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CPM input request: Assault Bonuses

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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3349	Posted - 2014.10.19 22:37:00 - [1] - Quote I have for quite some time now been hearing that while the Amarr and Minmitar racial bonuses are useful the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are a bit lack luster. As such input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Gal and Cal racial bonuses, and how to polish the experience and utility of same. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
hfderrtgvcd 881	Posted - 2014.10.19 22:43:00 - [2] - Quote caldari: 10% reduction to charge time per level gallente: 5% reduction to damage fall off You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 143	Posted - 2014.10.19 23:09:00 - [3] - Quote Gallente Assault, but I play mostly Minmitard no cloak side arms scout. I would really like to see a synergy bonus on assault/commando suits for the suits racial weapons so we can use our bonuses on both of our weapons without the damage loss from not having opposing damage profiles. Of course if you are using a RR or CR you don't have to worry about reload or weapon swap because your effective dmg is high enough to kill some one easily with out it; also the reason the reload buff is useless to them. As for Gallente alone I would like to see the current buff increased because while it makes a small difference It is still a difference in effective damage. If you guys wanted to ad something in addition being able to reload while running would be nice to help us close the distance with our inferior range and clip size. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 406	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:01:00 - [4] - Quote Role: caldari/gal assault Caldari bonus: 2% reduction to kick feed back per level for hybrid ( rail) weaponry, 5% reduction to charge up time per level for hybrid (rail) weaponry. Gal bonus: 2% rate of fire increase per level hybrid (blaster) weaponry, 5% reduction to fall off damage per level for hybrid (blaster) weaponry. Or something like that. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
hfderrtgvcd 889	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:04:00 - [5] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Role: caldari/gal assault Caldari bonus: 2% reduction to kick feed back per level for hybrid ( rail) weaponry, 5% reduction to charge up time per level for hybrid (rail) weaponry. Gal bonus: 2% rate of fire increase per level hybrid (blaster) weaponry, 5% reduction to fall off damage per level for hybrid (blaster) weaponry. Or something like that. would be overpowered You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5513	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:05:00 - [6] - Quote The Gallente bonus is good it just needs to be increased in how much it tightens your hipfire. The Caldari bonus is really cool, but I think it's a bit lack luster until you really max it out in combination with maxing out the reload bonus of the weapon you're using. The AV creed, "We don't do it because it's easy; we do it because it's hard!"
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 406	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:08:00 - [7] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: Role: caldari/gal assault Caldari bonus: 2% reduction to kick feed back per level for hybrid ( rail) weaponry, 5% reduction to charge up time per level for hybrid (rail) weaponry. Gal bonus: 2% rate of fire increase per level hybrid (blaster) weaponry, 5% reduction to fall off damage per level for hybrid (blaster) weaponry. Or something like that. would be overpowered The combat rifle already does an excellent job of being over powered so bring the assault rifle to a closer level to it won't matter to much. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5513	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:10:00 - [8] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: Role: caldari/gal assault Caldari bonus: 2% reduction to kick feed back per level for hybrid ( rail) weaponry, 5% reduction to charge up time per level for hybrid (rail) weaponry. Gal bonus: 2% rate of fire increase per level hybrid (blaster) weaponry, 5% reduction to fall off damage per level for hybrid (blaster) weaponry. Or something like that. would be overpowered Yep, unless the recoil unhindered in which case the bonus would also make attempting long range fights impossible and the range increase completely useless. The AV creed, "We don't do it because it's easy; we do it because it's hard!"
