Nade lost on logis and giving them all side arms instead would make them distinctively disadvantaged vs an assault.

Why not? Tanks can't do everything, LAVs cant do inverything, Sentinels can't do everything, why should logistics be able to do everything?

Whats this about logis losing grenades? Whats an actual valid reason? Are logis getting a disporpotionate number of grenade kills? Are they fluxing too much equipment?


Grenades are just as defensive as they are offensive. Clearing remotes, enemy logi equipment spam, back up AV nades, or sometime just to chuck it into a room before a heavy clears it out.



Tossing a grenade means doing everything? Because logis can't

- cloak and be as mobile as a scout (mobility ewar)
- fight like an Assault (more hp/ weapon bonus / sidearm)
- tank hp like a heavy
- AV as well as anyother suit, especially commandos

But tossing a grenade makes em jack of all trades. Sigh....

Side arm only logis???!!!



No. Hell no. Most all dedicated Logis dont want the amarr to lose a light weapon and a sidearm, let alone making all of the logis sidearm only. Please, just stop.


These two are really, really bad ideas.

It's at times like this when I read through threads such as this one that I find myself with my face in my palm, shaking my head.

There are a few good ideas being talked about but I see so many ideas that make me think, "Have some of you ever even been a logi before!?"
I don't mean just chubby chasing or camping at Alpha on Impact Ridge with a heavy and a rep tool. There is a lot more to being a good logi than that.

I await with anticipation the outcome of this discussion.

No, it is not a step in the right direction, sidearms are hilariously bad compared to any primary weapon. Try defending yourself from a shotgun scout with only a magsec. As I've highlighted before, a magsec does ~322 dps at 40m whereas an ARR (which has relatively comparable fitting) does 400ish dps at twice the range.

Making logi's sidearm only is a crippling nerf.

Fair points.
Thanks

Edit: To clarify a bit, the reason I asked is because there are a lot of different opinions floating around what makes "a true Logi", based solely on their own playstyle. Personally I tend to stay close to my squad at all times to assist in revives, ammo and rep. I don't use area of effect weapons like the mass driver, which would be suicidal in FW.

When I need to switch to a weapon to assist in the killing it's usually because we are overwhelmed and no amount of resurrection, ammo or rep will make a difference. This is usually CQC, and I tend to soften enemies for my team to take out, or finishing off stragglers. I could as easily do this with a sidearm, so for me it would make no difference.

Now, does this make me a lesser Logi?
(Not that you called me that.. )

I kind of wish we had a support weapon slot, for MD's, LR, PLC, Shotgun, Sniper and Swarm, to distinguish from "Rifles". Then Logis could be good at them, and bad at the others.

All of those weapons have no place for a support logi, with the exception of the Mass driver. All of these weapons have major weaknesss that must be compensated for with a secondary weapon, be it sidearms for assaults and scouts or secondary light weapons for the commandos.

Unfeasable:
Sniper Rifle: Well, sniping is the opposite of supporting your team with rep, hives, and uplinks.

Swarms: Except the amarr logi, you are incapable of engaging infantry.

PLC: well I have yet to see any PLC support logi fits. PLC works best with a sidearm as back up. Otherwise, the only suit to run PLC only is the Galmando, which they dual wield Again, its AV work, with some use as antiinfantry. You have to be agressive with it, and ambush players.


Partially feasable:

Shotgun: They work with speed fits and stealth fits so you are not killed moving from place to another. Either your sprinting around trying to get kills not being a logi, or your are just hoping that the enemy comes within 10m to shoot you. Really a last resort.


- Laser rifle, polar opposite of the shotgun, You have to be removed from the fight, and you dont have the Amarr bonus to kill an enemy before it overheats. Anybody that gets midrange you'll be in reall trouble.


All of these weapons are the domain of the other suits. Commandos for sniping, swarms and PLC. Amarr Assaults for Laser rifle, Scouts for the shotgun. These are all niche weapons, for a very specific situations.

Its offering logis to be the best at things they dont need. Logis don't need niche weapons, logis need reliable ones, to help push a point with the assaults and heavies. And the rifles work just fine.



Theres nothing stopping you right now from logging on and crippling your own logi fit. You want to rep heavies carrying sniper rifle, shoot back at RRs with a shotgun, or run a single ion pistol on your gal logi, because you want a sidearm only logi great. Have at it. Its a sandbox. Play as you like.

