DUST Search - To CCP/CPM: Will there ever be a sniper rifle hotfix?

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Summa Militum wrote:

I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going.

Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle?

Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest.

WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 04:01:00 - [1] - Quote I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:14:00 - [2] - Quote The ability to tank up to resist OHK kills is something I feel should not be removed. Having sniper rifles simply able to instantly eliminate any suit on the field no matter what you fit it for is the kind of thing that will fly like a lead baloon with the vast majority of players. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 05:53:00 - [3] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Nope. Just bonuses that are directly applicable to light rail weapons in general (commando). WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.30 06:37:00 - [4] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I was about to suggest having a Sniper Dropsuit implemented into this game that can be quick/mobile, armored/shielded out, and decently dampened but we can't even get Pilot Suits going. Is there any dropsuit in this game that provides some kind of bonus that is specific to the Sniper Rifle? Caldari Commando has both a reload speed bonus and a damage bonus to all rail weapons (sniper rifles are small rail guns, as are rail rifles, bolt pistols and magsecs). There's no way an instant kill will ever fly in Dust, but damage zones have been asked for plenty in Dust. I've only had issues with hit detection in laggy maps, but that's true with any gun. Moving without sway isn't ever going to be a thing for several (what should be obvious) reasons, though I don't really see an issue with a skill that makes a minor reduction in it. As for that suit you want, you just named a suit every class in the game pretty much wants. 'I want lots of HP, lots of speed, and to be invisible on the map!' This isn't ever going to happen because it's obviously not balanced in the slightest. never say never. there's a lot of room for sniper play to improve, but unfortunately we have a very poor sampling of what they can do because of the issues I stated above. And you are incorrect about commando bonus applying to all rail weapons. the skill was updated to read all LIGHT rail weapons. The rail bonus no longer (or more likely, never actually did) apply to sidearms. I was wrong about that one too. I had to go in and check it myself when it was pointed out to me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.01 17:56:00 - [5] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I personally feel that the failures of the sniper rifle are too intrinsically tied to core issues like movement not having inertia, low framerate and poor hit detection to be reasonably hotfixed. Way to stay close minded. If hit detection is that poor than adding aim assist, reducing range, and buffing damage or rate of fire seems like a way it can be hotfixed. p.s. are you an IWS alt? Oh. Right. Am i supposed to rise to that bait or something? slow clap WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 03:55:00 - [6] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. Here, allow me: Quote: Besides the major and difficult to fix issues that Breakin Stuff mentioned I have always felt that the Sniper Rifle should inflict 3 levels of damage: Level 1 Damage would be an instant kill and only obtained through a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:14:00 - [7] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: At no point before this did any person on this thread bring up. Try re-reading the posts immediately preceding where someone mentioned that they felt the sniper should eliminate any suit on a headshot. I posted why I don't use the sniper at all, which is tied to crappy core game mechanics that make it hard to get a good sampling of how well he sniper rifle is, versus what it can do, and why it is failing. I feel no need to rehash statements others have made tht I don't agree, nor disagree with until I get more information. And finally in regards to you berating me for not providing the answer you want or responding the way you feel I am obligated to, kiss my butt. I'm a volunteer, not your employee. Asked nicely. Stay on topic community leader. Quit trying to dictate my role in the conversation. I'm not horribly known for cooperative spirit when people attempt to "put me in my place." WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 19:49:00 - [8] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: should be 5% per tier...like all the other anti-infantry weapons this is how every other weapon in the game is scaled, yes. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.04 05:58:00 - [9] - Quote I think certain statements are getting taken out of context on this argument, on both sides. I'm going to use myself and MY opinions (Not Aeon's and certainly not the CPM as a whole) as to my issues with sniping. Because of the marginal utility and difficulty in making a sniper an asset to the team (if you're not in comms or a freaking murder god pulling consistent double digits per match around 20 kills? You aren't.) I tend to relegate my sniper usage solely to counter-sniper. There are a few technical reasons for this, which I will list below, to expand on my opening statement. 