the Symb's has 5 bullets and extra reserves, in comparison, it only need's an extra 50m, that way it can feel like a true officer and not an experimental version of the charge sr. In regard's to finding a sniper, if one's stacking profile dampener's then they're not going to be spotted, but if your scan precision is lower than their scan profile, it should auto spot the enemy sniper. Example A: Profile-20, Enemy Precision-30, Shot fired-Connected "Slight Margin of Error" Example B: Profile-40, Enemy Precision-30, Shot fired-Connected-Player Screen- "You have been scanned". Would make sense right, but obviously it'd only work on the 1 person and can only be seen by the 1 person who was shot (if their a squad lead and smart then that'd be a different story). If I can always hit my target, that's all that matter's to me, I know I'm accurate and I know how to lead, played ton's of trajectory based FPS' (mostly BF) to get this skill, let me use it with more weapon's than just the MD, PLC, and Small Missile Turret. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 28	Posted - 2015.10.06 22:56:00 - [79] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Except I'm not asking for more damage, especially not reduced sway, either increased range or maybe reintroduction of sharpshooter skills to increase the range, or maybe the ability to tag my enemies, so that my allies can see their location's, that's all I'm asking for. It's more upsetting to see an enemy within the scope and know he's going to get away with everything he want's like some spoiled teenager from a rich family, all because your allies aren't on comm's or are too ignorant, or unaware to know where the enemy is at. If not able to kill them, at least give us the ability to tag em'. I would agree with this. From a Caldari point of view, limiting how far you can be away from your target is prejudicial to the way Caldari operate, and therefore directly attacking one of the racial archetypes in the game. There should be no red line. The red line is an artificial construct which directly influences Caldari tactics. Instead, there should be some arbitrary limit to the maps which is so far outside the range of SRs as to be effectively nonexistent. There has to be a limit to the maps, obviously, because no system has infinite memory to host an infinite map. The SR range at the moment, for each individual SR is probably not bad, for starter skills, but as Zan states, should be increased by sharpshooter skills to be more like the 1-2km that real sniper rifles can manage - only with every relevant skill maxed out of course. As for the contention I've read elsewhere in this thread that the SR is not a role, no of course it's not. It's a rifle. But the sniper IS a role. You can't treat a SR like any other rifle - it's the only one that has very specific issues with sway, can't hit the side of a barn at point blank range without the scope, and is only semi-automatic, with no auto function of any form. Most people don't have a clue how to properly use a SR. The people who claim the sniper is not a role in the game are doing so because in their minds no such role exists. And to support that, CCP has acquiesced to nerfing the SR and the game boundary to lessen the role. But that role is the Caldari role. In EvE it's called "kiting". Caldari specialise in sniping. Not from any arbitrary boundary, but from the absolute limit of their range. If you want to level Caldari sniping, the way to do it is to remove the constraints so that would be snipers have to snipe from within the limits of their range not from within the boundary of a map.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 31	Posted - 2015.10.06 22:59:00 - [80] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Except I'm not asking for more damage, especially not reduced sway, either increased range or maybe reintroduction of sharpshooter skills to increase the range, or maybe the ability to tag my enemies, so that my allies can see their location's, that's all I'm asking for. It's more upsetting to see an enemy within the scope and know he's going to get away with everything he want's like some spoiled teenager from a rich family, all because your allies aren't on comm's or are too ignorant, or unaware to know where the enemy is at. If not able to kill them, at least give us the ability to tag em'. That seems like something that would give guys with sniper rifles a more rounded purpose and make them more useful on more maps without amping up the actual gun itself. So maybe some combination of abilities that make snipers not feel like your team is down a man is the right answer. Try "down 5-10 men"!! Here I have to agree with the anti-sniper crowd to an extent. I'm sick of dying again and again and again in battle wondering where all the troops are, since I can find noone anywhere, and finally grab my sniper fit to see if I can be useful there, only to find all the blues scattered around the hills around the map. It really does give one a feeling of futility.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 31	Posted - 2015.10.06 23:18:00 - [81] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period. #3 often makes it IMPOSSIBLE to retaliate against a sniper whether in the redline or on a hill crest to the side in a valid engagement area. Because if you cannot render it, you cannot see it, which means killing it is impossible. Is this the fault of sniper players? Absolutely not. Draw distance limits were a memory-saving response that was used to keep the game from going too choppy. But it creates it's own balance problems. The draw distance limit was why thale users in the past with 500m+ optimal/absolute ranges could not be killed by anyone except another thale user. Because they could sit in the redline 200-250m back, sight in a high traffic area and kill with impunity, and other sniper rifles could perform similar feats, albeit with more difficulty, was why sniper rifle ranges were nerfed to force snipers to come to ranges where someone approaching the redline CAN RENDER THEM and retaliate. So you're saying that because of the platform, or perhaps difficulty in programming the code, this whole sniper role was nerfed, a role with is fundamental to the Caldari's racial tactics? Nice one. I might add that I'm not surprised, I suspected as much myself, but I didn't think you'd outright just say it. This is pure racial prejudice, using the supposed limitations of the platform as a vehicle. And it brings back into the light the endless calls for a port - then there would be no excuse. Quote: 4: The redline. Snipers can hide so deep in the redline that killing one requires either another sniper rifle, or a willingness to sacrifice an entire fitting to kill one upon success, much less if the sniper manages to kill you and survive. This has historically been a MAJOR and valid complaint that snipers could kill with impunity but killing them back means you have to die in a fit to get them. Or you had to countersnipe them. When the only counter to something is itself, you have an imbalance that MUST be addressed. No! It does not have to be nerfed. The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. Anything else is an artificial arbitrary construct. OK so this is a game but as far as I understood it was supposed to be as realistic as possible. Having a red line in the first place is ridiculous. You stray outside the redline and you are magicly killed in an instant after some cosmic timer has gone off. I'd accept that if the red line was so far away as to be well outside the range of any weapon in the game, even SRs which have the ability with training to range to 2km. When the red line is an arbitrary construct that kills you just for being there and not with any form of degradation over the 20s or so you're there but instantly at the expiry of that time, is just ridiculous. I don't accept that you can't put the redline much further out. You don't have to have every single point on the map in memory the whole time. You can have just a "kernel" of it in memory and the rest loadable as necessary. Yes it would take more programming, which is a whole other issue, but it's doable, and would eliminate this ridiculous red line.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 23:35:00 - [82] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 279	Posted - 2015.10.06 23:53:00 - [83] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. Can't say much about the second part of the statement, but most game's redline's are meant to stop a dominating team from completely pushing their enemies up against the prison shower wall. Well in any case, we probably will see a hotfix or patch for the SR someday, when CCP decides to do something about the SR's low team effectivity. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.07 05:16:00 - [84] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. There is a wide gulf of difference between "snipers are protected by their ability to hide effectively in cover and hiding in the bushes keeps you from seeing them" and "Snipers are protected by their ability to not be rendered by the game engine at all." WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 18	Posted - 2015.10.07 05:32:00 - [85] - Quote Sniper rifles as they are have no place in this game without bullet physics. Either you make them short range DMR's, about 20m-30m above the longest range rifles, or you give them bullet physics and keep them as a long range option. Point and shoot insta kill from 400m away has no place in DUST. Ripley Riley: > Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault: > DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 18	Posted - 2015.10.07 05:34:00 - [86] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. Bullshit on that. Battlefield snipers have bullet physics, this means you can throw off their aim by being completely unpredictable. Dodge, duck and weave make them work for the kill. If they are close enough to land a shot despite this, then they are close enough to be shot by your rifle. There's also Machine Gun suppression that messes with their aim, dramatically increasing scope sway. A Battlefield sniper has to work for the kill, it isn't point and shoot. Ripley Riley: > Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault: > DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.07 07:16:00 - [87] - Quote Bullet physics is irrelevant. It is difficult to hit a target in Dust as the high TTK means targets move around a lot. And it's hardly one hit kill, more like three hits in many cases. What about my suggestion of adding 100 damage, reducing this to a two hit kill. KDR is largely irrelevant. What matters is impact on the battle, which is mostly decided by objective control. A sniper can't take an objective, and doesn't soak up enemy fire. All a sniper can do is kill, they should be good at it. If the redline is a problem I'd rather see it pushed back.
