Two teams are in warbarge awaiting deployment into battle.

1) If Team A has 16 more veterans than Team B, what are the odds that Team B will be stomped?

2) If Team A has 8 more veterans than Team B, what are the odds that Team B will be stomped?

3) If Team A has 1 more veteran than Team B, what are the odds that Team B will be stomped?

Bonus) As the difference in veteran count approaches zero, does the probability of a one-sided stomp increase, decrease or remain unchanged?

Then public matched become completely pointless. The only ways isk should be made in FW is through salvage, missions and selling LP items (selling obviously won't work atm and missions could me introduced).

I'm going to go with no on this one.

To begin, changing the squad sizes from 6 to 4 will do very little (if anything) to reduce stomping in Public Contracts. Four players (assuming competence) are very capable of stomping PUBs to the same difficulty (or lack thereof) as a squad of 6 players can.

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Then we also have the fact that one of the few strengths this game has over other FPSs is the ability to converse and enjoy the company of others. Being forced to play a PC or FW match just to play with your friends (without being forced to exclude some) will cause many to leave, as the social appeal is gone.

While one could say "that group should just play FW or PC", that is a flawed statement for a host of reasons:

1. Not all friends fight for the same faction, which means that the group will either be forced to exclude friends to play FW, group member(s) may be forced to betray their faction, or the group as a whole will not participate in FW.

2. Most squads play about 10 matches before disbanding, so if you don't already have clones (which only PC groups have), you will need to purchase clone packs (50mil ISK each). So if you want to play with your friends for the length of an average play session, you'll need to spend 500mil ISK.

Couple that with the logistics of forming teams, and the fact that all of these battles have to be scheduled 24hrs in advance and playing PC is an impossible solution to not being able to play with your friends unless your in a PC group (which the majority of players in support of this idea aren't in).

I like it, but the 18 man requirement will reduce performance.

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Moving on, in a balanced game, all roles are needed equally which means that each squad needs to have 1 of each-role to be proficient. With the current squad sizes, that's possible as we have 5 Infantry Roles (with one slot being open for a Vehicle Pilot). When all roles are needed equally, how does the inability for a squad to use all roles make sense?

You could just rely on another squad, but that's impossible in PUBs because the players there are usually terrible and can't be relied on for anything, and in PC (or FW) you can select the team composition and give them orders, making them actually reliable.

And while yes, many players have access to more than 1 role, the new players (the people that this change is designed to help) won't, which makes them unable to win a match as they won't be able to utilize all the roles needed to do so.

There are much better ways to solve this problem, and I personally believe that my solution is better.

I like it, but the 18 man requirement will reduce performance.

[...]

I like it, but the 18 man requirement will reduce performance.

Well at this point a performance reduction would be bad, but is it possible to implement the idea with the current team sizes?

You need to get Reading Comprehension to Operation V as soon as possible.

If you read the full post you would see that I clearly stated that while the veteran player can stomp with 4 players since they have access to a multitude of roles, the new players would need the squad of 6 to remain capable of handling multiple situations on the field .

(ie if they don't have an AVer/Commando and an HAV shows up the new players are screwed as they don't have an Commando in the squad while the veteran players can just swamp to a Commando). So to answer your question directly, the veterans could stomp with 4 while the new players need 6 to compete.

Who is this "they" that you're talking about? This isn't the War Room so the only person I represent is myself, and I don't remember claiming to be in opposition of a meta bracket.

Though I find your propaganda funny as my proposal would be literally "giving "them" their own PUBs" for both squaded and solo players.


Well at this point a performance reduction would be bad, but is it possible to implement the idea with the current team sizes?

This is what y'all stickied? Seriously?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=183512

smh.

@ Voidfaction

There's no reason to put words in Atiim's mouth. Doing so is neither fair nor is it constructive. We'd do well to hear him out so we can better understand his concerns and counterpoints.

