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No-one-ganks like-Gaston
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
131
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
The problems I see with letting platoons into FW are:
1. When you've got a full 16 man team, or even a not quite filled 12-15, there isn't really room for anyone else to get in on that faction fight. You're locking people out of a match because a corporation wanted to grind some faction gear.
2. If two 16 man teams are set up on opposing factions to 'kick start' each other, it's just going to be those same 16 man teams killing each other again and again every single fight until:
A. They get bored of stomping the not as good team.
B. They get tired of being stomped by a better team.
C. They lose enough members of their team who have actual lives that they can't continue fighting and they don't want to recruit randoms on the squad finder.
3. Your corporations are kick starting factional warfare? That's great! But what happens when your corporation backs out for one reason or another? Suddenly we're either back to where we started with needing to pick up strays for a five minute wait for a single match, or we're up against the other team who hasn't gotten the message that your corporation has left the field. Which means they'll either get bored of less competition and leave themselves, making it even harder to find a match, or they'll **** their god damn pants at the easy pickings, making it even harder to win a match, making the strays who went in for their factional gear drop out and make it, again, harder on both sides.
You guys have eight man squads now. You will be fine not having a full 16 man team to completely wipe the opposition. And if you absolutely need your full team to win, it's a lot easier to sync up now since two squads will fill up the scoreboard, rather than two and two-thirds of a squad. |
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 15:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Her Chosen wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:I'm against any queuing system where full teams can go against not full teams. And making two separate FacWar queues doesn't help anyone. With any luck, we'll get a raiding mechanic that allows full team action with short notice in PC. Factional is Null-Sec... Don't take Eden out of New Eden Factional is LOW sec. Dust does not currently have an existence in null sec. If we did have an existence in null sec it would be in PC not in FW. FW is not even null sec in Eve. As I pointed out above 16 man squads in FW would break things even worse than 8 man squads is going to. It is quite unfortunate that FW just gets the scraps of changes that fall over from other game modes. Break it how? You can already deploy a full team to FW right now it's just gated behind a cumbersome methodology that limits team deploy to those that know how to execute it rather than it being as straightforward as "start platoon, deploy platoon". All you are doing by trying to limit platoons deploying to FW is protect the organized syncs that are already there! More syncs in the mode means more competition in the mode! You will always have public play that offers full match making protection to smaller groups and solo players.
It breaks it because in the current system squads hold absolute priority based on size for who gets into the contract.
Allowing 16 man squads to hit deploy on FW would give them the contract every time and shut out every person that is not in a 16 man squad effectively killing FW for anyone that does not know the FW channels or does not get the tap from the FC of those channels. Basically allowing 16 man squads would require a much needed reworking of the queue for fw which is obviously not happening anytime soon thanks to PC being the focus.
What people are also missing is the fact that 8 man squads are also going to nerf most queue syncs because of how that system works. The uneven numbers is what kept 16 man queue syncs going because we were able to build squads that forced our team to take the contract.
To give a basic example of that lets say that an 8 man squad is already searching therefore they have priority based on the timer. 2 8 man squads from XYZ channel hit search trying to sync. which ever of those squad leads hit search first is going to enter the match with that 8 man squad that was already searching while the other squad becomes the one with next priority.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote:The problems I see with letting platoons into FW are:
1. When you've got a full 16 man team, or even a not quite filled 12-15, there isn't really room for anyone else to get in on that faction fight. You're locking people out of a match because a corporation wanted to grind some faction gear.
2. If two 16 man teams are set up on opposing factions to 'kick start' each other, it's just going to be those same 16 man teams killing each other again and again every single fight until:
A. They get bored of stomping the not as good team.
B. They get tired of being stomped by a better team.
C. They lose enough members of their team who have actual lives that they can't continue fighting and they don't want to recruit randoms on the squad finder.
3. Your corporations are kick starting factional warfare? That's great! But what happens when your corporation backs out for one reason or another? Suddenly we're either back to where we started with needing to pick up strays for a five minute wait for a single match, or we're up against the other team who hasn't gotten the message that your corporation has left the field. Which means they'll either get bored of less competition and leave themselves, making it even harder to find a match, or they'll **** their god damn pants at the easy pickings, making it even harder to win a match, making the strays who went in for their factional gear drop out and make it, again, harder on both sides.
