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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
275
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Posted - 2015.10.19 19:34:00 -
[151] - Quote
Union118 wrote:I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still.
you used "the sniper" rifle (im going to assume you mean all of them) being in a good spot then used the Thales as an example. that doesn't fly cause that's an Officer weapon used for comparison. In that same regard, i could say Balacs are in a good spot, so are Aldins, Luis, Alex, Bons, Nothis, Kalante's, etc. i agree with you though, Officer weapons are in a good spot. they're so good that, now more than ever, they are being abused in public matches since player trading and warbarges were implemented and are a problem the CPM want to address. we're talking about proto and below though and those SRs are not in a good place in terms of damage progression.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express Damage LLC
231
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:22:00 -
[152] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:A brief collection of thoughts on Range Reduction and Red Line Snipers.
-snipe-
I have to totally agree on this. When I started playing this game, all I wanted to do was snipe. I would always be on the map usually in an elevated position, keeping the bulk of the blue dots between myself and the reds. On a bad match I would get 15 kills, 15 assists. Any time a squad member would call out a redline sniper, I didn't even have to move to dispatch them. 1500wps and 20+ kills, 1-5 deaths per match was about my average using this technique.
Since the range, map, and mood nerf, It seems that the only snipers affected were the on the map snipers. Redline snipers are still present. The difference is on the map snipers have to choose to move closer to multiple reds to deal with one redline sniper, or stand back and leave em alone. I play this game like chess. I am the queen, and the blueberryies are my pawns shielding me. Therefore I am not moving forward to die instantly to a hail of fire to try to take out one guy. I die enough as is.
I used to assign my own threat levels to locations depending on red and blue positioning, elevation, and other elements to figure out were I needed to be. I would wager high risk high reward locations when my team was pushing hard on the enemy. I'd fall back to lower, low reward locations when my team gave up or was simply outclassed. My best games were when both sides came to fight and were both relentless. Sure I'd die more trying to get into more aggressive locations to better aid my team and to try and prevent my blueberries from being flanked. Lol, I almost forgot about that part of sniping. Slowing or denying players from pulling off flank maneuvers. The range nerf stopped that flat out.
At this point, even if range was reintroduced, and damage was normalized it still would not give sniping back those said roles. All the maps and sockets post 1.4 were completely anti-sniper made. Big complexes high walls, little to no high ground to see in except for very small pockets of possible opportunity if fighting was done in specific location.
Sniping used to have a few roles, but in game design and decisions made the SR obsolete. The main factors of the SR no longer having any are due to the range reduction, poor socket design, placing towers in front of elevated positions to block sniper locations, many hp increases, trying to balance sniping because of redline sniping (even though they were puppychow for big dog snipers).
TL;DR The old SR role before nerfs were killing, suppression, assisting in damaging enemy, counter-sniping, and reducing flanking enemies. Post nerfs, lol FU HTFU get gud, sumtin sumtin redline trololololo.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express Damage LLC
231
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:28:00 -
[153] - Quote
Union118 wrote:I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still. Switching to a thale from a supply depot to kill a lone sniper, from the one spot they could possibly be on the map, while they are stationary with a officer weapon does not make a sniper. If you are using the Thale, kick and sway are not an issue. Nothing is an issue at that point.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express Damage LLC
231
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Posted - 2015.10.20 01:29:00 -
[154] - Quote
At this point on this topic, I feel as though we have answered the topic of this discussion and have transformed it into something it was not meant to be. I feel as though the off topic parts were actually beneficial to an open dialogue about sniping issues and am grateful that Symbioticforks spoke up in this thread.
I am truly grateful that two CPM members came into this discussion and answered honestly. Aeon Amadi I thank you for keeping us snipers in mind and trying to address the main topic of this post. Breakin Stuff, I admire your honesty and respect your opinion and am sorry if I got a little aggressive. Without you this topic would not have grew into the flower that bloomed before us.
The main question of this topic was :
Samantha Hunyz wrote: What is CCP/CPMs concerns about its currents state, and what steps are being taken to correct them?
I feel as though this was answered awhile back. This thread just grew in a positive way, but I feel this topic is closed. The CPM spoke, and show that they are trying. I believe that CCP developers are watching as well and care about snipings current state. Unless Rattati or other developers want to chime in, any CPM, or Symbioticforks, I suggest we take what we discussed and start a new topic.
