| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
   |
Posted - 2015.07.03 16:29:00 -
[451] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:
Bollocks, people have the notion that FW is some predetermined 16 player sync, whereas really it's for the players who can't commit to being on every day (PC) but still want competitive team games
In case you haven't noticed, the proponents of this want to turn it into 16 man syncs all day. Because rather than duke it out in PC, they want to stay together as a team and play against uncoordinated groups. They are not looking for competitive play, they are looking to create unbalanced matches that they can essentially farm for easy wins, CP, and LP. Their goal is fundamentally uncompetitive. Look at how many blue donut folks are posting as this is the salvation for the game. Do you trust these same people who refused to fight each other for glory to suddenly start being legitimate competition seekers?
Would be an interesting theory, if there were any truth to it.
You'd have us believe that everyone who plays this game wants Team Deploy out of a sense of maliciousness... Despite this game being - quite literally - slated, designed, and marketed a team-based tactical shooter. You are literally saying that everyone who plays this game only wants Team Deploy in a one-sided, selfish display of superiority over others despite knowing full and well that Team Deploy applies to both sides.
Yet, if you actually played FW... You'd see that, frequently, teams Q-synch against each other, sometimes repeatedly over the course of several matches... Lucent Echelon, State Task Force, Negative-Feedback, etc -FREQUENTLY- Q-synch and fight against one another. We don't back out at the first sign of a q-synch on the enemy team (though we have seen entire corporations of 12+ players leave the battle on the warbarge whenever they see us xD) because we WANT more competitive matches.
Hate to break your heart but redlining the enemy team every match is boring as hell. We want more close matches. We want the rush and adrenaline of "maybe losing" and we want to fight hard for our victories. But most of all, we want to practice FOR those competitive matches (I.E: PC). We can't do that against a group of randoms, so advocating for that is pointless.
Some people ask us, "Where do you call home?"
And we say, "Home is where the bullets fly. Where the shells land."
|
General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
50
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 17:03:00 -
[452] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
You'd have us believe that everyone who plays this game wants Team Deploy out of a sense of maliciousness...
Not everyone. But certain people and corps most definitely.
Bringing in a robust system that allows team deploy would be fine. Bringing in one that is easily gamed is silly, because there will be groups who take advantage.
That no one wants to admit this, and instead pretends that those persons who have a history of either boosting, exploiting or otherwise engaging in uncompetitive activities(blue donut bros!) are suddenly going to develop a sense of integrity is frankly absurd.
Will be hilarious when they give it to you and it plays out how I say it will.
I'll necro this thread when it does, to laugh heartily at all you scrubs.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
576
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 17:45:00 -
[453] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:
Bollocks, people have the notion that FW is some predetermined 16 player sync, whereas really it's for the players who can't commit to being on every day (PC) but still want competitive team games
In case you haven't noticed, the proponents of this want to turn it into 16 man syncs all day. Because rather than duke it out in PC, they want to stay together as a team and play against uncoordinated groups. They are not looking for competitive play, they are looking to create unbalanced matches that they can essentially farm for easy wins, CP, and LP. Their goal is fundamentally uncompetitive. Look at how many blue donut folks are posting as this is the salvation for the game. Do you trust these same people who refused to fight each other for glory to suddenly start being legitimate competition seekers?
Who said anything about not doing PC?
Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt. |
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 17:51:00 -
[454] - Quote
thor424 wrote:
Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt.
Doesn't the fact that his corp is basically already doing what he is talking about actually validate what he is saying?
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 17:57:00 -
[455] - Quote
@ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
580
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:00:00 -
[456] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:
Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt.
Doesn't the fact that his corp is basically already doing what he is talking about actually validate what he is saying?
He has no idea. He doesn't play Dust. He just saw another cuunt posting in this thread (you) and his vag started spewing nonsense on the forums. His vag actually types.
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:04:00 -
[457] - Quote
thor424 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:
Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt.
Doesn't the fact that his corp is basically already doing what he is talking about actually validate what he is saying? He has no idea. He doesn't play Dust. He just saw another cuunt posting in this thread (you) and his vag started spewing nonsense on the forums. His vag actually types.