hfderrtgvcd 890	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:12:00 - [9] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: Role: caldari/gal assault Caldari bonus: 2% reduction to kick feed back per level for hybrid ( rail) weaponry, 5% reduction to charge up time per level for hybrid (rail) weaponry. Gal bonus: 2% rate of fire increase per level hybrid (blaster) weaponry, 5% reduction to fall off damage per level for hybrid (blaster) weaponry. Or something like that. would be overpowered The combat rifle already does an excellent job of being over powered so bring the assault rifle to a closer level to it won't matter to much. before the hot fixes I would agree with you. Now the assault rifle is better in almost every way. More dps, more balanced damage profile, more damage per clip all for a very small range difference. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 191	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:18:00 - [10] - Quote If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 406	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:25:00 - [11] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: Role: caldari/gal assault Caldari bonus: 2% reduction to kick feed back per level for hybrid ( rail) weaponry, 5% reduction to charge up time per level for hybrid (rail) weaponry. Gal bonus: 2% rate of fire increase per level hybrid (blaster) weaponry, 5% reduction to fall off damage per level for hybrid (blaster) weaponry. Or something like that. would be overpowered The combat rifle already does an excellent job of being over powered so bring the assault rifle to a closer level to it won't matter to much. before the hot fixes I would agree with you. Now the assault rifle is better in almost every way. More dps, more balanced damage profile, more damage per clip all for a very small range difference. I suppose it comes down to player skill then as I personally find the combat rifle still a monster to use. Maybe a 1% percent increase per level is more reasonable or is there a better suggestion? Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 406	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:28:00 - [12] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. I believe the point of this thread is to replace the current bonuses for the suits not to add to it. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1969	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:31:00 - [13] - Quote Caldari assault: 5% recoil reduction to hybrid - rail weaponry per level. I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1707	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:35:00 - [14] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: caldari: 10% reduction to charge time per level gallente: 5% reduction to damage fall off So much this for the caldari For the gallente I'd keep the bonu but raise it to 10% per level. Edit: my main role is as a minmatar scout, but I have min assault, amarr assault and gal assault. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 191	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:42:00 - [15] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. I believe the point of this thread is to replace the current bonuses for the suits not to add to it. You have to read closely on what I said. This is what I am saying. Remove its current damage of each tiered assault gun for the gallante and the range for the caldari rail rifle from its variants. Then now if you only have these suits equipped you will get the full bonus/how the gun operates as it does currently. Thus far Gallente Assault dropsuit have a % reduction to hybrid and side arm dispersion. Caldari assault suits have reload speed to hybrid light and side arms. These are fine if these remain, but they do not need anything stacked upon what is already there. Though making the weapons work to their peak ability only through the assault suit it favors really makes it ideal to use different suits etc. rather than a tanked armor suit with the weapon of your choice. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 249	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:51:00 - [16] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. I believe the point of this thread is to replace the current bonuses for the suits not to add to it. You have to read closely on what I said. This is what I am saying. Remove its current damage of each tiered assault gun for the gallante and the range for the caldari rail rifle from its variants. Then now if you only have these suits equipped you will get the full bonus/how the gun operates as it does currently. Thus far Gallente Assault dropsuit have a % reduction to hybrid and side arm dispersion. Caldari assault suits have reload speed to hybrid light and side arms. These are fine if these remain, but they do not need anything stacked upon what is already there. Though making the weapons work to their peak ability only through the assault suit it favors really makes it ideal to use different suits etc. rather than a tanked armor suit with the weapon of your choice. I've wanted this done for some time it nerf the performance of the rifles on all suits but keeps performance when used on assault just like the amar...sure you can use amar rifle weapons in any suit .but they perform best on amar assaults. But it'll never happen. To many rr scouts and heavies would QQ if the other assault rifles only maintained Thier current power on the suit they were meant for.. But it's the obvious solution to assaults and fixes allot if things with scouts as well it effectively nerf every rifle user other than assaults no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 249	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:53:00 - [17] - Quote Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
