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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
38
   |
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper.
Let me put it in terms of EvE ships - Caldari "kite" at maximum range from their targets, like a sniper, keeping at distance. The best counter to that is another Caldari with greater range, a sniper that can snipe from a greater range. But Gallente can outpace Caldari ships generally, and get inside their range, hitting with their blasters (most powerful weapons in the game, but short range). The equivalent is a scout with a powerful rifle, hunting for the sniper.
The red line is an issue. As an artificial construct, the sniper can sit behind the opposing team's red line, so they can't approach close enough to hit with powerful short range weapons. So in Dust, the only counter to a sniper is a counter-sniper.
But if the red line issue was dealt with, there would be theoretically no place where a sniper could go that some enterprising scout couldn't find them. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
38
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
With regard to the discussion on the nature of the physics of sniping, I've thought a lot about this.
I totally agree that the physics should be addressed. It's just not reasonable for higher range weapons out to 2km to not be effected by the environment - chaos theory says that there has to be a probability component to whether or not a hit is made. However, we should understand this isn't really "bullet physics", when we're talking about energies that are high enough to form a plasma on impact of the projectile.
I have no problem at all with the idea of straight line trajectories, because the speeds are so high that even at 2km the drop in trajectory due to gravity would not be noticeable. What would be noticeable, however, would be the chance element, which can be introduced as a simple random number generator function of range, from an optimal range effected by skills as well as the weapon with 100% hit, out to maximum range where the effective hit probability would be 0, again, effected by skills.
Sniper isn't point-and-hit in real life, and shouldn't be in this game. It would be so ridiculously easy to implement this. I see the redline issue as being more of a problem than implementation of proper projectile physics or hit probability. |
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 12:43:00 -
[93] - Quote
Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
281
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 16:53:00 -
[94] - Quote
Actually, I'd be pretty comfortable removing the redline, simply due to the fact that my secondary weapon wasn't up to par like it is now, now I can snipe while being able to defend myself proper alone, without the need of artificial boundaries or 4 other people being in front of me.
Still a counter perfect, will always be a sniper, I mean, the only real issue would be is that amarr or sentinel staying in the same place preventing us sniper's from doing our work. But that would be something to address, at a later time.
(Or could be addressed with a non jump-able wall between the sniper and enemy player in the perceived "redline" where player's can harass the sniper with grenades and such. People love their nade's and more so ever now)
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
218
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates.
I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns.
On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:45:00 -
[96] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later.
join in my corp? Teach me sniping?
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:52:00 -
[97] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote: Actually, I'd be pretty comfortable removing the redline, simply due to the fact that my secondary weapon wasn't up to par like it is now, now I can snipe while being able to defend myself proper alone, without the need of artificial boundaries or 4 other people being in front of me.
Still a counter perfect, will always be a sniper, I mean, the only real issue would be is that amarr or sentinel staying in the same place preventing us sniper's from doing our work. But that would be something to address, at a later time.
(Or could be addressed with a non jump-able wall between the sniper and enemy player in the perceived "redline" where player's can harass the sniper with grenades and such. People love their nade's and more so ever now)
Honestly, the red line should only be a complaint in Domination, which I bet the majority of these redline complainers don't even play. I wouldn't mind removing it or having it moved back at all if it can still be a safe haven for spawners (not snipers and sniping spots) in this game mode, however. The population for this game is pretty small that you see a lot of the same people unless they stop playing. Having used to play this game a year or two straight daily, I've never seen these guys (on the NA servers at least) until I hopped into other game modes. They all argue that this is an objective based game, which it is, but the issue of the redline doesn't affect people playing Ambush or Skirmish as much, and a lot more people enjoy queing up for those over Doms. For the former, you're either killing with your squad and playing tight, or running quick Ambushes alone, and the objective is to clone the other team. Ambush is so quick that snipers usually avoid playing it, especially if a map is catered for Assaults. With Skirmish, it's clone and/or push and defend the objectives to win. In no way can a sniper who's staying behind the redline be of a big enough nuisance or effective due to the limited lines of sight to be a game changer in this mode either. They'd have to move constantly by dropship to get any good vantage points unless they're mobile on the ground. In the latter, someone who gets in range and sees you can easily kill you, dampened or not - hence snipers are supposed to be effective from range.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates.