You guys have eight man squads now. You will be fine not having a full 16 man team to completely wipe the opposition. And if you absolutely need your full team to win, it's a lot easier to sync up now since two squads will fill up the scoreboard, rather than two and two-thirds of a squad.
Thats not right you still would get deployed with small squads/solo.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
I categorically disagree with you on pretty much all of your objections.
Pubs are the designated "safe space" with matchmaking and smaller squads.
Faction Warfare and PC are supposed to be hard mode and "I get to pick whose wheaties I get to sh*t in" hardmode respectively.
There is no reason to cordon off two game modes for the benefit of people who do not wish to cooperate.
Carebear protections should only be allowed so far. After a certain point they are detrimental to the game.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I categorically disagree with you on pretty much all of your objections. Pubs are the designated "safe space" with matchmaking and smaller squads. Faction Warfare and PC are supposed to be hard mode and "I get to pick whose wheaties I get to sh*t in" hardmode respectively. There is no reason to cordon off two game modes for the benefit of people who do not wish to cooperate. Carebear protections should only be allowed so far. After a certain point they are detrimental to the game.
The only time carebares should be taken into consideration is pub matches. Everything else they need to htfu.
I dont know why people come into a heavily team based game and wanting to go solo and get mad when they aren't getting the full experience out of it.
Imagine when SOCOM came out, and some guys complained that they prefered doing that 1 man army vs the entire Russian mafia crap they see all the time in video games.
There are some people that are tired of that, and for those people we have DUST.
Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote:The problems I see with letting platoons into FW are:
1. When you've got a full 16 man team, or even a not quite filled 12-15, there isn't really room for anyone else to get in on that faction fight. You're locking people out of a match because a corporation wanted to grind some faction gear.
2. If two 16 man teams are set up on opposing factions to 'kick start' each other, it's just going to be those same 16 man teams killing each other again and again every single fight until:
A. They get bored of stomping the not as good team.
B. They get tired of being stomped by a better team.
C. They lose enough members of their team who have actual lives that they can't continue fighting and they don't want to recruit randoms on the squad finder.
3. Your corporations are kick starting factional warfare? That's great! But what happens when your corporation backs out for one reason or another? Suddenly we're either back to where we started with needing to pick up strays for a five minute wait for a single match, or we're up against the other team who hasn't gotten the message that your corporation has left the field. Which means they'll either get bored of less competition and leave themselves, making it even harder to find a match, or they'll **** their god damn pants at the easy pickings, making it even harder to win a match, making the strays who went in for their factional gear drop out and make it, again, harder on both sides.
You guys have eight man squads now. You will be fine not having a full 16 man team to completely wipe the opposition. And if you absolutely need your full team to win, it's a lot easier to sync up now since two squads will fill up the scoreboard, rather than two and two-thirds of a squad. Thats not right you still would get deployed with small squads/solo.
Nope, he hit hit the nail right on the head. In FW squads have priority based on size. Currently a 6 man squad gets priority over a 4 man squad for example.
As much as I want to see team deploy in FW I also do not want to see it destroyed or even worse see it become some exclusive club for those of us that have the ability to round up 15 other people.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps?
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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No-one-ganks like-Gaston
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
131
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps?
Two people out of however many others who wanted to get in on a factional match, but can't because a corporation took up nearly an entire scoreboard and there aren't enough extras for a second battle to happen.
Seriously. Eight man squads are fine. Other people want to play your game, too. |
Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
236
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Posted - 2015.06.29 15:50:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:It isn't time to rip off the band aid just yet. We need to get the scaling right on the OB's.
FW OB support is different from other OB's because the Eve pilots get faction LP. Full teams will gain the OB's faster meaning Eve pilots will be getting more LP or rather farming them for Factional Gear for sale in Eve for ISK. A business opportunity that I'm sure hasn't escaped someone's attention.