1: Hit detection. Do I really need to elaborate here? 2: Low FPS/Lag make it difficult to center the sniper crosshair consistently on a target, much less their head easily, often forcing an overshoot and constant micro-corrections that in a smoother framerate would be the result of... maybe half a second, two seconds max to settle in a target. Good snipers can settle in on a target almost instantly when framerates cooperate. Not everyone has a magical SSD and the stars aligning to make this happen consistently. 3: Movement inertia is a particular thorn in my side for many reasons. The ability to shift direction with no/negligible loss of momentum makes "pain in the ass" seem like a rather understated description of the process of lining up a body shot, much less a headshot. And because sniper rifles are hitscan, you cannot lead the target and figure out where along his path you can release. This is actually why forge snipers are largely more successful at blapping dropsuits. Once you know the timing of the shot flying, you can lead the target and release about when he's going to intersect with the projectile. With the sniper rifle you have that brief, not-moment as the reticle flashes red to pull a perfect shot. These are the technical issues that make it extremely hard for me to gauge the utility/usefulness of sniping as a whole. Now, let's go over some of the issues that occur on the target side which contribute to the hatred of snipers, or at least the ones I actually lend validity to (standing still and getting ya head blown off in your Rattati Gk.0 suit by an opportunist with a thale isn't exactly something I have an abundance of sympathy for). 1: One-shot kills... This is a skillshot, pure and simple, and in my opinion, a valid playstyle. But by the same token, I feel that being able to tank up and build a suit intended to survive a sniper shot (or two in the case of some sentinels) is a valid playstyle method as well. Action/counter interplay should be preserved. But I'm not particularly against one shot kills as a potential, rather than an absolute. 2: Range. The sniper rifles outrange every single weapon in the game, by no less than 50m in the case of the tactical sniper and ranging up to 150 for the standard sniper. This means a ranging shot from a sniper rifle can often ONLY be answered with another sniper rifle or a OB, or a lot of high-risk approach which is almost invariably done as a suicidal gesture in the redline with the loss of a suit/LAV/dropship a certainty rather than a risk. 3: Draw Distance. This is the big kahuna right here that everyone misses but contributes to the difficulty of countering snipers. There is no weapon that renders infantry past 175m (including the forge gun) that is not another sniper rifle. If the sniper is not rendered to the target this means also that the sniper shot contrails which have been used in the past to track snipers back to be countered, also do not render. Most light weapons do not render infantry past about 120-150m, period. #3 often makes it IMPOSSIBLE to retaliate against a sniper whether in the redline or on a hill crest to the side in a valid engagement area. Because if you cannot render it, you cannot see it, which means killing it is impossible. Is this the fault of sniper players? Absolutely not. Draw distance limits were a memory-saving response that was used to keep the game from going too choppy. But it creates it's own balance problems. The draw distance limit was why thale users in the past with 500m+ optimal/absolute ranges could not be killed by anyone except another thale user. Because they could sit in the redline 200-250m back, sight in a high traffic area and kill with impunity, and other sniper rifles could perform similar feats, albeit with more difficulty, was why sniper rifle ranges were nerfed to force snipers to come to ranges where someone approaching the redline CAN RENDER THEM and retaliate. 4: The redline. Snipers can hide so deep in the redline that killing one requires either another sniper rifle, or a willingness to sacrifice an entire fitting to kill one upon success, much less if the sniper manages to kill you and survive. This has historically been a MAJOR and valid complaint that snipers could kill with impunity but killing them back means you have to die in a fit to get them. Or you had to countersnipe them. When the only counter to something is itself, you have an imbalance that MUST be addressed. 90% of the nerfs to snipers, 90% of the issues sniper users have had to put up with, and 90% of why sniper rifles have been in the past, and will be in the future considered OP regardless of reality can be tracked right back to #3 and #4. Draw distance limitations combined with # 4, the redline have created a situation that does not exist in any other first person shooter. An environment where snipers can enjoy long killstreaks and realistically, greater safety than any other player in the game including tank drivers. This is why snipers have "enjoyed" multiple nerfs that, deserved or not, were absolutely necessary. So, does this make my stance clear on why technical issues in DUST 514 create problems with the sniper rifle that obscure the failure points and balance of the weapons to where balance is needlessly hard? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 20:37:00 - [10] - Quote I'm not going to bother with your comparison od your "IWS "alt" insult as being legitimate feedback, so we'll move along. Samantha Hunyz wrote: In a nutshell, the range is too much for the system so it has to be reduced, but should come with a trade off. SO to put into practice a balanced environment we need to combine both Breakings and Aeons idea for balance as well as mine. Nerf: (Breaking Stuff) concerns about low framerates and bad hit detection) range needs to be reduced more towards 100-150 ms tops. Buff: (Aeon ) normalize the damage jump between tiers as so that the officer damage isn't that great over proto as it is. The only thing this will accomplish is bringing snipers in close and forcing them to crouch in easy attack range. If the sniper-sway is removed you introduce High-power quick-scoping at 150m that completely eliminates the utility of tac rifles in DUST. Quote: Buff- give aim assist at the lowest level to help bullet magnetism. High alpha weapons with potential for OHK should never be allowed Aim assist for any reason. But the main problem with this idea is that Aim Assist pulls rounds natively towards center mass, so you introduce the ability to "slop ball" headshots by aiming a bit above the head of the target. magnetism will pull the round low, most likely intersecting the head and removing the skillshot quality from headshots. This is a balance nightmare looking for a place to happen. Quote: But what do I know, constructive criticism never seems welcome. Your response to a viewpoint you didn't want to hear/didn't offer what you wanted them to say was to offer insult and imply that the person doesn't have a clue what they speak of. So here's an answer: No, there is no plan on the table to hotfix sniper rifles at this time that I am aware of. Given the issues inherent to sniping, I don't see that happening any time in the near future. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 21:30:00 - [11] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: @ Breakin While I would agree with you a lot of the problem for snipers is hard to fix technical issues or problems, is there any real harm with making damage/range inversely proportional? Also, what is the feasibility of changing the sway mechanic so that it only becomes active while scoping to prevent quick scopes, but does not "reset" when a player simply moves laterally if they are already scoped? that's a tech question, honestly. I don't know if lateral movement is a thing that can be separately set. But damage to range being inversely proportional isn't something I have issues with by itself. One of the things I'm looking at, though, is "ease of use" 150m snipers doing a lot of damage isn't necessarily bad. But if it's easier to quickscope a sniper rifle than it is to use a tac rifle then there's a problem. This damn game is a blender of weird decisions. But having to crouch inside of 150m (this one's me looking out for the snipers) makes them basically meat for (my other pet peeve) hold-charge forge snipers. Assault forges are less of a problem because they can't hold the charge and sight in on a crouched sniper. Sure it'll be easier. But the closer we bring snipers to Destiny style sniping or worse, Call of Duty style sniping the less the game is going to feel like DUST. Honestly I wouldn't have a problem if you could shoot a sniper standing as long as you obeyed the scope sway needing to settle. This is actually one of the topics I poke at and try to make work on occasion, without breaking snipers or making them an IWIN button. And the problems aren't inherent to the guns or the dropsuits you load them on so much as the inherent circumstances that dictate how you can engage with said guns. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 22:09:00 - [12] - Quote someone told me the symbs does the same damage if you snap fire it versus full charge. if that's the case it needs a look. Quote: Attention 4 this is relatively balanced due to a lack of sniping positions please bear in mind most players already know where to find dust snipers, this gives a sniper a brief chance to escape before the scans, scouts, ads etc otherwise they'd be unusable, especially during inner map sniping. There is no reality in which the draw distance limit isn't an unfair advantage. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.06 23:35:00 - [13] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: The only counter to a sniper IS another sniper, always has been always will be. That's the nature of a sniper. First part of the statement is a game balance problem. Second part of the statement is an outright fallacy. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.07 05:16:00 - [14] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: But in most shooter's, if not all, the only counter to a sniper, is in-fact, another sniper. Even in the Battlefield Series, most of the counter-play against sniper's, IS a sniper. There is a wide gulf of difference between "snipers are protected by their ability to hide effectively in cover and hiding in the bushes keeps you from seeing them" and "Snipers are protected by their ability to not be rendered by the game engine at all." WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.