I've briefly skimmed the Excel spreadsheet for this upcoming Hotfix, though i don't recall if damage mods were moved to low-slots at all in the previous fix. If they're still high-slots, it would be interesting to see how effective one can be sacrificing damage mods for health. In my experience, at least on my scout account, it doesn't fly really well because you give up a bit of damage. People also still see you moving around unless you're dampened and moving to and from safe cover/perches. Maybe the higher recharge rate will get some people experimenting with the Tac, multiple suits, and with duck and cover tactics, though.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
218
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 18:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. join in my corp? Teach me sniping?
Until sniping is viable, I will not join another corp.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:10:00 -
[100] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later.
Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now.
Stay tuned.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
281
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:51:00 -
[101] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned.
Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.08 21:07:00 -
[102] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not.
Where did I ever say I wanted to nerf heavy suit sniping O.o???
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
218
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 21:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. Bullshit on that. Battlefield snipers have bullet physics, this means you can throw off their aim by being completely unpredictable. Dodge, duck and weave make them work for the kill. If they are close enough to land a shot despite this, then they are close enough to be shot by your rifle. There's also Machine Gun suppression that messes with their aim, dramatically increasing scope sway. A Battlefield sniper has to work for the kill, it isn't point and shoot.
On this game it might be just point and shoot, but it comes with alot of trade off. For starters, only able to use half of the thumb sticks.
This in its self makes landing a shot take 50% more aiming ability than any other weapon in this game. That also allows those getting snipped to dodge, duck and weaving is very effect due to these limiting factors and every kill is so earned.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
281
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 21:44:00 -
[104] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. Where did I ever say I wanted to nerf heavy suit sniping O.o???
Ah, sorry, that was directed towards Samantha, you just kinda got in the middle, my bad.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
218
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 21:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned.
Quick report:
Scout CK0 Highs- 2x energizers, 1x extender, 1x damage mode. Lows- 1x reg 1x damp, also a 2x reg
Snipping with a scout without max damage mods is more painful than what it was versus shield users especially with the Ishukone. The tac faired better but still after a few clips, shield users were more likely to get away and have me just stop shooting at them. Scouts mostly slipped away. Assaults with reg suits could tank and regen fully before I could land a a 2nd round. Commandos and sentenials minus headshots (which is extremely difficult on the tac) we a total waste of bullets.
I did not test the assault, but it could do better just due to reload bonus and an extra slot for another damage mod. I only have the caldari assault to adv, but have some loyalty store protos. I probably will be choose to use this over my scout after I get it to proto.
Commando CK0 High-2x damage mods, 1x energizer. Lows-2x regs.
This suit is a beast and perfect for high ground on the map snipping. Paired with the new bonus to swarms, it allows me to really defend my spot from suicidal heavy and dropships. Before I found this tactic to always go in the favour of my opponent. AT least It feels like a 50% chance which I am glad to have. Also with the regen capabilities, I am less scared of taking light rifle damage. Before I would hide after the first round hit me, and fall back to a new spot if possible. Now I swing my tac to them and try to take them down. If I feel like I am going to fail, I drop back and regen, than go back to the attack. Pair this suit with a forge up high and I believe you have the perfect AV and anti-infantry team. This is the first time I actually enjoyed playing sniper with this suit. Still won't be me go to suit on average, but I'm it will see alot of play time for sure.
I have not got in a calmando versus calmando yet. It will still favour the one the spots the other first, but could lead to match long nobody dying or killing due to these regen abilities it has.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
218
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 21:50:00 -
[106] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not.
]I am not asking for any nerfs as I like the new shield and armour balance. I am advocating for the sniper to be reworked or buffed to compensate for these buffs to bring the SR back into a decent place.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
281
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Just so we're clear, you want to nerf the heavy suit sniping? If so, no prob, I always use Assault CK.0 (that reload bonus so good) to snipe in, rather be able to hide with damps than maximize damage. And now that I got a reliable sidearm, I may just run into you on the frontline's and maybe even counter snipe more often than not. ]I am not asking for any nerfs as I like the new shield and armour balance. I am advocating for the sniper to be reworked or buffed to compensate for these buffs to bring the SR back into a decent place.
