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[Suggestion] Reduce Squad Size

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
voidfaction Nos Nothi 936	Posted - 2015.01.12 05:30:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The CPM is very vocally split on this topic. I think it is one of the simplest way to alleviate pubstomping but I do understand that 4 is limiting when you have an active corp and want to play with your friends. I am looking at whether we can have 4 man squads for public and keep 6 or even 8 for FW. I vote for the 4 man squads in pubs. That is all I play to try to have fun and shoot some people. Give some isk payout in FW so maybe the big corps or squads will move to FW and leave the pubs for the anti-social like me. FW does not pay for the expense of battle. It seems to me a bracket would be so easy making pubs the low meta 40 gear (adv gear) for fun and learning to work in small squads. I run a 13 meta suit most of the time and can do well when not being proto stomped or vs a stacked team. When you want more competitive squad play you move up to FW with isk payout and no meta lockout. PC is already there for BIG CORPS to battle it out in full proto tactical squads. Then all we would need is scotty not to put the 4 4 man squads on 1 team and all solo/noobs on the other If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 938	Posted - 2015.01.12 07:58:00 - [2] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The CPM is very vocally split on this topic. I think it is one of the simplest way to alleviate pubstomping but I do understand that 4 is limiting when you have an active corp and want to play with your friends. I am looking at whether we can have 4 man squads for public and keep 6 or even 8 for FW. PLEASE don't reduce squad size. Rather, increase FW squad size to eight, and keep public squads at six. I for one do not fancy the idea of going back to the old days of small squads, as I believe that playing with your friends is a key component to an engaging multiplayer experience. Why take that away? That was one (of many) things that turned me off of Destiny. I couldn't play with the people I enjoyed hanging out with, and therefore became frustrated and ultimately quit. My fondest memories of Dust will always be of the times where six, twelve, or even sixteen of my companions all joined together to enjoy the game we love. They should just add in another option to the battle finder. 1. for lone mercenaries or small squads = solo to squad of 4 2. for large squads = large squads 3. faction = large squads 4. corp = full team I bet option 1 would have shorter wait time. I bet you still would not be happy either because it would be harder to pubstomp a bunch of solo/noobs because they would be in option 1. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 941	Posted - 2015.01.12 10:57:00 - [3] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Kain Spero wrote: shaman oga wrote: I still think that squad of 8 will reduce stomp even in pub match, provided MM don't put 2 full squad on the same side. If you did this maybe you still have the squads of 4 that can link up? I do think that 8 man squads in pubs would make the problem worse though. The saying "teamwork is OP" is quite true in most cases. Stomp is already a thing with squad of 6. With 16 players, there is room for two squad of 6 and one squad of 4. If squad are of 8, there is room for two squads of 8. So, if teamwork is OP, in current situation we have 3 squads using teamwork, with squad of 8 you have 2. Squad of 8 should also be easier to match one against the other, without "the intruder squad of 4". The other benefit is have more friends to play with you. You said it. Stomp is already a thing with squad of 6. So lets make it easier to stomp and make pub squad size 8 If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 948	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:44:00 - [4] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The CPM is very vocally split on this topic. I think it is one of the simplest way to alleviate pubstomping but I do understand that 4 is limiting when you have an active corp and want to play with your friends. I am looking at whether we can have 4 man squads for public and keep 6 or even 8 for FW. What about public matches that are divided by security space? 1.0 - 0.5 security space will only allow 4 player squads 0.4 - null security space will allow you to have the standard 6 player squad. Make contracts in low-sec & null sec space give you more payout and salvage to appeal to players that want to play to win and not pub around. This will somewhat help separate the casual player that doesn't care all too much about winning and the Hardcore player that wants to win. However, there will still be K/D padders, especially guys from my alliance. This is great. Gives it the EVE feel of security levels. Now if you want to put down casual players be sure to put down your hardcore players as well. Casual player don't want to win and hardcore players want to bully the solo noob players because hardcore players cant win a fair game is how you should have worded it. I'm a casual player and I always play to win. I don't do squads, mics, or believe in proto stomping in pubs. That does not mean I do not care about winning. It means I choose to play the game in hard mode running solo in std fits not easy mode in full squad of 6 all in proto. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 957	Posted - 2015.01.13 18:58:00 - [5] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: SirManBoy wrote: If groups of +4 only have PC and FW to play in, then we have essentially confined larger groups to skirmish type matches, exclusively. BLEH!!! This produces a horrible dilemma for some players--you can either party with a large group of your buddies but play only one match type all of the time, or you can play your favorite non-skirm match type (dom in my case) but do so with just three other mercs. In my opinion, it's a less than ideal solution I dont get your logic. So lets nevermind the new players who dont have core skills or protofits or map knowledge. Lets continue to put them against 6 man stomp squads from your corp because "These are friends partying". So if you arent stomping new players, you arent able to have fun? CCP wants to increase salvage payout...based on one of your ideas. Theres a thread in this section. You think that you could focus on the issue? If the problem with 6 people is needing to make ISK to be friends, then why not focus on FW payouts and leave the new and casual players alone in the one mode they have? Why not push for Dom and Ambush to be added to FW? Why not try to make things better, instead of maintaining a status quo thats hobbled the game? Frankly I find your view on squads beyond selfish. There are many ways people can "hang out" in this game. There are chat channels and voice chats and such. I dont understand the whole mentality of "The only way i can hang out with my dear, lifelong friends is by stomping new players in pubs". The ideas in this thread would let pubs become more relaxed, raise the stakes on FW, and allow a better team deploy in PC, and you're hung up on the fact that people with no competitive drive want to "party" by stomping new players out of the academy. SirManBoy is a vet and does not care about new or casual players. He cares about his corp and his friends. CCP needs to think of new money and player retention and not CPMs like SirManBoy proto stomping corps If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 959	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: voidfaction wrote: LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: SirManBoy wrote: If groups of +4 only have PC and FW to play in, then we have essentially confined larger groups to skirmish type matches, exclusively. BLEH!!! This produces a horrible dilemma for some players--you can either party with a large group of your buddies but play only one match type all of the time, or you can play your favorite non-skirm match type (dom in my case) but do so with just three other mercs. In my opinion, it's a less than ideal solution I dont get your logic. So lets nevermind the new players who dont have core skills or protofits or map knowledge. Lets continue to put them against 6 man stomp squads from your corp because "These are friends partying". So if you arent stomping new players, you arent able to have fun? CCP wants to increase salvage payout...based on one of your ideas. Theres a thread in this section. You think that you could focus on the issue? If the problem with 6 people is needing to make ISK to be friends, then why not focus on FW payouts and leave the new and casual players alone in the one mode they have? Why not push for Dom and Ambush to be added to FW? Why not try to make things better, instead of maintaining a status quo thats hobbled the game? Frankly I find your view on squads beyond selfish. There are many ways people can "hang out" in this game. There are chat channels and voice chats and such. I dont understand the whole mentality of "The only way i can hang out with my dear, lifelong friends is by stomping new players in pubs". The ideas in this thread would let pubs become more relaxed, raise the stakes on FW, and allow a better team deploy in PC, and you're hung up on the fact that people with no competitive drive want to "party" by stomping new players out of the academy. SirManBoy is a vet and does not care about new or casual players. He cares about his corp and his friends. CCP needs to think of new money and player retention and not CPMs like SirManBoy proto stomping corps Buddy, I care about this game as much as anyone and I recognize the problems that it faces. However, we need careful solutions that do more than just shift heartaches from one portion of the community to another. I'm certain that such a solution can be found here, but at this juncture I'm simply expressing some of the problems I see with an overly simplistic change that bars squads of a certain size from competing in pubs. I realize that it's a popular idea supported by many people in this thread, but