Sorry, but I agree with the outraged player base. CCP Dust has not been gentle with releases and now they want to slip in slow? CCP doesn't do QA due to their dev team's size. If you are going to be cowboys, then be fing bada55 cowboys! Roll out team deploy and ride the wave.
It is how you have done everything else. This inconsistency is what is pissing everyone off here.
Examples:
Lets add in cloaks, 3 months of shotguns and REs in the back raining and the nerfs come down
Blue Bottles and HMG nerf side by side - PC meta flipped on its head, districts flip like pancakes, pub stomping frustrates everyone, 3 months later - nerf to half
Swarm Gate - Just going to state that every DS pilot raged so hard, the cost of DS was dropped by half to compensate
If you are developing big, then watch the outcome then do that. Commit like you always do. Even if it is a blow out, you will take 3 months to figure it out and adjust. From the CPM response (Just wow. I thought most of you were dead or something), something is brewing, but if we have learned anything, CCP and the CPMs won't stop anything bad in Dust themselves (Injustice is never fixed by CPMs or CCP Devs suiting up and righting it), you wait and code the mistake out. Make the change, rip the band aid off then swing to the appropriate level.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:It isn't time to rip off the band aid just yet. We need to get the scaling right on the OB's.
FW OB support is different from other OB's because the Eve pilots get faction LP. Full teams will gain the OB's faster meaning Eve pilots will be getting more LP or rather farming them for Factional Gear for sale in Eve for ISK. A business opportunity that I'm sure hasn't escaped someone's attention.
Obviously you only understand half of how Eve OB support works.
You are correct that payment for pilots is based on orbitals dropped.
What you are incorrect on is the fact that WP has anything to do with that. Eve orbitals happen as soon as the satellite is captured which takes 3 minutes assuming no enemy shows up and contests it.
NPC orbitals absolutely DESTROYED the Eve link. I covered this subject in depth during the FW event that Maken Tosch hosted. Dust players having no idea when these are available ensures that most pilots will not bother with attempting orbital support.
The only thing that needs to be "ripped off" is NPC orbitals getting ripped out of FW like how it was originally intended to work. That is the only way you will even have a chance at Eve players starting to care again.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
991
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
I have a question for those in favor of Platoons in FW: What prevents your version of FW from turning into the version of PC that we are actively trying to move away from?
Currently, new players are excluded from PC (With full team deploy) because the corporations or groups competing with each other are fighting for something important to them - It's "serious business". Non-competitive players, or players that don't have the the highest level of gear are kept out.
Under this new FW system, what is to prevent a ~10M player who is interested in FW from being kicked from the squad because Serious FW channels want their best 16 to compete because your enemy will likely have their best 16? If there is only one queue for FW, and platoons are allowed in FW, then I foresee a second coming of the same stale game mode that is being overhauled as we speak. But I would like to hear some opinions to the contrary
I got enemies,
got a lot of enemies
, got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy
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No-one-ganks like-Gaston
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
131
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps?
Let's look at it this way.
A 14 man platoon deploys. There is only room for two more people on that team to join. Sure, two people get in, but who all is excluded?
The solo players who weren't lucky enough to be picked by the game. The people who are squadding up to try to get into a match who have more than two people. And why form a squad of only two people? Who would even do that?
So. If there is a 14 man platoon getting into a factional, anyone with a squad of 3-15 players isn't going to be able to get in. They are being blocked from the match. And do you know how many people there are going to be that have squad sizes ranging from 3-15? Nearly all of them.
There are going to be squads from different regions, and if you don't speak Spanish you're not going to join a Spanish team, right? You won't join a Japanese team if you can't talk with them. If you don't have a mic, you're obviously not joining the squad that says (Mics only). There are going to be a wide variety of squad sizes in the squad finder, and very few of them are going to fit that exact number to fill in the gap that your buddies in your platoon caused when they had to leave. And the rest are being left to hang. There will be very, very few, if any, squads that are even in the double digits. Even fewer that work effectively as a team. Especially ones that are made up of randoms.
A bigger problem is that a lot of those squads are doing different factionals. Even if you find a good sized squad or platoon, they may not be doing a factional you want to do. Or they may be doing several factionals, like Min/Gal. But what if you do Am/Gal Or Min/Cal? You don't want the chance of getting pulled into a battle against your factions. You can't join them.