Oh good so running around calling everyone "cuunts" when you have done nothing but make yourself look like an idiot is how you make yourself feel good. That's good for you man, I am glad you found a vent for your prepubescent frustrations.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:05:00 -
[458] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You'd have us believe that everyone who plays this game wants Team Deploy out of a sense of maliciousness...
Not everyone. But certain people and corps most definitely. Bringing in a robust system that allows team deploy would be fine. Bringing in one that is easily gamed is silly, because there will be groups who take advantage. That no one wants to admit this, and instead pretends that those persons who have a history of either boosting, exploiting or otherwise engaging in uncompetitive activities(blue donut bros!) are suddenly going to develop a sense of integrity is frankly absurd. Will be hilarious when they give it to you and it plays out how I say it will. I'll necro this thread when it does, to laugh heartily at all you scrubs.
How is it easily gamed...? How does one form a 16 man team and deploy to FW in a way that consistently pits them against non-que-synched teams without constantly re-queing until they get that one magical match that they know isn't que-synched? How do they know that they aren't going against a que-synched team when entities like State Task Force and Lucent Echelon recruit team members on a Factional Loyalty basis and not on a corporation basis (arguably the only way you'd know, just by looking at the player list).
Once you answer that, is that hypothesis and theory (of which it will always be because there is no way to prove otherwise) worth NOT allowing players to team deploy, if they are just going to do it anyway using current in-game mechanics?
As far as boosting and exploiting, CCP has ways of tracking this. If you think you can get a team of thirty two players into an FW match for the sole purpose of boosting, good luck making those stats look in any way believable. Good luck convincing thirty two people to not talk about it outside of that group. Good luck finding thirty two people who wouldn't do it repeatedly and leave the tell tell signs of boosting.
Even still, we can't punish everyone for the sake of a handful of boosters. There are more responsible players than there are not and there is no reason to make their lives hell because of something that could be fixed by a different means.
And finally, who are these magical unicorn players that you speak of that boost en masse as you say? And to what end? So they can temporarily hit the leaderboards? So that they can complete their daily missions faster? So that they can cap out their SP faster? This isn't making them better players. They're not getting ISK from it. Their LP gains are predetermined and capped. There is literally no gain to boosting in FW save for SP and meta-stats which have absolutely no value other than personal accomplishment.
Those are some of the considerations that need to be taken into account if we're seriously going to prevent team deploy over such isolated, minute, and largely irrelevant cases.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:06:00 -
[459] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this.
No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
580
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:15:00 -
[460] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:
Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt.
Doesn't the fact that his corp is basically already doing what he is talking about actually validate what he is saying? He has no idea. He doesn't play Dust. He just saw another cuunt posting in this thread (you) and his vag started spewing nonsense on the forums. His vag actually types. Oh good so running around calling everyone "cuunts" when you have done nothing but make yourself look like an idiot is how you make yourself feel good. That's good for you man, I am glad you found a vent for your prepubescent frustrations.
It's clear you idiots are going to get your way so now I'm **** posting.
Congrats
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
|
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
580
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:16:00 -
[461] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this. No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself.
It would be cool if you'd biomass
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:16:00 -
[462] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You'd have us believe that everyone who plays this game wants Team Deploy out of a sense of maliciousness...
