DUST Search - [Suggestion] Reduce Squad Size

DJINN Jecture wrote:

Indy Strizer wrote:

While I agree that going with 4 man squads can help reduce the pub stomping, I also think that those players who do have enough people to group up to 6 should have some way to play together. Telling players that they should play faction warfare will split up multi-racial corporations. Telling those people to play in PC means they have to risk tons of ISK and commit to a game mode at a certain time they may not want to. I think there should at least be an option for them to play together without hassles, complications, or commitments.

I would suggest adjusting squad sizes for each of the upcoming meta battle tiers. The whole point of those is to prevent stomping while also funneling the big boys into playing with each other. Doing this would only further reinforce the intended effect and might hopefully prevent big groups of players steamrolling new solo players.

So basically... 4 for STD, 6 for ADV, 8 for PRO... and if militia servers become a thing, we have 2 man squads.

Smaller squads means directly less teamwork opportunity. In fact 4 man squads (closed beta days) meant every match was a pub stomp one way or another. Reducing the size of squads will make the problem worse not better. If scotty threw you into a random squad however (if running solo) and filled partially filled squads, then things may sort themselves out to less pub stomping ofc this means that people need to learn how to operate as a team rather than as individuals, often on the fly. Seems like everyone is expecting a lot when it is a pub match.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 294	Posted - 2015.01.15 14:23:00 - [1] - Quote While I agree that going with 4 man squads can help reduce the pub stomping, I also think that those players who do have enough people to group up to 6 should have some way to play together. Telling players that they should play faction warfare will split up multi-racial corporations. Telling those people to play in PC means they have to risk tons of ISK and commit to a game mode at a certain time they may not want to. I think there should at least be an option for them to play together without hassles, complications, or commitments. I would suggest adjusting squad sizes for each of the upcoming meta battle tiers. The whole point of those is to prevent stomping while also funneling the big boys into playing with each other. Doing this would only further reinforce the intended effect and might hopefully prevent bigger groups of players steamrolling new solo players in the STD meta lock out battles. So basically... 4 for STD, 6 for ADV, 8 for PRO... and if militia servers become a thing, we have 2 man squads.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 294	Posted - 2015.01.15 15:02:00 - [2] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Indy Strizer wrote: While I agree that going with 4 man squads can help reduce the pub stomping, I also think that those players who do have enough people to group up to 6 should have some way to play together. Telling players that they should play faction warfare will split up multi-racial corporations. Telling those people to play in PC means they have to risk tons of ISK and commit to a game mode at a certain time they may not want to. I think there should at least be an option for them to play together without hassles, complications, or commitments. I would suggest adjusting squad sizes for each of the upcoming meta battle tiers. The whole point of those is to prevent stomping while also funneling the big boys into playing with each other. Doing this would only further reinforce the intended effect and might hopefully prevent big groups of players steamrolling new solo players. So basically... 4 for STD, 6 for ADV, 8 for PRO... and if militia servers become a thing, we have 2 man squads. Smaller squads means directly less teamwork opportunity. In fact 4 man squads (closed beta days) meant every match was a pub stomp one way or another. Reducing the size of squads will make the problem worse not better. If scotty threw you into a random squad however (if running solo) and filled partially filled squads, then things may sort themselves out to less pub stomping ofc this means that people need to learn how to operate as a team rather than as individuals, often on the fly. Seems like everyone is expecting a lot when it is a pub match. Less opportunity for team work? Uhh, that's sorta the point, not everybody can find a team, let alone one that can be relied upon to gang up on those who don't. From what I remember, stomping became much easier once we had 6 man squads and don't you think there were other factors in why there were stomps in closed beta like the huge difference between militia and prototype gear? Or maybe the match making and lack of Mu? Mu, from what I understand, tries to make the teams as even as possible, but part of the problem is that even if you pit 6 man squads against 6 players of equal skill, the squad wins because they're in a blob, they have passive scans, they have a designated logi repping their heavy, they have nanite injectors to preserve their protogear from becoming an expense, they communicate and flank, they can request nanohives... it goes on and on. Sure, it's teamwork, but it's too much to expect from pub matches just like you said so assigning people into random squads isn't preferabble in my mind.