But keep your fitting choices to yourself, and stop trying to push it as a requirement on others.

Okay hardcore dudebrah, you use an exile in PC. Here's a cookie. So you used tre cal logi when it was the slayer fit of choice and stuck with it. Calm your ****.

Open beta crap doesnt fly with me, open beta Minmatar logi myself, 54 million SP later its the first and last suit I have at proto.

I'm talking since it was the least popular medium suit in all of dust, when it had the hacking bonus. So no, I don't know nor care about 'the pain' of getting my logi nerfed because it was a slayer fit of choice.

Only after all the equipment got nerfed (shall we say rebalanced), and I had to diversify my suits to get the most out of what worked well on just one, my minmatar.

Logis still have the light weapon like always and have the worst K/S ratio of all the suits to boot. So your slayer logis fears are pulled straight out of 2013, because it hasn't been like that for a long time. But dont take my word for it, here ya go, have Rattatis data insight, and gain some insight.

EDIT: We are starting to derail this thread into 'who's a true logi', we can continue this argument in GD, but lets just leave this thread for feedback on the slots.

Just going to echo what most seem to be on board with:

All Logis

4 Equipment slots
1 Light Weapon slot
0 Sidearm slot
1 Grenade slot


Edit: The extra low and missing equipment slot on the Caldari Logistics coupled with the missing low and missing equipment slot on the Amarr Logistics and the Sidearm on the Amarr Logistics are design (flaws) relics from a different era.
They are inconsistent with not only the Logistics role but also inconsistent with the layout for dropsuit roles in general.

The gap between the Logistics Suits and the Assault Suits can be bridged (not only for 1 race but for all of them) by giving the Medium Frames a 2nd Equipment Slot.

I can live with this.
+1

Weapon range is an extremely important factor. A 25% reduction in weapons range on a logi would stop the slayer logi FoTM.

With buffed speed, eHP, fittings, and a sidearm I'll be a part of the hoards of slayer logis. I asked myself what I would need to keep me in a proper Slayer Assault, with it's paltry reload bonus, and the answer is a disincentive to use light weapons on a logi.

I would also favor the sidearm only option if it came with some sort of buff...like dual sidearms and a sidearm range bonus. A Scrambler Pistol and a Bolt Pistol combo would be fun. I don't do that on the Assault any more because of the range handicap vs Light Weapons.

Can we just make the repair tool it's own weapon type with it's own slot (and a shield type of course) and give it EVE level reps that can out pace multiple sources of incoming PDS?
It'd swap a LW slot for that any day.

To me the tactical value of real sustainable rep levels and no weapon is vastly superior to the status of having a mediocre weapon selection (but still weapons) and current reps.

The issue with the weapons listed above being combined with support play is that they don't currently synergize.
MD and LR lend themselves to setting up shop somewhere and providing area denial/zone of control. That action in and of itself is support in many lights no question, but if you're camped in a single (usually high) area you can't support your squad unless you are either A) defending a vital uplink spot, or B) they are camped right along side you.

Shotgun is a viable weapon, and I enjoy running it, but I run it on my scout fit (or maybe my Min Assault if the mood strikes me) because most of the time it requires that you have more speed that the opposing forces so you can hit and run/close the distance. Get caught at rifle range with a shotgun and you're dead (even in a tanked Sent) which is fine, that's the shotgun working as intended but it makes it not very viable unless the suit in question has above average move and sprint speeds.
Speed aside it becomes more iffy for a support role because it's range and type of engagement is front line not over the shoulder or 'second rank' thus requiring a choice between positioning for possible weapon use or optimal support play.

Sniper has the same problems as the MD and LR only magnified due to it's range profile and proper use case.

Swarms on a suit with no sidearm is simply asking to die in most cases though having a fit like that in your back pocket only for dedicated AV work is useful, you need to have someone guard you or accept that you will burn the fit.

PLC is likely the most viable of all of them, for those who have the skill set to use it, because it can mimic some of the OHK of the Shotgun and the AV of the swarms, plus has enough range to give a bit of area denial, but it is far from an easy weapon to use leaving most players likely better off running an SMG or Blot Pistol for general utility.

All of that being said I'm not opposed to the Assault class being more effective with rifles, that actually makes a lot of sense to me, what if the dps of the rifles themselves was pulled back somewhat and the assaults gained an added damage bonus to their racial weapons?