Not everyone. But certain people and corps most definitely. Bringing in a robust system that allows team deploy would be fine. Bringing in one that is easily gamed is silly, because there will be groups who take advantage. That no one wants to admit this, and instead pretends that those persons who have a history of either boosting, exploiting or otherwise engaging in uncompetitive activities(blue donut bros!) are suddenly going to develop a sense of integrity is frankly absurd. Will be hilarious when they give it to you and it plays out how I say it will. I'll necro this thread when it does, to laugh heartily at all you scrubs. How is it easily gamed...? How does one form a 16 man team and deploy to FW in a way that consistently pits them against non-que-synched teams without constantly re-queing until they get that one magical match that they know isn't que-synched? How do they know that they aren't going against a que-synched team when entities like State Task Force and Lucent Echelon recruit team members on a Factional Loyalty basis and not on a corporation basis (arguably the only way you'd know, just by looking at the player list). Once you answer that, is that hypothesis and theory (of which it will always be because there is no way to prove otherwise) worth NOT allowing players to team deploy, if they are just going to do it anyway using current in-game mechanics? As far as boosting and exploiting, CCP has ways of tracking this. If you think you can get a team of thirty two players into an FW match for the sole purpose of boosting, good luck making those stats look in any way believable. Good luck convincing thirty two people to not talk about it outside of that group. Good luck finding thirty two people who wouldn't do it repeatedly and leave the tell tell signs of boosting. Even still, we can't punish everyone for the sake of a handful of boosters. There are more responsible players than there are not and there is no reason to make their lives hell because of something that could be fixed by a different means. And finally, who are these magical unicorn players that you speak of that boost en masse as you say? And to what end? So they can temporarily hit the leaderboards? So that they can complete their daily missions faster? So that they can cap out their SP faster? This isn't making them better players. They're not getting ISK from it. Their LP gains are predetermined and capped. There is literally no gain to boosting in FW save for SP and meta-stats which have absolutely no value other than personal accomplishment. Those are some of the considerations that need to be taken into account if we're seriously going to prevent team deploy over such isolated, minute, and largely irrelevant cases.
As far as how it is easily gamed that is quite simple. 16 people in one squad and one of their friends on comms opening a squad in squad finder to make sure to serve up a nice uncoordinated squad to his friends. This may sound a bit far fetched to some but we already have people that leave battle at any sign of opposition to protect their stats so I do not think it is going too far to say they would intentionally try to setup some cannon fodder for themself.
One may also argue that this is already possible and that 8 + 8 also makes this easier which would be very true but it is about finding a balance. 8 + 8 simply has less possibility of breaking team builder, more possibility of syncs not even being needed, is slightly more difficult than full 16 deploy to farm meaning it is easier for CCP to track those doing it because they stick out like a sore thumb, and gives everyone a chance to participate as oppose to dropping control of FW firmly into the hands of whatever corp can field the best 16 man group which is what PC is suppose to be.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:18:00 -
[463] - Quote
thor424 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this. No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself. It would be cool if you'd biomass
More prepubescent spewing. Keep showing off the thought processes of those who support this so everyone can be clear that you can not think past anything but your self and maybe the few people you want to exploit the game with.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:24:00 -
[464] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this. No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself. It would be cool if you'd biomass More prepubescent spewing. Keep showing off the thought processes of those who support this so everyone can be clear that you can not think past anything but your self and maybe the few people you want to exploit the game with.
You are an idiot. I love this game and pushed for mechanics to open up the higher levels of Dust to the population WHILE a director of the most active corp in the history of Dust.
These changes would have given Molon, Dark Legion, KEQ, Pheonix Fed, and all the others sooo much content. That has been what's missing. It's the reason why these corps are all dead. There's no reason to be in a corp. They couldn't compete with the small elite groups.
Persistent team play was the only way for those types of corps to hone the skill necessary to have any hope of overtaking the small elite corps in PC.
I'm sorry you aren't smart enough to see that.
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:28:00 -
[465] - Quote
thor424 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this. No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself. It would be cool if you'd biomass More prepubescent spewing. Keep showing off the thought processes of those who support this so everyone can be clear that you can not think past anything but your self and maybe the few people you want to exploit the game with. You are an idiot. I love this game and pushed for mechanics to open up the higher levels of Dust to the population WHILE a director of the most active corp in the history of Dust. These changes would have given Molon, Dark Legion, KEQ, Pheonix Fed, and all the others sooo much content. That has been what's missing. It's the reason why these corps are all dead. There's no reason to be in a corp. They couldn't compete with the small elite groups. Persistent team play was the only way for those types of corps to hone the skill necessary to have any hope of overtaking the small elite corps in PC. I'm sorry you aren't smart enough to see that.