*HAAAALLELUJAH!* Still would like to auto scan my targets per shot, a sniper would at least deserve that much for actually hitting the soon to be rotting corpse.....
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
265
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Posted - 2015.10.09 02:51:00 -
[108] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned.
Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
283
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:01:00 -
[109] - Quote
Skyline Lonewolf wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live.
Hotfix is live btw *TROLL FACE* (If you didn't know already).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
506
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
Haven't checked out the new update yet but it seems like the tactical sniper will benefit the most from the new shields with the calmando getting a better defense against the anti sniper brigade,
meanwhile I now suspect that the charge rifle has reached a point of utter uselessness particularly against shield tankers with a three round clip and a charge up time I doubt that you will be able to kill them with it at all, unless they stand still long enough to achieve a headshot with every first shot.
the other rifles will also be affected but I doubt as strongly given their fire rate and that a sniper can always chose to avoid the harder targets if needs be. |
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
266
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 04:19:00 -
[111] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Skyline Lonewolf wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Samantha Hunyz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Considering how much hell I just had with one particularly dedicated shield-tanking sniper, I'm interested to see what becomes of shield tanking sniper fits with Hotfix FoxFour.
The ability to take damage, dive into cover for five seconds, and have HP restored to full, is an amazing benefit for long-range capabilities. While I'm still looking over this thread (which I've subscribed to) for nuanced sniper changes, I'm interested to see how snipers benefit from shield tanking instead of just stacking a bunch of plates. I am curious about this as well. My normal fits are all ewar or all damage mods, so it will require me to try a different play style. TBH I don't think shield regen and tank will effect a sniper much as most players that come after us are speed suits with knives and shotguns. On I side note, I am theory crafting that the other shield players will be harder to kill with a SR than armour players. Last night while I played around, I could not drop a a minmando who was obviously regulator stacked. I was using the ish with 3 complex damage and 2x krins. I was landing on average 2 shots per clip, up to 3. after a few minutes, I just stopped shooting at him period. I feel as though that statement will translate to all shield frames today, but I will report back my findings later. Okay, yeah, I will admit that shield tanking on the receiving end of the sniping was something I had not previously considered and I'm not sure that any of the other CPM did either. For that, my sincerest apologies are in order and we're looking at that right now. Stay tuned. Shield tankers have become tougher to take down than armor tankers ever since the SR's damage profile was changed to affect armor, but that makes sense for lore. Before, rounds pierced directly based on SR damage regardless of profile. Armor has been king though for the longest time. I imagine it will become more difficult to take down shield tankers once shield tanking is buffed and people can just ping off the damage, run and hide behind cover, and heal up due to the recharge rate of regulars. My go-to suit is the Commando Ck.0 for testing and play still due to the light weapon damage bonus, though cal and gallente logis are unlocked on prototype, and the respective scout suits with fully speced SR trees on my alt. Might hop on to give the Hotfix a go when/if it's live. Hotfix is live btw *TROLL FACE* (If you didn't know already).
Yeah I didn't till I read another thread. Thanks lol. Busy with being an adult in real life.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
266
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 04:24:00 -
[112] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote:Haven't checked out the new update yet but it seems like the tactical sniper will benefit the most from the new shields with the calmando getting a better defense against the anti sniper brigade,
meanwhile I now suspect that the charge rifle has reached a point of utter uselessness particularly against shield tankers with a three round clip and a charge up time I doubt that you will be able to kill them with it at all, unless they stand still long enough to achieve a headshot with every first shot.
the other rifles will also be affected but I doubt as strongly given their fire rate and that a sniper can always chose to avoid the harder targets if needs be.
Being a Charged SR user, I really want to get on and test this, but I'm on a sabatical from gaming till finish one of my certifications. Such is life. Someone else can probably do it and report their experiences on Aeon's CPM Shield Tanking and SR's thread.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.11 14:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone:
- More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry
- An anti-shield 'sniper rifle'
- Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles
Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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cronopio feju
Ecce Initio RLC.