I agree with almost everything that those that want the 6 or even 8 man squads in pubs are saying. I just don't agree with it in only 1 pub area.
There needs to be someplace for noobs and casual players to play and not be stomped by the corps and proto players.
I know I suck because my age and slower reaction time add on to that physical reasons from injury. So I play only in pubs while only in std gear MOST of the time. I don' t play to prove I am better than anyone I play to have fun. That is why I have spent all the money I have spent on this game is for enjoyment not to prove I am better than anyone.
He defends proto stomping I defend the little man that just wants to have fun in a fair game.
We are both right and both wrong. Only difference is I voice to add 2nd pub he wants to keep proto stomping the regular pubs.
Big difference. My way gives both what they want his way only gives his way.

Oh and by the way i run a FW squad and we need to do pubs often to keep doing FW, my isk wallet isn't set to unlimited, I'm not screwing friend 5 and 6 on our isk grinds so this would be a deal breaker on the game for me

If thats the case, then you and your squad are not playing the game properly. You arent making the right choices with the right gear and its costing you. Im Lv6 in my Faction, i got 60mil ISK and im 50% of the way to my 2nd Gal BPO....and i roll solo 95% of the time. If I can make a New Eden living out of it, so can you.

Just look at the system in a good light: When i FW, sure, sometimes i need to raise some ISK. About 5 pub matches covers my losses for about 8-10 FW games. So your 6 man squad, you break into a 4 man and 2 man squad, play 5 games, pick up 2 extra players on the small squad and voila...now you have an 8man team ready for the new FW deploy once the 5 ISK raising matches are complete.

You get 8 other people to do like you, and youll have a 16 man team for FW. With a 16 man team, youll lose alot less ISK and will have to play less pubs. Do you see where im going with this? Just about everyone stands to gain.

I think he stickied the one that was much closer to what had been proposed and discussed internally. That's why.

I think he stickied the one that was much closer to what had been proposed and discussed internally. That's why.

The only downside to separate pub queues for solo players and squads is that right now we don't have a lot of players to work with. Only 40 to 100 matches can be supported by the number of players we have online at any given time. This also goes for meta lockout as well. The smaller and smaller you make individual pools the less efficient a matchmaking system ends up being.

If steps can be taken that will improve player retention and increase the population of the game over time a lot of possibilities start to open up though.

Hello,
FW is for squads, q sinc's, and more. Basely it's an PC, but not for your corp.....

Many of us don't like this game mode . Please let us untiick this option.

Player retention is not going to go up if noobs are slaughtered over and over in pubs by proto players
Vets and proto stompers make fun and laugh about getting players to quit. They do not care about player retention.
If those are the types of people CCP is going to listen to then I am in the wrong game.

When is the best time to worry about player retention? After everyone quits or before?

Do we keep the players we have until the proto stompers drive more noob and casual players to quit?
Or
Do something now to try and keep new players and casual players?

I need to know the answer to that.

You need to get Reading Comprehension to Operation V as soon as possible.

If you read the full post you would see that I clearly stated that while the veteran player can stomp with 4 players since they have access to a multitude of roles, the new players would need the squad of 6 to remain capable of handling multiple situations on the field .

(ie if they don't have an AVer/Commando and an HAV shows up the new players are screwed as they don't have an Commando in the squad while the veteran players can just swamp to a Commando). So to answer your question directly, the veterans could stomp with 4 while the new players need 6 to compete.

Who is this "they" that you're talking about? This isn't the War Room so the only person I represent is myself, and I don't remember claiming to be in opposition of a meta bracket.

Though I find your propaganda funny as my proposal would be literally "giving "them" their own PUBs" for both squaded and solo players.


Well at this point a performance reduction would be bad, but is it possible to implement the idea with the current team sizes?

What about the following?

For FW queue:
- Standard squad (4) works as today (matched against other squads and solo players) and starts a 16 vs 16 game.
- Preference will always be given to match Battleforce against Battleforce, but if no match is made 2 Platoons is selected.
- Platoons might get matched against Battleforces (as above) or 2 other Platoons.

The one that (at the time of stickying) lacks a reason? OP posted a good point before yet forgot to put it into this thread's original post. Or the one which has a title that the Devs are hoping the community will get behind? <.<

It's lazy and when discussing such an important issue laziness will not do.