What all of you seem to want to avoid in this discussion is that 8 + 8 is a BUFF to team play without all of the drawbacks.
There is nothing about 8 + 8 that stops full 16 man team play while it does make exploits slightly more difficult so the real question becomes what are you fighting for here.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:32:00 -
[466] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You'd have us believe that everyone who plays this game wants Team Deploy out of a sense of maliciousness...
Not everyone. But certain people and corps most definitely. Bringing in a robust system that allows team deploy would be fine. Bringing in one that is easily gamed is silly, because there will be groups who take advantage. That no one wants to admit this, and instead pretends that those persons who have a history of either boosting, exploiting or otherwise engaging in uncompetitive activities(blue donut bros!) are suddenly going to develop a sense of integrity is frankly absurd. Will be hilarious when they give it to you and it plays out how I say it will. I'll necro this thread when it does, to laugh heartily at all you scrubs. How is it easily gamed...? How does one form a 16 man team and deploy to FW in a way that consistently pits them against non-que-synched teams without constantly re-queing until they get that one magical match that they know isn't que-synched? How do they know that they aren't going against a que-synched team when entities like State Task Force and Lucent Echelon recruit team members on a Factional Loyalty basis and not on a corporation basis (arguably the only way you'd know, just by looking at the player list). Once you answer that, is that hypothesis and theory (of which it will always be because there is no way to prove otherwise) worth NOT allowing players to team deploy, if they are just going to do it anyway using current in-game mechanics? As far as boosting and exploiting, CCP has ways of tracking this. If you think you can get a team of thirty two players into an FW match for the sole purpose of boosting, good luck making those stats look in any way believable. Good luck convincing thirty two people to not talk about it outside of that group. Good luck finding thirty two people who wouldn't do it repeatedly and leave the tell tell signs of boosting. Even still, we can't punish everyone for the sake of a handful of boosters. There are more responsible players than there are not and there is no reason to make their lives hell because of something that could be fixed by a different means. And finally, who are these magical unicorn players that you speak of that boost en masse as you say? And to what end? So they can temporarily hit the leaderboards? So that they can complete their daily missions faster? So that they can cap out their SP faster? This isn't making them better players. They're not getting ISK from it. Their LP gains are predetermined and capped. There is literally no gain to boosting in FW save for SP and meta-stats which have absolutely no value other than personal accomplishment. Those are some of the considerations that need to be taken into account if we're seriously going to prevent team deploy over such isolated, minute, and largely irrelevant cases. As far as how it is easily gamed that is quite simple. 16 people in one squad and one of their friends on comms opening a squad in squad finder to make sure to serve up a nice uncoordinated squad to his friends. This may sound a bit far fetched to some but we already have people that leave battle at any sign of opposition to protect their stats so I do not think it is going too far to say they would intentionally try to setup some cannon fodder for themself. One may also argue that this is already possible and that 8 + 8 also makes this easier which would be very true but it is about finding a balance. 8 + 8 simply has less possibility of breaking team builder, more possibility of syncs not even being needed, is slightly more difficult than full 16 deploy to farm meaning it is easier for CCP to track those doing it because they stick out like a sore thumb, and gives everyone a chance to participate as oppose to dropping control of FW firmly into the hands of whatever corp can field the best 16 man group which is what PC is suppose to be.
So your concern isn't boosting or 'exploiting' but AWOXing? Welcome to New Eden? I mean, that sucks for them, but it is entirely allowed and I'd even encourage it given that there really isn't enough space drama going on in this opera xD
Again, these fears are unfounded as they have no basis or proof. It is merely a hypothetical, extremely unlikely situation. If it really did become a problem, or were a problem, then people would instantly be TKing the one guy from Negative-Feedback on their their team when the rest of us are on the other side, just as an example. It is like the guy running a sniper rifle in FW. How often do you see that anymore? Players learn based on behavior and the unanimous hatred of snipers has forced them out of the game mode almost entirely.
