|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 10:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Bullet physics is irrelevant. It is difficult to hit a target in Dust as the high TTK means targets move around a lot. And it's hardly one hit kill, more like three hits in many cases. What about my suggestion of adding 100 damage, reducing this to a two hit kill. KDR is largely irrelevant. What matters is impact on the battle, which is mostly decided by objective control. A sniper can't take an objective, and doesn't soak up enemy fire. All a sniper can do is kill, they should be good at it. If the redline is a problem I'd rather see it pushed back.
People try to create this illusion that sniping is just point and click, insta-killing. If that were the case, everyone would be doing it, but obviously it's not. It does take follow-up shots, especially if you don't land a HS or miss, to kill targets and skill to keep it up. No bullet physics needed due to faulty core mechanics. We've discussed this at length in other forums. What I have agreed with, though, and still agree with is, yes, push back the redline and revert range. The game had out to 1K m of range to the SR in early builds, I don't see how nerfing the playing field and range of the SR is gonna help players come out or make sniping more effective. Seeing how arguments always end up using the redline as the go-to counter-argument, I can only see pushing it back as helping to quell that completely. This playstyle, and the Caldari one, revolves around range being used to our advantage whereas Gallente are close to medium. It is a valid tactic in shooters, and MMOs i.e. the ranger class, and shouldn't be constrained due to biases. Pushing the range out farther makes snipers accessible to anyone and everyone to kill, especially if you know the direction and distance you were shot/killed from. Draw distance isn't a problem when you can close the gap. Scouts do it all the time when they jump up to SG you from behind. Though I can see memory constraints of the console being a limiting factor, thinking anything otherwise is backwards thinking. - if only PS4 was green lit.
Agree with Aeon that the damage profiles of Sniper Rifles should line up closer as to make them more effective and in-line progression-wise.
Disagree on increased damage up close and decreased damage farther out. Doesn't make sense logistically seeing how bullet velocity increases with range. F=MA. And yes, we're in the future. Shooting 1-2K m out is believable with Caldari technology. Just reading the description could tell you that, but we're not asking for that. Just enough to cover the playing field while allowing others to still kill us within the playing field is enough.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote: Actually, I'd be pretty comfortable removing the redline, simply due to the fact that my secondary weapon wasn't up to par like it is now, now I can snipe while being able to defend myself proper alone, without the need of artificial boundaries or 4 other people being in front of me.
Still a counter perfect, will always be a sniper, I mean, the only real issue would be is that amarr or sentinel staying in the same place preventing us sniper's from doing our work. But that would be something to address, at a later time.
(Or could be addressed with a non jump-able wall between the sniper and enemy player in the perceived "redline" where player's can harass the sniper with grenades and such. People love their nade's and more so ever now)
Honestly, the red line should only be a complaint in Domination, which I bet the majority of these redline complainers don't even play. I wouldn't mind removing it or having it moved back at all if it can still be a safe haven for spawners (not snipers and sniping spots) in this game mode, however. The population for this game is pretty small that you see a lot of the same people unless they stop playing. Having used to play this game a year or two straight daily, I've never seen these guys (on the NA servers at least) until I hopped into other game modes. They all argue that this is an objective based game, which it is, but the issue of the redline doesn't affect people playing Ambush or Skirmish as much, and a lot more people enjoy queing up for those over Doms. For the former, you're either killing with your squad and playing tight, or running quick Ambushes alone, and the objective is to clone the other team. Ambush is so quick that snipers usually avoid playing it, especially if a map is catered for Assaults. With Skirmish, it's clone and/or push and defend the objectives to win. In no way can a sniper who's staying behind the redline be of a big enough nuisance or effective due to the limited lines of sight to be a game changer in this mode either. They'd have to move constantly by dropship to get any good vantage points unless they're mobile on the ground. In the latter, someone who gets in range and sees you can easily kill you, dampened or not - hence snipers are supposed to be effective from range.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates.