Balts Xryiel Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 14	Posted - 2015.10.07 10:52:00 - [88] - Quote The fact that people say about a triple-damage mod. They havent yet seen what happen when you have a quad-damage mod and a SMYB-FORK (which is by the way my favourite sniper in game) in one dropsuit alltogether can do to a sentinel sheild and amour. im not saying i can OHK but it makes them more aware of my present in the field -One does not just RE a Heavy-
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 503	Posted - 2015.10.07 11:58:00 - [89] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: someone told me the symbs does the same damage if you snap fire it versus full charge. if that's the case it needs a look. Quote: Attention 4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping. There is no reality in which the draw distance limit isn't an unfair advantage. I probably wasn't clear enough in what I was getting at due to a lack of remaining characters. I don't mean to say that its fair to have a player literally invisible to enemies, but what I was trying to say is that if you take away aspects related to the draw distance issues it could lead to a sniper being very highly exposed at the moment. i.e if a player takes high ground to snipe, they will be backlit by the sky, their chevron glowing above their head, whilst crouched down and aiming down scope in a place that everybody knows is a vantage point leaving tracer lines showing everybody they shoot at or near their exact position regardless of distance and as none of that requires a scan, profile dampeners wont help. now admittedly there are some things here that you could say like the sniper shouldn't hold the position for too long, or perhaps the person sniping shouldn't use the known vantage points. but both of those would require a sniper to be able to be much more mobile than they can realistically be on dust, especially when you consider the difficulty of making a worthy contribution to a battle and the time it takes to get into a usable position (moving around even a few times in a battle as a sniper can use up a large portion of a battles time.) so although I agree that draw distance is an unfair advantage, it almost balances out due to the fact that most players already know where to find a sniper anyway. i'm just concerned if you were to remove the time it takes to find a sniper without first finding a way to increase their stealth capabilities and/or their movement then it would be very impractical to snipe at all.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 265	Posted - 2015.10.08 10:33:00 - [90] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Bullet physics is irrelevant. It is difficult to hit a target in Dust as the high TTK means targets move around a lot. And it's hardly one hit kill, more like three hits in many cases. What about my suggestion of adding 100 damage, reducing this to a two hit kill. KDR is largely irrelevant. What matters is impact on the battle, which is mostly decided by objective control. A sniper can't take an objective, and doesn't soak up enemy fire. All a sniper can do is kill, they should be good at it. If the redline is a problem I'd rather see it pushed back. People try to create this illusion that sniping is just point and click, insta-killing. If that were the case, everyone would be doing it, but obviously it's not. It does take follow-up shots, especially if you don't land a HS or miss, to kill targets and skill to keep it up. No bullet physics needed due to faulty core mechanics. We've discussed this at length in other forums. What I have agreed with, though, and still agree with is, yes, push back the redline and revert range. The game had out to 1K m of range to the SR in early builds, I don't see how nerfing the playing field and range of the SR is gonna help players come out or make sniping more effective. Seeing how arguments always end up using the redline as the go-to counter-argument, I can only see pushing it back as helping to quell that completely. This playstyle, and the Caldari one, revolves around range being used to our advantage whereas Gallente are close to medium. It is a valid tactic in shooters, and MMOs i.e. the ranger class, and shouldn't be constrained due to biases. Pushing the range out farther makes snipers accessible to anyone and everyone to kill, especially if you know the direction and distance you were shot/killed from. Draw distance isn't a problem when you can close the gap. Scouts do it all the time when they jump up to SG you from behind. Though I can see memory constraints of the console being a limiting factor, thinking anything otherwise is backwards thinking. - if only PS4 was green lit. Agree with Aeon that the damage profiles of Sniper Rifles should line up closer as to make them more effective and in-line progression-wise. Disagree on increased damage up close and decreased damage farther out. Doesn't make sense logistically seeing how bullet velocity increases with range. F=MA. And yes, we're in the future. Shooting 1-2K m out is believable with Caldari technology. Just reading the description could tell you that, but we're not asking for that. Just enough to cover the playing field while allowing others to still kill us within the playing field is enough. I see you coming from a mile away.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 38	Posted - 2015.10.08 11:15:00 - [91] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. Let me put it in terms of EvE ships - Caldari "kite" at maximum range from their targets, like a sniper, keeping at distance. The best counter to that is another Caldari with greater range, a sniper that can snipe from a greater range. But Gallente can outpace Caldari ships generally, and get inside their range, hitting with their blasters (most powerful weapons in the game, but short range). The equivalent is a scout with a powerful rifle, hunting for the sniper. The red line is an issue. As an artificial construct, the sniper can sit behind the opposing team's red line, so they can't approach close enough to hit with powerful short range weapons. So in Dust, the only counter to a sniper is a counter-sniper. But if the red line issue was dealt with, there would be theoretically no place where a sniper could go that some enterprising scout couldn't find them.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 38	Posted - 2015.10.08 11:36:00 - [92] - Quote With regard to the discussion on the nature of the physics of sniping, I've thought a lot about this. I totally agree that the physics should be addressed. It's just not reasonable for higher range weapons out to 2km to not be effected by the environment - chaos theory says that there has to be a probability component to whether or not a hit is made. However, we should understand this isn't really "bullet physics", when we're talking about energies that are high enough to form a plasma on impact of the projectile. I have no problem at all with the idea of straight line trajectories, because the speeds are so high that even at 2km the drop in trajectory due to gravity would not be noticeable. What would be noticeable, however, would be the chance element, which can be introduced as a simple random number generator function of range, from an optimal range effected by skills as well as the weapon with 100% hit, out to maximum range where the effective hit probability would be 0, again, effected by skills. Sniper isn't point-and-hit in real life, and shouldn't be in this game. It would be so ridiculously easy to implement this. I see the redline issue as being more of a problem than implementation of proper projectile physics or hit probability.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.08 12:43:00 - [93] - Quote Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 281	Posted - 2015.10.08 16:53:00 - [94] - Quote Actually, I'd be pretty comfortable removing the redline, simply due to the fact that my secondary weapon wasn't up to par like it is now, now I can snipe while being able to defend myself proper alone, without the need of artificial boundaries or 4 other people being in front of me. Still a counter perfect, will always be a sniper, I mean, the only real issue would be is that amarr or sentinel staying in the same place preventing us sniper's from doing our work. But that would be something to address, at a later time. (Or could be addressed with a non jump-able wall between the sniper and enemy player in the perceived "redline" where player's can harass the sniper with grenades and such. People love their nade's and more so ever now) When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 218	Posted - 2015.10.08 17:42:00 - [95] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
XxBlazikenxX Pure Evil. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 2	Posted - 2015.10.08 17:45:00 - [96] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. join in my corp? Teach me sniping? Director of Pure Evil. Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 265	Posted - 2015.10.08 17:52:00 - [97] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Actually, I'd be pretty comfortable removing the redline, simply due to the fact that my secondary weapon wasn't up to par like it is now, now I can snipe while being able to defend myself proper alone, without the need of artificial boundaries or 4 other people being in front of me. Still a counter perfect, will always be a sniper, I mean, the only real issue would be is that amarr or sentinel staying in the same place preventing us sniper's from doing our work. But that would be something to address, at a later time. (Or could be addressed with a non jump-able wall between the sniper and enemy player in the perceived "redline" where player's can harass the sniper with grenades and such. People love their nade's and more so ever now) Honestly, the red line should only be a complaint in Domination, which I bet the majority of these redline complainers don't even play. I wouldn't mind removing it or having it moved back at all if it can still be a safe haven for spawners (not snipers and sniping spots) in this game mode, however. The population for this game is pretty small that you see a lot of the same people unless they stop playing. Having used to play this game a year or two straight daily, I've never seen these guys (on the NA servers at least) until I hopped into other game modes. They all argue that this is an objective based game, which it is, but the issue of the redline doesn't affect people playing Ambush or Skirmish as much, and a lot more people enjoy queing up for those over Doms. For the former, you're either killing with your squad and playing tight, or running quick Ambushes alone, and the objective is to clone the other team. Ambush is so quick that snipers usually avoid playing it, especially if a map is catered for Assaults. With Skirmish, it's clone and/or push and defend the objectives to win. In no way can a sniper who's staying behind the redline be of a big enough nuisance or effective due to the limited lines of sight to be a game changer in this mode either. They'd have to move constantly by dropship to get any good vantage points unless they're mobile on the ground. In the latter, someone who gets in range and sees you can easily kill you, dampened or not - hence snipers are supposed to be effective from range. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 265	Posted - 2015.10.08 17:59:00 - [98] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I've briefly skimmed the Excel spreadsheet for this upcoming Hotfix, though i don't recall if damage mods were moved to low-slots at all in the previous fix. If they're still high-slots, it would be interesting to see how effective one can be sacrificing damage mods for health. In my experience, at least on my scout account, it doesn't fly really well because you give up a bit of damage. People also still see you moving around unless you're dampened and moving to and from safe cover/perches. Maybe the higher recharge rate will get some people experimenting with the Tac, multiple suits, and with duck and cover tactics, though. I see you coming from a mile away.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 218	Posted - 2015.10.08 18:06:00 - [99] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. join in my corp? Teach me sniping? Until sniping is viable, I will not join another corp. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.08 20:10:00 - [100] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav

Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 281	Posted - 2015.10.08 20:51:00 - [101] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.08 21:07:00 - [102] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. Where did I ever say I wanted to nerf heavy suit sniping O.o??? Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 218	Posted - 2015.10.08 21:13:00 - [103] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. Bullshit on that. Battlefield snipers have bullet physics, this means you can throw off their aim by being completely unpredictable. Dodge, duck and weave make them work for the kill. If they are close enough to land a shot despite this, then they are close enough to be shot by your rifle. There's also Machine Gun suppression that messes with their aim, dramatically increasing scope sway. A Battlefield sniper has to work for the kill, it isn't point and shoot. On this game it might be just point and shoot, but it comes with alot of trade off. For starters, only able to use half of the thumb sticks. This in its self makes landing a shot take 50% more aiming ability than any other weapon in this game. That also allows those getting snipped to dodge, duck and weaving is very effect due to these limiting factors and every kill is so earned. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 281	Posted - 2015.10.08 21:44:00 - [104] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. Where did I ever say I wanted to nerf heavy suit sniping O.o??? Ah, sorry, that was directed towards Samantha, you just kinda got in the middle, my bad. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 218	Posted - 2015.10.08 21:45:00 - [105] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Quick report: Scout CK0 Highs- 2x energizers, 1x extender, 1x damage mode. Lows- 1x reg 1x damp, also a 2x reg Snipping with a scout without max damage mods is more painful than what it was versus shield users especially with the Ishukone. The tac faired better but still after a few clips, shield users were more likely to get away and have me just stop shooting at them. Scouts mostly slipped away. Assaults with reg suits could tank and regen fully before I could land a a 2nd round. Commandos and sentenials minus headshots (which is extremely difficult on the tac) we a total waste of bullets. I did not test the assault, but it could do better just due to reload bonus and an extra slot for another damage mod. I only have the caldari assault to adv, but have some loyalty store protos. I probably will be choose to use this over my scout after I get it to proto. Commando CK0 High-2x damage mods, 1x energizer. Lows-2x regs. This suit is a beast and perfect for high ground on the map snipping. Paired with the new bonus to swarms, it allows me to really defend my spot from suicidal heavy and dropships. Before I found this tactic to always go in the favour of my opponent. AT least It feels like a 50% chance which I am glad to have. Also with the regen capabilities, I am less scared of taking light rifle damage. Before I would hide after the first round hit me, and fall back to a new spot if possible. Now I swing my tac to them and try to take them down. If I feel like I am going to fail, I drop back and regen, than go back to the attack. Pair this suit with a forge up high and I believe you have the perfect AV and anti-infantry team. This is the first time I actually enjoyed playing sniper with this suit. Still won't be me go to suit on average, but I'm it will see alot of play time for sure. I have not got in a calmando versus calmando yet. It will still favour the one the spots the other first, but could lead to match long nobody dying or killing due to these regen abilities it has. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 218	Posted - 2015.10.08 21:50:00 - [106] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. ]I am not asking for any nerfs as I like the new shield and armour balance. I am advocating for the sniper to be reworked or buffed to compensate for these buffs to bring the SR back into a decent place. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 281	Posted - 2015.10.08 22:00:00 - [107] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. ]I am not asking for any nerfs as I like the new shield and armour balance. I am advocating for the sniper to be reworked or buffed to compensate for these buffs to bring the SR back into a decent place. HAAAALLELUJAH! Still would like to auto scan my targets per shot, a sniper would at least deserve that much for actually hitting the soon to be rotting corpse..... When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 265	Posted - 2015.10.09 02:51:00 - [108] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live. I see you coming from a mile away.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 283	Posted - 2015.10.09 20:01:00 - [109] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live. Hotfix is live btw TROLL FACE (If you didn't know already). When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 506	Posted - 2015.10.09 20:03:00 - [110] - Quote Haven't checked out the new update yet but it seems like the tactical sniper will benefit the most from the new shields with the calmando getting a better defense against the anti sniper brigade, meanwhile I now suspect that the charge rifle has reached a point of utter uselessness particularly against shield tankers with a three round clip and a charge up time I doubt that you will be able to kill them with it at all, unless they stand still long enough to achieve a headshot with every first shot. the other rifles will also be affected but I doubt as strongly given their fire rate and that a sniper can always chose to avoid the harder targets if needs be.

Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 266	Posted - 2015.10.11 04:19:00 - [111] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour. The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live. Hotfix is live btw TROLL FACE (If you didn't know already). Yeah I didn't till I read another thread. Thanks lol. Busy with being an adult in real life. I see you coming from a mile away.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 266	Posted - 2015.10.11 04:24:00 - [112] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Haven't checked out the new update yet but it seems like the tactical sniper will benefit the most from the new shields with the calmando getting a better defense against the anti sniper brigade, meanwhile I now suspect that the charge rifle has reached a point of utter uselessness particularly against shield tankers with a three round clip and a charge up time I doubt that you will be able to kill them with it at all, unless they stand still long enough to achieve a headshot with every first shot. the other rifles will also be affected but I doubt as strongly given their fire rate and that a sniper can always chose to avoid the harder targets if needs be. Being a Charged SR user, I really want to get on and test this, but I'm on a sabatical from gaming till finish one of my certifications. Such is life. Someone else can probably do it and report their experiences on Aeon's CPM Shield Tanking and SR's thread. I see you coming from a mile away.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 14:20:00 - [113] - Quote One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
cronopio feju Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 216	Posted - 2015.10.11 23:31:00 - [114] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. The ability to choose a specific range of optimal damage please, even if we need to sacrifice the ammo, please Si el primer botón que usas en una partida no es "flecha arriba" lo estás haciendo mal... -TheAmazing FlyingPig
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.12 04:57:00 - [115] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.12 08:22:00 - [116] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. Hit me up on Skype tomorrow, bring your sniper bros, we'll hash out ideas. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 223	Posted - 2015.10.12 12:21:00 - [117] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. Solid idea, but does nothing to fix the current SR has even killing armour players. I think this new laser variant would be better at killing armour than the sr. I'd rather see all in game assets fixed before introducing new content. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 223	Posted - 2015.10.12 12:35:00 - [118] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 267	Posted - 2015.10.14 13:53:00 - [119] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight. completely agree on CSR and how it has been affected. the reload mainly from having 2 less bullets per clip makes it obsolete considering you have to factor in charge time. heavies took 4 body shots to kill regardless if not a head shot and a follow-up. the other guns seem to be in the right place though in terms of mechanics. most people agree that the SR damages should scale better also. so much could be accomplished for the betterment of gameplay for everyone if they actually listened to sniper proposals from the guys who actually snipe a majority of the their gameplay. not to sound bitter, but it's like getting intel from the source lol but unbiased. we've more than showcased many ways that this can be done without destroying balance, but rather, promote it in our feedback. that's also utilizing available assets. anyway, still good to see you chime in once in a while Symbs. To Aeon: I know that nothing is guaranteed, ahd you don't mean to get our hopes up, but proper scaling of SR damage relative to the Thales, redline distance/tweaks, and some range reversion will go a long way to promote balance and making this weapon/role more effective on the battlefield imo. I see you coming from a mile away.
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 17:42:00 - [120] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. The normal laser rifle already tends to shut down field sniping unless the map is huge, having even more longer range weapons would just make this even worse (to say nothing of how strong lasers are if used properly already). How would yet another laser rifle be balanced in any way considering the massive disadvantages you get using a sniper rifle already? If this new rifle had the mechanics of the current laser rifle it would be absolutely insane unless the dps was so low as to make it useless anyway.

Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 407	Posted - 2015.10.14 17:56:00 - [121] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Just curious as prior to hotfix foxfour, many of the SR shortcomings were brought to current CPMs attention. Some of these issues were even brought up in Rat's stickied locked thread about what we wanted to see in the next hotfix. Now we se alot of great balancing points that may be included in foxfour hotfix, but the sniper rifle was not mentioned. Up to this point the only thing ever improved with the SR since I started playing was the headshot multiplier. That was a bandaid fix and did not enough to fix the many ailments that a sniper has to deal with. I want to know is the SR and sniping even a possibility to be apart of the next hotfix? What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? y do u cry so much? just git better. don't be a cowardly sniper skrub in the 1st place and ull be good. the real fights happen up close..... My YouTube Channel
Avallo Kantor 923	Posted - 2015.10.14 20:04:00 - [122] - Quote How possible is it to create 'adder' effects to weapons? In other words, is it possible for a gun to have an effect on it's target OTHER than just dealing damage. A few ideas if that was possible was to have Snipers 'sap' those that they hit, draining stamina. (Basically the idea is to use snipers to pin down targets allowing for easier follow up shots or on map aid to finish the job) Another idea is to have the Sniper cause an additional delay on recharge to shields meaning they can get off more shots before recharge takes effect. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.14 20:47:00 - [123] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. The normal laser rifle already tends to shut down field sniping unless the map is huge, having even more longer range weapons would just make this even worse (to say nothing of how strong lasers are if used properly already). How would yet another laser rifle be balanced in any way considering the massive disadvantages you get using a sniper rifle already? If this new rifle had the mechanics of the current laser rifle it would be absolutely insane unless the dps was so low as to make it useless anyway. Probably for the best then, honestly. Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only choice of weapon outside of 100m ranges. Just as well, Laser Rifle's optimal is 55m-104m. We need some variety and I think having a Laser Rifle that extends from traditional rifle ranges to just underneath maximum sniper rifle ranges is a good mix-up. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Avallo Kantor 923	Posted - 2015.10.14 20:51:00 - [124] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. The normal laser rifle already tends to shut down field sniping unless the map is huge, having even more longer range weapons would just make this even worse (to say nothing of how strong lasers are if used properly already). How would yet another laser rifle be balanced in any way considering the massive disadvantages you get using a sniper rifle already? If this new rifle had the mechanics of the current laser rifle it would be absolutely insane unless the dps was so low as to make it useless anyway. Probably for the best then, honestly. Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only choice of weapon outside of 100m ranges. Just as well, Laser Rifle's optimal is 55m-104m. We need some variety and I think having a Laser Rifle that extends from traditional rifle ranges to just underneath maximum sniper rifle ranges is a good mix-up. Would it have any other tradeoffs other than just a different optimal? Also, so that it's 'easier' to tell this variant apart, could it have its own laser color? "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.14 20:53:00 - [125] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone: - More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry - An anti-shield 'sniper rifle' - Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not. The normal laser rifle already tends to shut down field sniping unless the map is huge, having even more longer range weapons would just make this even worse (to say nothing of how strong lasers are if used properly already). How would yet another laser rifle be balanced in any way considering the massive disadvantages you get using a sniper rifle already? If this new rifle had the mechanics of the current laser rifle it would be absolutely insane unless the dps was so low as to make it useless anyway. Probably for the best then, honestly. Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only choice of weapon outside of 100m ranges. Just as well, Laser Rifle's optimal is 55m-104m. We need some variety and I think having a Laser Rifle that extends from traditional rifle ranges to just underneath maximum sniper rifle ranges is a good mix-up. Would it have any other tradeoffs other than just a different optimal? Also, so that it's 'easier' to tell this variant apart, could it have its own laser color? Does it really need any other tradeoffs when it's magazine capacity is total **** and the overheat on it seizes the weapon at just over half of that mag? Lol Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 326	Posted - 2015.10.14 20:57:00 - [126] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight. completely agree on CSR and how it has been affected. the reload mainly from having 2 less bullets per clip makes it obsolete considering you have to factor in charge time. heavies took 4 body shots to kill regardless if not a head shot and a follow-up. the other guns seem to be in the right place though in terms of mechanics. most people agree that the SR damages should scale better also. so much could be accomplished for the betterment of gameplay for everyone if they actually listened to sniper proposals from the guys who actually snipe a majority of the their gameplay. not to sound bitter, but it's like getting intel from the source lol but unbiased. we've more than showcased many ways that this can be done without destroying balance, but rather, promote it in our feedback. that's also utilizing available assets. anyway, still good to see you chime in once in a while Symbs. To Aeon: I know that nothing is guaranteed, ahd you don't mean to get our hopes up, but proper scaling of SR damage relative to the Thales, redline distance/tweaks, and some range reversion will go a long way to promote balance and making this weapon/role more effective on the battlefield imo. Not sure everyone or even the majority think anything is wrong with the SR as it is. Most people, in fact, seem to think they are a area best left alone. A good sniper has no trouble producing results, and most players are not happy with OHKS from redline campers. So I am not seeing this ground swell of enthusiasm to fix the SR when its not broken. All I see is increase my range and damage as desired fixes from marine recon wannabes. How about Fixing it so the SR can't fire from the redline? I'm in favor of greater damage then, but I'm sorry most players seem to agree they do not add an enjoyable element to the game and making them better for redline camping will not change that option. You can't hack a point while sniping, and most maps are not even good for using the SR. Those maps that are good for sniping are also great for other mid to long range rifles to excel, but its difficult for those guns to have a chance to shine in those open maps if the SR OHKs everything that moves. Just saying they work great now, work on your aim and realize like ALL OTHER GUNS they have a time and place to be used and require you to pick you targets. Wanting the sniper to be effective against all suits is the same as asking for any other weapon to effective against all suits. Its myopic and when you think about it unreasonable.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 268	Posted - 2015.10.14 21:44:00 - [127] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight. completely agree on CSR and how it has been affected. the reload mainly from having 2 less bullets per clip makes it obsolete considering you have to factor in charge time. heavies took 4 body shots to kill regardless if not a head shot and a follow-up. the other guns seem to be in the right place though in terms of mechanics. most people agree that the SR damages should scale better also. so much could be accomplished for the betterment of gameplay for everyone if they actually listened to sniper proposals from the guys who actually snipe a majority of the their gameplay. not to sound bitter, but it's like getting intel from the source lol but unbiased. we've more than showcased many ways that this can be done without destroying balance, but rather, promote it in our feedback. that's also utilizing available assets. anyway, still good to see you chime in once in a while Symbs. To Aeon: I know that nothing is guaranteed, ahd you don't mean to get our hopes up, but proper scaling of SR damage relative to the Thales, redline distance/tweaks, and some range reversion will go a long way to promote balance and making this weapon/role more effective on the battlefield imo. Not sure everyone or even the majority think anything is wrong with the SR as it is. Most people, in fact, seem to think they are a area best left alone. A good sniper has no trouble producing results, and most players are not happy with OHKS from redline campers. So I am not seeing this ground swell of enthusiasm to fix the SR when its not broken. All I see is increase my range and damage as desired fixes from marine recon wannabes. How about Fixing it so the SR can't fire from the redline? I'm in favor of greater damage then, but I'm sorry most players seem to agree they do not add an enjoyable element to the game and making them better for redline camping will not change that option. You can't hack a point while sniping, and most maps are not even good for using the SR. Those maps that are good for sniping are also great for other mid to long range rifles to excel, but its difficult for those guns to have a chance to shine in those open maps if the SR OHKs everything that moves. Just saying they work great now, work on your aim and realize like ALL OTHER GUNS they have a time and place to be used and require you to pick you targets. Wanting the sniper to be effective against all suits is the same as asking for any other weapon to effective against all suits. Its myopic and when you think about it unreasonable. you obviously can't read well if you really just went and underlined that one phrase in my paragraph of feedback yet negated everything else that was mentioned that COMPLETELY addresses your concerns in terms of sniper damage progression and the redline. also, no one asked for them to be effective against every suit in the game? it just becomes even more of a balancing point when shield regen just got a huge buff, our damage profile was changed to only affect armor to be in line with race/lore a few builds back, and SR damage is no where in line with the Thales in terms of progression. if just that last point was implemented things would be balanced. SR will never OHK anything that moves cause not every shot is a head shot. also, the last time i checked, you can use Assault weapons anywhere and anytime. Assaults are so one-sided, i swear. I see you coming from a mile away.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.15 12:44:00 - [128] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: you obviously can't read well if you really just went and underlined that one phrase in my paragraph of feedback yet negated everything else that was mentioned that COMPLETELY addresses your concerns in terms of sniper damage progression and the redline. also, no one asked for them to be effective against every suit in the game? it just becomes even more of a balancing point when shield regen just got a huge buff, our damage profile was changed to only affect armor to be in line with race/lore a few builds back, and SR damage is no where in line with the Thales in terms of progression. if just that last point was implemented things would be balanced. SR will never OHK anything that moves cause not every shot is a head shot. also, the last time i checked, you can use Assault weapons anywhere and anytime. Assaults are so one-sided, i swear. Assault Sniper Rifle - shoots a 10 round burst with no recoil, each round doing 1000 damage Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Shart Machine Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:05:00 - [129] - Quote Why not allow one hit kill for sniper vs sniper? Headshots only, but only on players with a SR. With this, the snipers that are out there are given a choice: damp up to make it harder to be scanned, or tank up to avoid bodyshots but get lit up by scans. This way, the redlined tank can't pad their kd tp the moon with little to no chance of dying. You shouldn't be forced to spec into a situational weapon up to proto just to counter somebody that can't be killed with any other reasonable means. It's just a thought to alleviate the lack of sniper counterplay without heavy skill investment.
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:54:00 - [130] - Quote Shart Machine wrote: Why not allow one hit kill for sniper vs sniper? Headshots only, but only on players with a SR. With this, the snipers that are out there are given a choice: damp up to make it harder to be scanned, or tank up to avoid bodyshots but get lit up by scans. This way, the redlined tank can't pad their kd tp the moon with little to no chance of dying. You shouldn't be forced to spec into a situational weapon up to proto just to counter somebody that can't be killed with any other reasonable means. It's just a thought to alleviate the lack of sniper counterplay without heavy skill investment. This already exists in the current mechanics. You can tank EWAR for subtlety or tank HP for survivability, either way the sniper rifle basically guarantees a headshot to a counter sniper due to sway mechanics (** hit detection notwithstanding). Aeon Amadi wrote:** Probably for the best then, honestly. Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only choice of weapon outside of 100m ranges. Just as well, Laser Rifle's optimal is 55m-104m. We need some variety and I think having a Laser Rifle that extends from traditional rifle ranges to just underneath maximum sniper rifle ranges is a good mix-up. I'd be fine with a rifle in these ranges, but laser rifle mechanics would make it too strong (opinions!), something else might be perfectly fine, particularly if the sway mechanics for the SR were toned down so that you didnt have 3-5 second delays before firing accurate shots. The more competition the sniper rifle has at closer ranges, the more help it needs to make it viable outside of the redline.

Shart Machine Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:00 - [131] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: This already exists in the current mechanics. You can tank EWAR for subtlety or tank HP for survivability, either way the sniper rifle basically guarantees a headshot to a counter sniper due to sway mechanics (**** hit detection notwithstanding). The guaranteed headshot isn't the point, its that if you tank up you won't die to standard and even advanced counters, making it impossible for newer players to face a sniping tank and do anything but pester them, rendering their only countermeasure useless.
