Your talking about taking 2 things away BIG DIFFERENCE! As I said I wouldn't mind if you made logis sidearm only wouldn't change my play style at all. But trying to Nerf logis because you aren't one or you don't see their worth makes no sense to me. Why do you hate logis so much? So if a logi had a sidearm and a grenade not even a locust he could do everything!?!?! Ridiculous

Edit get some sleep, take a breath, or take a walk and think about what you are saying your a CPM FFS!

Why not? Tanks can't do everything, LAVs cant do inverything, Sentinels can't do everything, why should logistics be able to do everything?

Most all dedicated logis would be ok with sidearm only.

No. Hell no. Most all dedicated Logis dont want the amarr to lose a light weapon and a sidearm, let alone making all of the logis sidearm only. Please, just stop.

These two are really, really bad ideas.

Whats this about logis losing grenades? Whats an actual valid reason? Are logis getting a disporpotionate number of grenade kills? Are they fluxing too much equipment?


Grenades are just as defensive as they are offensive. Clearing remotes, enemy logi equipment spam, back up AV nades, or sometime just to chuck it into a room before a heavy clears it out.



Tossing a grenade means doing everything? Because logis can't

- cloak and be as mobile as a scout (mobility ewar)
- fight like an Assault (more hp/ weapon bonus / sidearm)
- tank hp like a heavy
- AV as well as anyother suit, especially commandos

But tossing a grenade makes em jack of all trades. Sigh....

Side arm only logis???!!!



No. Hell no. Most all dedicated Logis dont want the amarr to lose a light weapon and a sidearm, let alone making all of the logis sidearm only. Please, just stop.


These two are really, really bad ideas.

Just out of curiosity,
- what weapon do you equip on your Logi (usually)?
- What instances/scenarios in a match is it vital you have just that weapon?
- And last, in those instances, could you have used a sidearm just as effectively?

Personally I like to use a Mass Driver with my Minmatar Logistics.

I typically use it as a bombardment tool to keep enemies behind cover from a distance while my heavy/assaults/commandos push up across the open to pin and finish said enemies off. Alternatively it pushes enemies OUT of cover, into the higher direct DPS fire of my allies.

Could I do this with a sidearm? Well the only option would be a flaylock I suppose, and that lacks the range or splash damage to really work in the fashion I use my Mass Driver.


Similarly, I will often use a Laser Rifle on my Amarr Logi to keep enemies behind cover and for the psychological effect that I can typically control their movements and 'push' them towards and unfavorable position where the rest of my team can more readily kill them. There are really no sidearms that replicate the effect of the Laser Rifle, so I can't really go that route either.

It's at times like this when I read through threads such as this one that I find myself with my face in my palm, shaking my head.

There are a few good ideas being talked about but I see so many ideas that make me think, "Have some of you ever even been a logi before!?"
I don't mean just chubby chasing or camping at Alpha on Impact Ridge with a heavy and a rep tool. There is a lot more to being a good logi than that.

I await with anticipation the outcome of this discussion.

Just out of curiosity,
- what weapon do you equip on your Logi (usually)?
- What instances/scenarios in a match is it vital you have just that weapon?
- And last, in those instances, could you have used a sidearm just as effectively?

If I may weigh in here sir,

Grenades are traditionally a frontline attack mode issued to personnel involved in breaching, patrolling and active defense.

They are not normally issued among combat engineers, medics and logistics crews under most circumstances.

Battle rifles and sidearms are more common for personal defense when tasked to frontline units.

To be honest grenades are more useful to assaults and scouts than to logis and sentinels. Machinegun teams tend to be more focused on feeding the bullet devourer. But they still get issued them.

what if proto is "only" 7 high/lows

Making Logis Sidearm only but retaining the grenade slot I think is the step in the right direction. We have excellent Sidearms now, and when I need to switch to a weapon in my Logi suite I'm usually already in CQC.

No, it is not a step in the right direction, sidearms are hilariously bad compared to any primary weapon. Try defending yourself from a shotgun scout with only a magsec. As I've highlighted before, a magsec does ~322 dps at 40m whereas an ARR (which has relatively comparable fitting) does 400ish dps at twice the range.

Making logi's sidearm only is a crippling nerf.

Fair points.
Thanks

Edit: To clarify a bit, the reason I asked is because there are a lot of different opinions floating around what makes "a true Logi", based solely on their own playstyle. Personally I tend to stay close to my squad at all times to assist in revives, ammo and rep. I don't use area of effect weapons like the mass driver, which would be suicidal in FW.

When I need to switch to a weapon to assist in the killing it's usually because we are overwhelmed and no amount of resurrection, ammo or rep will make a difference. This is usually CQC, and I tend to soften enemies for my team to take out, or finishing off stragglers. I could as easily do this with a sidearm, so for me it would make no difference.

Now, does this make me a lesser Logi?
(Not that you called me that.. )

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

As in only logos can equip them, or that logos can't equip rifles? Personally I feel like that's removing sandbox play, but its definitely a workable compromise with some tweaking.

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

Hmm, I mean, sure... so, Cal logi would have an extra module slot, standard equipment progression, and only a sidearm...? That would certainly differentiate it. Best defense, worst offense, same equipment potential. This might be a balance nightmare, but still, intriguing.

Though I am not sure why it couldn't just have the standard logi slots numbers (so, same as gal and min)... It would be simpler, but perhaps also more boring ;)

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

I'm down can you do it?

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

All of those weapons have no place for a support logi, with the exception of the Mass driver. All of these weapons have major weaknesss that must be compensated for with a secondary weapon, be it sidearms for assaults and scouts or secondary light weapons for the commandos.

Unfeasable:
Sniper Rifle: Well, sniping is the opposite of supporting your team with rep, hives, and uplinks.

Swarms: Except the amarr logi, you are incapable of engaging infantry.

PLC: well I have yet to see any PLC support logi fits. PLC works best with a sidearm as back up. Otherwise, the only suit to run PLC only is the Galmando, which they dual wield Again, its AV work, with some use as antiinfantry. You have to be agressive with it, and ambush players.


Partially feasable:

Shotgun: They work with speed fits and stealth fits so you are not killed moving from place to another. Either your sprinting around trying to get kills not being a logi, or your are just hoping that the enemy comes within 10m to shoot you. Really a last resort.


- Laser rifle, polar opposite of the shotgun, You have to be removed from the fight, and you dont have the Amarr bonus to kill an enemy before it overheats. Anybody that gets midrange you'll be in reall trouble.


All of these weapons are the domain of the other suits. Commandos for sniping, swarms and PLC. Amarr Assaults for Laser rifle, Scouts for the shotgun. These are all niche weapons, for a very specific situations.

Its offering logis to be the best at things they dont need. Logis don't need niche weapons, logis need reliable ones, to help push a point with the assaults and heavies. And the rifles work just fine.



Theres nothing stopping you right now from logging on and crippling your own logi fit. You want to rep heavies carrying sniper rifle, shoot back at RRs with a shotgun, or run a single ion pistol on your gal logi, because you want a sidearm only logi great. Have at it. Its a sandbox. Play as you like.

But keep your fitting choices to yourself, and stop trying to push it as a requirement on others.

As in only logos can equip them, or that logos can't equip rifles? Personally I feel like that's removing sandbox play, but its definitely a workable compromise with some tweaking.

Eh, I don't like it. Anything that takes away player freedom needs should be avoided. What would doing this even accomplish?