And why -shouldn't- FW go 'firmly into the hands of whatever corp can field the best 16 man group'? That is the nature of competitive. Are you saying that we shouldn't allow organized, competitive groups and entities because it isn't fair to the other team? It was never meant to be fair. If it were, it'd have a match maker. The very nature of FW is that it -IS- competitive and that is what many players find appealing about it.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:34:00 -
[467] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:
What all of you seem to want to avoid in this discussion is that 8 + 8 is a BUFF to team play without all of the drawbacks.
There is nothing about 8 + 8 that stops full 16 man team play while it does make exploits slightly more difficult so the real question becomes what are you fighting for here.
Again, why -SHOULDN'T- team play be a thing in what is Dust 514's most competitive game-mode outside of PC? Are you saying that non-PC entities shouldn't be allowed a competitive experience? That teamplay shouldn't be allowed?
Any 'exploit' you have mentioned here could just as easily be fielded by an 8+8 group, or a 6+6+4 group, or a 4+4+4+4 group. Making it a hassle for them isn't going to stop them from doing what they were already going to do, it is just going to make responsible players have to deal with the hassle in order to play with their comrades.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:37:00 -
[468] - Quote
Deezy, if I'd known I'd need to read all the stupid **** you would post in this thread I would have never posted in it.
I think my brain actually lost 15% of its efficacy reading your stupidity.
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:44:00 -
[469] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
So your concern isn't boosting or 'exploiting' but AWOXing? Welcome to New Eden? I mean, that sucks for them, but it is entirely allowed and I'd even encourage it given that there really isn't enough space drama going on in this opera xD
Again, these fears are unfounded as they have no basis or proof. It is merely a hypothetical, extremely unlikely situation. If it really did become a problem, or were a problem, then people would instantly be TKing the one guy from Negative-Feedback on their their team when the rest of us are on the other side, just as an example. It is like the guy running a sniper rifle in FW. How often do you see that anymore? Players learn based on behavior and the unanimous hatred of snipers has forced them out of the game mode almost entirely.
And why -shouldn't- FW go 'firmly into the hands of whatever corp can field the best 16 man group'? That is the nature of competitive. Are you saying that we shouldn't allow organized, competitive groups and entities because it isn't fair to the other team? It was never meant to be fair. If it were, it'd have a match maker. The very nature of FW is that it -IS- competitive and that is what many players find appealing about it.
AWOXing newbs is a concern yes but as you stated very much a part of New Eden.
My biggest concern is when instead of that other 16 man squad being randoms it is a second corp squad meaning that anyone with 32 people will have a very easy time taking part in the same types of activity that went on behind closed doors on PC districts where the big guys were capping out all at once with a 1 day booster going. Now that we have triple stacking boosters and instant SP boosts at the end of match screen it would be quite easy for anyone with 32 people to gain nearly 10 million SP in about 7 hours while also getting very close to a totally free apex suit for 16 of those 32 people.
I can not say the exact amount of time it would take but based on the assumption of diminished SP happening after 7500 WP and the fact that when both are syncing against each other there is zero wait time it would take roughly 7 hours to cap out the entire pool for the week with as much boosts as possible on top of it. Obviously that would have to be adjusted for what the actual payout cap is set at but the maximum time it could take if the number was more in the 5000 area would be about 10 hours.
I have avoided stating this but based on what I can figure with squad priorities and the 8 + 8 formation Q syncs are actually going to become slightly more difficult thanks to the nice even numbers. If I am correct that means that anyone who wants to sync will have to run squads sizes now of 6/6/4. This gives a variable for CCP to search by to catch frequent boosters. By simple pulling up the matches where that was the squad formation on both sides and checking the WP totals boosters are incredibly easy to catch.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 18:52:00 -
[470] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
So your concern isn't boosting or 'exploiting' but AWOXing? Welcome to New Eden? I mean, that sucks for them, but it is entirely allowed and I'd even encourage it given that there really isn't enough space drama going on in this opera xD
Again, these fears are unfounded as they have no basis or proof. It is merely a hypothetical, extremely unlikely situation. If it really did become a problem, or were a problem, then people would instantly be TKing the one guy from Negative-Feedback on their their team when the rest of us are on the other side, just as an example. It is like the guy running a sniper rifle in FW. How often do you see that anymore? Players learn based on behavior and the unanimous hatred of snipers has forced them out of the game mode almost entirely.
