DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Logistics Slot Progression

ZDub 303 wrote:

Varoth Drac wrote:

I don't see any bickering or tears. The only tears you are going to get are from Amarr logi users if you remove their sidearm.

Logis have one of the, if not the, most defined role in the game. Equipment use. And how exactly are the logi's equipment bonuses bad for their use of equipment?

I would suggest you listen to the last Biomassed podcast on this topic. The racial bonuses for equipment really pidgeonhole each logi suit into a few specific and niche roles. Its not as clear cut as you say.

Min Logi is a Medic with a rep tool, amarr logi drops uplinks, gallente logi is a scanner, and cal logi just kind of sucks but is supposed to drop boosted nanohives. Those roles, and how they interact and are useful in the battlefield are very different.

You wouldn't use a min log with 4 active scanners, that would be senseless. You would use a gallente logi with 4 active scanners though, and you would be useful. Would you use a min logi with 4 rep tools? I would certainly hope not...

You could use a cal logi with 4 boosted nanohives but you would probably be largely irrelevant. In fact, if you're not a min logi with a boosted rep tool or an amarr logi with some decent combat capability you are just running a truly subpar fit. Its fine to run subpar fits in pubs 'for the lulz' but when it comes to balancing it would help if each class was actually useful and served a real purpose.

If 'equipment' is to the truly be the role of a logi suit then they need global bonuses to all relevant equipment (explosives likely excluded) so that each logi suit can actually perform the 'equipment' role.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:06:00 - [1] - Quote Well as I've stated before I've always felt the Logistics slot progression should match the Assault progression, the proto suits are nearly there as it is. Since we're moving to a flatlined slot layout, this seems to be the obvious course of action. Amarr 3 High 5 Low 3 Equipment 1 Sidearm (Fair trade for equipment loss) Caldari 5 High 3 Low (Add additional CPU to compensate for loss of low slot) 4 Equipment OR 3 Equipment + Sidearm Gallente 3 High 5 Low 4 Equipment Minmatar 4 High 4 Low 4 Equipment "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.28 05:23:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: what if proto is "only" 7 high/lows This would be a nerf to most Logis would it not? Could you explain your reasoning behind this? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.28 06:01:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what if proto is "only" 7 high/lows This would be a nerf to most Logis would it not? Could you explain your reasoning behind this? Giving Assault an advantage, since total slots on logi are 2 more at proto. Well as a personal opinion, i think the differentiation between the roles, or that advantage, should be tied to secondary attributes (namely bonuses and things like a Scout's Cloak or a Commando's two weapons) rather than the defensive slots themselves. I think perhaps what is truly lacking here is "What can the Assault do that a Logistics suit will never be able to do?" and that should really be the primary focus here when trying to differentiate the two in ways the other cannot emulate. I mean if you think about it, the Assault is really the only specialty suit that doesn't have it's own gimick. Sentinels = Heavy Weapon, Commando = 2 Light Weapons, Scouts = Cloaks, Logis = Equipment. If we want to make the Assaults shine, they need to have something special that no other suit can fit/replicate. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:34:00 - [4] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: No. Hell no. Most all dedicated Logis dont want the amarr to lose a light weapon and a sidearm, let alone making all of the logis sidearm only. Please, just stop. These two are really, really bad ideas. Just out of curiosity, - what weapon do you equip on your Logi (usually)? - What instances/scenarios in a match is it vital you have just that weapon? - And last, in those instances, could you have used a sidearm just as effectively? Personally I like to use a Mass Driver with my Minmatar Logistics. I typically use it as a bombardment tool to keep enemies behind cover from a distance while my heavy/assaults/commandos push up across the open to pin and finish said enemies off. Could I do this with a sidearm? Well the only option would be a flaylock I suppose, and that lacks the range or splash damage to really work in the fashion I use my Mass Driver. Similarly, I will often use a Laser Rifle on my Amarr Logi to keep enemies behind cover and for the psychological effect that I can typically control their movements and 'push' them towards and unfavorable position where the rest of my team can more readily kill them. There are really no sidearms that replicate the effect of the Laser Rifle, so I can't really go that route either. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:53:00 - [5] - Quote I think people often get too focused on the whole Light Weapon thing with Logistics. I think its not so much that the Logistics has a Light Weapon, but more so that using an Assault doesn't make your weapons feel like they're on steroids. I mean hypothetically speaking, if Assaults had a +10% Damage bonus like the Commandos do, do you think people would mind Logistics having that Light Weapon? I really don't. The issue is more so that there isn't enough setting the Logistics and Assault apart, I will agree with you there. But I think nerfing the types of weapons Logistics can use, is going to actually do a lot of harm in many cases. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.30 08:09:00 - [6] - Quote Im amazed people are still trying to push for the Sidearm only Logi. Because "It's Support"? Isn't a Scout supposed to be Stealth/EWAR? So by a similar logic would they not be Sidearm Only too? How about we stop trying to strip away essentials from suits and instead focus on giving Assaults something unique that Logis cant replicate? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.31 07:36:00 - [7] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I 100% believe that a full relook of the Logi Role & Racial bonus needs to be re-looked with a focus on clean, elegant changes that will increase the operational value of the Logi. For of all, very solid post. Secondly, bonuses have always been something I've been poking at since....god knows when. What sort of changes do you have in mind in regards to equipment? I know we've discussed moving the Repair Tool to a Role Bonus, but I'm curious to see what else you had in mind. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.06.04 05:46:00 - [8] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: I don't see any bickering or tears. The only tears you are going to get are from Amarr logi users if you remove their sidearm. Logis have one of the, if not the, most defined role in the game. Equipment use. And how exactly are the logi's equipment bonuses bad for their use of equipment? I would suggest you listen to the last Biomassed podcast on this topic. The racial bonuses for equipment really pidgeonhole each logi suit into a few specific and niche roles. Its not as clear cut as you say. Min Logi is a Medic with a rep tool, amarr logi drops uplinks, gallente logi is a scanner, and cal logi just kind of sucks but is supposed to drop boosted nanohives. Those roles, and how they interact and are useful in the battlefield are very different. You wouldn't use a min log with 4 active scanners, that would be senseless. You would use a gallente logi with 4 active scanners though, and you would be useful. Would you use a min logi with 4 rep tools? I would certainly hope not... You could use a cal logi with 4 boosted nanohives but you would probably be largely irrelevant. In fact, if you're not a min logi with a boosted rep tool or an amarr logi with some decent combat capability you are just running a truly subpar fit. Its fine to run subpar fits in pubs 'for the lulz' but when it comes to balancing it would help if each class was actually useful and served a real purpose. If 'equipment' is to the truly be the role of a logi suit then they need global bonuses to all relevant equipment (explosives likely excluded) so that each logi suit can actually perform the 'equipment' role. The only thing I would be careful about universal bonuses is that you do not want Logi bonuses to feel too similar, lest they become overly homoginized. I think opening up additional options aside from the single bonused equipment is good, but I'm very reluctant to give too much of an over arcing bonus set. Does that make sense? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net