I've briefly skimmed the Excel spreadsheet for this upcoming Hotfix, though i don't recall if damage mods were moved to low-slots at all in the previous fix. If they're still high-slots, it would be interesting to see how effective one can be sacrificing damage mods for health. In my experience, at least on my scout account, it doesn't fly really well because you give up a bit of damage. People also still see you moving around unless you're dampened and moving to and from safe cover/perches. Maybe the higher recharge rate will get some people experimenting with the Tac, multiple suits, and with duck and cover tactics, though.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 02:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned.
Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
266
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 04:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Skyline Lonewolf wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live. Hotfix is live btw *TROLL FACE* (If you didn't know already).
Yeah I didn't till I read another thread. Thanks lol. Busy with being an adult in real life.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
266
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 04:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote:Haven't checked out the new update yet but it seems like the tactical sniper will benefit the most from the new shields with the calmando getting a better defense against the anti sniper brigade,
meanwhile I now suspect that the charge rifle has reached a point of utter uselessness particularly against shield tankers with a three round clip and a charge up time I doubt that you will be able to kill them with it at all, unless they stand still long enough to achieve a headshot with every first shot.
the other rifles will also be affected but I doubt as strongly given their fire rate and that a sniper can always chose to avoid the harder targets if needs be.
Being a Charged SR user, I really want to get on and test this, but I'm on a sabatical from gaming till finish one of my certifications. Such is life. Someone else can probably do it and report their experiences on Aeon's CPM Shield Tanking and SR's thread.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
267
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 13:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight.
completely agree on CSR and how it has been affected. the reload mainly from having 2 less bullets per clip makes it obsolete considering you have to factor in charge time. heavies took 4 body shots to kill regardless if not a head shot and a follow-up. the other guns seem to be in the right place though in terms of mechanics. most people agree that the SR damages should scale better also. so much could be accomplished for the betterment of gameplay for everyone if they actually listened to sniper proposals from the guys who actually snipe a majority of the their gameplay. not to sound bitter, but it's like getting intel from the source lol but unbiased. we've more than showcased many ways that this can be done without destroying balance, but rather, promote it in our feedback. that's also utilizing available assets. anyway, still good to see you chime in once in a while Symbs.
To Aeon: I know that nothing is guaranteed, ahd you don't mean to get our hopes up, but proper scaling of SR damage relative to the Thales, redline distance/tweaks, and some range reversion will go a long way to promote balance and making this weapon/role more effective on the battlefield imo.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
268
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 21:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Skyline Lonewolf wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight. completely agree on CSR and how it has been affected. the reload mainly from having 2 less bullets per clip makes it obsolete considering you have to factor in charge time. heavies took 4 body shots to kill regardless if not a head shot and a follow-up. the other guns seem to be in the right place though in terms of mechanics. most people agree that the SR damages should scale better also. so much could be accomplished for the betterment of gameplay for everyone if they actually listened to sniper proposals from the guys who actually snipe a majority of the their gameplay. not to sound bitter, but it's like getting intel from the source lol but unbiased. we've more than showcased many ways that this can be done without destroying balance, but rather, promote it in our feedback. that's also utilizing available assets. anyway, still good to see you chime in once in a while Symbs. To Aeon: I know that nothing is guaranteed, ahd you don't mean to get our hopes up, but proper scaling of SR damage relative to the Thales, redline distance/tweaks, and some range reversion will go a long way to promote balance and making this weapon/role more effective on the battlefield imo. Not sure everyone or even the majority think anything is wrong with the SR as it is. Most people, in fact, seem to think they are a area best left alone. A good sniper has no trouble producing results, and most players are not happy with OHKS from redline campers. So I am not seeing this ground swell of enthusiasm to fix the SR when its not broken. All I see is increase my range and damage as desired fixes from marine recon wannabes. How about Fixing it so the SR can't fire from the redline? I'm in favor of greater damage then, but I'm sorry most players seem to agree they do not add an enjoyable element to the game and making them better for redline camping will not change that option. You can't hack a point while sniping, and most maps are not even good for using the SR. Those maps that are good for sniping are also great for other mid to long range rifles to excel, but its difficult for those guns to have a chance to shine in those open maps if the SR OHKs everything that moves. Just saying they work great now, work on your aim and realize like ALL OTHER GUNS they have a time and place to be used and require you to pick you targets. Wanting the sniper to be effective against all suits is the same as asking for any other weapon to effective against all suits. Its myopic and when you think about it unreasonable.
