|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
501
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 21:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:
should be 5% per tier...like all the other anti-infantry weapons
this is how every other weapon in the game is scaled, yes.
mm. true but does any other anti infantry weapon have the same issues?
I have been a fairly decent sniper on this game for a little while now and during my time on here I've noticed a few of the issues with them.
breakin stuff actually gave one of the more honest answers i've seen to do with sniping in dust when he mentions:
Quote:crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. and if you read all of the posts then you'll have seen the exact ones he means, the main ones being hit detection and sway.
in my humble opinion the only ways to balance sniping in dust would have to be based around the skill tree. not because they would fix the issues but because they would allow serious snipers to circumvent those issues whilst also ensuring that we don't suddenly flood dust with a ton of new snipers chasing fotm.
I personally would love to be able to upgrade my sniper ability further and would have no qualms about it taking most of my sp. because I don't generally want to be skilling in to much else (and for everybody that doesn't know me most of my corpmates would be happy about me doing that too.)
a few thoughts on what they could do:
.the ammo skill should be bullets per level not %. i.e a 33.33% per level would still only give a charge rifle a single extra shot per level, but would start to cause issues on a thales.
.A new skill that allows a sniper to skill into loss of scope sway - not drastically important on the vanilla or charge variants but why on earth the tactical even has any I still don't understand.
.a skill that opens the ability to mark targets for your squad?
the charge rifle should be given the ability to fire at any time in the same manner as the symbs fork.
other things:
some of the damages don't seem right.
.why is a symbs fork rifle only two points away from a thales when it requires a charge up and has less range? .why are the proto type rifles so far behind the officer types? (though I suspect this has a lot to do with them being readily available) .if a tactical rifle is dusts approach to combat snipers why does it sway so much and why does it require me to crouch - the only way to ohk with it is with a headshot so why cant i use it defensively if i need to?
.much more movement, particularly with the tactical variants if players don't want snipers to camp then they will have to accept quick/no scope kills. this was kind of in the above but it will go a long way towards reducing redline activity for those of you that still think its a problem.
(How can players still expect snipers to be running around "just outside of the combat rifle range" when even a tactical sniper has to be immobile. this has been an issue for a long time, and to any player who thinks that a sniper cant be killed in certain positions anyway, you are being lazy. sorry but its true.)
( all snipers are squishy.)
this also requires some form of alternate way of using a sniper rifle as they have no close combat capability even to the extent they simply cannot be aimed at a player that is too close never mind the appalling fire rate and clip sizes or just the acceptance that they are supposed to be long range weapons.
(until ccp acknowledge that fact the players certainly wont)
There are things I've missed here so i may be posting again. however more to the initial thread,
cpm, would you be able to tell us are sniper rifle fixes something on the upcoming agenda please?
|
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
503
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 21:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Because of the marginal utility and difficulty in making a sniper an asset to the team (if you're not in comms or a freaking murder god pulling consistent double digits per match around 20 kills? You aren't.) . { 1} 2: Low FPS/Lag make it difficult to center the sniper crosshair consistently on a target, much less their head easily, often forcing an overshoot and constant micro-corrections { 2} 3: Movement inertia is a particular thorn in my side for many reasons. The ability to shift direction with no/negligible loss of momentum makes "pain in the ass" seem like a rather understated description of the process of lining up a body shot, much less a headshot. And because sniper rifles are hitscan, you cannot lead the target and figure out where along his path you can release. Once you know the timing of the shot flying, you can lead the target and release about when he's going to intersect with the projectile. With the sniper rifle you have that brief, not-moment as the reticle flashes red to pull a perfect shot. { 3} (standing still and getting ya head blown off in your Rattati Gk.0 suit by an opportunist with a thale isn't exactly something I have an abundance of sympathy for). 2: Range. The sniper rifles outrange every single weapon in the game, by no less than 50m in the case of the tactical sniper and ranging up to 150 for the standard sniper. This means a ranging shot from a sniper rifle can often ONLY be answered with another sniper rifle or a OB, or a lot of high-risk approach which is almost invariably done as a suicidal gesture in the redline with the loss of a suit/LAV/dropship a certainty rather than a risk. 3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period. { 4} So, does this make my stance clear on why technical issues in DUST 514 create problems with the sniper rifle that obscure the failure points and balance of the weapons to where balance is needlessly hard?