P.S. Breakin Stuff at least cares enough about this game to pitch in and let us know our concerns are being heard. There are alot of other CPMs that did not speak up here, or much on any topic....ever. Mess with Aeon or Breakin, and see my signature to conclude the results.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Symbioticforks
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.10.22 04:30:00 -
[155] - Quote
Union118 wrote:I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still.
Two things stick out with this..
"and I'm using a Thale" - officer gear should be better than "the standard" not the baseline for a sniper rifle should be doing.
"bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot" - what?
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Symbioticforks
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.10.22 04:50:00 -
[156] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:A brief collection of thoughts on Range Reduction and Red Line Snipers.
-snipe-
I have to totally agree on this. When I started playing this game, all I wanted to do was snipe. I would always be on the map usually in an elevated position, keeping the bulk of the blue dots between myself and the reds. On a bad match I would get 15 kills, 15 assists. Any time a squad member would call out a redline sniper, I didn't even have to move to dispatch them. 1500wps and 20+ kills, 1-5 deaths per match was about my average using this technique. Since the range, map, and mood nerf, It seems that the only snipers affected were the on the map snipers. Redline snipers are still present. The difference is on the map snipers have to choose to move closer to multiple reds to deal with one redline sniper, or stand back and leave em alone. I play this game like chess. I am the queen, and the blueberryies are my pawns shielding me. Therefore I am not moving forward to die instantly to a hail of fire to try to take out one guy. I die enough as is. I used to assign my own threat levels to locations depending on red and blue positioning, elevation, and other elements to figure out were I needed to be. I would wager high risk high reward locations when my team was pushing hard on the enemy. I'd fall back to lower, low reward locations when my team gave up or was simply outclassed. My best games were when both sides came to fight and were both relentless. Sure I'd die more trying to get into more aggressive locations to better aid my team and to try and prevent my blueberries from being flanked. Lol, I almost forgot about that part of sniping. Slowing or denying players from pulling off flank maneuvers. The range nerf stopped that flat out. At this point, even if range was reintroduced, and damage was normalized it still would not give sniping back those said roles. All the maps and sockets post 1.4 were completely anti-sniper made. Big complexes high walls, little to no high ground to see in except for very small pockets of possible opportunity if fighting was done in specific location. Sniping used to have a few roles, but in game design and decisions made the SR obsolete. The main factors of the SR no longer having any are due to the range reduction, poor socket design, placing towers in front of elevated positions to block sniper locations, many hp increases, trying to balance sniping because of redline sniping (even though they were puppychow for big dog snipers). TL;DR The old SR role before nerfs were killing, suppression, assisting in damaging enemy, counter-sniping, and reducing flanking enemies. Post nerfs, lol FU HTFU get gud, sumtin sumtin redline trololololo.
This was a good read.
I've never bothered to outline all the roles sniper filled. Progressively with one change or another those roles were removed. New players coming to Dust 514 have no idea, other than the weapon isn't worth dedicating yourself to it.
Unlike.. Remote Explosives?
(that's just too funny to me)
People were dedicated to those when they were strictly Utility, I don't dare begin to imagine the current game state..
Sorry to keep bumping, I'll stop posting unless it's some rant to shed insight.
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University Ivy League
276
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Posted - 2015.10.22 12:15:00 -
[157] - Quote
Just some thoughts from a non-SR user. This is all based on what I would expect to be facing as a target.
Do the SRs in Dust still have that weird sway scheme where they sway a bunch initially after scoping-in, but settle to dead still after a few seconds and stay dead still? If so, that is probably the cause of a lot of the weapons nerfs. You can't have an accurate, dead still weapon that can kill from long distance. It'd be OP as hell. What you can have is an accurate-but-slightly-swaying weapon that can kill from long distance. The little bit of scope sway adds a lot more skill - through timing and reaction speed - to its use.
So if there was a small amount of sway constantly happening, headshots should be OHKs on any suit. If the sniper has timed their shot well enough through the sway of the scope and my movement to land a headshot, they deserve the kill. If they mess up a little and get a bodyshot, it should only take one follow up shot to get the kill. Unfortunately with the current difference in HP that a low SP/STD wearing player and a max SP/PRO wearing player can field... well it's hard to balance anything around shots-to-kill.
