DUST Search - [Suggestion] Reduce Squad Size

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

killertojo42 wrote:

Oh and by the way i run a FW squad and we need to do pubs often to keep doing FW, my isk wallet isn't set to unlimited, I'm not screwing friend 5 and 6 on our isk grinds so this would be a deal breaker on the game for me

FW is supposed to be an isk sink. You make money from salvage, and when it is introduced, FW specific missions. I'm not opposed to being able to make isk from FW, I just feel isk shouldn't be given out just to minimise losses.

Save for the fact that the LP market isn't fully up to stock and not gaining ISK rewards to cover losses from gear that you have no other choice but to spend ISK on. Commando suits, certain weapons and modules, etc. I think it's pretty botch that I have to fight for the Caldari just to get some damage mods to fit on my Gallente Assault suit, which is all about high damage CQC action. Consider as well that even LP items still cost ISK and that ISK has to come from somewhere.

The whole system was designed with the intention of a player market coming soon after, which never really happened. It was also to encourage players to play multiple game modes, even though a large portion of the community wants to do what -they- want and not what they're forced to do. Not being given ISK rewards while simultaneously requiring ISK cost on the items you use is a powerful ISK sink, sure, but who are we really trying to make broke?

Why are we trying to make them broke?
Who gets caught in the crossfire as an unintended target of wanting to go broke?
Does it add complexity or depth?
Does it add function or restriction?

These are questions that have to be answered.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 647	Posted - 2015.01.12 13:27:00 - [1] - Quote I would think about increasing player count in matches before even considering touching squads.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 650	Posted - 2015.01.13 17:33:00 - [2] - Quote Reducing squad size for certain game modes would cause problems making squads outside of matches. If I made a 6 man squad and tried to enter a pub match what would happen to the other 2 people in squad?
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 650	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:52:00 - [3] - Quote xAckie wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: It'd help Scotty in more ways than one. * Better matchmaking * Better fights * Better NPE * Fewer stomps * Fewer stompathons * Shorter queue times If drawbacks exist, do they outweigh the benefits? I propose instead of reducing squad sizes, instead they increase the overall match sizes!!! Make the larger battles as they were always meant to be! But then they can't even fix the lag so no hope of that happening... =P Instead they need to have a way for up to 3 squads to group up together in a "platoon" and have the "platoon" deploy as one group to a match. Then no matchmaking is needed other than matching one full platoon vs another full platoon. There problem fixed!!! They can't increase the sizes. That's the problem. It was supposed to be 24 v 24 Yes they can, it would just put increased pressure on the server, we have all seen what happens with equipment spam. That would just make it worse.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 650	Posted - 2015.01.14 17:59:00 - [4] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Oh and by the way i run a FW squad and we need to do pubs often to keep doing FW, my isk wallet isn't set to unlimited, I'm not screwing friend 5 and 6 on our isk grinds so this would be a deal breaker on the game for me FW is supposed to be an isk sink. You make money from salvage, and when it is introduced, FW specific missions. I'm not opposed to being able to make isk from FW, I just feel isk shouldn't be given out just to minimise losses.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 650	Posted - 2015.01.14 18:58:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Oh and by the way i run a FW squad and we need to do pubs often to keep doing FW, my isk wallet isn't set to unlimited, I'm not screwing friend 5 and 6 on our isk grinds so this would be a deal breaker on the game for me FW is supposed to be an isk sink. You make money from salvage, and when it is introduced, FW specific missions. I'm not opposed to being able to make isk from FW, I just feel isk shouldn't be given out just to minimise losses. Save for the fact that the LP market isn't fully up to stock and not gaining ISK rewards to cover losses from gear that you have no other choice but to spend ISK on. Commando suits, certain weapons and modules, etc. I think it's pretty botch that I have to fight for the Caldari just to get some damage mods to fit on my Gallente Assault suit, which is all about high damage CQC action. Consider as well that even LP items still cost ISK and that ISK has to come from somewhere. The whole system was designed with the intention of a player market coming soon after, which never really happened. It was also to encourage players to play multiple game modes, even though a large portion of the community wants to do what -they- want and not what they're forced to do. Not being given ISK rewards while simultaneously requiring ISK cost on the items you use is a powerful ISK sink, sure, but who are we really trying to make broke? Why are we trying to make them broke? Who gets caught in the crossfire as an unintended target of wanting to go broke? Does it add complexity or depth? Does it add function or restriction? These are questions that have to be answered. I agree, but I don't think giving isk away in FW is the answer. A player market would allow for FW to be a way to generate isk, whimodss something I would really like. Isk costs for mods are low on the lp store, one pub match would get you enough isk to buy about 20 proto suits if you have the lp. If FW missions were introduced it would help to alleviate the problem.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 650	Posted - 2015.01.14 23:47:00 - [6] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Oh and by the way i run a FW squad and we need to do pubs often to keep doing FW, my isk wallet isn't set to unlimited, I'm not screwing friend 5 and 6 on our isk grinds so this would be a deal breaker on the game for me FW is supposed to be an isk sink. You make money from salvage, and when it is introduced, FW specific missions. I'm not opposed to being able to make isk from FW, I just feel isk shouldn't be given out just to minimise losses. FW being an ISK sink was a load of crap which is exactly why CCP is looking into adding ISK to FW. Then public matched become completely pointless. The only ways isk should be made in FW is through salvage, missions and selling LP items (selling obviously won't work atm and missions could me introduced).
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 681	Posted - 2015.01.18 03:41:00 - [7] - Quote So, if we get these squad numbers, would they add in the different sizes to the create squad menu or would pubs and FW be auto squad? In all honesty though, I don't think squad size is a problem. Player count in battle is. Would love 24v24 battles.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 681	Posted - 2015.01.18 10:00:00 - [8] - Quote Why not just auto squad everyone that joins a battle and as default have voice comms on? I'm sorry but, lowering squad size will not stop proto stomps. Just have players auto squadded would help, especially if there was a deploy screen showing squads like there was in MAG.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 681	Posted - 2015.01.18 10:22:00 - [9] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I honestly don't see a need to make a new name for something that is fundamentally the same thing. A squad's a squad's a squad's a squad. Just don't allow one with more than 6 people join a pub. Reducing squad size is hardly gonna change things. You know that.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 682	Posted - 2015.01.19 12:02:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Why not just auto squad everyone that joins a battle and as default have voice comms on? I'm sorry but, lowering squad size will not stop proto stomps. Just have players auto squadded would help, especially if there was a deploy screen showing squads like there was in MAG. Get out. I pick my squads, I don't get shoved into squads with some random twit. And God help the universe if I get shoved into a squad with a few of you. I'd spend the first part of the match insuring I would never have to hear your voices again. At what point did I say you can't make a squad of your own? I merely suggested that people that join a battle, who are not in a squad, automatically get put in a squad. If you don't wanna hear people, you can mute them. Squad size is not the problem. The problem is bad matchmaking, people not knowing how to put voice comms on and no one wanting to squad with people they don't know. Put comms on by default, even if its PTT, at least others can hear you. Put people that aren't in squad into a squad automatically, then remove them from squad when the match is over. The main problem though is matchmaking, fix that. Or hurry up with meta level battles. Those two things would reduce these stomps more than anything else.

Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 683	Posted - 2015.01.19 13:58:00 - [11] - Quote Yet they want 8 man squads for FW. Meaning squads can stomp a lot easier in FW. Squads size isn't the problem.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 683	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:23:00 - [12] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Yet they want 8 man squads for FW. Meaning squads can stomp a lot easier in FW. Squads size isn't the problem. The gloves come off in FW and PC. For a more casual experience, queue for a public contract. Public Contract: * Matchmaking gives a best effort at evenly-sided teams * Odds of win:loss are near 50:50; odds of stomp are minimized * Ideal for the soloist or small squad FW / PC: * Matchmaking plays little, if any, role * Odds of win:loss or stomp are determined solely by participants * Supports squads up to 8 and/or team deploy * Interact with and impact the greater Eve universe Or teach people to squad up/auto squad them and have voice active by default. Why relegate pub matches to nothing more than a casual environment? Not everyone likes FW, and this idea stops people from playing with people they know just because matchmaking is crap. Fix matchmaking or add meta level matches. Then we'll see if its squad size that is a problem.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 685	Posted - 2015.01.19 16:08:00 - [13] - Quote And you're focusing on game modes that not everyone plays. Everyone plays public matches. Especially those that need to make isk. Unless missions are added (not these silly daily missions) that are for different NPCs so I can make isk without needing to play PC or a pub match then I wouldn't play pubs. I remember when squad size was at 4, pub stomps happened all the time then. Its not gonna change now.