It isn't time to rip off the band aid just yet. We need to get the scaling right on the OB's.

FW OB support is different from other OB's because the Eve pilots get faction LP. Full teams will gain the OB's faster meaning Eve pilots will be getting more LP or rather farming them for Factional Gear for sale in Eve for ISK. A business opportunity that I'm sure hasn't escaped someone's attention.

Owned by arguing proficiency 5? You are just delusional now.

The simple fact is that eliminating everyone from FW besides those that want to get into a 16 man squad is idiotic. Not a single person has been able to tell me where I am wrong in the numbers on how it screws over most of the player base and obviously CCP agrees or this conversation would not even be happening right now.

I do not need an explanation on jump starting as I am the one that coined the phrase and taught people how to do it back when I ran AmarrOne.

In my opinion, it is far more fanciful to assume that queue times would be fine because "insert theory" than it is to suspect that there might be a problem. We may not have exact numbers, but we don't need exact numbers. We have a rough idea as to how many players are logging into Dust each day. We know that those players are split across multiple regions and timezones, and we know that those players are not all queuing for FW.

If we assume that 3000 players are logged in at any given time,

We know that we don't have 10,000 players queuing simultaneously for FW.
We know that we don't have 5,000 players queuing simultaneously for FW.
We know that we likely won't have 1,000 players queuing simultaneously for FW.
Realistically, we might have 500 ( +/- X) players queuing simultaneously for FW.
Of those 500, I think it reasonable to assume that a large subset will be party to organized battles.
Of the remaining randomly sized "lego blocks", not all will be evenly divided across the 4 factions.

Point being, valid concerns can be posited based solely upon ballparked figures. We've an optimization problem here with extremely specific output requirements and a wide range of variable inputs. I'm of the opinion that extremely long waits would be much more likely than short waits. And if those lines start out long, they will only lengthen as players discover that the lines are not worth waiting in.

If the goal is to eventually roll out team deploy for FW, I believe we'd do well to first restrict our inputs to readily managed blocks. I'd suggest blocks of 1, 8 and 16.

And you try and call me special?

That isn't a counter argument, it is a philosophical statement on being a good loser.

Balistyc - Uhm, the statement is to improve or change tactics even against steep odds. I FC some PCs and there are many tactics that can be deployed. If a sports team keeps beating your team, then make the next game about losing by less points by focusing defense, then as you improve the losing gap is smaller so you have less of a gap which you can turn into a win with some luck and skill. Stop focusing on the fact that you could win if the other team did not show up! Glory is achieved through victory which requires effort. Without effort there is no glory. You are saying this will be a stomp because I can't beat the other team if there are 16 of them talking. Well you have 16 talking, where is the advantage?



And will those 8 disparate groups stay in matches against team deploys? Unlikely. Will they wait until they have their own sixteen?

So now the prereq for getting into FW is join a squad, wait until it fills then q for a match? Why should smaller groups be penalized with other steps just to play FW?

Balistyc - Penalized? You are going to be in a team of 16 no matter what. This says, let the team fill outside of queue, then join. How is that a penalty? It gives you control instead of Scotty. Team deploy would be waiting to make the 16 or lets say 10+ team then joining in and starting the match. You will need 10 minimum to start. So what is your true argument? You don't like being told you have to team up with 10+ more people? If so, then state that. Not a fear of team stomping.



I didn't see this point brought up by anyone, but sure, lets address it.

I shouldn't have to squad up to play FW. Squadding up should improve my experience(depending on the degree of douchebag you are required to listen to) but it should be a choice I make, not made for me. If I want to fight for the Amarr by myself, that should be good to go. If I want to join solo into minnie FW and intentionally drag down the team, AWOX'ing is real. Closing off gameplay options just so that some people can have an easier time arranging a stomp is going backwards.

Balistyc - This speaks more to the point that some people refuse to acknowledge they are on a team and want to continually try to kick a goal into their own net. You are seeing the team as a group of stompers. The average player hates these counter productive players as well, I do. Especially when they are trying to turn a stomp. If someone wants to go be an un-useful jerk, why would you build the game around that trolling aspect? That hurts everyone, not just the team stompers. It also hurts the team's moral because they see a group of blue berries pull that move and feel segregated and alone and wish harder for some teamwork. I don't support those trolls, why do you?



Now please address the ease with which a team deploy system would be able to be staggered and virtually assure dominant matchups, which has been my primary point, and which no one wants to refute. Putting in place an easily gamed system does no one any good, and it will be exploited, either by Kane or some other equally selfish group.

Balistyc -
Why do you think having 16 guys together makes them unbeatable? I agree this could happen but with the payoff being too low why would that be present. LP is hard to use to fund proto. Where is the driver or profit? - Counter is there is minimal incentive.

I haven't fought Kane but I do hate how a lot of the PC corps used to exploit the situation. They would rather hold hands than fight each other and potentially lose. That is the minority of the population is the truth of the matter.I am fighting for this in PC because I hate what ringers have done to that game mode. At least in FW the payout is nice and low so minimal coordination or jerks rigging the teams. If we have team deploy in FW there will be some monster teams, but we need to be willing to counter them. It is the price for playing FW instead of pubs. Why is that so bad? We may lose. It is a competition where someone loses. Join a channel and understand my view point please. Qsyncs happen today and no one feels exploited. If Kane gives us issues, lets deal with it then.

Blah! Because people will game any weak system.

That people think that this is some unique situation is absurd. That people think the people still playing this game with a history of seeking every tiny edge wouldn't jump on a broken bandwagon is puzzling.

I agree that they are in the minority, however, they are also some of the most committed no life dust players out there. And giving them the chance to screw over FW and profit off of it and they will.

It doesn't even have to be about profit, as it would be about ease of play. If you can manipulate the queue to get uncoordinated matches, you gameplay in between hyper competitive PCs becomes a walk in the park and profitable, all at the expense of people you don't care about.



Hell no. You don't give people a broken system and say if they abuse it we will change it. It will be abused. The chances of a team deploy system in FW being manipulated are about the same as the sun rising in the east tomorrow.

Having team deploy wouldn't stop people from going solo into FW matches. It would only insure that once 16 losers were found they would get dumped into a team stomp. They would then leave the match over time, creating a super easy win for the scrubs stacking.

Put two groups together, one for Minmatar and one for Amarr. Group one queues for a match. Once they get one, the other group fires up their search. Now you have two syncs going for the price of one, and both teams are almost assured wins. Free LP for everyone they like. Everyone else gets left out in the cold.