And why -shouldn't- FW go 'firmly into the hands of whatever corp can field the best 16 man group'? That is the nature of competitive. Are you saying that we shouldn't allow organized, competitive groups and entities because it isn't fair to the other team? It was never meant to be fair. If it were, it'd have a match maker. The very nature of FW is that it -IS- competitive and that is what many players find appealing about it.
AWOXing newbs is a concern yes but as you stated very much a part of New Eden. My biggest concern is when instead of that other 16 man squad being randoms it is a second corp squad meaning that anyone with 32 people will have a very easy time taking part in the same types of activity that went on behind closed doors on PC districts where the big guys were capping out all at once with a 1 day booster going. Now that we have triple stacking boosters and instant SP boosts at the end of match screen it would be quite easy for anyone with 32 people to gain nearly 10 million SP in about 7 hours while also getting very close to a totally free apex suit for 16 of those 32 people. I can not say the exact amount of time it would take but based on the assumption of diminished SP happening after 7500 WP and the fact that when both are syncing against each other there is zero wait time it would take roughly 7 hours to cap out the entire pool for the week with as much boosts as possible on top of it. Obviously that would have to be adjusted for what the actual payout cap is set at but the maximum time it could take if the number was more in the 5000 area would be about 10 hours. I have avoided stating this but based on what I can figure with squad priorities and the 8 + 8 formation Q syncs are actually going to become slightly more difficult thanks to the nice even numbers. If I am correct that means that anyone who wants to sync will have to run squads sizes now of 6/6/4. This gives a variable for CCP to search by to catch frequent boosters. By simple pulling up the matches where that was the squad formation on both sides and checking the WP totals boosters are incredibly easy to catch.
Sure, but CCP can do that anyway and already have, regardless of the squad sizes. They keep logs of each match, henceforth why they ask us to help narrow down which match we experience issues in rather than provide, say, a video recording of the entire match itself.
And, let us assume that these 32 guys (because that is what you'd have to have if you wanted to reduce the likeliness of interference and being caught by a third party) -did- run seven straight hours in some crazy attempt to literally spend an entire work day capping out by boosting. Assuming the boredom didn't kill them, they'd have to fight the battlefinder -the entire seven hour duration- to make sure that they consistently got in the same matches and not a single one of them could leave. Otherwise, they'd have other players that you can be -damn certain- would be interfering with their activities and likely posting about it here on the forums.
I dunno about you, but I can barely stomach waiting an hour for a PC match to start up let alone spending seven hours hacking/re-hacking an installation. The very concept wears on my patience and I doubt anyone else has the patience for it. But as said, to what end? So they can get an APEX suit that they could have just as easily bought with ISK? So that they could hit their SP cap -with literally no competition at all-? For what, though? So that they could continue boosting with it?
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
|
|
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:17:00 -
[471] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Sure, but CCP can do that anyway and already have, regardless of the squad sizes. They keep logs of each match, henceforth why they ask us to help narrow down which match we experience issues in rather than provide, say, a video recording of the entire match itself.
And, let us assume that these 32 guys (because that is what you'd have to have if you wanted to reduce the likeliness of interference and being caught by a third party) -did- run seven straight hours in some crazy attempt to literally spend an entire work day capping out by boosting. Assuming the boredom didn't kill them, they'd have to fight the battlefinder -the entire seven hour duration- to make sure that they consistently got in the same matches and not a single one of them could leave. Otherwise, they'd have other players that you can be -damn certain- would be interfering with their activities and likely posting about it here on the forums.
I dunno about you, but I can barely stomach waiting an hour for a PC match to start up let alone spending seven hours hacking/re-hacking an installation. The very concept wears on my patience and I doubt anyone else has the patience for it. But as said, to what end? So they can get an APEX suit that they could have just as easily bought with ISK? So that they could hit their SP cap -with literally no competition at all-? For what, though? So that they could continue boosting with it?