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:51:00 - [132] - Quote Shart Machine wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: This already exists in the current mechanics. You can tank EWAR for subtlety or tank HP for survivability, either way the sniper rifle basically guarantees a headshot to a counter sniper due to sway mechanics (**** hit detection notwithstanding). The guaranteed headshot isn't the point, its that if you tank up you won't die to standard and even advanced counters, making it impossible for newer players to face a sniping tank and do anything but pester them, rendering their only countermeasure useless. Well I dont control CCP, if I did there would be STD/ADV charge rifles (and proto breach scrambler pistols, and etc etc)
Shart Machine Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:11:00 - [133] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Well I dont control CCP, if I did there would be STD/ADV charge rifles (and proto breach scrambler pistols, and etc etc) I understand man, I was just trying to defend my point. It's frustrating to have to spec up a skill tree that far to counter somebody and that's the only way to do it.
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:30:00 - [134] - Quote Shart Machine wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Well I dont control CCP, if I did there would be STD/ADV charge rifles (and proto breach scrambler pistols, and etc etc) I understand man, I was just trying to defend my point. It's frustrating to have to spec up a skill tree that far to counter somebody and that's the only way to do it. Well I wouldnt say its the only way, you can always dropship on his head, or use a rail tank or forge gun, and even if you cant one shot kill him with a sniper rifle pecking at him will cause him to move and stop sniping, etc.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 340	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:34:00 - [135] - Quote Obviously you can't communicate your ideas very well then. Because all that post calls for over and over is a power increase in the SR. You use the word balance, but only ask for additional buffs to the SR. Which, as I underlined to accentuate, is not to the betterment of all players. The SR kills most assaults in 1 or 2 shots on a dedicated suit. Also the shield regen should not be a factor for the SR. If you can't land two shots in four seconds you don't really need to be using the gun. The first shot should put them down to below half life, and the second should finish them even if they regen for 2 seconds. In truth the SR usually kills most suits on the field that are not heavies in one shot. You don't always need to aim for the full health guys either. Every loyalty Apex I have can be OHK by a proto sniper. So, I still don't see where the lack of balance is and most seem to agree. Again all I see is another guy QQ on the forums because he wants to redline camp and OHK guys. That's not balance. Besides, right now I have no issue killing people with the SR, so I am not sure why you would have an issue. Anecdotally speaking it is a great weapon in balance. You can't use it every game because not every map is ideal for it, so you need to understand that concept. Much like the MD or Swarms it is a particular solution to a particular problem...its not a general purpose K/D padding machine. So the best suggestions I could give you are work on your aim if the SR feels weak to you, or even better get the hell out of the redline and help your team flip an objective. Because right now the SR needs neither damage nor range buffs to do its job in competent hands like any other weapon.
Shart Machine Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:57:00 - [136] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Obviously you can't communicate your ideas very well then. Because all that post calls for over and over is a power increase in the SR. You use the word balance, but only ask for additional buffs to the SR. Which, as I underlined to accentuate, is not to the betterment of all players. The SR kills most assaults in 1 or 2 shots on a dedicated suit. Also the shield regen should not be a factor for the SR. If you can't land two shots in four seconds you don't really need to be using the gun. The first shot should put them down to below half life, and the second should finish them even if they regen for 2 seconds. In truth the SR usually kills most suits on the field that are not heavies in one shot. You don't always need to aim for the full health guys either. Every loyalty Apex I have can be OHK by a proto sniper. So, I still don't see where the lack of balance is and most seem to agree. Again all I see is another guy QQ on the forums because he wants to redline camp and OHK guys. That's not balance. Besides, right now I have no issue killing people with the SR, so I am not sure why you would have an issue. Anecdotally speaking it is a great weapon in balance. You can't use it every game because not every map is ideal for it, so you need to understand that concept. Much like the MD or Swarms it is a particular solution to a particular problem...its not a general purpose K/D padding machine. So the best suggestions I could give you are work on your aim if the SR feels weak to you, or even better get the hell out of the redline and help your team flip an objective. Because right now the SR needs neither damage nor range buffs to do its job in competent hands like any other weapon. At least quote who you are talking to, because right now it looks like you are assuming quite a bit. If that's the case, then you couldn't be more wrong. Edited grammar
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 340	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:00:00 - [137] - Quote Shart Machine wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Obviously you can't communicate your ideas very well then. Because all that post calls for over and over is a power increase in the SR. You use the word balance, but only ask for additional buffs to the SR. Which, as I underlined to accentuate, is not to the betterment of all players. The SR kills most assaults in 1 or 2 shots on a dedicated suit. Also the shield regen should not be a factor for the SR. If you can't land two shots in four seconds you don't really need to be using the gun. The first shot should put them down to below half life, and the second should finish them even if they regen for 2 seconds. In truth the SR usually kills most suits on the field that are not heavies in one shot. You don't always need to aim for the full health guys either. Every loyalty Apex I have can be OHK by a proto sniper. So, I still don't see where the lack of balance is and most seem to agree. Again all I see is another guy QQ on the forums because he wants to redline camp and OHK guys. That's not balance. Besides, right now I have no issue killing people with the SR, so I am not sure why you would have an issue. Anecdotally speaking it is a great weapon in balance. You can't use it every game because not every map is ideal for it, so you need to understand that concept. Much like the MD or Swarms it is a particular solution to a particular problem...its not a general purpose K/D padding machine. So the best suggestions I could give you are work on your aim if the SR feels weak to you, or even better get the hell out of the redline and help your team flip an objective. Because right now the SR needs neither damage nor range buffs to do its job in competent hands like any other weapon. At least quote who you are talking to, because right now it looks like you are assuming quite a bit. If that's the case, then you couldn't be more wrong. Edited grammar For some reason it dropped skylines quote...
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 269	Posted - 2015.10.16 13:15:00 - [138] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: snip you just keep proving that you're a complete idiot. the feedback still remains against redline camping and OHKs in support for those buffs by tweaking in-game assets i.e. maps, yet you keep saying the opposite cause it's the default argument. way to be original kid. like we haven't heard before. claps im not even gonna argue. The different racial Assault rifles can be used anywhere, heavies usually defend a point in competitive play but in pubs can roam between objectives, SG scout can go anywhere. yes, we get that on indoor specific maps like the research facility and others, you can't snipe, but all the others you should be able to. also, you can't compare this weapon to swarm launchers cause that's specific to anti-vehicle not infantry vs. infantry. plus if you need evidence of the MD being used anywhere you can check out one of Sax's videos just to give you proof it can be used anywhere. what a bunch of bs seriously. also, before i edited my post, i said ive killed suits back to back, even fully queue synced squads carrying my team, solo i might add, before the nerfs, so i don't think i need to work on my aim. I almost pulled a 30-0 bomb just sniping - no OB - in an -old- AE PC and would've had it not been for the two sniper teammates competing against me for kills - who only had 8 and 7 kills btw. nice try though, kid. go check out my imgur if you need proof/my resume. im done. I see you coming from a mile away.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 509	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:31:00 - [139] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: In truth the SR usually kills most suits on the field that are not heavies in one shot. You don't always need to aim for the full health guys either. Every loyalty Apex I have can be OHK by a proto sniper. So, I still don't see where the lack of balance is and most seem to agree. Again all I see is another guy QQ on the forums because he wants to redline camp and OHK guys. . Besides, right now I have no issue killing people with the SR, so I am not sure why you would have an issue. Anecdotally speaking it is a great weapon in balance. You can't use it every game because not every map is ideal for it, so you need to understand that concept. Much like the MD or Swarms it is a particular solution to a particular problem...its not a general purpose K/D padding machine. So the best suggestions I could give you are work on your aim if the SR feels weak to you, or even better get the hell out of the redline and help your team flip an objective. Because right now the SR needs neither damage nor range buffs to do its job in competent hands like any other weapon. Before I really start here let me just say that my personal record in a single round with a charge rifle was 56-0 back before the range change (so going back a little way) and I took part in the event to name an sr. which symb won and I was not even second in. symbioticforks who also agrees with the general consensus on sniper rifles here btw. my point there is I can safely say that whilst I don't believe myself to be the best dust sniper I am certainly not a player who has issues with aiming. (side note: the round in question was won on clones so I can also say that I was useful to the team) and yes the sniper rifles are weak comparatively. so your argument is that a fully skilled out sniper using a proto variant can ohk a bpo suit? so its now expected that in order to be useful a player needs to take proto into every pub round in order to be able to kill almost all suits whilst still being limited to only killing and also being vulnerable to anybody that can be bothered to sort out their sniper issues? so which other weapons are almost useless until you reach proto levels then? - this is where the unbalance is. do you not think then that this doesn't leave much space to go to for use in say.. a pc battle where everybody takes out their best gear? -this is where there is an unbalance could you also clarify for me, exactly what is this particular problem that you see a sniper the only use for? (only one use in your opinion but still don't see an unbalance..) also can you honestly say that the person you are referring to only ever snipes from the redline? this part of your argument sounds an awful lot like your "go to" response to snipers in general. as for all snipers in the redline being scrubs. I suggest that you try to play as many maps as a sniper as you can for two weeks without using the red line areas or mccs at all in any of them, see how many rounds you can make a genuine contribution to using your sniper rifle only. but i'll pre warn you- I highly doubt you'll find it fun. a real issue in dust is positioning with many of the maps being bowl shaped or having no alternative vantages. (again if you don't believe me,try it for an extended period) (the requirement to use a "vantage point" another unbalance?) as you also point out there aren't any real opportunities for a sniper to be useful at taking or holding an objective. - in a taking or holding an objective based game? (swarm launchers aside all other weapons can be used for this And finally I personally have mentioned that snipers need more application rather than damage etc, although I will definitely say they needed a base damage boost rather than a headshot boost initially anyway. the reason I believe they went with a headshot multiplier in a game where hit detection is poor in the first place was to help counter snipers with minimal help to active snipers. -who are the usually stationary targets? even at the times that we do decide to move around the map we are left with the tactical rifles which have sway delays, the need to crouch, 5 rounds in a clip etc to use against the other weapons in this game. and if you really believe that you can use the range advantage over the rail/laser rifles whilst on foot then you are dreaming. I'm sorry but the fact is that sniper rifles are not really balanced in this game, there are range, distance ,hit detection, application and mobility issues.