But it's not so much that those people can't get into that one match. It's not that at all. It's that there aren't enough people who do factional warfare in general, let alone the appropriate factionals to get a battle started, for decent matches to even happen when that one corporation that is starting up matches all by itself decides to leave.
Allowing platoons into FW will pretty much ensure that only corporations are going to be playing because corporations are going to be the most frequent players and they'll be the most organized because they all know each other and communicate. You won't be able to get into a FW unless you're in a corporation that actually wants you in that battle. It's already frustrating enough going up against full corporations in FW. Do you know how much more frustrating it would be to be in a corp that does FW battles, only to be denied because 'Sorry, I don't think you're good enough and I don't want you throwing the match for us'. Locked out of FW not just because corporations would own them, but because someone else's opinion of you isn't high enough to let you play with them.
8 man squads at least give a chance for other people to get into the fight. And it's a much easier number to get to, as well as easier to fit onto a scoreboard that already has a few people in it.
I don't want FW to become a cheap alternative to PC. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
It's supposed to be a competitive mode. You enter solo? You enter underskilled?
This is a simple thing: Entering FW or PC means you pays your money, you takes your chances.
Neither are intended to be solo, nor new player queues.
Pubs are there for safe places from stompers. You're getting squads reduced to 4 to lessen that effect.
Pubs are the ONLY intended safe haven from stomps.
And there is no reason for other game modes to be subordinated as safe havens as well.
Part of the original intent was for players to graduate FROM pubs to wars in FW, and organized corps that formed out of pubs and FW would move to compete in PC.
The progression is: Academy --> Pubs --> FW --> PC.
Going Academy --> FW isn't exactly part of the intended progression, but you can do it. The game mode is not walled off. but matchmaking doesn't rule here, and the mobs of organized squads are brutal as hell to fight. Because of that, there is no reason to further punish organized groups by preventing them from using FW as their "moneymaker" grounds or PC training areas.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
2
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
Starlight Burner wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Quote:Corporations will even be able to create a pseudo corp battle 2.0 system! That's the whole point why it's not there. FW is intended for casual players who intend to get a bit better. With full team deploy in FW you will lock out randoms completely or make every single match a stomp. FW is not supposed to be a Pseudo Corp Battle. That's what PC is there for and that's why CCP is making it easier for corps to get into PC. If you want full 16 on 16 matches go into PC. FW is supposed to be different. Whoa whoa whoa, FW is NOT casual at ******* all. You're literally affecting systems in EVE Online on a massive scale!! Bring Team Deploy to FW! We've been asking for this for too gosh damn long! >:(
You affect a small number. We can't even chose where to deploy.
It is a bit above casual, but it's the entry point for casualy who want to get a bit more serious. Allowing full team deploy for it would scare these newbs away again.
Why not use the fact that PC is now more accessible to smaller corps and cheaper to get into? Raid a district if you want good fights. If you would use Team Deploy in FW all the time you will get matched against full teams of randoms every now and then. Especially because so many people still haven't figured out that the game doesn't take into consideration if your squad is a corp squad or just a squad full of randoms found via the squad finder.
What you want is to make FW your own pro place where you can fight corp squads all day for a good match. But that's not how it would work in the end and you know it. Also CCP thinks about FW a bit different. It's not even supposed to be full pro.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
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Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
5
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I'm against any queuing system where full teams can go against not full teams. And making two separate FacWar queues doesn't help anyone. With any luck, we'll get a raiding mechanic that allows full team action with short notice in PC.
When I brought up solo players being put against 1-2 full squads..I was told this is a "team game get over it".. Dust is not built around solo players anymore that was almost 4 years ago..team deploy would help with syncs and wait times..but are you the type who'd rather force someone to wait 30 minutes to get a match instead of having team deploy? If CCP wants to cater to solo players now after 4 years then they need to invest their time into PvE
And if raiding isn't 8 man teams I'll be disappointed
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
Again, Aikuchi, a version of team deploy already exists in FW right now. I can go an put 16 man teams together and run FW with them. The problem is there is a fairly large barrier to getting that set up which means my q-sync gets to have free reign against all those that don't know how run a sync.