With 16 man deploy they would not be fighting anything which is why I am fight for keeping it to 8 + 8.
Boredom is not really a defense because we have watched the same activity take place on empty PC districts and obviously they do not have to do the full amount in one shot. Is it okay for 32 people to grab 3 - 4 million SP totally for free in just a couple of hours?
The new PC system is also highly based on corp activity which means this farming behavior could be used to complete all of the non AUR missions for all 32 of their members giving them a huge amount of command points which means that they could feasibly use an alt each time to farm up new command points to launch an unlimited number of free raids every day. Making it so incredibly easy to manipulate the hell out of FW will screw up the rest of the game just like how PC did before.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:20:00 -
[472] - Quote
^ it's amazing a brain can be that stupid, yet function a computer and communicate with others
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:27:00 -
[473] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Sure, but CCP can do that anyway and already have, regardless of the squad sizes. They keep logs of each match, henceforth why they ask us to help narrow down which match we experience issues in rather than provide, say, a video recording of the entire match itself.
And, let us assume that these 32 guys (because that is what you'd have to have if you wanted to reduce the likeliness of interference and being caught by a third party) -did- run seven straight hours in some crazy attempt to literally spend an entire work day capping out by boosting. Assuming the boredom didn't kill them, they'd have to fight the battlefinder -the entire seven hour duration- to make sure that they consistently got in the same matches and not a single one of them could leave. Otherwise, they'd have other players that you can be -damn certain- would be interfering with their activities and likely posting about it here on the forums.
I dunno about you, but I can barely stomach waiting an hour for a PC match to start up let alone spending seven hours hacking/re-hacking an installation. The very concept wears on my patience and I doubt anyone else has the patience for it. But as said, to what end? So they can get an APEX suit that they could have just as easily bought with ISK? So that they could hit their SP cap -with literally no competition at all-? For what, though? So that they could continue boosting with it?
With 16 man deploy they would not be fighting anything which is why I am fight for keeping it to 8 + 8. Boredom is not really a defense because we have watched the same activity take place on empty PC districts and obviously they do not have to do the full amount in one shot. Is it okay for 32 people to grab 3 - 4 million SP totally for free in just a couple of hours? The new PC system is also highly based on corp activity which means this farming behavior could be used to complete all of the non AUR missions for all 32 of their members giving them a huge amount of command points which means that they could feasibly use an alt each time to farm up new command points to launch an unlimited number of free raids every day. Making it so incredibly easy to manipulate the hell out of FW will screw up the rest of the game just like how PC did before.
I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't.
My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:27:00 -
[474] - Quote
thor424 wrote:^ it's amazing a brain can be that stupid, yet function a computer and communicate with others
Tell me one place where I am wrong in the fact that it unlocks massive exploits that even break the PC system which so much work has been put into building.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:29:00 -
[475] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Sure, but CCP can do that anyway and already have, regardless of the squad sizes. They keep logs of each match, henceforth why they ask us to help narrow down which match we experience issues in rather than provide, say, a video recording of the entire match itself.
And, let us assume that these 32 guys (because that is what you'd have to have if you wanted to reduce the likeliness of interference and being caught by a third party) -did- run seven straight hours in some crazy attempt to literally spend an entire work day capping out by boosting. Assuming the boredom didn't kill them, they'd have to fight the battlefinder -the entire seven hour duration- to make sure that they consistently got in the same matches and not a single one of them could leave. Otherwise, they'd have other players that you can be -damn certain- would be interfering with their activities and likely posting about it here on the forums.
I dunno about you, but I can barely stomach waiting an hour for a PC match to start up let alone spending seven hours hacking/re-hacking an installation. The very concept wears on my patience and I doubt anyone else has the patience for it. But as said, to what end? So they can get an APEX suit that they could have just as easily bought with ISK? So that they could hit their SP cap -with literally no competition at all-? For what, though? So that they could continue boosting with it?