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:10:00 - [140] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: just git better. don't be a cowardly sniper skrub in the 1st place and ull be good. the real fights happen up close..... THIS.. makes up a large portion of the player base. THIS.. has been detrimental to snipers since launch. Mountain Dew and Doritos have laid claim on his soul. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.

Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:26:00 - [141] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. Hit me up on Skype tomorrow, bring your sniper bros, we'll hash out ideas. I probably checked back too late. I apologize. There's likely no meaningful change they could make to the game at this point to get me to open my wallet to CCP again. (aside from a PC port which is the only reason I came back for the officer weapons contest, in hopes I would be playing this game for years to come) However as I recall you were there for the Red Wedding of Dust 514. I hope CCP is paying for your trip to Iceland this time around. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 518	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:44:00 - [142] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Not sure everyone or even the majority think anything is wrong with the SR as it is. Most people, in fact, seem to think they are a area best left alone. A good sniper has no trouble producing results, and most players are not happy with OHKS from redline campers. So I am not seeing this ground swell of enthusiasm to fix the SR when its not broken. All I see is increase my range and damage as desired fixes from marine recon wannabes. How about Fixing it so the SR can't fire from the redline? I'm in favor of greater damage then, but I'm sorry most players seem to agree they do not add an enjoyable element to the game and making them better for redline camping will not change that option. You can't hack a point while sniping, and most maps are not even good for using the SR. Those maps that are good for sniping are also great for other mid to long range rifles to excel, but its difficult for those guns to have a chance to shine in those open maps if the SR OHKs everything that moves. Just saying they work great now, work on your aim and realize like ALL OTHER GUNS they have a time and place to be used and require you to pick you targets. Wanting the sniper to be effective against all suits is the same as asking for any other weapon to effective against all suits. Its myopic and when you think about it unreasonable. The only sniper that seems to have any measurable affect is the Thale's TAR-07, which is way out of line from the other Vanilla Variant Sniper Rifles. It and the charge (by extension the Symb's), in my opinion, are the only effective sniper rifles. Take a look at the damage on the Thale's, and then look at the Ishukone...then compare that percentage peformance increase with that of other Officer Class Weaponry...any change to sniper rifles, whether damage or otherwise will have to address this discrepancy. If sniper's damage where changed from the 'Thales' Down, you end up with the Basic Sniper Rifle dealing nearly 300 Damage...which given the firepower that grenades have, I'm having trouble finding fault with that damage total in a perfect world; however, as Breakin Stuff pointed out, we're not in a perfect world...contrails fail to draw past about 150m, you can only even see a sniper if you hover over them with another sniper are issues in the snipers favor...against the sniper you have unreliably hit detection, lack of vantage points accessible by something other than a dropship, and inertialess movement on infantry side. Hitscan works as both a blessing and a curse for the sniper, so I do not count it as either an advantage or disadvantage here. I personally feel that damage could come up (siginficantly) on sniper rifles, but would rather see them add and reward other utility for the sniper instead, things like intel or suppression would be of great benefit...or a combination of the two...people are too caught up with kills being the only thing someone can do in this game -_- Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Aeon Amadi 13	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:47:00 - [143] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. Hit me up on Skype tomorrow, bring your sniper bros, we'll hash out ideas. I probably checked back too late. I apologize. There's likely no meaningful change they could make to the game at this point to get me to open my wallet to CCP again. (aside from a PC port which is the only reason I came back for the officer weapons contest, in hopes I would be playing this game for years to come) However as I recall you were there for the Red Wedding of Dust 514. I hope CCP is paying for your trip to Iceland this time around. Lol, no. Even if they offered I would probably decline and advocate that money be spent on better things. I want to go this year (2016) but I am having trouble getting the finances together. Even if you don't play the game anymore, you being one of the dedicated snipers of old lends more credence to your feedback than anything I could throw out so I still appreciate any suggestions you'd have to getting this right. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 06:51:00 - [144] - Quote Preface, I haven't played this game in quite some time. Certain constants may have changed quite a bit. The following is how things were and to a large degree how I feel things should be. I recall what balanced looks and feels like. If that's your aim then please read on ahead. Sniper Rifles at the start of the game were well balanced. (except the 750m range) It was important / required that your team had a few snipers to at the very least to counter the enemy teams snipers. It was a needed role. I know right? Can you even imagine that? The formula that was followed for damage was this (or very close to this) The damage chart below assumes Militia vs Militia / Standard vs Standard / Advanced vs Advanced / Prototype vs Prototype. 4 -5 body shots from a tactical SR - to kill a heavy [each shot taking away one fifth of a heavys hp] TANK +1 4 body shots from a standard SR - to kill a heavy [each shot taking away one fourth of a heavys hp TANK+1 3 body shots from a charge SR - to kill a heavy [each shot taking away one third of a heavys hp] TANK +1 3 body shots from a tactical SR - to kill a assault [each shot taking away one third of an assaults hp] TANK +1 2 body shots from a standard SR - to kill a assault [each shot taking away ABOUT HALF of an assaults hp] TANK +1 2 body shots from a charge SR - to kill a assault [each shot taking away MORE THAN HALF of an assaults hp] TANK +1 2 body shots from a tactical SR - to kill any scout [each shot taking away ABOUT HALF of a scouts hp] TANK +1 2 body shots from a standard SR - to kill any scout [first shot taking away MORE THAN HALF of a scouts hp] 1 body shot from a charge SR - to kill any scout. [first shot should kill them outright] TANK +1 The 2 places where I mention "ABOUT HALF" Think like 54-63% of someones hp. The 2 places where I mention "MORE THAN HALF" Think like 69-80% of someones hp. Infantry really liked their damage mods early on, however if you went light on damage mods for additional shield extenders or armor plates all levels of advancement being even, you could effectively add enough hitpoints to your suit to sustain another round of sniper fire. Not every suit against every sniper rifle, but most. (see TANK+1) You cannot counter everything all at the same time, however you do not need to kill a sniper in order to counter one. Sacrificing some aspects of your build to stack hp could greatly reduce your risk of being picked off. However I'm not here to talk about how to counter sniping. This formula is what felt fair. If you got hit by a sniper you had to find cover, thankfully this game provides huge maps and near infinite amounts of cover, compared to the finite amount of elevated sniping locations. Headshots? What should those be like? If the base damage is following the formulas up above. Double damage was appropriate. Meaning against armor that multiplier will be higher, and against shields lower. Most players learned the lesson to never to stand still. Given the framerate and hitbox issues, headshots were a luxury. Something you lead with on a target who doesn't know you're trying to snipe them. The moment they realize they're being targeted however most people flail around like a fish out of water, making headshots much less relevant than body shots. (at that moment) To not increase base damage significantly to combat the increased effective hitpoints of all suits throughout the updates, was pure folly. The fix sniper rifles got in the past was ALL IN on HEADSHOT damage. Which it only needed a slight buff to. CCP adopted the term "precision weapon" to specifically refer to it as a headshot only weapon. As if hitting targets consistently with a SR doesn't already require tons of intuition, patience, and precision. Not sure if you noticed, but the gun doesn't work well as a headshot only weapon, that's never been it's intended use. I say this from experience. You change the weapon completely when you buff headshot damage through the roof and don't address base damage. It's a completely different gun. So of course you're having issues with it. When doing double damage with a headshot, the typical follow up will always be a bodyshot. If that headshot misses and you instead hit their body, your follow up will likely be another bodyshot. You of course look for opportunities where your target stands still in which case you can switch over to attempting a headshot if the next body shot won't finish them off. However, to keep someones shields from regenerating body shots are required. That's kind of a huge deal. I'm just pointing this all out to insist that again, headshots are a luxury. Not the primary mode of engagement sniper rifles. Given, I spent a ton of time actively searching for stationary targets, however those weren't generally quality targets that were winning the match for the enemy team. To kill "GOOD PLAYERS" you need body shots to do meaningful damage. Snipers used to be a good counter to scouts. Then they added cloaking. And now players can jump super high too? Scouts used to be just quick, so hitting them between cover was difficult. Alas, this has been the way of the sniper since launch. Constantly getting indirectly nerfed by everything else getting buffed in one way or another, to address issues, create parity, or counter issues in no way related to sniping. Issues not addressed : Range, Sniping Locations, Reticle, Clip Size, and Fog / Weather effects. Those all factor into having a useful enough weapon to spawn with. TL;DR Make base damage on sniper rifles meaningful. And for headshots double that meaningful damage. Not some all in on headshot monstrosity that makes even the worst player instantly good at counter sniping. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 511	Posted - 2015.10.18 16:16:00 - [145] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Preface, I haven't played this game in quite some time. Certain constants may have changed quite a bit. The following is how things were and to a large degree how I feel things should be. I recall what balanced looks and feels like. If that's your aim then please read on ahead. Issues not addressed : Range, Sniping Locations, Reticle, Clip Size, and Fog / Weather effects. Those all factor into having a useful enough weapon to spawn with. TL;DR Make base damage on sniper rifles meaningful. And for headshots double that meaningful damage. Not some all in on headshot monstrosity that makes even the worst player instantly good at counter sniping. amen. to everything you said symb.
