Precisely, nothing is wrong with it. It is working more than fine, but every couple weeks we get the "OMG I can't hit a guy in the head but I want to OHK dudes from the redline" post. It gets old. The guys with proto/officer snipers and fully skilled out SRs are having no trouble sniping. The issue is all the wannabe marine recon scrubs not understanding the game, and thinking just because a gun says sniper rifle its an excuse to play solitaire from 400 meters and they want to shoe horn it into situations were it is not the right fit. Its a gun like any other gun in the game. Its not a role. I don't say "I'm a Rail rifler", and the rail rifle is not going to be good in all situations. The sooner the wannabes understand that the sooner, the "Please CCP make me a killing machine with no risk from the redline because I cant hack the actual game mechanics" stop.

I mean come on, I want an insta kill button on my control pad where I just have to see a guy and press it, but I don't think that's very good for the game. Sniping is not hard, is not a role, is not even usually helpful to the team on most maps. It is useful in a select few situation like any other weapon in this game. It is also sadly one of the options with the fewest counter strategies which is a great reason to keep it the way it is, or even better just increase the damage and make it only usable when not in the redline. That balances the risk and the reward. I just get tired of people thinking the SR is any different from other guns. Its a tool to be used some of the time when the situation calls for it. It is not a full time occupation...hence no suit named sniper. They work fine; they kill more than fine, so aside from the QQ about being bad with them I'm not sure what people want. Apparently just insta kill buttons.

If you think it's an instant win button, you clearly have never sniped in Dust 514 before.

Again you seem to have a literacy issue Aeon: No one ever said it is an instant win button. Sound out the words and read it again. Kill is not the word Win. You have this issue a lot, we write one thing and you read another. Then you post something random. There is a reason you are getting a lot of bashing lately. Mature up and READ the posts.

I snipe seldom, but when I do its not exactly hard. It is certainly not an instant win, but in fact, usually contributes little towards a win. Most of the time having another person pushing the objective is ten times better than one guy sniping. It has its place in the game, but its not a do every game activity as some players want it to be. Its a tool that right now is one of the few things in the game working OK. It probably needs some fine tuning, but upping range or damage is not right direction from the current base. Players who know when to use the tool do really well with relatively little risk compared to other in-game activities, and those who don't come here and beg for OHKs from 400 meters on all maps. It just needs to be seen as just another gun to be used when appropriate, and not given some mythic status as a separate role in the game. The AR will not be useful on all maps, and most people seem to grasp that. The issue seems to be when people can't apply the same logic to SRs.

[quote=BARAGAMOS][quote=Aeon Amadi][quote=BARAGAMOS]
So with your logic, sniper's have no role, in a realistic stand-point that could be a very grave problem (no pun intended), because if we look at this with a realistic type of view, how would Caldari ever win if they never had sniper's? Exactly they wouldn't not to say they wouldn't be helpful, given the fact that many Caldari weaponry have long spool time's, the caldari would be at a considerable disadvantage if they were caught off guard by a Gallente Scout who, logically, flanked from a different angle and distracted the opposition long enough for his own troops to encroach on the Caldari forces and engage from a distance of their liking, now by your logic, the only role's there ARE, is those that are currently in the game, so if THAT were realistic, then logically sniper rifle's simply wouldn't exist PERIOD, so taking THEM out of the equation, there would be, absolutely NOTHING, to stop Gallente from ruling over Caldari with an Iron Fist.

Now Sniper's do actually deserve their own role, as in many FPS' from the Battlefield franchise, to many unnamed franchises they fit a specific role, that's flexible, and can support the allied team in more than 1 way, wouldn't make much sense to have an SR in a futuristic game and not expand upon it in someway, which is what really need's to happen.

Also your claim that your not "Anti Sniper" completely contradicts the fact that you pretty much, bashed on a few sniper's already, not twisting word's, just pointing out the obvious.

Furthermore, you're pretty much insulting anyone who even tries to defend the sniper rifle.... And we haven't even called you out by name..... You're the only one who seem's pretty hostile in this current moment.

Except I'm not asking for more damage, especially not reduced sway, either increased range or maybe reintroduction of sharpshooter skills to increase the range, or maybe the ability to tag my enemies, so that my allies can see their location's, that's all I'm asking for. It's more upsetting to see an enemy within the scope and know he's going to get away with everything he want's like some spoiled teenager from a rich family, all because your allies aren't on comm's or are too ignorant, or unaware to know where the enemy is at.

If not able to kill them, at least give us the ability to tag em'.

D-does anyone else feel defeated by what breakin stuff just jot down?...

Way to stay close minded. If hit detection is that poor than adding aim assist, reducing range, and buffing damage or rate of fire seems like a way it can be hotfixed.

p.s. are you an IWS alt?

No, look at my earlier comments to see I showed there were ways to address Breaking Stuffs long winded post with
I agree with everything he said in his wall of text. It is the same thing long time snipers have been hollering about for ages. It is simply a time for a redesign of the sniper role that fits in with not only lore but as well as hardware limitations. I did not throw up a wall of text but offered straight forward answers to Breakings concerns.
In a nutshell, the range is too much for the system so it has to be reduced, but should come with a trade off. SO to put into practice a balanced environment we need to combine both Breakings and Aeons idea for balance as well as mine.

Nerf: (Breaking Stuff) concerns about low framerates and bad hit detection) range needs to be reduced more towards 100-150 ms tops.
Buff: (Aeon ) normalize the damage jump between tiers as so that the officer damage isn't that great over proto as it is.

well in that first cycle snipers now have to get out the redline and be on the map. both sides win win. But that leaves a sniper still with a glaring flaw. Snipers only use have of the aiming devices and even at those ranges have bad hit detection.

proposed fixes:

Buff- give aim assist at the lowest level to help bullet magnetism.

