With this view you are removing the point of an RPG: investing time into creating/ building a character - this is supposed to be a key difference to other FPS'

What is the point of unlocking stuff in this game if not to use it.

... you are removing the point of an RPG: investing time into creating/ building a character - this is supposed to be a key difference to other FPS'

You will use your proto gear in a PC or FW... or maybe in another "hard mode" game...

Realized one problem: If you have more than 3 friends and want to play a dom.

Bush, I feel, should be kept as a pub match only thing, and should have low squad numbers anyways, just because of the way it works (one team pushes, the other team ends up smart deploying in a circle of full proto shooting them to see who can get the kill until the match ends).

Stomper will just qsync.
Though Team size 16 is evenly dividable by 4.
Scanning results are team wide now anyways

why not just Squad 5 and Team 15 that way you can still keep a good number in a squad and have 3 Squads in a battle

My point isn't that there is a skill point gap in the squads or players team to team, its more about how they come together, play to their team mates. Assist and complement, not what gear they are using and has little to do with the fact that there are 6 man squads, which on a 6-6-4 team (2 six man squads, 4 randoms) the 4 solo players having the ability to fit in where they find their niche on the battle field supporting the 2 squads or just run and gunning. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that the squad size is what it is, the squads allow for greater co-operation among friends and corp mates. It helps more than it hinders. Larger squad sizes would allow half the team to be on a squad, allowing more co-operation not less, reducing the stomping. Ofc this really relies on people squading up to their full potential.

I can see your point about proxy chat but that's a cop out. Inviting people to your squad is a start, teaching them a better way is the next step.

Sorry about not responding, I thought I did.

Just so you know, your point is pretty much my point. The skill point gap wasn't what I was talking about when I said "skill". I literally mean that a pub stomping squad can collectively be disproportionately skilled in the game of Dust compared to any random 6 average players and it only gets worse when you throw in protogear, skill point disparity, and the general advantages of being squadded up.

Sure, it's team work.

Sure, they can squad up.

...but, can they squad up with good players to pub stomp all day? Nope.

It's unbalanced. I think we should simply make STD metalevel battles low risk, low reward battles with a back to basics feel. If people want to get corpmates together, then things should escalate, they should go into riskier higher metalevel battles, FW, or PC.

Also how the hell is mentioning the reality of the many inconvenient communication barriers between us and new players a cop out? Did you really just tell me that players should invite new players to their squad to teach them? Isn't expecting players to help reduce pub stomping by becoming their personal tutors an unrealistic solution?

The CPM is very vocally split on this topic. I think it is one of the simplest way to alleviate pubstomping but I do understand that 4 is limiting when you have an active corp and want to play with your friends. I am looking at whether we can have 4 man squads for public and keep 6 or even 8 for FW.

The CPM is very vocally split on this topic. I think it is one of the simplest way to alleviate pubstomping but I do understand that 4 is limiting when you have an active corp and want to play with your friends. I am looking at whether we can have 4 man squads for public and keep 6 or even 8 for FW.

How about no pre-mades for pubs and no comms to even out the odds for solo, casuals and new players. Then bring back corp battles for friends to que with. Then 8 or more in squads for FW so the team kill meta makes a bit more sense due to better control of who you play with.

PLEASE don't reduce squad size. Rather, increase FW squad size to eight, and keep public squads at six. I for one do not fancy the idea of going back to the old days of small squads, as I believe that playing with your friends is a key component to an engaging multiplayer experience. Why take that away?

That was one (of many) things that turned me off of Destiny. I couldn't play with the people I enjoyed hanging out with, and therefore became frustrated and ultimately quit. My fondest memories of Dust will always be of the times where six, twelve, or even sixteen of my companions all joined together to enjoy the game we love.

This. Please don't take steps backwards. The social aspect of this game is what keeps most vets here. You should be adding to the social elements, not taking away friendly opportunities.

So I have now done some research and have found that a completely random grouping of people in Pubs in a squad does work even without mic support, just using basic squad commands (squad leader knows what he/she is doing with the almighty wheel) and by playing as a team of people.

To do this I made a "Public" squad and waited for it to fill up with people. As time went on we went from Dominating the matches (domination mode) to outright cloning out the other team over the course of 3 hrs. The squad started as 2 members and grew with each match and was successful. We had squad members from more than one random corp and it was amazing how well everyone who just wanted to play as a team could work together both without comms and without any instructions other than normal squad commands.

We did not proto stomp, we rolled over all the solo players on the other teams. Like a wave of terror they ran fleeing to the hills and tried to snipe us but still we came on strong and persevered. It was like a death squad in some horror film, not even the tanks that they threw at us could stand up to our fury.

Keep in mind this was a completely random group of mercs who all joined a squad and deployed with some simple planning before hand. Punch for ammo, stay together to stay alive, follow squad orders for movement. This is not hard to do guys and really funny how well it worked.

Thank you to all who participated in the application of bullets with me this afternoon. It was a true pleasure I will be running these Public Access Squads on a regular basis, if you want to be part of the "education process" join me in schooling the solos, one match at a time.

Can that work with a flanking scout in the squad? I could handle being in a squad like that but as a scout I don't play front line.

Ratta mentioned that the CPM is vocally split on the topic.

And as we have seen in the forums the playerbase is split on the topic.

So I think we should consider the background of the players on each side of this debate. Specifically -- past experience with it.

Of the players who want smaller squad sizes in Ambush, Dom, and Skirm -- how many are older players who were around when we had smaller squad sizes. Of the players who want to keep squad sizes larger -- how many are newer players who have not had smaller squads?

I am willing to bet (and this is just wild speculation on my part -- I recognize this) that most of the people who would be ok with smaller squads (including among the CPM) are players who came after we had larger squads implemented all those years ago. I am also willing to bet the players who are NOT ok with smaller squads are players who were around when squad size was buffed.

I want to be clear -- I am not saying that (if the above guess were true) this would invalidate or validate anyone's opinion on the matter. There are some plenty fine arguments for both side of the debate that bear consideration. I am just curious as to how our collective past experiences affect our opinions on the matter as that may provide a clue as to a system that would the most people happy (or mostly happy.)

As far as I know at this point the CPM is no longer split on the issue of 4 man squads in pubs provided it enables 8 and 16 man squads in FW and PC.

I feel that this is an acceptable, albeit imperfect proposition in the short-term, but the ideal long-term solution needs to include a way for 8 and 16-man units to play ambush and dom matches as well. But yes, no one is standing in the way of this, especially when it has the potential to finally give us an outlet for perpetual team deployments.

It still doesn't make reducing squad size a horrible idea.

Why should squad size be a trade off between game modes? I doubt there a magical formula that says "no unless you have only 4 players per squad in pubs then 8 or 16 cannot compute for any thing else?"

Its crap CPM diplomacy, and bad representation of the Dust 514 playerbase when you want to stop god knows on how many people who have running together for years from doing so, for the sake of P (vomit) C.

You really ought to traverse the various chat channels and tell people they ought to kick every 2 guys out of each squad right now, they'll have more fun if the stop running with their friends.