Rinzler XVII Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 378	Posted - 2015.10.18 20:16:00 - [146] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to tank up to resist OHK kills is something I feel should not be removed. Having sniper rifles simply able to instantly eliminate any suit on the field no matter what you fit it for is the kind of thing that will fly like a lead baloon with the vast majority of players. Problem is you get Proto commandos red line sniping with max hp so they then become a mean killing machine with zero drawbacks protected by redline I Fight for the User It's a shame that my user sucks at DUST
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 20:16:00 - [147] - Quote A brief collection of thoughts on Range Reduction and Red Line Snipers. A friend of mine says the thing that ruined sniping in Dust 514 was the reduced range sniper rifles received awhile back. (anything less than 600m) He stated that snipers originally provided a strong but unpredictable influence. That the majority of the player base complaining wanted to essentially ruin a beautiful thing and turn Dust 514's battlefield into Call of Duty. Even after the ranges were reduced I forced myself to make things work. Sniping with each range reduction made it less dynamic, but for someone like myself I still found ways to have fun, although I wouldn't expect most people to be that sadistic. I never had an issue with red line snipers. My friend noted how they made up the majority of my kills. They were far from immune when ranges were closer to 600m. Aside from that, red line sniping was often unproductive. Most red line snipers were averaging 10 kills and one death. Outside of the red line I would average 2-3x that ratio. Thanks to anti-sniper map designs sometimes the best place to snipe was most certainly inside your red line. And if you were bad or new to sniping that was the most intuitive place to start. Once ranges were reduced a majority of red line snipers found themselves immune to the front line snipers like myself. They were simply too far away to kill with my sniper rifle. I could see them still, just not shoot them. The fact that they would still light up, but not be in range was rather infuriating. It was inadvertently another layer of protection given to red line snipers. They too would suffer from shorter ranges, but anyone trying to counter snipe them would have to present themselves openly in order to do so? (and more than likely from a lower elevation) Done. The players who sniped and switched out of sniping, never complained about snipers. You or anyone else ever notice this? Says my friend. They often thought they weren't good at sniping or couldn't figure out how to make a meaningful contribution with such an underwhelming weapon with so few locations to snipe from. It just wasn't fun. So many people just didn't do it.You know what else isn't fun? Getting only 10 kills from your red line. Not killing enough people to influence the outcome of the game. People play the game for different reasons granted. Some people don't play to win. The reward structure in casual matches didn't promote the importance of winning, so non-contributors could easily exist. You can fix base damage, but that won't make the weapon useful. It needs that range, to create options for the player..To perhaps be somewhere less than predictable, and further away than your'e willing to run on foot. Part of stealth for me was being far away and out of immediate danger. If I couldn't be far away I would at least be out of reach or vice versa. Still worried about red line snipers though? Just not sinking in? There are any number of ways to kill an enemy sniper. Most of the deadly (competent) snipers were fielding full prototype when I played, and you could grief them into changing suits by simply killing them once or twice. (back when ISK meant something) I feel that may no longer be the case. -Attack Drop Ships / Drop Ship -Orbital Strike -Suicide Rush -Forge Gun -Rail Tank -Counter Snipe (forget about this one since range reductions, would have been the easiest way to deal with them though) And besides killing the sniper -Use Cover -Stay Mobile -Vehicles -Stay in the City -Cloaking - Stack HP If you think you can run around like Rambo all the time without getting hit by a sniper, no matter where they are the problem lies with you and your play style. I could say quite a bit more on these two topics, but I already feel bad for anyone who bothered to read this. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm LLC 512	Posted - 2015.10.19 18:16:00 - [148] - Quote That's all vary true and to those people who think that its the weapon and not the players that gets the kills here is a recent example of the people that make it easy and probably go on to cry about snipers. my record recently with a kali tac sniper rifle was 32-0 from less than 200m away. do I think that the kali is a good weapon? well balanced for running around with? No, not at all. so how did I get this result? because the red berries were going to the edge of the building above an objective and staying still whilst they aimed down at the defenders, allowing me time to align headshots again and again. most were wearing assault suits and only one of them even bothered to shoot back at me. my point here is that if you act like a lemming don't expect it to end well. on the other hand if you follow symbs advice, and don't act predictably then you will be bloody hard to hit and probably wont die very often to snipers anyway. realistically there will be easier targets to aim at. as for the range reduction/red line points again I agree and tried to actually point this out before the ranges were reduced... if the red line is safety and counter sniping is the best way to kill a sniper and some players don't want to die, why would they leave the precious red line when they don't even need to worry about counter snipers anymore?
Union118 TH3 STRUGGL3 780	Posted - 2015.10.19 18:47:00 - [149] - Quote I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 288	Posted - 2015.10.19 19:11:00 - [150] - Quote Union118 wrote: I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still. Officer shouldn't be taken into account when we're talking about all the other SR's and their range issue's Symb's is right on the money on this, and if you believe that sniping is in a remotely "good spot", then you clearly enjoy sitting in the redline with no one to counter snipe you or take you out, since the game is now relegated to "each team get's their free to use 100% counter snipe free side", thus the reason your using a Thales in the first place. Sniper rifles have been receiving nerf after nerf and overtime like Symbs has said, it's become one giant COD game thats free to play, just laggier and incomplete. Despite it being a "Tactical" shooter, the only tactics I see are A. bum rush the enemy with a rifle without any allies being near you and generally walking by yourself, or B jump super high and use explosives, that's not tactic's that's COD. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.

Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 275	Posted - 2015.10.19 19:34:00 - [151] - Quote Union118 wrote: I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still. you used "the sniper" rifle (im going to assume you mean all of them) being in a good spot then used the Thales as an example. that doesn't fly cause that's an Officer weapon used for comparison. In that same regard, i could say Balacs are in a good spot, so are Aldins, Luis, Alex, Bons, Nothis, Kalante's, etc. i agree with you though, Officer weapons are in a good spot. they're so good that, now more than ever, they are being abused in public matches since player trading and warbarges were implemented and are a problem the CPM want to address. we're talking about proto and below though and those SRs are not in a good place in terms of damage progression. I see you coming from a mile away.