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 295	Posted - 2015.01.15 16:04:00 - [3] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so what you want is less teamwork? More Pubstomps, so long as its not you getting stomped. No, I want team work, but I don't think there should be disproportionate amounts of skill between teams. I think my idea doesn't kill teamwork because even if you have teams with no squads, there would be teamwork, but not high level team play like the squads who stomp in pubs. In fact, I actually want to preserve it and make it more accessible and effective in the PRO tier of meta lock out battles. DJINN Jecture wrote: The thing is though, this is a team game not meant to showcase one player for turning the tide of battle, but rather working together wins. For that we have Wolfenstein 3d, a perfectly horid game that you likely can't find anymore unless you have a super special squirrel stash, or COD where it is a team game but even one rifle master on hardcore can kill the entire enemy team if they are good enough. Hmmm... Mmmhmm... Mmmmhmmm... DJINN Jecture wrote: My stomp suit usually has a lv1 CR, lv1 sever logi suit, proto rep tool and an adv injector. Cost is less than my PC suit and it works just as good to logi bro and kill all at the same time. Average WP earned in the suit is around 1200-1500 wp. The reason it is a stomp suit is the fact that it allows the heavys to maintain their positions and stay up fighting, and helps the team. I think you're honestly just proving my point. You don't need a protogear to stomp, just a squad of players who are disproportionately skilled in comparison to a squad of randoms could ever hope to be, it equates to stacking yourself against them really. There is FPS skill, sure, but there's also skill in supporting the team. Mu seems to have trouble adjusting for this so we end up with a few players trying to carry entire teams of blue berries against skilled squads. DJINN Jecture wrote: Pubstomps honestly have inspired more people to join corps than any other feature in this game. TLDR join a squad or corp and stop being part of the group being stomped and learn to stomp. If people are to be believed, they've also discouraged more players from playing altogether. In the current climate players are just clinging together to not get stomped themselves, those aren't real corporations. I remember back in the old days corporation recruitment was driven by the hype of PC and new content, the intercorp rivalries, by wanting to make an impact on New Eden, wanting to find your own niche within a corporation, and hearing all those stories of the exploits in corp battles or people legitimately trying to teach the game to others. DJINN Jecture wrote: Git gud. Git on a Squad. Support the team to stop the stomping. Don't tell this to me, tell this to the people who don't have squads of good players to learn from... Just remember that we don't have proxy chat, voice chat is turned off by default when they first play, they don't visit the forums, there is no in game tutorial, they're half-commited to this because it's a free game they're just trying out, not to mention players don't just magically get better by joining a squad...
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 296	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:44:00 - [4] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Indy Strizer wrote: ...lots was said... Just remember that we don't have proxy chat, voice chat is turned off by default when they first play, they don't visit the forums, there is no in game tutorial, they're half-commited to this because it's a free game they're just trying out, not to mention players don't just magically get better by joining a squad... My point isn't that there is a skill point gap in the squads or players team to team, its more about how they come together, play to their team mates. Assist and complement, not what gear they are using and has little to do with the fact that there are 6 man squads, which on a 6-6-4 team (2 six man squads, 4 randoms) the 4 solo players having the ability to fit in where they find their niche on the battle field supporting the 2 squads or just run and gunning. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that the squad size is what it is, the squads allow for greater co-operation among friends and corp mates. It helps more than it hinders. Larger squad sizes would allow half the team to be on a squad, allowing more co-operation not less, reducing the stomping. Ofc this really relies on people squading up to their full potential. I can see your point about proxy chat but that's a cop out. Inviting people to your squad is a start, teaching them a better way is the next step. Sorry about not responding, I thought I did. Just so you know, your point is pretty much my point. The skill point gap wasn't what I was talking about when I said "skill". I literally mean that a pub stomping squad can collectively be disproportionately skilled in the game of Dust compared to any random 6 average players and it only gets worse when you throw in protogear, skill point disparity, and the general advantages of being squadded up. Sure, it's team work. Sure, they can squad up. ...but, can they squad up with good players to pub stomp all day? Nope. It's unbalanced. I think we should simply make STD metalevel battles low risk, low reward battles with a back to basics feel. If people want to get corpmates together, then things should escalate, they should go into riskier higher metalevel battles, FW, or PC. Also how the hell is mentioning the reality of the many inconvenient communication barriers between us and new players a cop out? Did you really just tell me that players should invite new players to their squad to teach them? Isn't expecting players to help reduce pub stomping by becoming their personal tutors an unrealistic solution?