I like most of this post. very good.
Since sniper rifles cant be balanced easily due to tech issues how about we do focus on snipers as a role instead?
I personally find that a larger issue with sniping is the fact that other than killing there is no use for a sniper could this be addressed through things like target painting?
1. I re-iterate the need for more utility behind sniping, this would go along way towards helping the snipers on dust.
2 there is a horrible feeling to missing because of twitch adjusting against a target that should be an easy kill that most players will never know and its only made worse when bullets don't connect or they don't do enough damage.
3. i'm glad you pointed this out, most people who don't snipe on here will say how hitscan is easy mode, but in reality its counter intuitive, and reduces the window for a successful shot. mostly through the fact that there is no leading a target for the actual shot. but also as there is a "not moment" just AS the dot turns red to hit a moving target thats so slight, if the dot has already turned red you will miss.
yes sniper rifles outrange other weapons, (not sure about forge guns, but probably those too.) however they are sniper rifles. and due to the way the sniper rifles work they couldn't be reliably used inside the ranges of the other weapons any more than a bow could.
maybe there should be some new form of counter play created possibly a single target o.b could be linked to a sniper "painted" lock on? that would only be usable against a stationary target making it useless against most other things and the sniper scope would solve draw distance issues.
4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping.
also: the only sniper rifle needing a sway reduction is the tactical variants. seems like the charge rifle needs something doing to it, cant quite put my finger on what yet though. the symbs fork rifle doesn't gain enough damage for its trade offs with both charge and range over the thales.
lastly I think that a more rounded approach is needed (probably involving new skills) and with range issues perhaps a carrot will work better then a stick.?
|
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
503
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 11:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:someone told me the symbs does the same damage if you snap fire it versus full charge. if that's the case it needs a look. Quote:Attention 4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping. There is no reality in which the draw distance limit isn't an unfair advantage.
I probably wasn't clear enough in what I was getting at due to a lack of remaining characters.
I don't mean to say that its fair to have a player literally invisible to enemies,
but what I was trying to say is that if you take away aspects related to the draw distance issues it could lead to a sniper being very highly exposed at the moment.
i.e if a player takes high ground to snipe, they will be backlit by the sky, their chevron glowing above their head, whilst crouched down and aiming down scope in a place that everybody knows is a vantage point leaving tracer lines showing everybody they shoot at or near their exact position regardless of distance and as none of that requires a scan, profile dampeners wont help.
now admittedly there are some things here that you could say like the sniper shouldn't hold the position for too long, or perhaps the person sniping shouldn't use the known vantage points.
but both of those would require a sniper to be able to be much more mobile than they can realistically be on dust, especially when you consider the difficulty of making a worthy contribution to a battle and the time it takes to get into a usable position (moving around even a few times in a battle as a sniper can use up a large portion of a battles time.)
so although I agree that draw distance is an unfair advantage, it almost balances out due to the fact that most players already know where to find a sniper anyway.
i'm just concerned if you were to remove the time it takes to find a sniper without first finding a way to increase their stealth capabilities and/or their movement then it would be very impractical to snipe at all. |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
506
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Haven't checked out the new update yet but it seems like the tactical sniper will benefit the most from the new shields with the calmando getting a better defense against the anti sniper brigade,
meanwhile I now suspect that the charge rifle has reached a point of utter uselessness particularly against shield tankers with a three round clip and a charge up time I doubt that you will be able to kill them with it at all, unless they stand still long enough to achieve a headshot with every first shot.
the other rifles will also be affected but I doubt as strongly given their fire rate and that a sniper can always chose to avoid the harder targets if needs be. |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
509
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 20:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote: In truth the SR usually kills most suits on the field that are not heavies in one shot. You don't always need to aim for the full health guys either. Every loyalty Apex I have can be OHK by a proto sniper. So, I still don't see where the lack of balance is and most seem to agree.
Again all I see is another guy QQ on the forums because he wants to redline camp and OHK guys.
. Besides, right now I have no issue killing people with the SR, so I am not sure why you would have an issue. Anecdotally speaking it is a great weapon in balance. You can't use it every game because not every map is ideal for it, so you need to understand that concept.
Much like the MD or Swarms it is a particular solution to a particular problem...its not a general purpose K/D padding machine.