With 16 man deploy they would not be fighting anything which is why I am fight for keeping it to 8 + 8. Boredom is not really a defense because we have watched the same activity take place on empty PC districts and obviously they do not have to do the full amount in one shot. Is it okay for 32 people to grab 3 - 4 million SP totally for free in just a couple of hours? The new PC system is also highly based on corp activity which means this farming behavior could be used to complete all of the non AUR missions for all 32 of their members giving them a huge amount of command points which means that they could feasibly use an alt each time to farm up new command points to launch an unlimited number of free raids every day. Making it so incredibly easy to manipulate the hell out of FW will screw up the rest of the game just like how PC did before. I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't. My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system.
No, let's continue to hold the game back and make it impossible for groups to become proficient in team play so we can guarantee that all the dev work for PC 2.0 is wasted.
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:30:00 -
[476] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:thor424 wrote:^ it's amazing a brain can be that stupid, yet function a computer and communicate with others Tell me one place where I am wrong in the fact that it unlocks massive exploits that even break the PC system which so much work has been put into building.
Honestly, I can't refute things that are so stupid that I can't see where they are coming from.
It's like reasoning with a really drunk, crazy homeless person.
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:32:00 -
[477] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't.
My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system.
We have seen how far that even certain people fighting their ass off to get team deploy will go to exploit the game.
Quote:'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
- George Santayana
Yet we are sitting here talking about shoving through a system which just like the previous version of PC allows people to make tons of risk free money and even get unique items out of it depending on what actually ends up in the DK store.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:35:00 -
[478] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't.
My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system.
We have seen how far that even certain people fighting their ass off to get team deploy will go to exploit the game. Quote:'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
- George Santayana Yet we are sitting here talking about shoving through a system which just like the previous version of PC allows people to make tons of risk free money and even get unique items out of it depending on what actually ends up in the DK store.
People made tons of ISK in PC because they were unchecked idiot.
You could dominate PC with a few teams with the mechanics. Nobody had the ISK to attempt to break through every 24 hours, one redline at a time.
Lack of persistent team play guaranteed than nobody could contend with them. And it created the pacifist, ***** mentality that plagues Dust.
Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:37:00 -
[479] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't.
My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system.
We have seen how far that even certain people fighting their ass off to get team deploy will go to exploit the game. Quote:'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
- George Santayana Yet we are sitting here talking about shoving through a system which just like the previous version of PC allows people to make tons of risk free money and even get unique items out of it depending on what actually ends up in the DK store.
It isn't unreasonable to ask sixty days of any idea. Sixty days is a reasonable amount of time to see if something works, or doesn't, and if you aren't willing to give a concept or proposal a try for sixty days - to hold your opinions and judgements until there is factual evidence with which to back it.
The PC thing was bad, sure, but let us remember that this is a slippery slope argument and not everything is connected, the same, or doomed to failure automatically. That's all I will say on the matter.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
|
deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 19:45:00 -
[480] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
It isn't unreasonable to ask sixty days of any idea. Sixty days is a reasonable amount of time to see if something works, or doesn't, and if you aren't willing to give a concept or proposal a try for sixty days - to hold your opinions and judgements until there is factual evidence with which to back it.
The PC thing was bad, sure, but let us remember that this is a slippery slope argument and not everything is connected, the same, or doomed to failure automatically. That's all I will say on the matter.
The same could be said about going with 8 + 8 to see what it does with the game. Considering this change also comes along with an almost totally new PC system don't you think we should give a chance to see if that system works and gives people across the game the ability to fight 16 v 16 perfectly team deployed for real stakes while they can freely fill up 16 people in FW anytime they want to with only a touch of extra effort.
Someone asked the real question earlier. What is the rush? Why is it that we have to have this right now without even letting things play out in the slightest with what CCP has decided?
It is strictly opinion but I will say that this thread was started by and continuously fought in to get this rushed through by the person that was behind the total shut down of PC. I would also like to point out that we are a small group here even discussing this because the majority of the faction players are very happy with the fact that they and all of FW is getting a buff here.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |