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4 man squads in Pubs? Then give us Team Deploy in FW!!!!

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thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 504	Posted - 2015.06.29 11:02:00 - [1] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I'm against any queuing system where full teams can go against not full teams. And making two separate FacWar queues doesn't help anyone. With any luck, we'll get a raiding mechanic that allows full team action with short notice in PC. Shut up scrub
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 504	Posted - 2015.06.29 11:05:00 - [2] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I'm against any queuing system where full teams can go against not full teams. And making two separate FacWar queues doesn't help anyone. With any luck, we'll get a raiding mechanic that allows full team action with short notice in PC. Shut it you. You have done quite enough. I don't think I have ever said this before and probably never will again, but Kain is right. Dust is a desolate wasteland these days. It has gotten this way because too many people want to talk about things and wait to see if something will get better, instead of implementing immediate change. This game is dying and near death. Full 16 man Team deploy is something that should of been added years ago along with the introduction of PC, and added to pub matches. 8 man squads are a hollow gesture. 4 man squads WTF? Really? You can have 4 man squads now just form a 4 man squad. It makes me laugh to think that is is going to be a feature that is boasted about. The whole point of dust is getting to play with your corp, playing with large squads. Practicing for PC. 8 man squads is not enough and 4 man squads is just really the stupidest thing I have ever heard. "The game is dying and near death... so lets implement changes that will edge out casuals and allow 'organized' players to *wring the very last ing drops of life out of the game". If you want this game to get to a 'healthier' place, you need to accept, encourage and allow for 'casuals' to play. Steps also need to be taken to prevent them to get their faces ground into the dirt at every opportunity. Eg: We had the 'mu' changes that sorted us into high and low brackets... what happened with high bracket players who didn't like being in the high bracket? they recycled alts every *ing day to play in battle academy where they could grind new people into the dirt, because how dare someone be new and not know that these egomaniacs are the kings of dust. Of course this happened before dust because egomaniacs like to stroke their ego, but we don't need more ways for mediocre players (myself included) to be able to win all day every day forever and edge out anyone who would fall into being a more casual player. I play facwar almost daily. I am in a q-sync almost daily. I win >90% of my matches in those q-syncs that i play in every day because organizational advantages are way too damn good. Play pub matches. Or spend 2 extra minutes to get in an organized match. We've tried Soraya Scrub 514, it sucks
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 504	Posted - 2015.06.29 11:09:00 - [3] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I've always held that the largest difference in balance isn't gear, or even individual skill, but the size of a coordinated group. Having a 16-man team against even... two 8-man groups or an 8-man group and two 4-man groups is a HUGE success differential. If you talk about solo players potentially being in the mix, the joke gets even funnier. Dude, there should be "serious" game modes offered for the competitive. One is PC and the other should be FW. For my RPers, FW is serious biz and it has been a long, long time since FW has been a place of tourism. I say throw the training wheels to the side. Put away the safeguards. In other words, stop being held back by thinking of the solo player. There are corporations and teams who are dedicated to FW but hampered by the solo player (or griefed by them). You solo? Nice! Now off to pubs with ye! You want tougher comp and organized warfare? Good! PC and FW is for you! PC is a bit daunting to you? That's fine, build your resume/reputation in FW with a racial corporation hell bent on dominating FW! That's how it should be dude. If you want to solo in FW, no problem. But the game mode should encourage you to join a comm channel or a corporation. FW is hampered by wanting to bring the casual, LP whores to the game mode. FW and PC should be end games. FW now is a pub match with item benefits. That sucks. Allow team deploy. Encourage organized tactical play. Solo player could literally type LFS in a FW and keep jamming to his tunes, not listen to a word the FC says and play as they would before. They just wouldn't have 15 other solo people ensuring their teeth get kicked in. Oh, and not to mention that because of team deploy FW would stay up for most of the day. For the love of the Dust Gods quit listening to people that want to hold the team play in this game back.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 504	Posted - 2015.06.29 12:18:00 - [4] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Maybe if we say pretty please they will listen hahah!!! I've promised oral several times and we still don't have it
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 517	Posted - 2015.06.29 17:12:00 - [5] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: madness I categorically disagree with you on pretty much all of your objections. Pubs are the designated "safe space" with matchmaking and smaller squads. Faction Warfare and PC are supposed to be hard mode and "I get to pick whose wheaties I get to sh*t in" hardmode respectively. There is no reason to cordon off two game modes for the benefit of people who do not wish to cooperate. Carebear protections should only be allowed so far. After a certain point they are detrimental to the game. The only time carebares should be taken into consideration is pub matches. Everything else they need to htfu. I dont know why people come into a heavily team based game and wanting to go solo and get mad when they aren't getting the full experience out of it. Imagine when SOCOM came out, and some guys complained that they prefered doing that 1 man army vs the entire Russian mafia crap they see all the time in video games. There are some people that are tired of that, and for those people we have DUST. I'd use 1000 likes on these 2 posts if I could
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2015.06.29 17:29:00 - [6] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I have a question for those in favor of Platoons in FW: What prevents your version of FW from turning into the version of PC that we are actively trying to move away from? Currently, new players are excluded from PC (With full team deploy) because the corporations or groups competing with each other are fighting for something important to them - It's "serious business". Additionally, the assumption is that your opponents are going to bring their best 16, so you need to bring yours. As a result, Non-competitive players, or players that don't have the the highest level of gear are kept out. Under this new FW system, what is to prevent a ~10M player who is interested in FW from being kicked from the squad because Serious FW channels want their best 16 to compete because your enemy will likely have their best 16? If there is only one queue for FW, and platoons are allowed in FW, then I foresee a second coming of the same stale game mode that is being overhauled as we speak. But I would like to hear some opinions to the contrary Why wouldn't a starter/learning corp run faction warfare syncs around the clock? I'll guarantee you'd be able to get skilled PC vets to FC and/or squad lead for training or whatever you want to call it. It wouldn't take very much SP for a bunch of newbros with solid leadership to hold their own. With the rate we earn SP now within a few weeks you can run a spec'd out ADV fit. This not being a thing is bad for new players that want to immerse in all that the game has to offer. New players in corps that run faction warfare together would (should) be working toward an apex suit. A corp doctrine would allow a new player to have a skill plan based on the apex with whatever doctrine modifications. I guess something like Brave Newbies for Dust. This gives CEOs a lot of content to work with and the members can actually see a benefit to being in a corp. With loyalty items hopefully being tradable soon, I picture new players having success early in Dust. All those missions being completed while running those FW battles will lead to a mountain of Command Points. There's your opportunity for new players to experience PC, in Apex suits and making a cool million ISK profit even with a loss. In my opinion team deploy has been the missing ingredient.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2015.06.29 17:34:00 - [7] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Again you mistake priority from an outright block. If there is a 14 man platoon deploy guess who would fill in the gaps? Two people out of however many others who wanted to get in on a factional match, but can't because a corporation took up nearly an entire scoreboard and there aren't enough extras for a second battle to happen. Seriously. Eight man squads are fine. Other people want to play your game, too. Or it could be a bunch of randoms from a channel that took a few minutes to join a platoon. This isn't rocket science people.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2015.06.29 20:20:00 - [8] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Kain Spero wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Look when it comes to team deploy in FW (low sec) this is what needs to be said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHfVn_cfHU If they "DO IT" I will gladly pillage FW in exactly the way I described and there will not be a single thing any of you can do about it. Making me and only the people I choose the richest people in the game would be amazing. For clarity I know we would never reach the highest amounts of ISK but we would have the steadiest flow of massive ISK to be seen since corps first learned how to lock districts. If you start a sync then others will to again the whole point. Right now you have a barrier to entry that limits the competition. Seriously, if I have 1 sync what's the probability it will go against another? Now if I have 2? 3? 50? Get the picture? I already said the system needs to be reworked. The argument here is about allowing 16 man squads in right now which I can personally promise will burn FW to the ground. I have proposed many fixes that would give everyone here exactly what they wanted with some tweaking to make any of them work within what the Shanghai team has the ability to do but no one gives a flying **** about that they just want to get butt hurt when a right call is actually made that does not line up with what they think should happen. Yet there's more action in FW than ever with syncs going all the time. It was incentive that was missing before.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 530	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:51:00 - [9] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill What happens when those organized squads can not get a match for most of the day because everyone but the players who want to run 16 man squads have quit. When people know they can not go in without a 16 man squad and do not have the time or the energy to sit around waiting on 15 other people the whole game mode goes down the drain in a hurry. I guess they'll play FW as often as they did before the increased activity in FW. I went months without playing FW because it was never going while I was on. I'm just not seeing this addressed by those opposed to this.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 534	Posted - 2015.06.30 13:57:00 - [10] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Kain Spero wrote: True Adamance hit's the nail on the head. Public matches are designed with match making and soon four-man squads to cater to fireteams (4 man groups) and solo players. FW deserves to be just as much of an end-game as Planetary Conquest. And those that want to experience group play in a game mode designed for it with friendly fire shouldn't be punished. Just because its an 'end game' doesn't mean it should be relocated to those that can exploit it the best. It needs a reasonable point of entry that it currently does not have (and no, these changes aren't going to provide one - go try playing in a public squad sometime, people do not work together). I'd also like to point out that True Adamances words should be taken with a hefty grain of salt as he rarely logs in and almost never plays. I like you True, but you and aero both have a lot of negative traits, especially when it comes to complaining on the forums to get changes you'd 'like' for a game you can't even be said to really play. I'm sorry but cries about exploits are truly unfounded because the system in effect already has team deploy minus the UI for it. Anything that can be exploited under platoons can already be done under q-syncing team deploy (even activities with 32 players) it just requires more effort. I swear this is like people arguing about how bad DRM protects people when it does more to hurt the legit end users. Please post FoxFour's post about syncs to show that it's not an exploit rather players working with the half ass tools that FoxFour gave us. The problem back then was that the rewards were absolute crap. So nobody used them.

thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 538	Posted - 2015.06.30 22:44:00 - [11] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Say there are squads of 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13 searching. There are now 55 people in the queue and there is not a match going on. In the current system it is impossible that it happen to that extent. This is exactly why CCP chose to not throw 16 man squads in the current system which is simply not built to handle that. In that scenario those 55 people now have to wait on groups of 7, 6, 5, 4, and 3 before they can start. How is holding up 55 people and forcing them to wait on 25 more people in the proper number groups when on 16 are required for a match good for anyone? You can do this same math with any number from 9 to 15 and the same results happen. There's an old saying, if my aunt had ballz, she'd be my uncle.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 543	Posted - 2015.07.01 22:42:00 - [12] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: The Attorney General wrote: psyanyde wrote: It would seem that if team deploy were instituted in FW, it would cause solo berries to gravitate towards a corp. Having team deploy wouldn't stop people from going solo into FW matches. It would only insure that once 16 losers where found they would get dumped into a team stomp. They would then leave the match over time, creating a super easy win for the scrubs stacking. Put two groups together, one for Minmatar and one for Amarr. Group one queues for a match. Once they get one, the other group fires up their search. Now you have two syncs going for the price of one, and both teams are almost assured wins. Free LP for everyone they like. Everyone else gets left out in the cold. I know Jadek had already pointed it out but I really did not think about the farming potential until now. Thanks to the larger squad having priority 2 groups of 16 could constantly give each other empty battles all day. It is possible now but incredibly difficult to the point it would almost never happen. Just think if someone were to send out 1 guy to fill up a 16 man squad of randoms and counter sync with the actual 16 man team. Holy stat padding. Thanks for bringing this up and sorry to Jadek for the fact that I completely ignored it when he originally pointed it out. They can do all of this already. It's all good, let's keep lowering the common denominator. Why not remove squads altogether. Let's remove comms too.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 544	Posted - 2015.07.01 23:43:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: SirManBoy wrote: PC is on a schedule and is therefore not a persistently accessible outlet for team-based play. Moreover, pubs are being turned into a paradise for casual players because no group larger than a fireteam will have access to it, and matchmaking is going to attempt to put those groupings against each other as much as it can. That's a huge concession! 8-man squads in just one match type (FW-style skirm) is not a fair trade for the amount of coordinated play and social interaction that is being lost across the entire public match catalog. Is this in support of larger squads in Pubs, or did I misread your post? Because if you think that the biggest problem in Pubs has been that casual players have had it too good with to small a squad size, I think you are mistaken. It is coordinated squads are what have screwed over Pubs, not casual players. Its not casual or solo players who are able to take on newer players and ruin the fun. Mr Musturd just posted the past day or two how he likes to play solo precisely because of how boring it is to play squads in Pubs, and in my opinion that is the crux of the issue. PC and FW need to be the focal points for team play, and there needs to be entry level/casual games for new players, and players who still may spend money on the game, but not play outside of Pubs often. He's saying that the squads size going to 4 in pubs will make MM better and a more casual experience.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 545	Posted - 2015.07.02 00:16:00 - [14] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: They are not going to put anything that has as massive of an exploit as 16 man squads in FW would. Step 1 Get 17 people together. 16 of them in a platoon. Step 2 The 17th man tosses a squad up in squad finder and the original platoon runs a match until his squad is full. Step 3 The two 16 man squads sync against each other. Step 4 The "bad" squad leader kicks anyone that is actually killing people. Step 5 Repeat syncs all day with triple stacked boosters and laugh at your insane profits. I find it odd that many of the same people who farmed PC to the ground are the ones fighting so hard for this system to be implemented now that farmability in PC has been reduced to almost nothing. Do you believe in coincidences? I can guarantee you with a 100% certainty that the NF dudes that are pushing for this would sync against each other to alternate wins. I guess it could happen, but this could already happen. It happened in PC apparently, but it was nowhere near as rampant as you and others elude to. I honestly can't picture 32 people getting together for something so cheesy, how boring would that be? The PC farming was a few people, I never heard of full teams farming.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 545	Posted - 2015.07.02 02:10:00 - [15] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: I honestly can't picture 32 people getting together for something so cheesy, how boring would that be? The PC farming was a few people, I never heard of full teams farming. Full teams worked together many times to boost their SP payouts. I can not find the video at the moment but there was a video circulated a while back where WTF was able to farm well over 20k WP per player in PC battles. This is the same activity that would EASILY take place behind closed doors in 32 man FW syncs. Want 32 people in your corp to cap out in one day with free one day boosters stacked? Sure counter sync into FW which would be unbelievably easy with 16 man squads. Since it was in one match 2100 AUR for a x4 boost on top of that would be amazing. Fortunately there is a system in place now that slows this down but it still works. Assuming the cap is at 7500 WP: 7500 x 2.5 from boosters = 18,750 SP in one match. 7500 x 4 from a single instant boost = 30,000 SP on top of that. Once you add in time in battle SP you are over 50K SP from one risk free match which can easily be repeated as many times as you want per day. That means you can cap out in roughly 20 matches all triple stacked boosters and x4 instant boosts making millions of SP and getting a good amount of nearly free proto gear all at once. Thanks to no search times when countering with 32 people you can figure an average of 20 minutes per battle meaning with only 7 hours in one day you are able to net nearly a billion ISK for the corporation and nearly 10 million SP per player. I usually get between 300 and 800 WP while syncing. Most people I play with have from 50 to 125 mil SP, I personally have right under 125 mil with 4 mil unallocated. Nothing will change for NF with 4, 6, or 8 man squads, it'll just be more of a pain to do it. I certainly don't know anyone who is going to spend $ to boost SP. A year ago, maybe. I think the game needs persistent team deploy and FW is the best way to achieve it with the least amount of dev time. Maybe raiding becomes this, but either way team deploy is needed.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 547	Posted - 2015.07.02 16:58:00 - [16] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Powerh8er wrote: Team deploy would be a blessing to the vets of the game which most of all wants a no bullshit clean good game outside PC. Anyone who opposses this suggestion is a scrub. Thats a Scientifictional fact. No such thing as a no bullshit game, this is dust. Needing 16 men to win a FW is what makes you a scrub. Then again, you don't roll without 5 buddies into pub matches, so you calling anyone a scrub is more than a bit hypocritical. Nobody is saying they need 16 to win. I guess it's easy to not grow tired of worthless blueberries when you don't actually play the game you visit the forum for.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 550	Posted - 2015.07.02 21:52:00 - [17] - Quote Shouldn't a game like Dust be competitive enough that a few groups of 16 couldn't run unchecked in a game mode? If the potential rewards are so game breaking why aren't more groups willing to go after it? It just doesn't add up to me.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 552	Posted - 2015.07.03 01:17:00 - [18] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: thor424 wrote: Shouldn't a game like Dust be competitive enough that a few groups of 16 couldn't run unchecked in a game mode? If the potential rewards are so game breaking why aren't more groups willing to go after it? It just doesn't add up to me. It isn't about the rewards being gamebreaking, nor should that be the only consideration when deciding is a system is robust or not. Part of why I am arguing against the team deploy option is that although it appears on the surface to promote competition, that competition is dependent on two equally skilled and organized groups looking for matches at the same time. I think that everyone can agree that pubs can sometimes be frustrating if you are not q syncing for quality. Being in a short squad, with a team full of muppets can cause much hair pulling and gnashing of teeth at the biblical incompetence one can see from randoms. The biggest issue I foresee is the ability of teams to create non-competitive matches. It wouldn't be difficult, with so few players, to massage the q and get 16 Corp a versus 16 idiots who q'd up, while the B team gets 16 more idiots who queued up. Run into another stack, back out, try again. Rinse and repeat for easy, easy LP. It would seem that some people are getting stuck on the word exploit as a software term rather than the transitive verb usage. I only brought up rewards and exploits because you started going on about it with your buddy Deezy. Most of the people that don't want to fight don't leave battles in FW, they just do what most people do in pubs (stay in redline or ignore objectives). If there is any hope for team play in this game then persistent team play is needed (over 2 years ago).
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 552	Posted - 2015.07.03 01:19:00 - [19] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Kain Spero wrote: PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: One word; patience. I think over two years waiting for implementation is patience enough. True, sometimes no one understands the point till ya snap. I think once the new PC changes are finished and more team based balance is achieved, THEN you can talk team deploy. Also, so you're or someone else is losing/lost patience is a reason to take it out on others? Even you got it you'd still have no choice but to wait cause it won't happen overnight. We have way better Devs now then then, so i think it'll work out. PC can't evolve without persistent team play. There's a reason why closed beta vets with corp battle experience set the foundation for the successful PC corps.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 552	Posted - 2015.07.03 01:23:00 - [20] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Imp Smash wrote: But outside of THAT -- I think FW and up should be a full on free for all. Hadn't considered no-squad as an alternative option to 8-man vs 16-man debate; could make for some interesting FW fights. Can't imagine the Team Deploy crowd getting behind this though. If it was an option sure, but I'll never understand why soloist want to COD up Dust when they could just go play one of the many solo FPS games. At least I'll say, why are they vocal about not being overly successful solo in a team based game.

thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 559	Posted - 2015.07.03 13:23:00 - [21] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: thor424 wrote: I only brought up rewards and exploits because you started going on about it with your buddy Deezy. Most of the people that don't want to fight don't leave battles in FW, they just do what most people do in pubs (stay in redline or ignore objectives). If there is any hope for team play in this game then persistent team play is needed (over 2 years ago). I made no mention of rewards, so you need to check your statements. The people who don't want an actual fight are the people in the 16 man team form up. The people who don't want a fight are the same people who q sync pubs all night calling people scrubs when they back out. There are plenty of people in Dust who consider themselves good players, but have literally spent years avoiding any sort of challenging contest. Giving them team deploy allows them to stomp on uncoordinated groups while still maintaining their own illusions of competence. You know them, the guys who are deadweights in a PC, but the most vocal eager scrubs in pubs. The hope for team play isn't on having team deploy in pub matches(which FW essentially is), but rather a compelling competitive end game mode for people to either aspire to play or dominate. Its funny that you mention persistant teamplay as a necessity, which clearly shows you weren't in PC when it started. Battles every hour, 24/7. The burnout from high end competitive play 24/7 destroyed corps and made people throw up their hands at the horrible performance of the game when it mattered. Maybe if you had experienced what a full time war against Nyain San or Imperfects meant you wouldn't be clamoring for it so hard. The luxury of not being at the peak of the game when the war was real I guess. There are a lot of points to hit on there. I am going to ignore most of it. I've been in PC from the very first day. I was in all of the big wars. I'm an abvious, alt. There has never been a persistent way to team deploy. Scheduling a match 24-48 hours away isn't persistence. I've said it before, I think it's too late to revive team play in Dust, I don't think anything can change the pacifist behavior of the majority of our playerbase. But I think for any hope of a future, they have to try and make their best asset shine.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 559	Posted - 2015.07.03 13:26:00 - [22] - Quote The KTM DuKe wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Actually our syncs are fairly open. KTM, explain me this though. If 4 our of 5 instant deployment game modes are geared towards solo and small group play why does the 5th need to be as well? Also, if I can make a sync fairly easily now and it'll be even easier with 8 man squads how do you see me wanted to INCREASE the number of syncs that I face as me trying to stomp teams of randoms? It s useless talk to you Show up to the channel and you get in if there's room. I've never, ever heard a player asked to leave to make room for someone.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 559	Posted - 2015.07.03 13:29:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: We need to quit acting as though every game mode needs to have some kind of safety mechanism. What if that safety mechanism's sole purpose is to prevent players from sitting in queue indefinitely? Would it be unacceptable to protect users from this type of poor UX? With this playerbase it's gonna happen either way Pretty much. Disagreed. This isn't a "yes or no" wait time situation. There are degrees of wait times. At risk of over-simplification: (A) If I threw 100 nickels and dimes and Heim and asked him to return sets of 25 cents, he'd be able to do so in short order. His "assembly queue" would move at a fast, reliable rate and his rate of output wouldn't be largely affected by adding new 5 cent and 10 cent coins to his pile. (B) But if I threw 100 nickels and dimes and 10 pennies at Heim and asked him to return sets of 32 cents, he'd quickly realize that he's short denomination X or Y. After the first few sets were completed, the remaining partially completed sets would have to wait on hold for their missing denominations to be added to the pile. The "assembly queue" would not move at a fast or reliable rate. As it relates to PCU: Scenario (A) is occasionally reliant upon coin availability; a minority of sets may wait "on hold" in queue. Scenario (B) is constantly and heavily reliant coin availability; the majority of sets will wait "on hold" in queue. Are you trying to point out how poor the initial spawning of FW is? That new players who jump on at 2 ET US and queue for 10 minutes until scottied just abandon FW altogether?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 560	Posted - 2015.07.03 14:34:00 - [24] - Quote If loyalty store items were tradable couldn't the lazy solo players just buy the items they want? Then they can proceed to derp up pub matches instead of derping up game modes where people actually play the objectives.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 576	Posted - 2015.07.03 17:45:00 - [25] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Bollocks, people have the notion that FW is some predetermined 16 player sync, whereas really it's for the players who can't commit to being on every day (PC) but still want competitive team games In case you haven't noticed, the proponents of this want to turn it into 16 man syncs all day. Because rather than duke it out in PC, they want to stay together as a team and play against uncoordinated groups. They are not looking for competitive play, they are looking to create unbalanced matches that they can essentially farm for easy wins, CP, and LP. Their goal is fundamentally uncompetitive. Look at how many blue donut folks are posting as this is the salvation for the game. Do you trust these same people who refused to fight each other for glory to suddenly start being legitimate competition seekers? Who said anything about not doing PC? Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 580	Posted - 2015.07.03 18:00:00 - [26] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt. Doesn't the fact that his corp is basically already doing what he is talking about actually validate what he is saying? He has no idea. He doesn't play Dust. He just saw another cuunt posting in this thread (you) and his vag started spewing nonsense on the forums. His vag actually types. Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 580	Posted - 2015.07.03 18:15:00 - [27] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: Your own corp does Q syncs and pulled out of PC a long time ago, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You should look into a local Low T center, it might help you stop being a cuunt. Doesn't the fact that his corp is basically already doing what he is talking about actually validate what he is saying? He has no idea. He doesn't play Dust. He just saw another cuunt posting in this thread (you) and his vag started spewing nonsense on the forums. His vag actually types. Oh good so running around calling everyone "cuunts" when you have done nothing but make yourself look like an idiot is how you make yourself feel good. That's good for you man, I am glad you found a vent for your prepubescent frustrations. It's clear you idiots are going to get your way so now I'm **** posting. Congrats Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 580	Posted - 2015.07.03 18:16:00 - [28] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this. No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself. It would be cool if you'd biomass Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 581	Posted - 2015.07.03 18:24:00 - [29] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Attorney General - If it goes through and ends poorly, I hope you'll be around for lots and lots of "told you so". Please don't biomass/quit over this. No its not worth biomassing over but if they do make the change it will be a sure sign that CCP cares more about the whining of the farmers who have already taken a dump on the game than the game itself. It would be cool if you'd biomass More prepubescent spewing. Keep showing off the thought processes of those who support this so everyone can be clear that you can not think past anything but your self and maybe the few people you want to exploit the game with. You are an idiot. I love this game and pushed for mechanics to open up the higher levels of Dust to the population WHILE a director of the most active corp in the history of Dust. These changes would have given Molon, Dark Legion, KEQ, Pheonix Fed, and all the others sooo much content. That has been what's missing. It's the reason why these corps are all dead. There's no reason to be in a corp. They couldn't compete with the small elite groups. Persistent team play was the only way for those types of corps to hone the skill necessary to have any hope of overtaking the small elite corps in PC. I'm sorry you aren't smart enough to see that. Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 581	Posted - 2015.07.03 18:37:00 - [30] - Quote Deezy, if I'd known I'd need to read all the stupid **** you would post in this thread I would have never posted in it. I think my brain actually lost 15% of its efficacy reading your stupidity. Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?

thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 581	Posted - 2015.07.03 19:20:00 - [31] - Quote ^ it's amazing a brain can be that stupid, yet function a computer and communicate with others Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 581	Posted - 2015.07.03 19:29:00 - [32] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sure, but CCP can do that anyway and already have, regardless of the squad sizes. They keep logs of each match, henceforth why they ask us to help narrow down which match we experience issues in rather than provide, say, a video recording of the entire match itself. And, let us assume that these 32 guys (because that is what you'd have to have if you wanted to reduce the likeliness of interference and being caught by a third party) -did- run seven straight hours in some crazy attempt to literally spend an entire work day capping out by boosting. Assuming the boredom didn't kill them, they'd have to fight the battlefinder -the entire seven hour duration- to make sure that they consistently got in the same matches and not a single one of them could leave. Otherwise, they'd have other players that you can be -damn certain- would be interfering with their activities and likely posting about it here on the forums. I dunno about you, but I can barely stomach waiting an hour for a PC match to start up let alone spending seven hours hacking/re-hacking an installation. The very concept wears on my patience and I doubt anyone else has the patience for it. But as said, to what end? So they can get an APEX suit that they could have just as easily bought with ISK? So that they could hit their SP cap -with literally no competition at all-? For what, though? So that they could continue boosting with it? With 16 man deploy they would not be fighting anything which is why I am fight for keeping it to 8 + 8. Boredom is not really a defense because we have watched the same activity take place on empty PC districts and obviously they do not have to do the full amount in one shot. Is it okay for 32 people to grab 3 - 4 million SP totally for free in just a couple of hours? The new PC system is also highly based on corp activity which means this farming behavior could be used to complete all of the non AUR missions for all 32 of their members giving them a huge amount of command points which means that they could feasibly use an alt each time to farm up new command points to launch an unlimited number of free raids every day. Making it so incredibly easy to manipulate the hell out of FW will screw up the rest of the game just like how PC did before. I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't. My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system. No, let's continue to hold the game back and make it impossible for groups to become proficient in team play so we can guarantee that all the dev work for PC 2.0 is wasted. Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 581	Posted - 2015.07.03 19:30:00 - [33] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: ^ it's amazing a brain can be that stupid, yet function a computer and communicate with others Tell me one place where I am wrong in the fact that it unlocks massive exploits that even break the PC system which so much work has been put into building. Honestly, I can't refute things that are so stupid that I can't see where they are coming from. It's like reasoning with a really drunk, crazy homeless person. Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 581	Posted - 2015.07.03 19:35:00 - [34] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not convinced that this will be as big of a problem as you think it is, man. I apologize that I can't see it from your standpoint but I simply can't. My proposal is this: We roll out Team Deploy, since the greater community seem to be in favor of it, and if it becomes a problem we do exactly what we did with PC and cut it from the game until we can find a better system. We have seen how far that even certain people fighting their ass off to get team deploy will go to exploit the game. Quote: 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' - George Santayana Yet we are sitting here talking about shoving through a system which just like the previous version of PC allows people to make tons of risk free money and even get unique items out of it depending on what actually ends up in the DK store. People made tons of ISK in PC because they were unchecked idiot. You could dominate PC with a few teams with the mechanics. Nobody had the ISK to attempt to break through every 24 hours, one redline at a time. Lack of persistent team play guaranteed than nobody could contend with them. And it created the pacifist, ***** mentality that plagues Dust. Is Attorney General the biggest cuunt in Dust?
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 611	Posted - 2015.07.05 04:21:00 - [35] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: Forget about him hes probs jealous that he missed out of the free ISK and now hes seeking for revenge with stupid arguments that have no substance to them. No substance when I have very clearly shown out to not only farm a crazy amount of SP but also how to give yourself a very clear advantage in PC is quite funny. I am also very far from needing ISK and have not needed ISK since about 2 weeks after I started this game. What advantage? Your are conflicting yourself more and more, first the complain about the huge ISK generation in PC 1.0 which made alot of people rich and now you complain that this could happend aswell in FW. If you havent noticed the rich players from PC 1.0 dont need LP to play PC. So stop coming up with this nonesense. FW will be a huge tool for corps to generate command points which is what makes all of PC 2.0 work. FIFY
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 611	Posted - 2015.07.05 04:25:00 - [36] - Quote Why would playing together as a team, generating CP for a shot at PC be a bad thing? These are the necessary ingredients to make it all work. If farming means to play the game and try to win then call me a farmer and sign me up. People "farm" pubs every day all day to the detriment of all the random people in the match with them. Why is Deezy not outraged about this? There is NOTHING more damaging to the game than all the solo derp town, passive BS that goes on in pubs.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 623	Posted - 2015.07.05 14:41:00 - [37] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: thor424 wrote: There is NOTHING more damaging to the game than all the solo derp town, passive BS that goes on in pubs. A merc might be inclined to think that low battle quality, choppy performance, low player headcounts, NPE and attrition are things we should work on to keep Dust alive. But that merc would be wrong. Soloists do more damage to Dust than anything else in the game. First, we should chase off all the soloists. / sarcasm The best NPE for Dust was pushing players into squads (auto squading). The randomness of 20-30 players individually running around doing who knows what makes for a frustrating experience far more often than not. It's a shame people are too stubborn to admit that, or too stupid to realize it.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 623	Posted - 2015.07.05 14:44:00 - [38] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: thor424 wrote: Why would playing together as a team, generating CP for a shot at PC be a bad thing? These are the necessary ingredients to make it all work. If farming means to play the game and try to win then call me a farmer and sign me up. People "farm" pubs every day all day to the detriment of all the random people in the match with them. Why is Deezy not outraged about this? There is NOTHING more damaging to the game than all the solo derp town, passive BS that goes on in pubs. FW is not required to earn CP. CP are beeing handed out for completing missions which are limited to 10 every day per char. So thats not going to be a issue. My point is that it should be encouraged for corps to run together and the CP takes care of itself. To raise the bar in Dust it will take people learning how to squad and play within a team. PC is the bar, yet there's no ramp to get there.
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 625	Posted - 2015.07.05 15:16:00 - [39] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: thor424 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: thor424 wrote: There is NOTHING more damaging to the game than all the solo derp town, passive BS that goes on in pubs. A merc might be inclined to think that low battle quality, choppy performance, low player headcounts, NPE and attrition are things we should work on to keep Dust alive. But that merc would be wrong. Soloists do more damage to Dust than anything else in the game. First, we should chase off all the soloists. / sarcasm The best NPE for Dust was pushing players into squads (auto squading). The randomness of 20-30 players individually running around doing who knows what makes for a frustrating experience far more often than not. It's a shame people are too stubborn to admit that, or too stupid to realize it. Turning a handful of indicators from blue to green solves all kinds of newberry problems. Defies all practical sense, but it works! Tired of getting officer stomped? Are you ready to fight back? Use squadfinder, today! / s There you go, you are catching on!
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 635	Posted - 2015.07.05 23:17:00 - [40] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: If we get 16 man deploy any randoms can just search solo and AFK with whatever group they get dropped into. Do we really want to teach randoms that they can just roll the dice for a match to AFK a free win a portion of the ime because they got dropped in with a 14 man squad who was just short? I thought AFKing was bad enough in FW. What game are you playing? This happens all the time already.

thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 637	Posted - 2015.07.06 01:20:00 - [41] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: thor424 wrote: deezy dabest wrote: If we get 16 man deploy any randoms can just search solo and AFK with whatever group they get dropped into. Do we really want to teach randoms that they can just roll the dice for a match to AFK a free win a portion of the ime because they got dropped in with a 14 man squad who was just short? I thought AFKing was bad enough in FW. What game are you playing? This happens all the time already. You obviously missed the portion which I underlined for you. Since there is already a problem does that mean we should make it worse? I don't think team deploy would make it worse.

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