Samantha Hunyz PIanet Express Damage LLC 231	Posted - 2015.10.19 23:22:00 - [152] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: A brief collection of thoughts on Range Reduction and Red Line Snipers. -snipe- I have to totally agree on this. When I started playing this game, all I wanted to do was snipe. I would always be on the map usually in an elevated position, keeping the bulk of the blue dots between myself and the reds. On a bad match I would get 15 kills, 15 assists. Any time a squad member would call out a redline sniper, I didn't even have to move to dispatch them. 1500wps and 20+ kills, 1-5 deaths per match was about my average using this technique. Since the range, map, and mood nerf, It seems that the only snipers affected were the on the map snipers. Redline snipers are still present. The difference is on the map snipers have to choose to move closer to multiple reds to deal with one redline sniper, or stand back and leave em alone. I play this game like chess. I am the queen, and the blueberryies are my pawns shielding me. Therefore I am not moving forward to die instantly to a hail of fire to try to take out one guy. I die enough as is. I used to assign my own threat levels to locations depending on red and blue positioning, elevation, and other elements to figure out were I needed to be. I would wager high risk high reward locations when my team was pushing hard on the enemy. I'd fall back to lower, low reward locations when my team gave up or was simply outclassed. My best games were when both sides came to fight and were both relentless. Sure I'd die more trying to get into more aggressive locations to better aid my team and to try and prevent my blueberries from being flanked. Lol, I almost forgot about that part of sniping. Slowing or denying players from pulling off flank maneuvers. The range nerf stopped that flat out. At this point, even if range was reintroduced, and damage was normalized it still would not give sniping back those said roles. All the maps and sockets post 1.4 were completely anti-sniper made. Big complexes high walls, little to no high ground to see in except for very small pockets of possible opportunity if fighting was done in specific location. Sniping used to have a few roles, but in game design and decisions made the SR obsolete. The main factors of the SR no longer having any are due to the range reduction, poor socket design, placing towers in front of elevated positions to block sniper locations, many hp increases, trying to balance sniping because of redline sniping (even though they were puppychow for big dog snipers). TL;DR The old SR role before nerfs were killing, suppression, assisting in damaging enemy, counter-sniping, and reducing flanking enemies. Post nerfs, lol FU HTFU get gud, sumtin sumtin redline trololololo. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz PIanet Express Damage LLC 231	Posted - 2015.10.19 23:28:00 - [153] - Quote Union118 wrote: I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still. Switching to a thale from a supply depot to kill a lone sniper, from the one spot they could possibly be on the map, while they are stationary with a officer weapon does not make a sniper. If you are using the Thale, kick and sway are not an issue. Nothing is an issue at that point. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Samantha Hunyz PIanet Express Damage LLC 231	Posted - 2015.10.20 01:29:00 - [154] - Quote At this point on this topic, I feel as though we have answered the topic of this discussion and have transformed it into something it was not meant to be. I feel as though the off topic parts were actually beneficial to an open dialogue about sniping issues and am grateful that Symbioticforks spoke up in this thread. I am truly grateful that two CPM members came into this discussion and answered honestly. Aeon Amadi I thank you for keeping us snipers in mind and trying to address the main topic of this post. Breakin Stuff, I admire your honesty and respect your opinion and am sorry if I got a little aggressive. Without you this topic would not have grew into the flower that bloomed before us. The main question of this topic was : Samantha Hunyz wrote: What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them? I feel as though this was answered awhile back. This thread just grew in a positive way, but I feel this topic is closed. The CPM spoke, and show that they are trying. I believe that CCP developers are watching as well and care about snipings current state. Unless Rattati or other developers want to chime in, any CPM, or Symbioticforks, I suggest we take what we discussed and start a new topic. P.S. Breakin Stuff at least cares enough about this game to pitch in and let us know our concerns are being heard. There are alot of other CPMs that did not speak up here, or much on any topic....ever. Mess with Aeon or Breakin, and see my signature to conclude the results. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.22 04:30:00 - [155] - Quote Union118 wrote: I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still. Two things stick out with this.. "and I'm using a Thale" - officer gear should be better than "the standard" not the baseline for a sniper rifle should be doing. "bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot" - what? You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.22 04:50:00 - [156] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: A brief collection of thoughts on Range Reduction and Red Line Snipers. -snipe- I have to totally agree on this. When I started playing this game, all I wanted to do was snipe. I would always be on the map usually in an elevated position, keeping the bulk of the blue dots between myself and the reds. On a bad match I would get 15 kills, 15 assists. Any time a squad member would call out a redline sniper, I didn't even have to move to dispatch them. 1500wps and 20+ kills, 1-5 deaths per match was about my average using this technique. Since the range, map, and mood nerf, It seems that the only snipers affected were the on the map snipers. Redline snipers are still present. The difference is on the map snipers have to choose to move closer to multiple reds to deal with one redline sniper, or stand back and leave em alone. I play this game like chess. I am the queen, and the blueberryies are my pawns shielding me. Therefore I am not moving forward to die instantly to a hail of fire to try to take out one guy. I die enough as is. I used to assign my own threat levels to locations depending on red and blue positioning, elevation, and other elements to figure out were I needed to be. I would wager high risk high reward locations when my team was pushing hard on the enemy. I'd fall back to lower, low reward locations when my team gave up or was simply outclassed. My best games were when both sides came to fight and were both relentless. Sure I'd die more trying to get into more aggressive locations to better aid my team and to try and prevent my blueberries from being flanked. Lol, I almost forgot about that part of sniping. Slowing or denying players from pulling off flank maneuvers. The range nerf stopped that flat out. At this point, even if range was reintroduced, and damage was normalized it still would not give sniping back those said roles. All the maps and sockets post 1.4 were completely anti-sniper made. Big complexes high walls, little to no high ground to see in except for very small pockets of possible opportunity if fighting was done in specific location. Sniping used to have a few roles, but in game design and decisions made the SR obsolete. The main factors of the SR no longer having any are due to the range reduction, poor socket design, placing towers in front of elevated positions to block sniper locations, many hp increases, trying to balance sniping because of redline sniping (even though they were puppychow for big dog snipers). TL;DR The old SR role before nerfs were killing, suppression, assisting in damaging enemy, counter-sniping, and reducing flanking enemies. Post nerfs, lol FU HTFU get gud, sumtin sumtin redline trololololo. This was a good read. I've never bothered to outline all the roles sniper filled. Progressively with one change or another those roles were removed. New players coming to Dust 514 have no idea, other than the weapon isn't worth dedicating yourself to it. Unlike.. Remote Explosives? (that's just too funny to me) People were dedicated to those when they were strictly Utility, I don't dare begin to imagine the current game state.. Sorry to keep bumping, I'll stop posting unless it's some rant to shed insight. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 276	Posted - 2015.10.22 12:15:00 - [157] - Quote Just some thoughts from a non-SR user. This is all based on what I would expect to be facing as a target. Do the SRs in Dust still have that weird sway scheme where they sway a bunch initially after scoping-in, but settle to dead still after a few seconds and stay dead still? If so, that is probably the cause of a lot of the weapons nerfs. You can't have an accurate, dead still weapon that can kill from long distance. It'd be OP as hell. What you can have is an accurate-but-slightly-swaying weapon that can kill from long distance. The little bit of scope sway adds a lot more skill - through timing and reaction speed - to its use. So if there was a small amount of sway constantly happening, headshots should be OHKs on any suit. If the sniper has timed their shot well enough through the sway of the scope and my movement to land a headshot, they deserve the kill. If they mess up a little and get a bodyshot, it should only take one follow up shot to get the kill. Unfortunately with the current difference in HP that a low SP/STD wearing player and a max SP/PRO wearing player can field... well it's hard to balance anything around shots-to-kill. As for distance, I think if the sniper can line me up and hit me through a 10x scope they should be able to kill me. The weapon should be doing it's full damage far beyond it's optics range (unless they have 20x scopes or something silly like that?) If these (pretty reasonable) changes happen to the SR and everyone starts sniping, it's likely a map design problem rather than a weapon design problem. Something is killing new player retention.
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.23 20:58:00 - [158] - Quote Proto should be destroying Militia. That's balanced. (character progression) If you want to run around in a plastic trash bag and call it a suit. You will be punished. If not by the sniper, by anyone else with a weapon.Time to kill against militia should be dramatically less. It takes almost no time to get into advanced level suits. It takes even less time to buy aurum suits. Trying to save money by running around in Militia when your enemy has chosen to risk Prototype loss will have you at a disadvantage. That's the way it's always been. Constant scope sway wouldn't be good in Dust 514. Sniping has no variable zoom, would make long range shots impossible. If you added in the holding your breath mechanic to steady your aim for a moment, perhaps. Not advocating that at all. That would be yet another complete rework of sniping nobody is asking for. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Gh0st Blade KnightKiller's inc. 53	Posted - 2015.10.23 21:18:00 - [159] - Quote Leave my snipers alone XD I used snipers since Beta and seen all the touches, damage, rate of fire, ranges, and ammo capacity. We now have a render range limit that inhibits counter sniping half the time because the person won't render but can see you. Snipers are fine as is because snipers are counter objective or roof campers. They lack good close quarter combat and any light weapon can out dps a sniper in close range. Red line camping occurs because all the vantage points are by the edge of the map thanks to map designers and then it is too easy to forge gun, snipe, or rail rifle a sniper off of a roof. If snipers weren't the loudest gun in the game that can be tracked by its sound then the close quarter assassinations would be more viable, but there is no stealth to snipers lately because there main spots to snip every map and let's face it anyone with a headset can track where the person is. I'm Casper the friendly teabagger
Gh0st Blade KnightKiller's inc. 53	Posted - 2015.10.23 21:29:00 - [160] - Quote Also friend have you tried and Ex sniper with a cal mando? I can one shot most suits on the field but gal sents with 1100 armor and base shield, amaar sents with their 1200 armor, and cal sents or commandos with 700 shield and 600 armor. I've knocked proto snipers and Thales off of their high horses because sniping takes skill to master. The reason it takes skill is because it is to easy to find the sniper if the sniper pegs you a lot. I always go for the noggin but with current hit detection I blue shield or it's counted as a body shot 3 out of 5 shots. Most times people are sniped is when the person stands still or the person has low HP. I'm Casper the friendly teabagger

Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 279	Posted - 2015.10.27 04:20:00 - [161] - Quote Gh0st Blade wrote: Also friend have you tried and Ex sniper with a cal mando? I can one shot most suits on the field but gal sents with 1100 armor and base shield, amaar sents with their 1200 armor, and cal sents or commandos with 700 shield and 600 armor. I've knocked proto snipers and Thales off of their high horses because sniping takes skill to master. The reason it takes skill is because it is to easy to find the sniper if the sniper pegs you a lot. I always go for the noggin but with current hit detection I blue shield or it's counted as a body shot 3 out of 5 shots. Most times people are sniped is when the person stands still or the person has low HP. most trolly people ever to comment about balance i feel, especially the ones who use the top-tier ones as examples. experimental sniper rifle with calmando is good, sure, but not all people have access to them from the get-go. proto and thales takes time or a bit of ISK. also, people don't stand still or not tank their suits (unless they're a jumpy suit or dampened scout). the concept CCP had for Hotfix Delta was to make it so that it didn't have to be proto or nothing to compete when using SRs. the way they did that was with over the top head shot multiplier, which made even the standard variant SR slay on a head shot even in the hands of a countersniping nub. brick-tanking has little to no survivibility with that, so there's no use running proto unless you wanna risk losing ISK. that's not fair to those who are fully invested into the SR. I see you coming from a mile away.


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