F.ex knowing that two 5 man squads and one 6 man squad make a more successful sync or that the timer when you deploy indicates if you got into the same match. Or things like that you can take 16 people currently and queue for two factions at once (Min/Ga or Cal/Amarr) etc.
These barriers have got to go. People think they are protecting folks but in actuality what they are doing is ensuring that the q-syncs today have LESS competition in the game mode.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
I will just try and forget Kevall's OB comment 
But I do agree with him we need to thread carefully. My fear... if we allow 16 man platoons in FW it will be "deploy Platoon or go home". The 8 man squads will be pointless, and "relatively" new people trying their luck in FW will be stomped to oblivion.
I know, I know..."Git Gud" and all that, but in its current form FW will only suffer with full team deploy.
Give FW the love it really needs (ability to select district to attack, defence contracts etc), and I am all for it.
Ohh, and remove NPC OBs from FW and PC.
Problem solved (WP wise). |
olssam 62
Prima Gallicus
219
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Posted - 2015.06.29 16:56:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I was always and still am a big proponent of four-man squads (fireteams) in public matches.
Public matches should have a protectionist aspect to them that gives players and opportunity to familiarize themselves with the game and get those initial social hooks.
That said, to me the compromise to 4 man squads in public play was to implement team deploy in FW. Fireteams are coming to Pubs but only Squads of 8 are coming to FW. There is something wrong here.
Getting this close to team deploy in FW and then not getting it is extremely frustrating. I understand the desire to iterate and use caution, but this is an instance where the band-aid needs to be ripped off. Team Deploy has been a requested and clamored for feature in FW for years. We now have the tools to realize a dream of many many Dust players: the ability to deploy with a full team with little delay. PC matches in less than 24 hours will not be coming to PC at this time and team deploy in FW offers a fantastic alternative to a feature that may not be implemented for months.
Team Deploy will make the lives of those that already sync in Faction Warfare easier, yes, but it will accomplish so much more! A single instigator will be able to enable 15 players to socialize and play Dust together at the drop of a hat. Corporations will be able try out newer members by easily fielding them with vets in FW. Faction Warfare enthusiast will be able to truly organize their forces and move FW to a more concrete and substantial meta. Corporations will even be able to create a pseudo corp battle 2.0 system!
Also, the easier it is to sync the more syncs will be running and thus the number of quality matches in FW will further increase. Jump starting FW will go from a many hour affair to two individuals creating public platoons and gathering the forces needed to kick FW off which means more and more timezones will be able to enjoy a game mode that has been out of reach!!!
Again, I can understand and appreciate the hesitancy to directly implementing this feature off the bat, but the time is now for team deploy in FW. We've waited long enough, CCP, give us the tool to truly organize ourselves for immediate full team play!!!!!
NO i Disagree ,
Fw is not popular for randoms players because of qsync.. And you ask for a deployment to 16 players ????
are you're seriously ?
For a deployments the raiding mode is made for that.
sorry for my bad english 
Chaîne Youtube - Dust 514 FR - olssam62
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Some people are ignorant and defending the solo players. You wont fill the missing spots of a q-sync with solo players or small squads cause if a sync fails guess what happends? The players who came together in a single chat are leaving the match that they have beeing deployed into and the solo scrubs play on their own. You wont prevent q-syncs from happening and you certainly wont force decent players to accept randoms on their team in FW.
I can live with it if a other q-sync beat my team in FW but what i cannot accept is that i lost the match cause 1~3 randoms decided to go AFK, snipe from the redline or even worse go 1-20 at the bottom of the scoreboard. People that freshly came out of the acedemy or those who cant even afford STD suits in FW are a liability for any team that plays FW. The only thing that they contribute are kills for the opposition to build up their OB's.
CCP is allready helping solo players in pub matches by reducing the squad size down to 4. So that a squad wont have the biggest impact onto a game. In my opinion that should be the maximum of how much CCP should protect solo players. If you cross the line into FW you better prepare yourself for real competition and no carebear crap. FW is the only true field where you can measure your skill vs others cause the matchmaking prevents that in pubs.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
517
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:12:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I categorically disagree with you on pretty much all of your objections. Pubs are the designated "safe space" with matchmaking and smaller squads. Faction Warfare and PC are supposed to be hard mode and "I get to pick whose wheaties I get to sh*t in" hardmode respectively. There is no reason to cordon off two game modes for the benefit of people who do not wish to cooperate. Carebear protections should only be allowed so far. After a certain point they are detrimental to the game. The only time carebares should be taken into consideration is pub matches. Everything else they need to htfu. I dont know why people come into a heavily team based game and wanting to go solo and get mad when they aren't getting the full experience out of it. Imagine when SOCOM came out, and some guys complained that they prefered doing that 1 man army vs the entire Russian mafia crap they see all the time in video games. There are some people that are tired of that, and for those people we have DUST.
I'd use 1000 likes on these 2 posts if I could |
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
238
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Team Deploy is being requested because a lot of us have lives and want to be on a team not with blue berries sometimes (not always).
If guarding noobs or stopping stomps is the goal, they need to rethink FW.
Even pubs sometimes get stomped. The MU helped, but scotty is still drunk sometimes.
I don't want to have to raid to have a team fight. I know that several corps will see que syncs happening for one race, then flip and start their own to battle them. It will not be exclusive if you do something smart and put it into the squad finder. Looking for MFW would be set to 16 and people would join into the open squads. Those people will be randoms. Boom! Problem solved.
Plus, we don't even know the timers for the raids yet, or how those will even occur. Sorry CPMs, but raiding is not going to fix team syncs. Wait for PC 2.0 before thinking that any new game modes will fix problems. I am guessing with outrage for districts being farmed (Yeah we all know this will happen) that timers will be made which will be reasonable and say 2 hours, so I am going to try to team qsync in FW while I assemble my team waiting for the raid. Problem is not solved that way. 
Plus we want team sync now! not in PC 2.0. We aren't being greedy, Kain showed that this should have been on the docket when team sizes came up. This was a missed opportunity. CCP should always assume they will get too busy to come back and recode. Learn from the past on that one. Hence my cowboy comment.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
520
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:I have a question for those in favor of Platoons in FW: What prevents your version of FW from turning into the version of PC that we are actively trying to move away from?
Currently, new players are excluded from PC (With full team deploy) because the corporations or groups competing with each other are fighting for something important to them - It's "serious business". Additionally, the assumption is that your opponents are going to bring their best 16, so you need to bring yours. As a result, Non-competitive players, or players that don't have the the highest level of gear are kept out.
Under this new FW system, what is to prevent a ~10M player who is interested in FW from being kicked from the squad because Serious FW channels want their best 16 to compete because your enemy will likely have their best 16? If there is only one queue for FW, and platoons are allowed in FW, then I foresee a second coming of the same stale game mode that is being overhauled as we speak. But I would like to hear some opinions to the contrary
Why wouldn't a starter/learning corp run faction warfare syncs around the clock?
I'll guarantee you'd be able to get skilled PC vets to FC and/or squad lead for training or whatever you want to call it. It wouldn't take very much SP for a bunch of newbros with solid leadership to hold their own. With the rate we earn SP now within a few weeks you can run a spec'd out ADV fit.
This not being a thing is bad for new players that want to immerse in all that the game has to offer. New players in corps that run faction warfare together would (should) be working toward an apex suit. A corp doctrine would allow a new player to have a skill plan based on the apex with whatever doctrine modifications. I guess something like Brave Newbies for Dust.
This gives CEOs a lot of content to work with and the members can actually see a benefit to being in a corp. With loyalty items hopefully being tradable soon, I picture new players having success early in Dust. All those missions being completed while running those FW battles will lead to a mountain of Command Points. There's your opportunity for new players to experience PC, in Apex suits and making a cool million ISK profit even with a loss.
In my opinion team deploy has been the missing ingredient. |
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
520
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps? Two people out of however many others who wanted to get in on a factional match, but can't because a corporation took up nearly an entire scoreboard and there aren't enough extras for a second battle to happen. Seriously. Eight man squads are fine. Other people want to play your game, too.