Nerf- No nerf needed. To explain only using 50% of the aiming sticks provided is already a nerf to aiming, making aiming already too difficult. This alone gives the sniped a huge advantage over the the now non arguable skilled shooter an advantage. And I want it that way. I want my skill shots to mean I beat you fairly. Hell, badly.

But what do I know, constructive criticism never seems welcome.

In a nutshell, the range is too much for the system so it has to be reduced, but should come with a trade off. SO to put into practice a balanced environment we need to combine both Breakings and Aeons idea for balance as well as mine.

Nerf: (Breaking Stuff) concerns about low framerates and bad hit detection) range needs to be reduced more towards 100-150 ms tops.
Buff: (Aeon ) normalize the damage jump between tiers as so that the officer damage isn't that great over proto as it is.

Buff- give aim assist at the lowest level to help bullet magnetism.

But what do I know, constructive criticism never seems welcome.

@ Breakin

While I would agree with you a lot of the problem for snipers is hard to fix technical issues or problems, is there any real harm with making damage/range inversely proportional?

Also, what is the feasibility of changing the sway mechanic so that it only becomes active while scoping to prevent quick scopes, but does not "reset" when a player simply moves laterally if they are already scoped?

Because of the marginal utility and difficulty in making a sniper an asset to the team (if you're not in comms or a freaking murder god pulling consistent double digits per match around 20 kills? You aren't.) .
{ 1}

2: Low FPS/Lag make it difficult to center the sniper crosshair consistently on a target, much less their head easily, often forcing an overshoot and constant micro-corrections
{ 2}

3: Movement inertia is a particular thorn in my side for many reasons. The ability to shift direction with no/negligible loss of momentum makes "pain in the ass" seem like a rather understated description of the process of lining up a body shot, much less a headshot. And because sniper rifles are hitscan, you cannot lead the target and figure out where along his path you can release.
Once you know the timing of the shot flying, you can lead the target and release about when he's going to intersect with the projectile. With the sniper rifle you have that brief, not-moment as the reticle flashes red to pull a perfect shot.
{ 3}

(standing still and getting ya head blown off in your Rattati Gk.0 suit by an opportunist with a thale isn't exactly something I have an abundance of sympathy for).

2: Range. The sniper rifles outrange every single weapon in the game, by no less than 50m in the case of the tactical sniper and ranging up to 150 for the standard sniper. This means a ranging shot from a sniper rifle can often ONLY be answered with another sniper rifle or a OB, or a lot of high-risk approach which is almost invariably done as a suicidal gesture in the redline with the loss of a suit/LAV/dropship a certainty rather than a risk.

3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period.
{ 4}


So, does this make my stance clear on why technical issues in DUST 514 create problems with the sniper rifle that obscure the failure points and balance of the weapons to where balance is needlessly hard?

Attention 4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping.

Except I'm not asking for more damage, especially not reduced sway, either increased range or maybe reintroduction of sharpshooter skills to increase the range, or maybe the ability to tag my enemies, so that my allies can see their location's, that's all I'm asking for. It's more upsetting to see an enemy within the scope and know he's going to get away with everything he want's like some spoiled teenager from a rich family, all because your allies aren't on comm's or are too ignorant, or unaware to know where the enemy is at.

If not able to kill them, at least give us the ability to tag em'.

That seems like something that would give guys with sniper rifles a more rounded purpose and make them more useful on more maps without amping up the actual gun itself. So maybe some combination of abilities that make snipers not feel like your team is down a man is the right answer.

3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period.

#3 often makes it IMPOSSIBLE to retaliate against a sniper whether in the redline or on a hill crest to the side in a valid engagement area. Because if you cannot render it, you cannot see it, which means killing it is impossible. Is this the fault of sniper players?

Absolutely not. Draw distance limits were a memory-saving response that was used to keep the game from going too choppy. But it creates it's own balance problems. The draw distance limit was why thale users in the past with 500m+ optimal/absolute ranges could not be killed by anyone except another thale user. Because they could sit in the redline 200-250m back, sight in a high traffic area and kill with impunity, and other sniper rifles could perform similar feats, albeit with more difficulty, was why sniper rifle ranges were nerfed to force snipers to come to ranges where someone approaching the redline CAN RENDER THEM and retaliate.

4: The redline. Snipers can hide so deep in the redline that killing one requires either another sniper rifle, or a willingness to sacrifice an entire fitting to kill one upon success, much less if the sniper manages to kill you and survive. This has historically been a MAJOR and valid complaint that snipers could kill with impunity but killing them back means you have to die in a fit to get them. Or you had to countersnipe them.

When the only counter to something is itself, you have an imbalance that MUST be addressed.

The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper.

First part of the statement is a game balance problem.

Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy.

But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper.

But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper.

someone told me the symbs does the same damage if you snap fire it versus full charge. if that's the case it needs a look.



There is no reality in which the draw distance limit isn't an unfair advantage.

Bullet physics is irrelevant. It is difficult to hit a target in Dust as the high TTK means targets move around a lot.
And it's hardly one hit kill, more like three hits in many cases.
What about my suggestion of adding 100 damage, reducing this to a two hit kill.
KDR is largely irrelevant. What matters is impact on the battle, which is mostly decided by objective control. A sniper can't take an objective, and doesn't soak up enemy fire. All a sniper can do is kill, they should be good at it.
If the redline is a problem I'd rather see it pushed back.