you obviously can't read well if you really just went and underlined that one phrase in my paragraph of feedback yet negated everything else that was mentioned that COMPLETELY addresses your concerns in terms of sniper damage progression and the redline. also, no one asked for them to be effective against every suit in the game? it just becomes even more of a balancing point when shield regen just got a huge buff, our damage profile was changed to only affect armor to be in line with race/lore a few builds back, and SR damage is no where in line with the Thales in terms of progression. if just that last point was implemented things would be balanced. SR will never OHK anything that moves cause not every shot is a head shot. also, the last time i checked, you can use Assault weapons anywhere and anytime. Assaults are so one-sided, i swear.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
269
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 13:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
you just keep proving that you're a complete idiot. the feedback still remains against redline camping and OHKs in support for those buffs by tweaking in-game assets i.e. maps, yet you keep saying the opposite cause it's the default argument. way to be original kid. like we haven't heard before. *claps* im not even gonna argue. The different racial Assault rifles can be used anywhere, heavies usually defend a point in competitive play but in pubs can roam between objectives, SG scout can go anywhere. yes, we get that on indoor specific maps like the research facility and others, you can't snipe, but all the others you should be able to. also, you can't compare this weapon to swarm launchers cause that's specific to anti-vehicle not infantry vs. infantry. plus if you need evidence of the MD being used anywhere you can check out one of Sax's videos just to give you proof it can be used anywhere. what a bunch of bs seriously. also, before i edited my post, i said ive killed suits back to back, even fully queue synced squads carrying my team, solo i might add, before the nerfs, so i don't think i need to work on my aim. I almost pulled a 30-0 bomb just sniping - no OB - in an -old- AE PC and would've had it not been for the two sniper teammates competing against me for kills - who only had 8 and 7 kills btw. nice try though, kid. go check out my imgur if you need proof/my resume. im done.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
275
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 19:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Union118 wrote:I honestly think that rhe sniper rifle is in a good spot. Im able to two shot just about anything and im using a Thale. Every headshot works and bodyshots almost kill heavies on one shot. So to me its good. Only complaint is kick and sway after shot cuz then you have to realign the next shot and it takes skill to get the second shot on the target cuz they would move after the first if standing still.
you used "the sniper" rifle (im going to assume you mean all of them) being in a good spot then used the Thales as an example. that doesn't fly cause that's an Officer weapon used for comparison. In that same regard, i could say Balacs are in a good spot, so are Aldins, Luis, Alex, Bons, Nothis, Kalante's, etc. i agree with you though, Officer weapons are in a good spot. they're so good that, now more than ever, they are being abused in public matches since player trading and warbarges were implemented and are a problem the CPM want to address. we're talking about proto and below though and those SRs are not in a good place in terms of damage progression.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
|
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
279
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 04:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gh0st Blade wrote:Also friend have you tried and Ex sniper with a cal mando? I can one shot most suits on the field but gal sents with 1100 armor and base shield, amaar sents with their 1200 armor, and cal sents or commandos with 700 shield and 600 armor. I've knocked proto snipers and Thales off of their high horses because sniping takes skill to master. The reason it takes skill is because it is to easy to find the sniper if the sniper pegs you a lot. I always go for the noggin but with current hit detection I blue shield or it's counted as a body shot 3 out of 5 shots. Most times people are sniped is when the person stands still or the person has low HP.
most trolly people ever to comment about balance i feel, especially the ones who use the top-tier ones as examples. experimental sniper rifle with calmando is good, sure, but not all people have access to them from the get-go. proto and thales takes time or a bit of ISK. also, people don't stand still or not tank their suits (unless they're a jumpy suit or dampened scout). the concept CCP had for Hotfix Delta was to make it so that it didn't have to be proto or nothing to compete when using SRs. the way they did that was with over the top head shot multiplier, which made even the standard variant SR slay on a head shot even in the hands of a countersniping nub. brick-tanking has little to no survivibility with that, so there's no use running proto unless you wanna risk losing ISK. that's not fair to those who are fully invested into the SR.
I see you coming from a mile away.
|
|
|
|