As for distance, I think if the sniper can line me up and hit me through a 10x scope they should be able to kill me. The weapon should be doing it's full damage far beyond it's optics range (unless they have 20x scopes or something silly like that?) If these (pretty reasonable) changes happen to the SR and everyone starts sniping, it's likely a map design problem rather than a weapon design problem.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Symbioticforks
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.10.23 20:58:00 -
[158] - Quote
Proto should be destroying Militia.
That's balanced. (character progression)
If you want to run around in a plastic trash bag and call it a suit. You will be punished. If not by the sniper, by anyone else with a weapon.Time to kill against militia should be dramatically less. It takes almost no time to get into advanced level suits. It takes even less time to buy aurum suits. Trying to save money by running around in Militia when your enemy has chosen to risk Prototype loss will have you at a disadvantage. That's the way it's always been.
Constant scope sway wouldn't be good in Dust 514. Sniping has no variable zoom, would make long range shots impossible. If you added in the holding your breath mechanic to steady your aim for a moment, perhaps. Not advocating that at all. That would be yet another complete rework of sniping nobody is asking for.
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Gh0st Blade
KnightKiller's inc.
53
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Posted - 2015.10.23 21:18:00 -
[159] - Quote
Leave my snipers alone XD I used snipers since Beta and seen all the touches, damage, rate of fire, ranges, and ammo capacity. We now have a render range limit that inhibits counter sniping half the time because the person won't render but can see you. Snipers are fine as is because snipers are counter objective or roof campers. They lack good close quarter combat and any light weapon can out dps a sniper in close range. Red line camping occurs because all the vantage points are by the edge of the map thanks to map designers and then it is too easy to forge gun, snipe, or rail rifle a sniper off of a roof. If snipers weren't the loudest gun in the game that can be tracked by its sound then the close quarter assassinations would be more viable, but there is no stealth to snipers lately because there main spots to snip every map and let's face it anyone with a headset can track where the person is.
I'm Casper the friendly teabagger
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Gh0st Blade
KnightKiller's inc.
53
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Posted - 2015.10.23 21:29:00 -
[160] - Quote
Also friend have you tried and Ex sniper with a cal mando? I can one shot most suits on the field but gal sents with 1100 armor and base shield, amaar sents with their 1200 armor, and cal sents or commandos with 700 shield and 600 armor. I've knocked proto snipers and Thales off of their high horses because sniping takes skill to master. The reason it takes skill is because it is to easy to find the sniper if the sniper pegs you a lot. I always go for the noggin but with current hit detection I blue shield or it's counted as a body shot 3 out of 5 shots. Most times people are sniped is when the person stands still or the person has low HP.
I'm Casper the friendly teabagger
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
279
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Posted - 2015.10.27 04:20:00 -
[161] - Quote
Gh0st Blade wrote:Also friend have you tried and Ex sniper with a cal mando? I can one shot most suits on the field but gal sents with 1100 armor and base shield, amaar sents with their 1200 armor, and cal sents or commandos with 700 shield and 600 armor. I've knocked proto snipers and Thales off of their high horses because sniping takes skill to master. The reason it takes skill is because it is to easy to find the sniper if the sniper pegs you a lot. I always go for the noggin but with current hit detection I blue shield or it's counted as a body shot 3 out of 5 shots. Most times people are sniped is when the person stands still or the person has low HP.
most trolly people ever to comment about balance i feel, especially the ones who use the top-tier ones as examples. experimental sniper rifle with calmando is good, sure, but not all people have access to them from the get-go. proto and thales takes time or a bit of ISK. also, people don't stand still or not tank their suits (unless they're a jumpy suit or dampened scout). the concept CCP had for Hotfix Delta was to make it so that it didn't have to be proto or nothing to compete when using SRs. the way they did that was with over the top head shot multiplier, which made even the standard variant SR slay on a head shot even in the hands of a countersniping nub. brick-tanking has little to no survivibility with that, so there's no use running proto unless you wanna risk losing ISK. that's not fair to those who are fully invested into the SR.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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