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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4632	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:07:00 - [1] - Quote I honestly think heavies and commando's could use 15m base scan range and scouts/assaults get 20 and logi's get slightly more. Scanners cost a ** ton of resources to fit (afaik the focused is 18 ***** pg 0_0) (but honestly I'd be fine if all but the flux scanners were squad only) Passive scans being shared needs to get blown to smithereens. I don't know what it will take...but it just needs to happen. So long as you can have one person sacrifice to be the dude with the best passive scans and just share the investment with everyone around you at all times...e-war will never be truly balanced. Precision on Scouts need to be worse than assaults and assaults worse than logi's. not terribad, but yes they need to give up the edge in precision game. Scouts were given an extra slot in 1.8. and they can all choose to get under all scans (sans gallogi focused) with 2 slots being used. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4638	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:34:00 - [2] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Scouts need longer range than every other suit. It shouldn't be too OP since virtually every suit can get under most combat-fit scout's scans. 25m should be fine. Passive sharing is fine, about as fair as a perma-scanning GalLogi. What's so wrong about sacrificing one player's usefulness in combat (no ehp due to all scan mods) to help the team with passives? If anything is to be done with passives, make them only available on the mini-map and make active scans show on both the mini-map and HUD. That should be mor balanced. Umm...because an amarr scout only needs to sacrifice 3 slots that cost about...that 100 cpu/0 pg? Vs a gal logi focused who using 4 slots and about what...72 PG before bonuses and a **** ton of CPU to get 5 seconds windows of opportunity with a long cooldown. You can't feasibly keep them up the whole time. and you're sacrificing tank as well due to the fitting costs. My double precision amarr scout? Stil 500 ehp on my scan fit. for perma scans. The underlined is cool...as an aside. But no passive scans need to be for yourself. I have a lot of red flags about providing scouts with advantages in all 3 aspects of e-war. What if Assaults had the best base range and logi's had the best base precision but 5m less range? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4639	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:46:00 - [3] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I have a lot of red flags about providing scouts with advantages in all 3 aspects of e-war. Somewhat confused. Why can't squishy scouts be better at EWAR than 1000+ HP units? And if Zatara had his way, what would want Scouts to do in PC? Oh they absolutely should. Who insinuated otherwise? But when a squishy scout has the meta in all three aspects of e-war then you get to today in PC...where scouts are only not the most spammed thing in PC because when assaulting a point heavies ehp/hmg dps >cloak/re scouts. What should their purpose in PC be? You take scouts in 1.7 and add in the extra high or low and the equip slot...to say nothing of the cloak..and 1.7 woulda been awesome. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4639	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:11:00 - [4] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: ... Again with insinuations that I am not asserting. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4639	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:19:00 - [5] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I have a lot of red flags about providing scouts with advantages in all 3 aspects of e-war. Somewhat confused. Why can't squishy scouts be better at EWAR than 1000+ HP units? And if Zatara had his way, what would want Scouts to do in PC? Oh they absolutely should. Who insinuated otherwise? But when a squishy scout has the meta in all three aspects of e-war then you get to today in PC...where scouts are only not the most spammed thing in PC because when assaulting a point heavies ehp/hmg dps >cloak/re scouts. What should their purpose in PC be? You take scouts in 1.7 and add in the extra high or low and the equip slot...to say nothing of the cloak..and 1.7 woulda been awesome. I am by no means a PC player, but when cloaks are intimately tied to EWAR (all except for Gal), and you at the very least have a higher occurrence of Gal Logi's with Focused scanners and Amarr with max precision than pubs/FW, then you in essence force them to use the cloaks. No maybe there is some fluke where PC players aren't maxing their passive and active scanning abilities, I don't know. But it seems to me that in PC, of all places, because of the likelyhood to max out suit fittings, and having EWAR tied up in cloaks, that it is only natural that is what they would use. On paper gal logi's look really appetizing in attempting to play a role in detecting scouts.. In practice...they are useless at detecting scouts...and amarr aren't much better. The % of the time you're going to scan a scout in PC because you used a gallogi focused is lol...and then it's 5 seconds with a long cooldown. So yeah..all scouts in PC use 2 damps + cloak...what's your point? Unless facing an opponent who you presume is a noob (pubs)..there's very little reason -not- to run 2 damps and a cloak in all situations..unless you're purposefully brick tanking it. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4639	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:41:00 - [6] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: ... Again with insinuations that I am not asserting. I'm not intending to assert or insinuation anything. Simply seeking clarification. Assuming Shared Passives cannot be disabled: 1. Do you think Scouts should be penalized when they HP tank? 2. Do you think Scout Scan Precision should be made inferior to Assault Scan Precision? Umm...should there be opportunity costs for scouts brick tanking? Yes. Do I think assaults should have better precision than scouts? either better...or the same. If not assaults. Give the best precision to logi's. They will have less EHP, but have first shot advantage in a default scenario. I also think range amplifiers should be a set amount of meters! B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4640	Posted - 2014.11.18 01:08:00 - [7] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: They will have less EHP, but have first shot advantage in a default scenario. I'd expect the opposite, as MedFrames have a good 'bit more base HP and better slot count than Scouts. So, what would prevent high HP units from running high-intensity, shared passive scans? If high-intensity, shared passive scans have to exists, wouldn't it be best to restrict them to easy-to-squish units? I was comparing medium to assault combat. Scouts would still just damp up and own mediums from behind like they already do. What prevents HP ehp units from running high intensity, shared passive scans? Well...for one assaults and logi's rarely get more than 800 ehp. a scout fully damped can get around 500-600ehp. so you can retain 70% of ehp for the meta in scanning...dampening..and precision? this is working very poorly for balance indeed. Scouts need to retain the meta on dampening, but surrender the meta on precision and either share the meta, or surrender it on scan range. I have already expressed my thoughts on passive scanning...I think they need to find a way to turn it off. But if there's going to be a meta of passive scanning...it should be assaults or logi's. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4716	Posted - 2014.11.18 22:52:00 - [8] - Quote 13ard wrote: What happened in your scenario of 'low ehp', cloak, e-war gods? We have what we have now. Where shotgun scouts > all except a blob of heavies. This can't really be overstated. 1.8 made it scout 514 unless you blob heavies. Assaults can get by in pubs but they are lol in a competitive environment when you aren't facing blueberries. I couldn't agree more with that assessment. Compare that to 1.7 where scouts did not have cloaks, the meta on precision (and mediums were participants in the e-war game) and more...and scouts in the competitive scene were VERY much viable and had a critical role. The gal logi focused meta should replace the meta of focused scanners in 1.7 and it SHOULD take you three damps to get below it (or 2 complex and a basic or cloak IMO for gal) because of the HUGE disadvantages a focused has. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4720	Posted - 2014.11.18 23:07:00 - [9] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Zatara Rought Scouts post-1.8 are certainly overpowered. But what's your basis for claiming that pre-1.8 scouts were VERY much viable? Without going into a much more detailed post... Because in the most competitive PC matches...3-4 scouts were used on either side. When team composition was being determined...where NOW the question is "do we have enough scouts and heavies?" the question then was "do we have enough heavies?" "who we have enough logi's?" "do we have enough scouts?" Scouts were an integral part of PC meta. Now...they've been buffed to the point they are the only integral part of any PC team aside from heavies. BTW FTFY B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4720	Posted - 2014.11.18 23:13:00 - [10] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I apologize in advance if you already answered these and I missed it. 1) What do the Amarr (Precision) and Caldari (Range) get for sacrificing their current roles? 2) What sacrifices will the Medium Frames make to get this new bonus? Umm.. Great question. Cal scout is very much welcome to retain the meta on range. but it's precision will be such that without mods it should only pick up heavies and all equips...barring investment into precision mods. Amarr scout could retain it's bonus...simply moving the bar back (again on precision) would make it as competitive in the precision game as a 1 complex precision invested assault or logi (whichever one get's the best innate base precision) So it would be covering a weakness and turning it into a mild strength...instead of it being the meta of passive scans. As for mediums giving up stuff? Logi's/Assaults in non lol blueberry environments are horrifically UP. What did scouts give up in exchange for the cloak...an extra slot...and extra equip..after 1.7? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4721	Posted - 2014.11.18 23:39:00 - [11] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Honestly, just removing cloaks would help balance so much. I honestly don't think so. And I don't want that to happen. The BEST part about cloaking is that it allows their users to actively influence their e-war. We don't want scouts nerfed into oblivion (not that I think removing the cloak would) and we don't want to remove content. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:00:00 - [12] - Quote post is having issues. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4727	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:14:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Honestly, just removing cloaks would help balance so much. I honestly don't think so. And I don't want that to happen. The BEST part about cloaking is that it allows their users to actively influence their e-war. We don't want scouts nerfed into oblivion (not that I think removing the cloak would) and we don't want to remove content. Has incentivising the Cloak as a Tactical tool as opposed to a Short Range Weapons Delivery System been discussed. Things like for example -Reducing mobility while cloaked? - Stationary Cloaking only? -Perhaps not even a Visual cloak but an EWAR clock that knocks your scan profile off of the map. I only suggest it, admittedly knowing little about scouts, so that the cloak remains as a useful and thematic tool for the role while impressing on scouts its importance/usefulness without conveying too many benefits. I mean it is one of the (essentially speaking) only class specific modules in the game right now. Personally I'd prefer to give the cloak back it's 90 second duration at proto and make it so that the current visual effect obtained from standing still was consistent the entire time even when sprinting...but in exchange you needed to wait 2-3 seconds after decloaking (fix firing from cloak and the currently messed up decloak sound delay) and a delay to recloak of like 5 seconds after firing or other 'offensive' actions. So the cloak is intended for recon and insertion. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4727	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:23:00 - [14] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: True Adamance wrote: More cloak nerfs Problem: 600+ HP "Assault Lite" Scouts are OP. Complaint: Assault Lite are out-assaulting Assault. Solution: Nerf cloak and remove Scout scans. Outcome: Problem Scouts are unaffected; all other Scouts are rendered less effective. See...this is where you're missing the point.. It's not 600 ehp tanky scouts owning everything in PC as the number 2 infantry killer behind HMG. It's invisible shotgun scouts....with minimal mod tank ehp. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4730	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:39:00 - [15] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: The only minimal HP Shotgun Scouts I've seen in PC are the ones I've OHK'd. The very best Shotgun Scouts I've seen in PC (Marauder, Roner, Fusion) all stacked plates. I personally prefer a Gal w/2 damps, 2 plates and 2 extenders, and that's way than "minimal HP" in my book. All anecdotal, I know. So is the quote above based upon actual data, or is it based on your personal observation/expectation/etc? Fusion and Marauder did not stack plates...lol Marauder ran a damp, a repair mod, a kin kat, and a plate. that I know for sure. Because he posted it in the war room. Fusion stacking plates? lol, no. At least...not currently. Last i checked he ran 2 damps a kin kat and a reactive. Frost Kitty runs 2 reactive afaik and 1 damp and 1 kin kat...but he pubs i'm sure he uses 2 damps in PC. Point is...no they aren't brick tanked scouts suits. It's quick, invis/damped, kin katted, shotgun scouts. Not 'assault lite's' i can ask roner what he ran...but yeah. Nerfing the scout into having worse innate precision (and this is ALL dependent on mediums being buffed into having a chance at dampening *not the meta) along with fixing the cloak (delay to fire bug...decloak sound bug...passive/active scanning negating the purpose of their profile being reduced while in cloak) would do wonders. We need to recognize the issue...we are in scout 514...and it isn't scout 514 because brick tank lol scouts with AR's. It's 500 (around) ehp scouts zipping around with a proto cloak on NEVER having the disadvantage of being detected until they are shooting 2 shotgun blasts into someone's back before they can react. The scout was not infinitely far from being balanced in 1.7...it wasn't horrendously UP. Scouts were in a better position in 1.7 competitively than assaults and logi's are in 1.8. If you were to pull the participation rates in PC for scouts in 1.7 vs the assaults in 1.8...would you be surprised to know that scouts were used more widely? I mean roner and marauder dropped 20 bombs like nobodies business. I know you're angry and think this is all propaganda but seriously! B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4730	Posted - 2014.11.19 01:17:00 - [16] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Marauder and Roner ran plates and kincats; they didn't even bother with damps. Lol. Competitive shotgun scouts running under 500HP is news to me. That's OHK range if pitted against another shotgunner. Sounds like it'd be uncommon, but who knows? (I'll bet the data knows). If you're right, you're right. But right or wrong, we're still nerfing A in response to B. In what way would nerfing Scout Scans affect the potency of a lightly armored and dampened shotgun scout? He still sees what whoever's running recon sees. I mean...i dunno how you fit your fittings...but 500 isn't that hard to get to... 3 complex shield extenders 2 complex damps 1 complex kin kat proto cloak advanced RE adv shotty adv flaylock and i'm at 430 on a min scout...the squishiest of the 4. I could trade out the kin kat for a reactive and have 500. Gal scout exacerbates this...but caldari? 450 shields and like 90 armor with 2 damps on the lows. And YES...removing precision would do nothing to scouts when not lone wolfing it...unless passive's are not shared anymore...something I am DEEPLY a beleiver in. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4730	Posted - 2014.11.19 01:25:00 - [17] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Marauder and Roner ran plates and kincats; they didn't even bother with damps. Lol. Competitive shotgun scouts running under 500HP is news to me. That's OHK range if pitted against another shotgunner. Sounds like it'd be uncommon, but who knows? (I'll bet the data knows). If you're right, you're right. But right or wrong, we're still nerfing A in response to B. We point to the shotgun scout (whether lightly or heavily plated) as our basis for a nerf to Scout Scans. In what way would nerfing Scout Scans affect the potency of a shotgun scout? He runs damps (not scans) and he still sees what whoever's running recon sees. We nerfed the wrong guy. SMH...he posted that in the barbershop. If you need more proof I can go digging. He didn't plate stack. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.11.19 01:34:00 - [18] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Marauder and Roner ran plates and kincats; they didn't even bother with damps. Lol. Competitive shotgun scouts running under 500HP is news to me. That's OHK range if pitted against another shotgunner. Sounds like it'd be uncommon, but who knows? (I'll bet the data knows). If you're right, you're right. But right or wrong, we're still nerfing A in response to B. We point to the shotgun scout (whether lightly or heavily plated) as our basis for a nerf to Scout Scans. In what way would nerfing Scout Scans affect the potency of a shotgun scout? He runs damps (not scans) and he still sees what whoever's running recon sees. We nerfed the wrong guy. SMH...he posted that in the barbershop. If you need more proof I can go digging. He didn't plate stack. Right. Because Marauder ran basic gear in PC. I asked if you needed more. Here's Roner...looking for marauder. Edit: Found it! So he either ran 2 plates 2 repairers...or 1 plate 1 damp 2 repair. And he aimed for about 560 ehp. Sounds about like what the gal is pulling today. And the Cal right behind it...and the Min behind that. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4739	Posted - 2014.11.19 05:52:00 - [19] - Quote I need sleep. But atm I'm much more interested in cat mercs spreadsheet TBH. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DrCb0IiA3G3MjjnObKURzEQBl46sfzbtIOKN_4iJWdM/edit#gid=0 However...If we cannot get shared passive scanning removed...it's all for nought. All the e-war changes would simply be about rebalancing for dampening...as unless you're lone wolfing the meta will inevitably involve finding the best passive precision and putting a bunch of range mods on in and keep it on a catwalk or in the most secure place...and then everyone else's passive's matter none. Removing shared passive scanning is a must... B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4846	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:52:00 - [20] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I completely agree with Fox's statement. Zatara previously mentioned that, among other reasons, he liked the cloak because it gave players an active means of changing their scan profile. I believe that Fox's change would be the next best thing for other suits, allowing them to dynamically (On a suit-to-suit basis) change their scan profile. However, I do think that one addition needs to be made: We should have combat actions like shooting and sprinting increase your scanning profile and dot size, and passive actions like crouching or standing still decrease your scanning profile and dot size. I like the idea of a Heavy deceiving other players into thinking it is a medium suit by wearing dampeners. However, I would also like an Assault to deceive other players into thinking it was a heavy because it did actions to enlarge its dot size I have already broached this with CCP when this idea was presented. This was my first thought as well. The more ways you provide players to actively influence their profile, the better. But this only plays a factor if ultra passive scans are nerfed to have smaller ranges...or shared passive scanning killed. I have recently come to the knowledge what killing shared passive would be in terms of dev time...and am reconciled it's just NOT worth the time investment atm. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4846	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:53:00 - [21] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: This idea gained traction in another thread, so I am reposting here: What if the directional Arrow only displayed on the inner 25% short range circle? 100% in favor. Also 100% in favor. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4846	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:55:00 - [22] - Quote I still am very much in love with Cet Mercs brilliant work here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DrCb0IiA3G3MjjnObKURzEQBl46sfzbtIOKN_4iJWdM/edit#gid=0 Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4879	Posted - 2014.11.25 04:13:00 - [23] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: iWanderer wrote: [quote=Zatara Rought]I still am very much in love with Cet Mercs brilliant work here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DrCb0IiA3G3MjjnObKURzEQBl46sfzbtIOKN_4iJWdM/edit#gid=0[/quote I admit its interresting. Ive put the values in Haerrs sheet. There are problems, for example the pro max GalLogi sees all and thats not right for scouts. It should at least have a contestant in the same range. Thats why I use Haerrs, it covers all the possibilities. Here is Cat Mercs values in the sheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByLpG42z7QGHRFNvTmtTbFRRYmM/view?usp=sharing Later I-¦ll post a tweaked version. It sees all but 4x dampened Gallente Scout. This is a very specialized and unwieldy piece of equipment (Focused scanner), put on a suit that has no other reason to exist. If you don't use a scanner, you might as well use a different Logi suit. Hence it's fitting that getting under it is extremely hard. I also think for example that just because the gal scout is the only scout that could avoid such scans in the sheet does not mean that this won't further be influenced (hopefully) by other actions that scouts could take to reduce profile further...ex crouching. I'm not sure how I feel about it honestly. I agree the focused scanner on the gal logi suit...while being 14 PG...that's 5 seconds or so on 1/8 of the radius of the map. With the long cooldown time Even with 4 you can't keep "perma scans up" and even if you could keeping them up would be limited...again..by the 1/8th of the map you can see with the 45 degrees the focused covers. If it did prove to be OP i'd reduced it so that the min and amarr could be unscannable with 3 damps + proto cloak. But the focused does little beyond "keep the enemy honest" in it's current iteration. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4909	Posted - 2014.12.01 08:23:00 - [24] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Though I suppose we can thank Zatara for pushing the concept of "Scouts need to dedicate 4 low slots to use stealth" into the field. Yep. Bravo. I'm done. Someone let me know if Scouts are ever allowed to play instead of being better suited to being AFK while the rest of the team fights it out. misinformation. appia at her best. changes are a great place 2 start. i'd have preferred to nerf scan range a bit more so that you get more interplay of the various scan ranges n stuff (getting crazy precision at +25m imo should be limited to things like the 45 out of 360 degree 5 second snapshot 14 pg focused)...and lol scouts having the best precision, but pretty good elsewhere. great work cat merc. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4910	Posted - 2014.12.01 09:00:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: To allow counterplay - precision modules give an equal penalty to profile This is where I have issue with the whole thing. Scanning is still a far more powerful thing than dampening, since scanning not only reveals everyone around you, but also relays it to the squad, while dampening only hides a single unit. This is to make sure that the scanner is always visible. The hunter becomes the hunted. Take him down and blind the opponent. So sick. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4915	Posted - 2014.12.01 18:52:00 - [26] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Iggy We've entered ZataraLand, and in ZataraLand Scouts only get to hide. Kindly restructure your thinking to account for the new Scout role. Recon is for the Logi. When you return to Dust from Destiny, mind the new meta; Heavy+Logi blobs are already pretty bad, and it looks like they'll be getting a few upgrades. Lol crymoar. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4915	Posted - 2014.12.01 19:03:00 - [27] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: @ little sammy: You're right. total misinformation. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2173587#post2173587 On the precipice of alpha "The bonus's need to be 1 module difference, not 2, speaking of the cal and gal scout bonuses at the high end scanning." https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176785#post2176785 Gal Scout discussion thread, "This aside from making min scouts unscannable with 3 complex damps is the way to go. " https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176876#post2176876 "thus 3 damps by amarr and 3 damps (but perhaps a basic instead of the complex) by a gal are required to get under the min/maxing of a gal logi focused scanner. " https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2177170#post2177170 All you've done since is say how it's unfair how Detection doesn't overcome dampening. Has something changed during your tenure on the CPM? No, it hasn't. Total misinformation. P.S. It takes like all of 5 minutes to search the entirety of a post you want to find. There's nothing special or time consuming about it. I also love seeing al the "Focused Scanner has high fitting cost," in posts in this thread. For reference, dampening below it takes anywhere form 149 CPU and 18PG comprised of 2 low slots and an Equipment slot vs 1 EQ slot and only 29CPU and 14PG. Or for Min and Amarr it takes another 33 CPU and another low slot. Focused scanners have such a high fitting cost... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176876#post2176876 You basically went through the progression of clarification that happened because I was very tired from 12+ hours spent on that thread. I clarified the intent was for all scout to get under using 3 damps (not 4 lol appia misconstruing who'd have thought ) and gal get under usning 2 complex and a basic. (which the cloak provides no?) " Quote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2177170#post2177170 All you've done since is say how it's unfair how Detection doesn't overcome dampening. Has something changed during your tenure on the CPM? No, it hasn't. You used a quote sending me to a response that says nothing about how unfair it is that detection doesn't overcome dampening...it's simply not there..of course...who'd have thunk it. As I said...misinformation. Appia at her best. I do not think you should need 4 damps to beat scans as a scout. 3 is as the posts clarify...more than fine. In 1.7 it cost 4 complex damps of 5 total slots to beat focused. I suggest 3 of our now 6 slot scouts. Sounds about right to me. But meh, Appia's eisegesis sounds better if you like to create drama exnihilo. Rabblerouser, another to be ignored. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4915	Posted - 2014.12.01 19:14:00 - [28] - Quote as for the fitting cost of a scanner...it's 1/8 the map around you.....45 of 360 degrees. And 14 PG is 1/8 of your total fitting on the highest PG logi's. So much for the other 2-3 equip slots light weapon, nade, and 8 high/lows. I've already suggested cloaks need to have fitting reduced. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4915	Posted - 2014.12.01 19:32:00 - [29] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Iggy We've entered ZataraLand, and in ZataraLand Scouts only get to hide. Kindly restructure your thinking to account for the new Scout role. Recon is for the Logi. When you return to Dust from Destiny, mind the new meta; Heavy+Logi blobs are already pretty bad, and it looks like they'll be getting a few upgrades. Lol crymoar. ^ Behaving as expected. Congrats are in order. You've succeeded in changing the narrative from "assault lite is bad" to "ewar scouts are bad". Seriously doubt that the numbers support you, but great job on that anyway! mmmmmmm :tears: I love the credit for this, when I really shouldn't be blessed with it. But alas I am happy to be the center of your rage. It makes for some great reading. "zatara-land" and misquotes shall continue!!!! Let the good times roll! Continue peasant. I have yet more room in my bowels to gobble up your butthurt. Edit: The narrative of "assault lite was bad" is one ~~the scout community~~ barbershop would love to make, but is not what the data shows. Trying to eliminate assault lite's is not the panacea. Shotgun scouts with RE's were bad...and still are. But alas I didn't propose the idea for concentric circles...SMB did. I AM proposing that the max scan range in the game be like...35m. on the outermost concentric circle though..because reasons. But that's another conversation and the love i'm getting from the likes of you and appia is much more entertaining than engaging in meaningful conversation. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4919	Posted - 2014.12.01 19:58:00 - [30] - Quote Responding to trolls in kind is a sacred part of my duty/responsibility. If you would like to have a real conversation where a purpose other than a political agenda of inaccurate insinuations/assertions in an attempt to paint me as some crusader against a class I've vociferously defended is desired..then I'm very happy to listen. But alas appia and the like prefer the dramatic as opposed to the pragmatic...to the ire of people like myself and rattati. If flaming is the cornerstone of your posting, then enjoy the fruits of your efforts. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4919	Posted - 2014.12.01 20:58:00 - [31] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: If you would like to have a real conversation .... 1. What comes of the MN Scout's bonus if he can't backstab without being detected? Need to see how min scouts being detected at short ranges affects things. Personally I'd like to see the short range be like 8-10 meters max and even with all the range mods in the world they can only get the innermost circle to like 18m-20MAX...open to suggestions. But min can jump like 10 meters while charging knives at crazy fast speeds. And don't tell me about backpedaling...the min scout will walk right into you...ESPECIALLY if you're not an assault suit using nothing but ferroscale for low slot tank. 2. What comes of the AM/CA Scout PC Roles if the Logi is rendered superior at recon? I've said this elsewhere but scouts IMO should not be the meta of base starting precision and range. If the bonuses allow that scout role to basically negate that 'weakness' and allow it to basically convert it into a moderate (albeit not 'meta' strength vs a slow logi suit lighting up like a christmas tree with no EHP to boot!?) 3. How are Recon Scouts being role-bled by the Logi any different than Assaults being role-bled by Assault Lite? Assaults aren't being role bled by assault lite's...haven't since the changes to cloak dampening and rebalance to e-war to need 2 complex damps + cloak (non gal) to get under 'meta' scans...tanky scouts aren't a major issue...aside from maybe strafe speed/hitbox and the higher base starting e-war that gives it clear advantages over the assault. Assaults even if scouts are nerfed are not suddenly viable..they haven't been 'meta' since chrome...logi's > assault from 1.0-1.8 and now with heavies and scout the way they are assaults in the 'meta' simply serve no purpose...see Shiyou Hideyoshi and anyone who used to run slayer logi suits swapping to scouts...who needs more than 450 ehp against a non heavy when you can get 300-400 ehp off of them before they can locate you...if they do at all..and if they do locate you in time to have EVEN ehp with you...strafe battles with relative amounts of EHP vs scouts...you tell me who's going to win. 4. What specific measures will be taken to prevent Scout usage rates from skewing heavily toward GA Scouts? Umm..great question...aren't they already in the 'meta'? I only see 2 amarr scouts for scanning in PC max and then the rest run gal shotty or cal scouts with like CR and they aren't fitting it to be unscannable. 5. What specific numbers support the claim that EWAR Scouts are in fact problematic? Great question. I can't discuss this in detail because all the data because obvious reasons. Why are shotgun gal scouts the most prevalent thing spammed in PC aside from heavies per Rattati's numbers? In a battle between a 500 ehp scout and a 850-900 ehp assault why does the scout win 1v1's with rifles the vast majority of the time on not open ground? E-war is a potential explanation. Strafing is another. First shot advantage is HUGE. And the time it takes to locate an enemy in dust can be fatally long. If when you started shooting it increased your profile and your enemy lit up like James Franco in Pineapple Express...then maybe it'd be different..I don't pretend to know for a surety. And great conversations about this should be had...one problem is that I don't see you (and other individuals like you) seeking out proactively to identify from players outside your clique what the problems of scouts are (lol sorry it's not as simple as "assault lite's") and having lively and constructive debates where you're offering solutions to the consensus problems plaguing scouts. 6. How will the proposed changes not make more prolific and problematic the Heavy+Logi blob? That needs to be nerfed quick fast and in a hurry. And if you'd like to help me I think it'd be VERY pertinent to be making the forums ring with the fact that Heavies are ***** OP and that heavy blobs (logi's are just a side benefit) are inexcusably difficult to deal with. And things like "ob them" are not an acceptable answer. 7. How will the proposed changes encourage use of dampeners among MedFrames? Well, watching the meta unfold in PC from these changes will be interesting...I keep saying this but because passive scans can't feasibly be removed...scan ranges need to be nerfed dramatically. The innermost circle on a heavy nets you 5m...8-10 for logi's/scouts/assaults. Min maxing with 5 range amps should IMO give you a max innermost concentric circle of like 15-18m 20 just sounds high...and the MAX passive scan range i'd like to see would be like 35m. The lower the min max scan ranges...the less passive scans are efficacious and the more people will need to rely on their own e-war situaiton...and not just min max dampening or saying it because a cal/amarr scout scans them 40m out regardless. 8. If "360 wallhack scans" are a balance problem, why are we adding to the number of units who can do it? because if you can't make it so no one can do it...then make it so everyone can do it. I don't know how giving only one class something that's OP makes sense...But that's not really my argument...just general logic in this particular response. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution** Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4919	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:00:00 - [32] - Quote Oh btw shotty, this is much more constructive. Thank you! Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4921	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:23:00 - [33] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: please keep the childish bickering to a minimum. Some issues with the current proposal I see are: dampeners are still worthless for medium frames in a competitive environment minmatar and amarr scouts can be scanned in close range no matter what they do many suits can have high precision, range, and hp all at once Suggestions: Cloak bonus increased Passive scans only show on minimap, no chevrons above enemies medium frame profile reduced further range amps in high slots I do think dampening for medium frames needs a buff. Can you provide specific examples of the best combo's of ehp/range, and precision...and what it would take to beat them from a few suits? I would love to see range amps in high slots. and codebreakers! I'd love to see no chevrons over enemies heads from passive scans...should be a minimap thing, not the actual screen...it's no damn dumb. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4921	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:35:00 - [34] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Oh btw shotty, this is much more constructive. Thank you! LOL That's not Shotty. Thank you. PS: A backpedaling MN Assault is being pursued by MN Scout walking forward. Each second the MN Scout survives, he gains 0.35 meters on the Assault. Closing a gap of 5 meters would require roughly 14 seconds. Assuming the MN Assault is out of ammo, how might this chase pan out if it is being broadcasted to TacNet? Why did the min scout not sprint until close and then knife? why are you walking from 5 meters out? Here's my fun filled example: Quote: A heavy fires his HMG at a RR wielding assault while sprinting at the assault 60 meters out. [insert math about how long it would take for the heavy to get to assault] assuming the RR user is out of ammo and get stuck in the map...how long before the heavy catches and kills the assault? How many bullets from 60m out would he have fired before the kill taking into account overheat mechanics and dispersion changes while he closed the distance? Why did he not take the lav? Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4921	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:43:00 - [35] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: please keep the childish bickering to a minimum. Some issues with the current proposal I see are: dampeners are still worthless for medium frames in a competitive environment minmatar and amarr scouts can be scanned in close range no matter what they do many suits can have high precision, range, and hp all at once Suggestions: Cloak bonus increased Passive scans only show on minimap, no chevrons above enemies medium frame profile reduced further range amps in high slots I do think dampening for medium frames needs a buff. Can you provide specific examples of the best combo's of ehp/range, and precision...and what it would take to beat them from a few suits? I would love to see range amps in high slots. and codebreakers! I'd love to see no chevrons over enemies heads from passive scans...should be a minimap thing, not the actual screen...it's no damn dumb. amarr scout 2 precision 2 range 2 complex armor plates Only the gallente scout can evade scans in close range. To do this it needs a minimum of 3 complex dampeners Yeah...as I've said elsewhere I've suggested that scan range be nerfed significantly. 2 complex plates is like 300 ehp + what 200 ehp base? 500 ehp is not a super high ehp suit. it's decent..and it's enough to slay, but it's not "high ehp" Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4921	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:16:00 - [36] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: What I disagree with are Logis sharing passive scans at 18dB from 15m to 40m. This shuts down CQC play for MN/AM Scouts, replaces the AM Scout with an embedded recon unit which generates constant and massive WP, and this upgrades Heavy+Logi blobs to near omniscience. There is no way that this is good for balance. THIS is where we agree completely. Hence why passive scan ranges being nerfed is a huge priority now. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:18:00 - [37] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Except both the logi and the shortscan assault won't pick up the scout unless he's not dampened at all. If you're not investing at all in any dampening, it shouldn't take significant investment to pick you up on scan. The Minscout is less of a problem than, say, a Galscout who doesn't dampen because he already has a bonus for it. Shifting the bonus to module efficacy and then tweaking EWAR values so that undampened scouts can be picked up without massive difficulty means that you don't end up with scouts who eschew dampening except in a small handful of situations but have fitted a load of other mods without sacrificing EWAR security. Inherent scout EWAR supremacy should not be so strong without fitting any mods. There are few problems with scouts fitted for EWAR being good at EWAR. EDIT: Additionally, EWAR should be accessible to suits other than scouts. And HP should be accessible to suits other than heavies. That doesn't mean that Light and Medium frames should be near to on par with Heavies. This game so far is EWAR vs HP. Right now, HP is winning. These changes are complex. The greater the complexity, the greater the chance for errors and massive problems. If done incorrectly, these changes will negate entire roles. That could be Assaults, it could be scouts. I'm sorry, but so far...min maxing HP (heavies) AND e-war (scouts) are winning. Fact is shotgun scouts are quite deadly to heavies and an iwin button to everything else aside from rooftop campers if you don't have an uplink..and the only place they aren't is blobs, which is when re's are more useful. But do not mistake it. The data affirms in competitive meta...the scout is the most useful/versatile suit...the heavy suit is good for blobbing. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:20:00 - [38] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: 500 hp is a lot when you and your squad can literally see everyone. Only if the enemy squad your'e facing CAN'T literally see everyone also. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:09:00 - [39] - Quote In 1.7 I ran 2 or 3 complex damps on my logi suits. Very few Scouts don't run 2 tank modules. And currently...as I said..the numbers are quite clear that unless facing a BLOB of heavies...a single operant scout is the most deadly suit in the game...with 3 complex shield extenders a min scout hits 430 EHP with innates. amarr scout hits like close to 600 with 3 complex reactive. And their lack of EHP has proven through the numbers to not be an effective 'con' hence why average players in PC with a damped scout suit with 300 ehp will do way better than a great player with a 900 ehp assault suit. It's nottanked 750 ehp assault lite's...that is a misnomer because assault lite's get scanned. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:35:00 - [40] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: In 1.7 I ran 2 or 3 complex damps on my logi suits. Very few Scouts don't run 2 tank modules. And currently...as I said..the numbers are quite clear that unless facing a BLOB of heavies...a single operant scout is the most deadly suit in the game...with 3 complex shield extenders a min scout hits 430 EHP with innates. amarr scout hits like close to 600 with 3 complex reactive. And their lack of EHP has proven through the numbers to not be an effective 'con' hence why average players in PC with a damped scout suit with 300 ehp will do way better than a great player with a 900 ehp assault suit. It's nottanked 750 ehp assault lite's...that is a misnomer because assault lite's get scanned. How to Fix: 1. Rewire Scout bonuses to efficacy. 2. Add meaningful drawbacks to Armor Plates; the lighter the unit, the steeper the drawback. 3. Reduce HP payout of all Armor Plate types (including Ferro and Reactive). 4. Remedy fire-from-cloak and maintain decloak requirement in advance of attack. What Happens: King HP - Brick pays slightly less utility to non-Scouts, making slightly more attractive other low-slot module types. GalScout - Now needs two damps to accomplish what he could previously accomplish with one. Will opt for ferroscale or reactive plates to avoid penalty. Average HP per unit declines. Odds of successful takedown and escape decline. CalScout - Now needs two damps to accomplish what he could previously accomplish with one. Must choose between strength at Scan Range or strength at Scan Profile. Will always opt for Assault over opting to run plates. Average HP per unit declines. Odds of successful takedown and escape decline. MN Scout - No change. None needed. AM Scout - No change in highs. Greater incentive to run range or biotics in lows. Average HP per unit declines. Odds of successful takedown and escape decline. facepalm you miss the point on the plates. Fixing fire from cloak has been worked on since forever...i'm not optimistic about it being fixed. And until it's got a 2-3 second delay to fire, and a delay after firing or sprinting to recloak...i'm skeptical it'll be efficacious. This is why i have said scouts should share the best scan range, and give up the best base starting precision. I'd even be fine if scouts got like 0db passive scans for 5-8meters...just flat out at all times....no way to increase it..their middle circle would be like 50db :P then scouts are ***** amazing and hold the meta...but in practicality people would still use logi's for range and assault for great precision at decent range... just a thought i'm just spitballing. then cal get's extra range (let's say like 150% of regular range) and amarr scouts get a different bonus altogether. open to suggestions. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution** Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:42:00 - [41] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Except both the logi and the shortscan assault won't pick up the scout unless he's not dampened at all. If you're not investing at all in any dampening, it shouldn't take significant investment to pick you up on scan. The Minscout is less of a problem than, say, a Galscout who doesn't dampen because he already has a bonus for it. Shifting the bonus to module efficacy and then tweaking EWAR values so that undampened scouts can be picked up without massive difficulty means that you don't end up with scouts who eschew dampening except in a small handful of situations but have fitted a load of other mods without sacrificing EWAR security. Inherent scout EWAR supremacy should not be so strong without fitting any mods. There are few problems with scouts fitted for EWAR being good at EWAR. EDIT: Additionally, EWAR should be accessible to suits other than scouts. And HP should be accessible to suits other than heavies. That doesn't mean that Light and Medium frames should be near to on par with Heavies. This game so far is EWAR vs HP. Right now, HP is winning. These changes are complex. The greater the complexity, the greater the chance for errors and massive problems. If done incorrectly, these changes will negate entire roles. That could be Assaults, it could be scouts. I'm sorry, but so far...min maxing HP (heavies) AND e-war (scouts) are winning. Fact is shotgun scouts are quite deadly to heavies and an iwin button to everything else aside from rooftop campers if you don't have an uplink..and the only place they aren't is blobs, which is when re's are more useful. But do not mistake it. The data affirms in competitive meta...the scout is the most useful/versatile suit...the heavy suit is good for blobbing. The data that Rattati showed from PC had the top 2 spots going to heavies, with Gal Scout in 3rd. What about the other scouts? Rattati says Cal scouts are OP, and I believe him (but to my mind that has more to do with straffing, which is broken for everyone, not just Caldari Scouts). I would love to see a more comprehensive list. Not to mention that a lot of what makes the Gal Scout so HP/EWAR versatile is the passive vs module efficacy bonus, which I would have loved to have seen implimented before the EWAR rings. I do not argue that there are problems. I do not even always argue that they are different problems (though if you tell me Minmatar are OP you better show me some data to back such an insane idea). What I argue is that the "fixes" are not fixing the real problems, and are further creating imbalances rather than reducing them. min is the only one -not- OP because it seves no purpose in the meta. Amarr scouts are used to keep the enemy honest...anyone not running adequate damps get killed. Cal are used because cal scouts are OP in 1v1's with rifles, but they also light the entire cities worth of enemy equips...and thus because you see the equips being dropped, you know all the places where the enemy is (as they are getting placed) and the direction of enemy advance. Gal scouts (duh). Heavies are the blobs of ** getting killed the most...and I believe it...they are the meat grinding suit. The numbers he released were about what was killed the most in PC right? i expect respecs will have allowed more people to react to amarr scouts being the meta of passive scanning. But yeah...after HMG's...and 2 types of shotties...are among the top 3 or 4 weapons used in PC. there was 2 rifles used on the top 10 list...ACR and RR (which has since been nerfed out of the meta aside from rooftop camping...it may get replaced by the ARR we'll see). Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution** Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:45:00 - [42] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: facepalm you miss the point on the plates. 99.9% of low slot sales are brick-related. My point is that there's a problem with comparative utility of plates. And with respect, I do not accept your claim that 300HP Scouts slay in PC. refute all you like. lol. where did I say 300 ehp scouts slay? quite the stretch there..almost a misquote. 450-550ehp shotgun scouts are the most dominant fits in PC. Heavies are only better when spammed in blobs. And you can get 500 ehp EASY on all but the min while being completely damped. we've done this before. min scout with 3 extenders (they have more PG than my cal assault FFS) gets 430 ehp. cal get's 530 with 4 extenders. gal lol amarr get's like 600 while being fully damped. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:25:00 - [43] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: And their lack of EHP has proven through the numbers to not be an effective 'con' hence why average players in PC with a damped scout suit with 300 ehp will do way better than a great player with a 900 ehp assault suit. It's nottanked 750 ehp assault lite's...that is a misnomer because assault lite's get scanned. By "non-tanked", do you mean GalScouts running two dampeners, right? There's a big spread between 300 and 750, with an optimal value just above one shotgun blast (~500HP, favoring armor). GalScouts happen to work best, since they hit the optimal HP while running at lowest profile. Add penalties to Armor, and you limit the GalScout's flexible 3rd and 4th slot options from Plate+Plate or Plate+Biotic to Ferro or Reactive. Average HP declines. Edit: There's an extremely good chance that fixing Heavy blobs will reduce demand for Shotgun Scouts in PC. Yup thought so...misquote. scouts with 300 ehp > better than shittier player skill with 900 =/= 300 ehp scouts slay in PC. Sure, 300 ehp scouts do slay, but it's like the frost kitties who run 2 damps 2 kin kats and 2 extenders on their gal scouts...and i think frost still gets a little more than 300. The norm is 500 ehp fully damped. Non tanked means this...not bricked scouts who don't run damps...ex cal scout using 1-2 plates getting that 530 + another 70 each from reactives..or 150 form a regular complex plate. Or an amarr which obviously can get it's awesome scans and just give up the idea of dampening and use 4 lows to get MORE tank than the gal scout. Or the min can abandon dampening and get 450 ehp on top of it's 430 (with 3 complex extenders) with 3 complex plates. those are lite assaults...and very few run them. three scouts hit 500 ehp as previously shown while being completely damped. the min get's 430 ehp with 3 damps. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:32:00 - [44] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: If Logis are going to get Scout-like Scan Precision and Range, do you think AM/CA Scouts might get 4EQ? Or would that second part be too much like role bleed? If a role is OP and you remove one of it's benefits and give it to another to one that is UP like logi's...and they both become balanced as a result...awesome! Why then would you need to buff them if they are balanced? just make changes that make their bonus worthy but not OP like 4 equip slot scouts. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.02 01:58:00 - [45] - Quote Spademan wrote: Zat, I'm not sure these are "misquotes" as you so often tout as much as they might be misunderstandings. You did say that, that's not a misquote. That implies malicious intent. Just a thought. Said what...what on earth are you referring to? That he said I stated 300 ehp scouts could slay? He did NOT find a quote that stated that. He misinterpreted a different quote...there is a distinct difference. lmao please don't argue this. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4922	Posted - 2014.12.02 02:02:00 - [46] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: lol 343 shields on a Minmatar scout. I can barely get over 289 while maintaining a decent fit with the tools I need to succeed. My typical PC slaying fit only runs 289/87. Just run a single kincat and damps. moar misinterpretations. with 3 complex extenders you get 340 shields + 90 armor =....tada 430 total ehp. Never said 430 shields alone. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4926	Posted - 2014.12.02 06:12:00 - [47] - Quote Ive already alerted Rattati that if there is a delay for passive scans being shown then it needs fixed or the scan ranges changed to compensate. Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what

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