Or it could be a bunch of randoms from a channel that took a few minutes to join a platoon. This isn't rocket science people. |
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:39:00 -
[84] - Quote
Come on guys you are making me really hate myself for agreeing so strongly with CCP on this one. I want team deploy as well but its just not good for FW or for the game with what we have right now.
The people saying we are just protecting newbs are seriously missing out on the big picture here. It is not about protecting newbs it is about keeping FW playable at all. What happens when no newbs are searching so your 14 man squad can not get a match thanks to no one to fill it in?
The people that can not seem to comprehend the numbers and logistics here should just be glad of one thing. You only have to sync 2 squads now instead of 3 so there was an improvement. I seriously hope that I am incorrect about what 8 man squads is going to do to queue syncs but that is something we as a community can very easily work around and has massive upside in that work around but I am not going to go into that because it is all theory at this point.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
i LOVE the name no-one-ganks-like-Gaston.
Yeah just had to say this. I hope you notice me senpai T_T
Founder & CEO of Fatal Absolution
Skype: Zatara.Rought Email: Zatara.Forever@gmail
official pawn of ArkenaKirkMerc
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps?
There is no mistaking anything here. If a 14 man squad hits search in the current system every single squad with 3 people or more is left to sit in the searching for battle queue until they are lucky enough to have enough people create 16.
Oh wait, while they were waiting to get lucky a 16 man squad hit search so they have been bumped again along with the other squad of 6 that was searching as well. So no there is no mistaking anything. Allowing 16 man squads to search will BLOCK anyone that is not participating in those squads.
Do you seriously want all of FW to be controlled by a few FCs in a few channels? If so I will gladly revive AmarrOne and show all of you exactly how to block anyone from playing if they do not want to follow us.
Damn that sounds like fun. None of the top players queuing minmatar because they are so busy protecting their stats and nothing but brutal stomps brought down by my new ability to stop anyone from playing Amarr FW that I do not want to play.
I am getting more convinced now that we are talking about outright exploiting the entire game mode for the good of the Empire.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Look when it comes to team deploy in FW (low sec) this is what needs to be said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHfVn_cfHU
Again, deezy, you are missing the whole point. We already have a small set of syncs. This is about liberating the sync to allow even those that don't know all the crazy things you have to do to make them work to execute. More syncs, more good fights.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:56:00 -
[88] - Quote
If they "DO IT" I will gladly pillage FW in exactly the way I described and there will not be a single thing any of you can do about it.
Making me and only the people I choose the richest people in the game would be amazing. For clarity I know we would never reach the highest amounts of ISK but we would have the steadiest flow of massive ISK to be seen since corps first learned how to lock districts.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.06.29 17:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:If they "DO IT" I will gladly pillage FW in exactly the way I described and there will not be a single thing any of you can do about it. Making me and only the people I choose the richest people in the game would be amazing. For clarity I know we would never reach the highest amounts of ISK but we would have the steadiest flow of massive ISK to be seen since corps first learned how to lock districts.
If you start a sync then others will to again the whole point. Right now you have a barrier to entry that limits the competition.
Seriously, if I have 1 sync what's the probability it will go against another? Now if I have 2? 3? 50? Get the picture?
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 18:03:00 -
[90] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:deezy dabest wrote:If they "DO IT" I will gladly pillage FW in exactly the way I described and there will not be a single thing any of you can do about it. Making me and only the people I choose the richest people in the game would be amazing. For clarity I know we would never reach the highest amounts of ISK but we would have the steadiest flow of massive ISK to be seen since corps first learned how to lock districts. If you start a sync then others will to again the whole point. Right now you have a barrier to entry that limits the competition. Seriously, if I have 1 sync what's the probability it will go against another? Now if I have 2? 3? 50? Get the picture?
I already said the system needs to be reworked. The argument here is about allowing 16 man squads in right now which I can personally promise will burn FW to the ground.
I have proposed many fixes that would give everyone here exactly what they wanted with some tweaking to make any of them work within what the Shanghai team has the ability to do but no one gives a flying **** about that they just want to get butt hurt when a right call is actually made that does not line up with what they think should happen.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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