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4 man squads in Pubs? Then give us Team Deploy in FW!!!!

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:16:00 - [151] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
deezy dabest Evil Syndicate Alliance. 2	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:18:00 - [152] - Quote True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:26:00 - [153] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
deezy dabest Evil Syndicate Alliance. 2	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:30:00 - [154] - Quote True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill What happens when those organized squads can not get a match for most of the day because everyone but the players who want to run 16 man squads have quit. When people know they can not go in without a 16 man squad and do not have the time or the energy to sit around waiting on 15 other people the whole game mode goes down the drain in a hurry. Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:50:00 - [155] - Quote Team Deploy in FW could also make it easier to avoid awoxing/suicide squads. If you unabashedly want to end a match fast I also have a great deal of experience with organizing and encouraging awox/suicide squads. A dead weight 8 player squad jumping in front of your bullets or falling to their deaths repeatedly is arguably more damaging for player moral than simply having a 16 player organized platoon dedicated to 'serious' play. CCP would obviously take measures if this got out of control, but in the mean time there's nothing stopping you from claiming that you are a simple awoxer engaging in the sandbox of New Eden. I will be happy to run 8 man suicide squads in FW when Warlords 1.2 deploys. Goal, die a lot or get people to accidentally kill you in order to kick them from FW. Here's Lee Corwood demonstrating one technique to die quickly. https://youtu.be/RlmZB1r5FQM Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 530	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:51:00 - [156] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill What happens when those organized squads can not get a match for most of the day because everyone but the players who want to run 16 man squads have quit. When people know they can not go in without a 16 man squad and do not have the time or the energy to sit around waiting on 15 other people the whole game mode goes down the drain in a hurry. I guess they'll play FW as often as they did before the increased activity in FW. I went months without playing FW because it was never going while I was on. I'm just not seeing this addressed by those opposed to this.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:54:00 - [157] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill What happens when those organized squads can not get a match for most of the day because everyone but the players who want to run 16 man squads have quit. When people know they can not go in without a 16 man squad and do not have the time or the energy to sit around waiting on 15 other people the whole game mode goes down the drain in a hurry. Which is why I've stated in the past that we need various outlets for smaller games without compromising the competitive and organised spirit of FW. Perhaps in FW we could work out battles on complex sizes. 4v4's in the Smalls 8v8's for our Mediums 16vs 16 for the most valuable Large Complexes Players can still be competitive though on different levels. New players can be placed into smaller more manageable conflicts. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Darken-Sol Intruder Excluder 2	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:59:00 - [158] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Personally, I think splitting queues sends the message that the meta for FW doesn't matter. If that's what it takes to broker a compromise on this issue, then so be it, but it really doesn't make sense if we are to believe that the results of FW battles in Dust matter to EVE. Why couldnt they just put team deploy against team deploy. Similar to how squads fight squads Crush them
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 00:05:00 - [159] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Personally, I think splitting queues sends the message that the meta for FW doesn't matter. If that's what it takes to broker a compromise on this issue, then so be it, but it really doesn't make sense if we are to believe that the results of FW battles in Dust matter to EVE. Why couldn't they just put team deploy against team deploy. Similar to how squads fight squads They could sure but would a sixteen man queue even work if there was no opposing 16 man queue? Again it's a matter of punishing those who wish to play in a large group. I mean I am not adverse to good fights......the lack of them is what keeps me on and offing session in Dust. However FW needs to be treated as something other than a LP grind/faucet or Public Matches 2.0. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.06.30 01:15:00 - [160] - Quote True Adamance hit's the nail on the head. Public matches are designed with match making and soon four-man squads to cater to fireteams (4 man groups) and solo players. FW deserves to be just as much of an end-game as Planetary Conquest. And those that want to experience group play in a game mode designed for it with friendly fire shouldn't be punished. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:21:00 - [161] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: So you are fighting here for the solo playing militia scrub who either camps in the redline or goes 1-20. Those guys contribute nothing to the game as just beeing cannonfodder. I play entirely support roles. Rep logi, speed hacker, and forge gun AV, and I swap between them throughout the match as needed. (I'm considering AV support in this case because I play it defensively, keeping enemy vehicles back rather than seeking them out for destruction, and use the forge gun to counter snipe where I can.) I don't do much killing. But matches, Faction War and pub, have been won damn near entirely because of me. I'm not saying all of them or even many, but a decent few. And I am a solo player. When the enemy has all the objectives I drop an uplink nearby, run in, grab the hack, drop an RE, run out for the next objective and bomb the reds who try to counter-hack, giving my team members a few more seconds to get into position and hunker down, while I take the next objective that's less defended now that they need men to take the lost objective back. And I continue this cycle. I keep out of the way, and keep the objectives out of the enemy's hands. This is how I help as a solo player. When my team is under heavy fire and I'm a logi, I pick them up when they drop and I keep as many running and gunning as possible, not just the heavies. The machine gun may be an infantry dropper, but two or three people alone can't hold a position very well, and certainly can't keep eyes open for gankers on all sides. If you're missing armor you get reps. That's it. I'm not the best logi, but I know I'm a good one. In nearly all of these situations I know that objective would be lost without me if it gets pushed with any decent amount of force. I rarely see a logi unless it's a pub domination match and they're farming WP off a heavy. I guess they see me with the rep tool and think I have the whole team covered. I am dedicated as a logi and do not skimp on the gear I put on it like I do my other suits. I don't give one single ** how much ISK I lose or how much SP I gain. I do my best to keep my team alive. This is how I help as a solo player. If an enemy has a tank on the field or a dropship in the skies and they're closing in, removing it from the map is important. The obvious conclusions are that the tank is going to suppress or attempt to take out the team, and the dropship is going to plant uplinks in otherwise impossible to reach places. And if there aren't more pressing matters to attend to, like a swarm of incoming reds, I go AV and try to take it out or keep it back as soon as possible. When I know there's a sniper watching the field I go AV so I can take the first hit if they catch me scoping them out to determine their location and take them out when I come back after the second, if, hopefully, there even is a second. A decent sniper isn't going to let you live long enough to have a firefight with them and a heavy won't move nearly fast enough to escape a second shot, assuming they survive the first. When I respawn I find a good position and take them out. This is how I help as a solo player. You could argue that the matches would go more smoothly if I were in a squad. You could argue I would do better myself in a squad if I had proper support and could communicate what I was doing. Hell, you could even be pessimistic and argue that by going solo and hacking objectives I'm ruining carefully laid plans of the people running squads in that match. My point here is that you shouldn't discredit a solo player just because they're being independent in a team game. A solo player who does well against a team of well organized adversaries is someone I'd want on my side, ability to communicate or no. Now if you were specifically talking about solo players fresh from academy in militia gear wandering into FW and having no clue what they're getting into, yes. That's fine. They shouldn't be there and they'll learn that soon enough. But they shouldn't be denied the chance to learn, just like I shouldn't be denied the chance to play. Bright Cloud wrote:** And shall i remind you who is kickstarting FW each time so that the "solo player" can enjoy it? Its the Q-syncers who gather 32 players so that YOU actually get a estimated timer on your match. Those guys are the people who keep FW alive. Yes, that's nice. I appreciate that. I enjoy Faction War the times I'm able to get in. Never had a bad match (except against Cap. Acq.). But just because a group of people are kickstarting Faction War doesn't mean they should get to decide how the game works. And if it's that same group of people 'keeping FW alive' it doesn't mean the game mode should cater to them. It means something is wrong and it needs to be fixed so it's a more easily accessible game mode. Faction War shouldn't be on life support thanks to a small group of dedicated players. And 16 man squads would ruin the game mode for a lot of people who don't have many connections or friends in Dust. It's a team game, yes, but you're already helping your team by supressing oncoming enemies, dropping uplinks/hives, scanning, hacking objectives, etc. And you can do that just fine solo. I am a team player. I love Faction War. I love the challenge. It's a hell of a lot more fun than pubs. I just don't want to be forced to squad up to play. And I really do think that allowing 16 man squads will cause certain corporations and groups to completely own Faction Warfare.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:22:00 - [162] - Quote If you have the knowledge and capability to squad and you choose not to in a game mode that was designed with the intent of catering to more and more organized players you have no one to blame but yourself. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:24:00 - [163] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: TL;DR: I am a dedicated team player who genuinely wants to help the team, but prefers to run solo and doesn't want to be forced into squadding up just to play a game mode. I also think that allowing 16 man squads would allow certain corporations or groups to basically own FW.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:28:00 - [164] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: If you have the knowledge and capability to squad and you choose not to in a game mode that was designed with the intent of catering to more and more organized players you have no one to blame but yourself. I don't think you read my post. That's fine. It's a lot of **** to go through to build up to a small point. But please at least read the last two paragraphs.