RUST415
216
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 23:31:00 -
[114] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone:
- More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry
- An anti-shield 'sniper rifle'
- Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles
Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not.
The ability to choose a specific range of optimal damage please, even if we need to sacrifice the ammo, please
Si el primer botón que usas en una partida no es "flecha arriba" lo estás haciendo mal...
-TheAmazing FlyingPig
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Symbioticforks
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 04:57:00 -
[115] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed.
I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game.
Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well.
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Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 08:22:00 -
[116] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well.
Hit me up on Skype tomorrow, bring your sniper bros, we'll hash out ideas.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 12:21:00 -
[117] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone:
- More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry
- An anti-shield 'sniper rifle'
- Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles
Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not.
Solid idea, but does nothing to fix the current SR has even killing armour players. I think this new laser variant would be better at killing armour than the sr.
I'd rather see all in game assets fixed before introducing new content.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
223
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 12:35:00 -
[118] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well.
I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable.
Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
267
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 13:53:00 -
[119] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. I don't even know the state of thing these days. However, the last time I was around these parts. CCP went over the top with headshot damage multiplier which only needed a small buff, and almost completely ignored increasing base damage. They also reduced the charge sniper rifle clip size from 5 to 3. Which made the Rifle obsolete when you could spam fire 5 bullets from a standard sniper rifle praying for headshots and do just as well if not better. Reducing the magazine size from 5 to 3 on the charge made the weapon incapable of killing some heavies without reloading if you hit the body on all 3 shots. Those extra bullets were needed, especially considering the lag / framerate issues of the game. Anyway, if CCP had listened to me, and accepted my proposed damage scaling I feel this would be a lot less of an issue. Also the unrequested (unchangeable) Sniper Rifle Cross Hair change, was super annoying as well. I totally agree. The headshot multiplier was never needed. It effectively makes counter sniping easier and did little for the actual sniper. HP and speed increases has made the sr irrelevant. If hit detection worked, headshots would be more attainable. Oh and don't get me started on those "temporary" sights that nobody wanted. I want legitimate crosshairs. I use the tac most often, and it feels like I am being punished for trying to get closer with an AOE style sight.
completely agree on CSR and how it has been affected. the reload mainly from having 2 less bullets per clip makes it obsolete considering you have to factor in charge time. heavies took 4 body shots to kill regardless if not a head shot and a follow-up. the other guns seem to be in the right place though in terms of mechanics. most people agree that the SR damages should scale better also. so much could be accomplished for the betterment of gameplay for everyone if they actually listened to sniper proposals from the guys who actually snipe a majority of the their gameplay. not to sound bitter, but it's like getting intel from the source lol but unbiased. we've more than showcased many ways that this can be done without destroying balance, but rather, promote it in our feedback. that's also utilizing available assets. anyway, still good to see you chime in once in a while Symbs.
To Aeon: I know that nothing is guaranteed, ahd you don't mean to get our hopes up, but proper scaling of SR damage relative to the Thales, redline distance/tweaks, and some range reversion will go a long way to promote balance and making this weapon/role more effective on the battlefield imo.
I see you coming from a mile away.
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Vesta Opalus
PROJECT OF KILLERS.
RUST415
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 17:42:00 -
[120] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:One of the considerations we've got on the table atm (can't promise anything) is making a variant of the Laser Rifle with higher optimal range and higher zoom fidelity. This is to knock out a few birds with one stone:
- More diversity/variety in Amarr weaponry
- An anti-shield 'sniper rifle'
- Closing the range gap between traditional weapons and sniper rifles
Feel free to post suggestions on range and what not.
The normal laser rifle already tends to shut down field sniping unless the map is huge, having even more longer range weapons would just make this even worse (to say nothing of how strong lasers are if used properly already). How would yet another laser rifle be balanced in any way considering the massive disadvantages you get using a sniper rifle already? If this new rifle had the mechanics of the current laser rifle it would be absolutely insane unless the dps was so low as to make it useless anyway. |
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