So the best suggestions I could give you are work on your aim if the SR feels weak to you, or even better get the hell out of the redline and help your team flip an objective. Because right now the SR needs neither damage nor range buffs to do its job in competent hands like any other weapon.
Before I really start here let me just say that my personal record in a single round with a charge rifle was 56-0 back before the range change (so going back a little way) and I took part in the event to name an sr. which symb won and I was not even second in.
symbioticforks who also agrees with the general consensus on sniper rifles here btw.
my point there is I can safely say that whilst I don't believe myself to be the best dust sniper I am certainly not a player who has issues with aiming.
(side note: the round in question was won on clones so I can also say that I was useful to the team)
and yes the sniper rifles are weak comparatively.
so your argument is that a fully skilled out sniper using a proto variant can ohk a bpo suit?
so its now expected that in order to be useful a player needs to take proto into every pub round in order to be able to kill almost all suits whilst still being limited to only killing and also being vulnerable to anybody that can be bothered to sort out their sniper issues?
so which other weapons are almost useless until you reach proto levels then? - this is where the unbalance is.
do you not think then that this doesn't leave much space to go to for use in say.. a pc battle where everybody takes out their best gear? -this is where there is an unbalance
could you also clarify for me, exactly what is this particular problem that you see a sniper the only use for? (only one use in your opinion but still don't see an unbalance..)
also can you honestly say that the person you are referring to only ever snipes from the redline? this part of your argument sounds an awful lot like your "go to" response to snipers in general.
as for all snipers in the redline being scrubs.
I suggest that you try to play as many maps as a sniper as you can for two weeks without using the red line areas or mccs at all in any of them, see how many rounds you can make a genuine contribution to using your sniper rifle only. but i'll pre warn you- I highly doubt you'll find it fun.
a real issue in dust is positioning with many of the maps being bowl shaped or having no alternative vantages. (again if you don't believe me,try it for an extended period) (the requirement to use a "vantage point" another unbalance?)
as you also point out there aren't any real opportunities for a sniper to be useful at taking or holding an objective. - in a taking or holding an objective based game? (swarm launchers aside all other weapons can be used for this
And finally I personally have mentioned that snipers need more application rather than damage etc, although I will definitely say they needed a base damage boost rather than a headshot boost initially anyway. the reason I believe they went with a headshot multiplier in a game where hit detection is poor in the first place was to help counter snipers with minimal help to active snipers. -who are the usually stationary targets?
even at the times that we do decide to move around the map we are left with the tactical rifles which have sway delays, the need to crouch, 5 rounds in a clip etc to use against the other weapons in this game. and if you really believe that you can use the range advantage over the rail/laser rifles whilst on foot then you are dreaming.
I'm sorry but the fact is that sniper rifles are not really balanced in this game, there are range, distance ,hit detection, application and mobility issues. |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
511
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:Preface, I haven't played this game in quite some time. Certain constants may have changed quite a bit. The following is how things were and to a large degree how I feel things should be. I recall what balanced looks and feels like. If that's your aim then please read on ahead.
Issues not addressed : Range, Sniping Locations, Reticle, Clip Size, and Fog / Weather effects. Those all factor into having a useful enough weapon to spawn with.
TL;DR
Make base damage on sniper rifles meaningful. And for headshots double that meaningful damage. Not some all in on headshot monstrosity that makes even the worst player instantly good at counter sniping.
amen.
to everything you said symb.
|
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm LLC
512
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's all vary true and to those people who think that its the weapon and not the players that gets the kills here is a recent example of the people that make it easy and probably go on to cry about snipers.
my record recently with a kali tac sniper rifle was 32-0 from less than 200m away.
do I think that the kali is a good weapon? well balanced for running around with?
No, not at all.
so how did I get this result?
because the red berries were going to the edge of the building above an objective and staying still whilst they aimed down at the defenders, allowing me time to align headshots again and again. most were wearing assault suits and only one of them even bothered to shoot back at me.
my point here is that if you act like a lemming don't expect it to end well.
on the other hand if you follow symbs advice, and don't act predictably then you will be bloody hard to hit and probably wont die very often to snipers anyway. realistically there will be easier targets to aim at.
as for the range reduction/red line points again I agree and tried to actually point this out before the ranges were reduced...
if the red line is safety and counter sniping is the best way to kill a sniper and some players don't want to die,
why would they leave the precious red line when they don't even need to worry about counter snipers anymore?
|
|
|
|