it comes with sacrifices that deserve consideration. I don't think I'm being unfair by saying so. It is unfair because big squads and corps have a place in FW and PC and the rest of us are just ****** over by the big squads and corps in pubs If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 973	Posted - 2015.01.14 03:12:00 - [7] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The CPM is very vocally split on this topic. I think it is one of the simplest way to alleviate pubstomping but I do understand that 4 is limiting when you have an active corp and want to play with your friends. I am looking at whether we can have 4 man squads for public and keep 6 or even 8 for FW. No one wants a persistent outlet for team deploy more than me. NO ONE! But... If groups of +4 only have PC and FW to play in, then we have essentially confined larger groups to skirmish type matches, exclusively. BLEH!!! This produces a horrible dilemma for some players--you can either party with a large group of your buddies but play only one match type all of the time, or you can play your favorite non-skirm match type (dom in my case) but do so with just three other mercs. In my opinion, it's a less than ideal solution. Larger groups deserve access to match variety too, but banishing us to FW takes all of that away. Other things that worry me... 1. War barge strikes become even less frequent with 4-man squads. 2. You can't earn ISK in FW. 3. FW compensation doesn't account for individual match performance. 4. FW stores don't have all of the gear that you need, especially if you are a loyalist. 5. How perfect does the matchmaking have to be before I can deploy into a match? Will my 8-man squad or 16-man platoon be forced to wait around in queue for an equally powerful opponent? And back to domination... What a perfectly-suited match type for two cohesive teams to meet and rip each other apart. Limiting it to 4-man squads is such a waste. If the squads in pubs stay at 6 or is increased to 8 then I would say they need meta lockouts as Rattati has done hinted about. I feel 4 man squads in pubs could be a temporary help to the pub stomping we have now until some kind of meta lockout can be put in place to help prevent pub stomping. This would not be a problem if people did not have the mindset of "Hey lets get a squad of 6 of our best and all run full proto in pubs and just slaughter everyone". You don't see the mindset of "Hey lets get a squad of 6 of our best and all run militia gear to show how we are great even with militia gear". No because they don't want a competitive match they want quick easy isk/SP padding their KdR and to stomp the other team. Now you are here with the mindset of "Hey lets have pub squads of 8 so 8 of our best can all run proto and really slaughter the team of randoms and increase our KdR even more than before". You need to think of the community as a whole not just what favors your corp and friends. But hey its all politics and the biggest crooks and liers are politicians. They always say they are about the people but in reality they are about themselves and what they can do to help themselves. Your corp tag says it all. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 989	Posted - 2015.01.14 12:37:00 - [8] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks everyone, I have requested technical evaluation of the following features: 1)Is it possible to seed Domination modes into the FW rotation 2)Is it possible and easy to give some ISK per FW match 3)Is it possible and easy to roll on your own team gear, instead of the enemies for loot (as Gallente I need Gallente Gear) in FW 4)Is it possible to easily (permanently) align with a faction (bloodpact/loyalist) so you get more LP for that Faction, but massively reduced LP/canGÇÖt fight for the other in FW 5)We are thinking about creating Platoons, which is either 2+ 4 man squads that are joined, or simply an 8, 12 and 16 man squad that can only deploy to FW and PC 6) Is it possible to have, instead of our single squad option, which is causing balance issues where 6 man proto squads farm new players. Create Squad (4) Create Platoon (8) Create Battleforce (16) And let the matchmaker check for conditions: If member in Platoon queues for Public Contracts get errormessage(Platoons and Battleforces cannot queue for Public Contracts!) I think we can solve this whole issue by allowing battleforces to queue into pub matches provided that they can only launch against another battleforce. Teams could coordinate their queues accordingly in channels thus making the situation fairly efficient. This also allows large groupings of players to enjoy all of the match types afforded to everyone else without adding other match types to FW. It might also be worth considering an option in settings that allows players to check whether or not they would be willing to act as auxiliary members of a battleforce that they are themselves not a part of. There are some solo players who would find this appealing and it would also help battleforces fill the gaps when they don't have exactly 16 players. BIG YES I am all for a 2nd public area for large squads if we have the one for noobs and casual players. This would also give me a place i would not feel dirty running proto and possible getting more into squad play. I know being forced into only FW is not so good for corp or friends as they might support different factions and with bloodpact/loyalist it will split them up even more. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 995	Posted - 2015.01.15 04:02:00 - [9] - Quote You see they don't want meta brackets because they want to stomp pubs. They don't want smaller squads because they want to stomp pubs. Me I would do both meta brackets and smaller squads in pub because I believe in screw the griefers that only want to stomp pubs. Give them their own pub to stomp in so they have no excuse of "but I have 5 friends what am i going to do?" or "Without all 5 roles and a pilot a team of randoms will stomp us". If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 995	Posted - 2015.01.15 04:20:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: I'm going to go with no on this one. To begin, changing the squad sizes from 6 to 4 will do very little (if anything) to reduce stomping in Public Contracts. Four players (assuming competence) are very capable of stomping PUBs to the same difficulty (or lack thereof) as a squad of 6 players can. --- Then we also have the fact that one of the few strengths this game has over other FPSs is the ability to converse and enjoy the company of others. Being forced to play a PC or FW match just to play with your friends (without being forced to exclude some) will cause many to leave, as the social appeal is gone. While one could say "that group should just play FW or PC", that is a flawed statement for a host of reasons: 1. Not all friends fight for the same faction, which means that the group will either be forced to exclude friends to play FW, group member(s) may be forced to betray their faction, or the group as a whole will not participate in FW. 2. Most squads play about 10 matches before disbanding, so if you don't already have clones (which only PC groups have), you will need to purchase clone packs (50mil ISK each). So if you want to play with your friends for the length of an average play session, you'll need to spend 500mil ISK. Couple that with the logistics of forming teams, and the fact that all of these battles have to be scheduled 24hrs in advance and playing PC is an impossible solution to not being able to play with your friends unless your in a PC group (which the majority of players in support of this idea aren't in). -- Moving on, in a balanced game, all roles are needed equally which means that each squad needs to have 1 of each-role to be proficient. With the current squad sizes, that's possible as we have 5 Infantry Roles (with one slot being open for a Vehicle Pilot). When all roles are needed equally, how does the inability for a squad to use all roles make sense? You could just rely on another squad, but that's impossible in PUBs because the players there are usually terrible and can't be relied on for anything, and in PC (or FW) you can select the team composition and give them orders, making them actually reliable. And while yes, many players have access to more than 1 role, the new players (the people that this change is designed to help) won't, which makes them unable to win a match as they won't be able to utilize all the roles needed to do so. There are much better ways to solve this problem, and I personally believe that my solution is better. I like it, but the 18 man requirement will reduce performance. I like how first he says they are VERY CAPABLE of stonping pubs with 4 as with 6 but then goes to say that 6 man squads are required to have every role and a pilot. Which is it do you need squads of 4 to stomp or 6 in pubs? I mean most are randoms and noobs so how organized do you need to be and how proficient of a squad do you need to be. You see they don't want meta brackets because they want to stomp pubs. They don't want smaller squads because they want to stomp pubs. Me I would do both meta brackets and smaller squads in pub because I believe in screw the griefers that only want to stomp pubs. Give them their own pub to stomp in so they have no excuse of "but I have 5 friends what am i going to do?" or "Without all 5 roles and a pilot a team of randoms will stomp us after commenting we can stomp just as well with 4 as we can 6, lol". If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout

voidfaction Nos Nothi 995	Posted - 2015.01.15 05:23:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: voidfaction wrote: [...] You need to get Reading Comprehension to Operation V as soon as possible. If you read the full post you would see that I clearly stated that while the veteran player can stomp with 4 players since they have access to a multitude of roles, the new players would need the squad of 6 to remain capable of handling multiple situations on the field . (ie if they don't have an AVer/Commando and an HAV shows up the new players are screwed as they don't have an Commando in the squad while the veteran players can just swamp to a Commando). So to answer your question directly, the veterans could stomp with 4 while the new players need 6 to compete. Who is this "they" that you're talking about? This isn't the War Room so the only person I represent is myself, and I don't remember claiming to be in opposition of a meta bracket. Though I find your propaganda funny as my proposal would be literally "giving "them" their own PUBs" for both squaded and solo players. CCP Rattati wrote: I like it, but the 18 man requirement will reduce performance. Well at this point a performance reduction would be bad, but is it possible to implement the idea with the current team sizes? My reading Comprehension is fine. So you saying only noobs should be allowed squads of 6 in pubs? LOL Because simple comprehension = If the noob team needs 6 to compensate vs a squad of 4 then simple math would say a noob team would need a squad of 8 to compensate vs a squad of 6. Yeah, I still comprehend it right. You need a squad of 16 proto stompers on your team vs noobs because your KdR might go down in a fair match. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 996	Posted - 2015.01.15 05:48:00 - [12] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Voidfaction There's no reason to put words in Atiim's mouth. Doing so is neither fair nor is it constructive. We'd do well to hear him out so we can better understand his concerns and counterpoints. I agree with almost everything that those that want the 6 or even 8 man squads in pubs are saying. I just don't agree with it in only 1 pub area. There needs to be someplace for noobs and casual players to play and not be stomped by the corps and proto players. I know I suck because my age and slower reaction time add on to that physical reasons from injury. So I play only in pubs while only in std gear MOST of the time. I don' t play to prove I am better than anyone I play to have fun. That is why I have spent all the money I have spent on this game is for enjoyment not to prove I am better than anyone. He defends proto stomping I defend the little man that just wants to have fun in a fair game. We are both right and both wrong. Only difference is I voice to add 2nd pub he wants to keep proto stomping the regular pubs. Big difference. My way gives both what they want his way only gives his way. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 999	Posted - 2015.01.15 07:26:00 - [13] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: voidfaction wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Voidfaction There's no reason to put words in Atiim's mouth. Doing so is neither fair nor is it constructive. We'd do well to hear him out so we can better understand his concerns and counterpoints. I agree with almost everything that those that want the 6 or even 8 man squads in pubs are saying. I just don't agree with it in only 1 pub area. There needs to be someplace for noobs and casual players to play and not be stomped by the corps and proto players. I know I suck because my age and slower reaction time add on to that physical reasons from injury. So I play only in pubs while only in std gear MOST of the time. I don' t play to prove I am better than anyone I play to have fun. That is why I have spent all the money I have spent on this game is for enjoyment not to prove I am better than anyone. He defends proto stomping I defend the little man that just wants to have fun in a fair game. We are both right and both wrong. Only difference is I voice to add 2nd pub he wants to keep proto stomping the regular pubs. Big difference. My way gives both what they want his way only gives his way. The only downside to separate pub queues for solo players and squads is that right now we don't have a lot of players to work with. Only 40 to 100 matches can be supported by the number of players we have online at any given time. This also goes for meta lockout as well. The smaller and smaller you make individual pools the less efficient a matchmaking system ends up being. If steps can be taken that will improve player retention and increase the population of the game over time a lot of possibilities start to open up though. Player retention is not going to go up if noobs are slaughtered over and over in pubs by proto players Vets and proto stompers make fun and laugh about getting players to quit. They do not care about player retention. If those are the types of people CCP is going to listen to then I am in the wrong game. When is the best time to worry about player retention? After everyone quits or before? Do we keep the players we have until the proto stompers drive more noob and casual players to quit? Or Do something now to try and keep new players and casual players? I need to know the answer to that. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1006	Posted - 2015.01.15 18:55:00 - [14] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: What about the following? For FW queue: - Standard squad (4) works as today (matched against other squads and solo players) and starts a 16 vs 16 game. - Preference will always be given to match Battleforce against Battleforce, but if no match is made 2 Platoons is selected. - Platoons might get matched against Battleforces (as above) or 2 other Platoons. You guys have me close to sold on 4-man squads in pubs provided that we find a solution that allows larger groups to enjoy the same match variety as everyone else, but if we're going down the road of making pubs more friendly to solo players, new players, etc., then I see no reason to go out of the way to protect people in FW. Where there are balance mechanics meant to protect players there is no true meta. I'm okay with protectionist matchmaking principles in pubs because they are meant to be a more casual experience, but if we ever hope to give meaning to FW then we really need the gloves to come off so that it's a harsher experience. There should be a potential cost to being anti-social in FW and a potential benefit for those who form ties and make allies. There is no net gain in the meta of FW if the advantage of being on an organized team is always cancelled out against another perfectly matched opponent. If we ever find a way to make the faction experience similar to the corp/alliance experience, then people could more easily find each other and interact with their factional allies thereby naturally promoting organized team play over soloing. In my opinion, FW needs to be something totally unique and entirely meta-driven, but pub-style matchmaking balance jeopardizes that vision. By the way, if you disagree with that sentiment, be kind enough to express your dissent without resorting to insults, innuendos, or other remarks that serve only to attack me for who I am or what corp I belong to. There's really no need for that kind of discourse. Thanks. Now you just described how I see things. FW should be the closest thing to PC. If I as a solo player joins FW match I expect it to be super hard mode. To my surprise back a few months ago I started playing FW only to find less Proto stomps but I was playing Gal so for what I hear that alone makes it easy mode. I quit playing FW because I quickly realised I needed pubs to pay for equipment. I thought no wonder wait times are long it is not rewarding enough to keep people playing it. I think FW should be the high risk high reward game mode. It should be where everyone wants to be. I see it as the end game while PC is ultimate end game for the Hardcore player. The last part with FW needing to be meta-driven, but pub-style matchmaking balance jeopardizes that. Can you explain that a little for me. You say meta-driven you get my interests. The same as I think it is you that wants "you keep what you kill". I know I can be one of those replies rude. That is how I am I am not good at expressing myself or sugar coating. Most everything I say comes out as a rant or put down even when I don't really mean them to be. I am the type if a girl ask if she looks fat in a pair of paints I tell her no you are just fat. I expect and welcome the same in return. Brutal honesty. Call me illiterate I dont care because I know your right, lol If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1008	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:14:00 - [15] - Quote xAckie wrote: Aidualc wrote: Public Squad 4 members... and Meta-Lock... will save Dust. I don't see how meta lock will work. It will divide the player base up further. and people will go to their starter fits and wreck with all their sp bonuses. Meta lock (if I understand it right) is a poor substitute for tiercide. Its a way to balance vs noobs. sure a vet with high SP has the advantage but they wont have the added advantage of a running full proto. so many say proto dont mean anything then why do so many squad up and run full proto now in pubs? If proto means nothing why are they not all running militia fits now and saving isk? easy answer because running proto is a big advantage and even bigger when those running proto have 4 other roles they can swap to when needed. Do what I did the other day. I bought 50 proto scout fits and run them until they were gone then run 50 adv fits run them until they were gone now back to my std fits. Big difference in KdR and all around big difference in effectiveness. I have 2 proto scouts Cal and Gal (shield tank or armor tank / armor dmg or shield dmg) no points in any other suit. 15 million in dropsuit upgrades (everything maxed except repair tool, nanohives, uplinks, armor repair, shield recharge, shield regulators, and the 3 biotic upgrades. Maxed out weapons except opt > assault rifle, rail rifle, sniper rifle, bolt pistol, and ion pistol. all that in a proto suit is way more to put against noobs. meta lock will nerf me closer to the noob lvl but still give me a good advantage to balance out vs other like me or better than me. Its normal for me in std gear. with meta locks I will know I can make a difference in low meta pubs. I also know if i play FW I should be ready to either get stopmed in std gear or pull out my adv or proto gear i have been saving up for running pubs. I guess I just don't have the mindset to be a griefer or bully. I don't want to squash the new guy. I want a fair game. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1009	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:51:00 - [16] - Quote xAckie wrote: voidfaction wrote: xAckie wrote: Aidualc wrote: Public Squad 4 members... and Meta-Lock... will save Dust. I don't see how meta lock will work. It will divide the player base up further. and people will go to their starter fits and wreck with all their sp bonuses. Meta lock (if I understand it right) is a poor substitute for tiercide. Its a way to balance vs noobs. sure a vet with high SP has the advantage but they wont have the added advantage of a running full proto. so many say proto dont mean anything then why do so many squad up and run full proto now in pubs? If proto means nothing why are they not all running milit Stuff,,,,,..,,, or proto gear i have been saving up for running pubs. I guess I just don't have the mindset to be a griefer or bully. I don't want to squash the new guy. I want a fair game. I don't disagree with your view. But I still don't see how meta lock stops the division of a small player bse further and creates an artificial barrier when one isn't needed if tiercide is introduced. I am not entirely sure why this isn't being proposed rather than meta lock. I don't understand tiercide and how it would balance pub matches. small player base is the biggest problem. first we need a player base to do lots of things but cant keep people if they are stomped into quiting. its a catch 22 damned if if do damned if we dont. A tuff call for whoever makes the decisions at this point with such a low player base. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1016	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:07:00 - [17] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Realized one problem: If you have more than 3 friends and want to play a dom. Bush, I feel, should be kept as a pub match only thing, and should have low squad numbers anyways, just because of the way it works (one team pushes, the other team ends up smart deploying in a circle of full proto shooting them to see who can get the kill until the match ends). ]I have no friends Will you be my friend even though I don't have/use a mic? I run scans full time if that helps. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1018	Posted - 2015.01.17 23:32:00 - [18] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: So I have now done some research and have found that a completely random grouping of people in Pubs in a squad does work even without mic support, just using basic squad commands (squad leader knows what he/she is doing with the almighty wheel) and by playing as a team of people. To do this I made a "Public" squad and waited for it to fill up with people. As time went on we went from Dominating the matches (domination mode) to outright cloning out the other team over the course of 3 hrs. The squad started as 2 members and grew with each match and was successful. We had squad members from more than one random corp and it was amazing how well everyone who just wanted to play as a team could work together both without comms and without any instructions other than normal squad commands. We did not proto stomp, we rolled over all the solo players on the other teams. Like a wave of terror they ran fleeing to the hills and tried to snipe us but still we came on strong and persevered. It was like a death squad in some horror film, not even the tanks that they threw at us could stand up to our fury. Keep in mind this was a completely random group of mercs who all joined a squad and deployed with some simple planning before hand. Punch for ammo, stay together to stay alive, follow squad orders for movement. This is not hard to do guys and really funny how well it worked. Thank you to all who participated in the application of bullets with me this afternoon. It was a true pleasure I will be running these Public Access Squads on a regular basis, if you want to be part of the "education process" join me in schooling the solos, one match at a time. Can that work with a flanking scout in the squad? I could handle being in a squad like that but as a scout I don't play front line. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1024	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:58:00 - [19] - Quote @Rattati Is this something that might happen in 2 months or longer? I need to know if I should buy more rubber bands for AFKing the proto stomps in pubs If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1024	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:34:00 - [20] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: voidfaction wrote: derp Looks like you'll be needing more than rubber bands: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187538&find=unread I have a BPO logi so I will only need to play long enough to drop some uplinks. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout

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