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:32:00 - [165] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If you have the knowledge and capability to squad and you choose not to in a game mode that was designed with the intent of catering to more and more organized players you have no one to blame but yourself. I don't think you read my post. That's fine. It's a lot of **** to go through to build up to a small point. But please at least read the last two paragraphs. Again the paranoia surrounding team deploy allowing a small group to take over FW is downright silly. With the tools to sync easily and properly no matter your language and no matter if you have a mic or anything else means that the current sync groups will get outnumbered by those that are able to easily organize using the system. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:36:00 - [166] - Quote To address Gaston's post ...... there is no doubt you are doing something. However as much as you demand others understand your perspective of your efforts in FW you too must attempt to understand the perspective others who play the mode, especially those like myself who take the mode very seriously, and make it as competitive as possible. In any instance where I could choose you as a solo player or any other player willing to communicate and function with the squad the choice is immediately clear. This is not because I want to force you out of the game mode but because I want to ensure those in my session do have a firm grasp of the tactics we will be using and can relay information back to the squad leader to then act upon. This voiced player is a significantly more 'reliable' asset to the squad. And that reliability is what is important. Though as Kain said.....and I have no idea why I am agreeing with him today..... if you enter into FW and are one of those individuals who are complaining about organised groups you do have no one to blame but yourself. These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:52:00 - [167] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If you have the knowledge and capability to squad and you choose not to in a game mode that was designed with the intent of catering to more and more organized players you have no one to blame but yourself. I don't think you read my post. That's fine. It's a lot of **** to go through to build up to a small point. But please at least read the last two paragraphs. Again the paranoia surrounding team deploy allowing a small group to take over FW is downright silly. With the tools to sync easily and properly no matter your language and no matter if you have a mic or anything else means that the current sync groups will get outnumbered by those that are able to easily organize using the system. I'm not saying that small groups are going to willfully, or even knowingly, take control of FW. If a full 16 man squad can be deployed quickly and easily all at once, it'd be a simple thing for that team to just be better than the ragtag randoms they may face and make said randoms drop out. The problem isn't that we won't be able to build up a sixteen man team at all. It's that we'd be doing it with strangers from squad finder who all want to do their own thing or want to take lead and have no respect for one another while the people who have already been syncing up together for months know the drill, know their places, know how to do their jobs, and know how to take orders. It isn't that we can't match them in numbers. It's that, if they wanted to, they really, seriously could basically own FW without even trying or meaning to. And the only people who could match them are another committed, organized team. Which you aren't going to get from squad finder randoms. Giving everyone the tools to make a 16 man squad doesn't even the playing field, it makes things cumbersome for anyone who isn't already experienced in leading large groups of people and easier for the ones who are. And the ones who are are the ones who already sync, and the ones who aren't are damn near everyone else. And the players without experience aren't going to suddenly gain it by running factionals with randoms, because one, it'd be frustrating as hell, two, leading isn't everyone's gig, and three, if your randoms don't want to take orders they're not going to take orders and things are going to fall apart, regardless. In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their ****, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:57:00 - [168] - Quote True Adamance wrote: To address Gaston's post ...... there is no doubt you are doing something. However as much as you demand others understand your perspective of your efforts in FW you too must attempt to understand the perspective others who play the mode, especially those like myself who take the mode very seriously, and make it as competitive as possible. In any instance where I could choose you as a solo player or any other player willing to communicate and function with the squad the choice is immediately clear. This is not because I want to force you out of the game mode but because I want to ensure those in my session do have a firm grasp of the tactics we will be using and can relay information back to the squad leader to then act upon. This voiced player is a significantly more 'reliable' asset to the squad. And that reliability is what is important. Though as Kain said.....and I have no idea why I am agreeing with him today..... if you enter into FW and are one of those individuals who are complaining about organised groups you do have no one to blame but yourself. These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... I have absolutely no qualms with organized groups. The other team has a good squad running together and my team is all Final Fantasy one man army wanna-bes, myself included? That's fine. I'll take my beating. I ran solo by choice. I have a problem with organized groups of 16 people being able to deploy all at once. It's one thing to fight a squad of just six, or even the upcoming eight people. Fighting a full group of 16 is silly. Factional Warfare is competitive. That's fine. I get that. It's why I play. But Factional Warfare isn't PC. I'm not running factionals to fight against a full team of Capital Acquisition.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:01:00 - [169] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:02:00 - [170] - Quote True Adamance wrote: These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... This made me lol. I just imagined a bunch of Duster war barges jumping through Amamake without a care in the world. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:08:00 - [171] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: To address Gaston's post ...... there is no doubt you are doing something. However as much as you demand others understand your perspective of your efforts in FW you too must attempt to understand the perspective others who play the mode, especially those like myself who take the mode very seriously, and make it as competitive as possible. In any instance where I could choose you as a solo player or any other player willing to communicate and function with the squad the choice is immediately clear. This is not because I want to force you out of the game mode but because I want to ensure those in my session do have a firm grasp of the tactics we will be using and can relay information back to the squad leader to then act upon. This voiced player is a significantly more 'reliable' asset to the squad. And that reliability is what is important. Though as Kain said.....and I have no idea why I am agreeing with him today..... if you enter into FW and are one of those individuals who are complaining about organised groups you do have no one to blame but yourself. These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... I have absolutely no qualms with organized groups. The other team has a good squad running together and my team is all Final Fantasy one man army wanna-bes, myself included? That's fine. I'll take my beating. I ran solo by choice. I have a problem with organized groups of 16 people being able to deploy all at once. It's one thing to fight a squad of just six, or even the upcoming eight people. Fighting a full group of 16 is silly. Factional Warfare is competitive. That's fine. I get that. It's why I play. But Factional Warfare isn't PC. I'm not running factionals to fight against a full team of Capital Acquisition. Whereas I am. In many respects this is where we fundamentally disagree with the vision of FW. I'd like to see organised groups create their own warzones in systems of their choosing or at the behest of EVE corps in which conflicts are bitter, competitive, and demand organisation and team work from those involved. This ideal however does preclude solo players from earning LP. It does however relegate them to less contested systems where large and more competitive entities are not deployed or into PvE missions for the factions themselves. I'm sorry but at present time I am unwilling to compromise on my stance that this game should not penalise players who wish to treat the mode with some level of competitive spirit or as end game content forcing them down to cater to smaller groups and solo players. It should be its own game mode that can encompass all kinds of players but with a distinct focus on militia communities and the efforts of the group. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:14:00 - [172] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: True Adamance wrote: These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... This made me lol. I just imagined a bunch of Duster war barges jumping through Amamake without a care in the world. Last time I was in Ammamake it was quiet as all hell. Eerie really. No Minmatar. No Pirates. Just Purple. But I do see your point...... I was more imagining a bunch of Dusters jumping in in assorted Destroyers and encountering a frigate fleet typing in local their confusion as to why they are the ones being slapped around. Hell I even remember rebuking to a ....admittedly rather recognisable Duster on these forums.... because the guy wouldn't equip more than his Orbital Laser S ammo and T1 modules because he was convinced that he'd be unable to switch ammo types and fight back if an enemy jumped onto him...... I walked away head in my hands. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Darken-Sol Intruder Excluder 2	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:15:00 - [173] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Personally, I think splitting queues sends the message that the meta for FW doesn't matter. If that's what it takes to broker a compromise on this issue, then so be it, but it really doesn't make sense if we are to believe that the results of FW battles in Dust matter to EVE. Why couldn't they just put team deploy against team deploy. Similar to how squads fight squads They could sure but would a sixteen man queue even work if there was no opposing 16 man queue? Again it's a matter of punishing those who wish to play in a large group. I mean I am not adverse to good fights......the lack of them is what keeps me on and offing session in Dust. However FW needs to be treated as something other than a LP grind/faucet or Public Matches 2.0. Itd be corp battles. A big stone kills several birds Crush them
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:17:00 - [174] - Quote True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Can you see why I think 16 man squads for FW is a bad thing, then? If a 16 man squad of randoms can't hope to stand up against an organized corp or FW channel group, that FW basically becomes a corporation playground? And it's either join a strong FW corp and hope they pick you out of their line-up of favorites or tough luck? My fears may seem silly, but as someone with no connections in Dust but still enjoys FW, it feels like my favorite game mode would be taken from me in favor of the more 'hardcore' players. When, really, do you actually need a full 16 man squad to enjoy yourselves in a match? Is there anything at all wrong with just going '8 is better than 6' and adding two more people to your regular crew?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:18:00 - [175] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: True Adamance wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Personally, I think splitting queues sends the message that the meta for FW doesn't matter. If that's what it takes to broker a compromise on this issue, then so be it, but it really doesn't make sense if we are to believe that the results of FW battles in Dust matter to EVE. Why couldn't they just put team deploy against team deploy. Similar to how squads fight squads They could sure but would a sixteen man queue even work if there was no opposing 16 man queue? Again it's a matter of punishing those who wish to play in a large group. I mean I am not adverse to good fights......the lack of them is what keeps me on and offing session in Dust. However FW needs to be treated as something other than a LP grind/faucet or Public Matches 2.0. Itd be corp battles. A big stone kills several birds Not in FW! There is simply no need to bastardise one game mode to make room for another. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:19:00 - [176] - Quote The irony here is that Corp Battles 1.0 was FW. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:24:00 - [177] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Can you see why I think 16 man squads for FW is a bad thing, then? If a 16 man squad of randoms can't hope to stand up against an organized corp or FW channel group, that FW basically becomes a corporation playground? And it's either join a strong FW corp and hope they pick you out of their line-up of favorites or tough luck? My fears may seem silly, but as someone with no connections in Dust but still enjoys FW, it feels like my favorite game mode would be taken from me in favor of the more 'hardcore' players. When, really, do you actually need a full 16 man squad to enjoy yourselves in a match? Is there anything at all wrong with just going '8 is better than 6' and adding two more people to your regular crew? I do understand that perspective. Surely then you might see the inverse which is mine. Praetoria Imperialis Excubatoris, my alliance has made FW their home for almost a decade now, and FW in Dust has the potential to actually mean something to EVE pilots and my alliance. I want to stop being that charity case of a division that does nothing to help them. I want to actually contribute in a meaningful way to their efforts up there. FW is also my favourite mode. I don't want to see it bastardised into Public Matches 2.0 for the sake of players who don't care enough to get themselves sorted. Nor do I really want to see it become Corp Battles 2.0 either. But FW needs a real identity, it needs narrative, and it needs room for agency and those who want to take it seriously to take it seriously. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:27:00 - [178] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The irony here is that Corp Battles 1.0 was FW. In some respects yes. In others no. PIE Inc, which was what we were back then, would group up when it could and join whatever battles it could. We never had a full 16 grouping then and yet we'd almost always come across a competitive group of players be they a full sync or maybe even a squad. Sometimes we'd find absolutely nothing in the way of competition. It depended on which contracts we chose to pick up. At least back then corporations respected one another, actually cared for what they fought about, were loyal to their factions, and did all that for nothing more than a good series of fights, some contextual value, and a tiny little portion of ISK. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:40:00 - [179] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps? I have to agree with this. Randoms who run solo will be the ones filling in the gaps if there are any. Just don't expect a fireteam to be able to squeeze in. At least not without having someone getting dropped from the match. As a veteran faction warfare player here in Dust, my stance is that the NPC warbarge needs to be addressed. I originally wanting to suggest removing it entirely, but after reading that Deezy, Kain, and other said about the flux strikes and how they compare to the size of an EMP-type OB from an Eve player, I think the best course of action here is to remove the NPC Warbarge's ability to deliver anything else except flux strikes. But at the same time, we should NOT be stopping there. I hosted a lecture about this some time ago and the general consensus right now is that the notifications of Eve-side orbitals being available is just not there or it's not clear enough to the Dust-side players. PS: I'm kind of on the fence about whether or not it was a good idea to limit FW to no bigger than 8-man squads. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:42:00 - [180] - Quote True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Can you see why I think 16 man squads for FW is a bad thing, then? If a 16 man squad of randoms can't hope to stand up against an organized corp or FW channel group, that FW basically becomes a corporation playground? And it's either join a strong FW corp and hope they pick you out of their line-up of favorites or tough luck? My fears may seem silly, but as someone with no connections in Dust but still enjoys FW, it feels like my favorite game mode would be taken from me in favor of the more 'hardcore' players. When, really, do you actually need a full 16 man squad to enjoy yourselves in a match? Is there anything at all wrong with just going '8 is better than 6' and adding two more people to your regular crew? I do understand that perspective. Surely then you might see the inverse which is mine. Praetoria Imperialis Excubatoris, my alliance has made FW their home for almost a decade now, and FW in Dust has the potential to actually mean something to EVE pilots and my alliance. I want to stop being that charity case of a division that does nothing to help them. I want to actually contribute in a meaningful way to their efforts up there. FW is also my favourite mode. I don't want to see it bastardised into Public Matches 2.0 for the sake of players who don't care enough to get themselves sorted. Nor do I really want to see it become Corp Battles 2.0 either. But FW needs a real identity, it needs narrative, and it needs room for agency and those who want to take it seriously to take it seriously. I do see it, but, much like you don't agree with me, I can't quite agree with you. I'm a broken record by now, but I really don't think 16 man squads would be good for the game mode. I guess if Factionals ever actually get their platoons we'll see what comes of it. Thank you for actually talking with me, by the way, rather than simply saying 'no, you're wrong and stupid'. Even though I may very well be one or both of those things.



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