hfderrtgvcd 891	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:54:00 - [18] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just **** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 249	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:58:00 - [19] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just **** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit No would nerf they're gun on most suits and give they're assault a clear benefit and purpose just like scr on amar or lr on amar no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 191	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:58:00 - [20] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. I believe the point of this thread is to replace the current bonuses for the suits not to add to it. You have to read closely on what I said. This is what I am saying. Remove its current damage of each tiered assault gun for the gallante and the range for the caldari rail rifle from its variants. Then now if you only have these suits equipped you will get the full bonus/how the gun operates as it does currently. Thus far Gallente Assault dropsuit have a % reduction to hybrid and side arm dispersion. Caldari assault suits have reload speed to hybrid light and side arms. These are fine if these remain, but they do not need anything stacked upon what is already there. Though making the weapons work to their peak ability only through the assault suit it favors really makes it ideal to use different suits etc. rather than a tanked armor suit with the weapon of your choice. I've wanted this done for some time it nerf the performance of the rifles on all suits but keeps performance when used on assault just like the amar...sure you can use amar rifle weapons in any suit .but they perform best on amar assaults. But it'll never happen. To many rr scouts and heavies would QQ if the other assault rifles only maintained Thier current power on the suit they were meant for.. But it's the obvious solution to assaults and fixes allot if things with scouts as well it effectively nerf every rifle user other than assaults You are not the only person who has been on their soap box repeating this on the forums like a broken record. I have been saying this back when the Amarr medium suits were first introduced and that goes for several others. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 193	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:02:00 - [21] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just ** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit It's not "nerfing" it to the assault suit user to where the weapon originates. It only makes it less effective when placed in the hands of other users. That is how it is done in eve. Missiles are better done on Caldari ships to the rest. Sure other ships can use them but only the Caldari can bring them to their max potential and the same goes for all the other different types. Always Grey Skies** Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 250	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:11:00 - [22] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just **** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit It's not "nerfing" it to the assault suit user to where the weapon originates. It only makes it less effective when placed in the hands of other users. That is how it is done in eve. Missiles are better done on Caldari ships to the rest. Sure other ships can use them but only the Caldari can bring them to their max potential and the same goes for all the other different types. Exactly no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Vicious Minotaur 1243	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:23:00 - [23] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just **** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit It's not "nerfing" it to the assault suit user to where the weapon originates. It only makes it less effective when placed in the hands of other users. That is how it is done in eve. Missiles are better done on Caldari ships to the rest. Sure other ships can use them but only the Caldari can bring them to their max potential and the same goes for all the other different types. So... nerf the RR and AR... and give their respective racial assault suits a bonus to return the RR and AR to the effectiveness that they were at before? So the nerf is negated? That is a nerf. There is no way around it. The Caldari, for example, would retain its current effectiveness with the RR (because the Cal assault bonus "negates" the RR nerf), AND it would lose its reload time, which is a nerf. The net effect of that is that the Caldari Assault is nerfed. Yeah. With that, you nerf every suit using the RR AND the Caldari Assault. Genius way to buff a suit, if you ask me. I am a minotaur.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 250	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:26:00 - [24] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just **** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit It's not "nerfing" it to the assault suit user to where the weapon originates. It only makes it less effective when placed in the hands of other users. That is how it is done in eve. Missiles are better done on Caldari ships to the rest. Sure other ships can use them but only the Caldari can bring them to their max potential and the same goes for all the other different types. So... nerf the RR and AR... and give their respective racial assault suits a bonus to return the RR and AR to the effectiveness that they were at before? So the nerf is negated? That is a nerf. There is no way around it. The Caldari, for example, would retain its current effectiveness with the RR (because the Cal assault bonus "negates" the RR nerf), AND it would lose its reload time, which is a nerf. The net effect of that is that the Caldari Assault is nerfed. Yeah. With that, you nerf every suit using the RR AND the Caldari Assault. Genius way to buff a suit, if you ask me. No you nerf every suit using rr except the caldari assault which doubly buffs the assault as now it's gun is supreme for it alone. Anyone using a scr or lr bumps into an amar assault using that same gun. They ate automatically disadvantaged by the amar assault. This would buff the cal assault because it would make it king of the rr ..just like amar assault is king of laser weapons no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Vicious Minotaur 1244	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:55:00 - [25] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Like if they increased rr charge time then gave cal assault a bonus that negated that increase wouldnt that just **** of gallente and caldari assault users since you're basically nerfing their suit ... ... No you nerf every suit using rr except the caldari assault which doubly buffs the assault as now it's gun is supreme for it alone. Anyone using a scr or lr bumps into an amar assault using that same gun. They ate automatically disadvantaged by the amar assault. This would buff the cal assault because it would make it king of the rr ..just like amar assault is king of laser weapons So... Make the Caldari assault better by nerfing everything BUT it? So my suit feels the EXACT same way post-buff as it did pre-buff? Everybody else just gets to feel worse? That's the benefit? Make the Caldari RR King by knocking everybody else down a few pegs. I say, as someone with a caldari purist accout: NO thank you. I suppose I can only hope the CPM and CCP agree with me, and find a way to buff the Cal (&Gal) Assault in and of itself. I am a minotaur.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3255	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:26:00 - [26] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yXlLV5PEJcP6jtx1hjTlf2hBBVNycJpgrJmSxDPRaQk/edit?usp=sharing Some of this is a bit of a grey area/fuzzy/opinion, but food for thought. We want to make sure that bonuses affect as many weapons as possible within that race's selection. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 251	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:42:00 - [27] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yXlLV5PEJcP6jtx1hjTlf2hBBVNycJpgrJmSxDPRaQk/edit?usp=sharing Some of this is a bit of a grey area/fuzzy/opinion, but food for thought. We want to make sure that bonuses affect as many weapons as possible within that race's selection. Magazine size not super helpful on lr At least with the amar assault it only effects the amar rifles performance abilities not the sidearms..Although if they ever made an amar smg that would benefit from the assaults heat bonus as well :) no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3255	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:55:00 - [28] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yXlLV5PEJcP6jtx1hjTlf2hBBVNycJpgrJmSxDPRaQk/edit?usp=sharing Some of this is a bit of a grey area/fuzzy/opinion, but food for thought. We want to make sure that bonuses affect as many weapons as possible within that race's selection. Magazine size not super helpful on lr At least with the amar assault it only effects the amar rifles performance abilities not the sidearms..Although if they ever made an amar smg that would benefit from the assaults heat bonus as well :) Fair point, updated. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 226	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:06:00 - [29] - Quote Primary Role: Proto Gal Scout Secondary Role: Advanced Gal Assault Primary Context: 'Exile' Assault Rifle & Gek-38 Assault Rifle I actually like the current Gal Assault bonus. If anything, please keep the current bonus and add on another bonus in addition. With the current bonus, my AR hits a lot harder in CQC when I'm engaged with an enemy. There's a noticeable difference in my damage output when I duke it out with Sentinel when I'm using my Assault suit than my Scout, Logi, or even Commando. Sometimes I use a Shotgun and it feels like that weapons hit harder too, but most of the time I'm plagued with an oversensitive controller (even at minimum) and miss all my shots or bad hit detection. I haven't really noticed a difference with the Ion Pistol because the controller is too sensitive for me hip fire and I end up missing all my shots anyway. Not sure the bonus does anything to help the Plasma Cannon... Regardless, please keep the current Gal Assault bonus, even if you're going to add another one to complement the current, apparently lackluster, bonus. Lovin' daddy Rattati! CCP Ankou s+êTà+ bro!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8038	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:36:00 - [30] - Quote Gallente Assault (duh :p ) I feel that a Range bonus to Hybrid Plasma would be the best way to solve this issue. I've been debating between the RoF bonus and Range bonus for quite some time but I finally decided to go with the Range. We could increase range in three ways: A). Give a slight bonus to both Falloff range and Optimal Range B). Give a nice bonus to Falloff Range C). Give a nice bonus to Optimal Range *(My personal Favorite)* Any of those three I'd be happy with. No matter how much you hear random blueberries saying the bonus is useful they are falling victim to the placebo effect and a majority of the time they are in NPC corps. Do not listen to these guys, I've never met another primary Gallente Assault (that's actually good) that said the bonus was good like the Amarr and Minmatar. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1970	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:42:00 - [31] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Gallente Assault (duh :p ) I feel that a Range bonus to Hybrid Plasma would be the best way to solve this issue. I've been debating between the RoF bonus and Range bonus for quite some time but I finally decided to go with the Range. We could increase range in three ways: A). Give a slight bonus to both Falloff range and Optimal Range B). Give a nice bonus to Falloff Range C). Give a nice bonus to Optimal Range *(My personal Favorite)* Any of those three I'd be happy with. No matter how much you hear random blueberries saying the bonus is useful they are falling victim to the placebo effect and a majority of the time they are in NPC corps. Do not listen to these guys, I've never met another primary Gallente Assault (that's actually good) that said the bonus was good like the Amarr and Minmatar. Caldari Assault user. But increasing optimal range, like the old sharpshooter skill, was removed for being OP, was it not? Not that I'm against it, but we do need to avoid making the next FOTM if possible. I think option A you suggested would be a good balance. Say 3% per level. Gives a healthy boost to both. The weakness is range and assaults are all about shoring up the weaknesses of their rifles, but again, wasn't range increases through skills removed for a reason? I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
CamClarke KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:55:00 - [32] - Quote I've heard this repeated many times: Just swap the Cal and Gal bonuses. RR users have a hard time staying on target at range with sustained fire due to the kick, often having to limit themselves to 6-8 round bursts to maintain accuracy at anything over 60 meters, having to charge .3 seconds every time. AR chews ammo almost as fast as the CR/ACR, and must reload often. Accuracy is never an issue, as feathering eliminates kick. Kick is virtually nonexistent on the AR to begin with, unless all you do is magdump every time you see a red dot. This reload should also be faster than the Commando reload. Both are currently 5% per level. If not, then you might as well make the Commando and Assault bonuses fully redundant and give them the damage bonus as well.
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 87	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:57:00 - [33] - Quote Very disappointed to hear that range is "off the table". It frustrates me that the Amarr and Minmatar have a bonus that is very clearly in their huge favor, addressing the weakness of their guns, while the weakness of the Gallente's guns cannot be addressed due to it apparently "disrupting balance". So, I'm going to argue FOR it here, and still provide you with some alternatives regardless. Seeing it from your point of view, I can understand where you come from. The gun does have the largest damage per clip when compared to the other racial types (breach to rail, etc), so bringing this damage to a longer range would be pretty scary. Also, I assume you've taken the other variants into account as well, which, admittingly, could lead to problems regarding the TAC version. What's more, the bonus would extend to Shotguns and Plasma Cannons, our other two guns. But let's be honest, is that 1-2 extra meters on the shotgun really going to help you? Plasma Cannons I can see receiving a large advantage, but Shotguns? The problem with this, then, lies with the Rifle. Here's the problem though, the other racial variants would still have a large advantage over our plasma based variants. Let's look at the Tactical Variant: The Scrambler has a higher clip, larger damage to shields, and a highly damaging charge shot, all while still having a larger optimal range than the Gallente variant. Coupled with the Amarr Assault bonus, you can get a lot of shots off in a short amount of time, at a much longer range. A range increase would shorten the gap, not enough to overshadow the ScR. Regarding the Burst and Breach variants: The combat Rifle will always have an edge over our burst. The Combat Rifle gets a much faster rof between bursts, is dead accurate, and, once again, has a farther range. Let's not forget the +15% dmg to armor profile. The advantage the Rail Rifle has over the Breach is obvious: range, damage, and the profile. Again, increasing the range of the plasma variants will not overshadow either of these two guns in their effectiveness, especially considering the Minmatar bonus brings the clip to 80, 20 over the plasma variant. As for the Assault variant: Once again, the weakness is range. The gun has the largest damage per clip of the Assault variants, so their's one edge. Also, the gun has low kick and is relatively accurate compared to the others. Overall, this version is better than the others. Let's also not forget the the guns the other races have either. The heat reduction can keep a Laser Rifle shooting for seconds more, all the while hitting at it's max damage. The Mass Driver gets another shot or two (not sure how that 1.5 rounds to) for suppression and large splash damage. Now, I have not addressed the fact that, apparently, plasma variants have large dispersion, so much so, that this dispersion is to be considered a "weakness" of the Plasma Rifle variants. And the reason why is because, as it is supposed to be a "short-lowmid" range weapon, why should I worry about my shots going a bit off if I should be engaging my target at such a close range? I shouldn't, especially when there is a skill dedicated to decreasing that dispersion already that anyone can obtain, regardless of suit (Sharpshooter). Something that neither the Amarr nor Minmatar have a way of doing for their Assault bonus. Something that makes our bonus less "unique". Again, I ask: why do the Amarr and Minmatar get bonuses that are so beneficial to their weaknesses yet the Gallente be refused their bonus for their gun's weakness? Saying Dispersion is a large weakness is questionable considering the guns' optimal range of engagement removes the need to worry for such things, especially when the already low feeling dispersion can be reduced by other means. Please reconsider implementing a range increase as the bonus. TL;DR: If the Amarr and Minmatar get bonuses to their true weaknesses, so too should the Gallente. Range will not make their variants vastly better than the other Racial guns and therefore affect balance. With all that said, the second bonus I wouldn't mind seeing would be a ROF bonus. However, as that is an increase to DPS, I don't really see it happening. In which case, a third option would be, as people have noted here, a decrease in damage dropoff past optimal. It's not EXACTLY like a range increase, since the optimal is still at 40ish, but it does make it so rounds hit a bit harder outside that range. And if that's still a no go, then just keep the dispersion bonus and tell us "No" already. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3754	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:27:00 - [34] - Quote I don't run skilled assault suits so my ability to contribute here is limited. Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? I'm actually keeping my mind on things like taking into account assault interactions with sentinels and how to make things more interesting and fun attacking a sentinel hardpoint while keeping it risky. Certain encounters are entirely too one-sided in certain situations.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 238	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:47:00 - [35] - Quote I run all of the Assulat but in order of peference its Minmatar, Amarr, Caldari, Gallente. Why not give a secondary bonus to all of the Assault suits and not the guns. Keep the reload/dispersion but add Caldari: 3 - 5% Shield recharge per level. Keeps shields recharging very quick Galente: 3- 5% Armor repair efficacy per level. Still wont out rep a repair tool but will kkep the assault suit more self suffecient Ammar: 3-5% Armor plate efficacy: Yes, even more HP, but even 15% more isnt the equivalent of another plate> Plus it may encourage Ammar Assaults to equip more reactive and ferroscale plates, because they can provide more armor at less of a movement penalty. Minmatar: 3-5% Biotics efficacy. Encourages the use of kincats, myrofibril, and cardiac regs, It could make the assault nearly as fast as a scout. Just throwing these out there. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vicious Minotaur 1245	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:50:00 - [36] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? Bit of a wall, but: The Minmatar bonus directly improves the capabilities of the CR in and of itself. More rounds in the magazine deals with physical weapon properties, and better allows sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It also lessens a weakness: magazine unloading time. The Amarr bonus directly improves the capabilities of the ScR in and of itself. Heat buildup is a physical property of the weapon, and the reduction allows for sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It lesses a weakness: Massive heat buildup. The Caldari bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the RR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the RR, in that the bonus improves the speed at which the merc is able to put another mag in. That is not a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc. The bonus does not directly affect the ability to fire. It does not really lessen a weakness: reload time is not that significant. Also, shares bonus with Commando Class. (I am inexperience with this one, and may very well be wrong.) The Gallente bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the AR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the AR, in that the bonus improves the Mercs ability to handle the recoil. That is not just a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc (though, recoil is an innate aspect of a gun, so it could be that the internal recoil absoption mechanics are improved) . The bonus kind of [?] affects the ability to fire, in such that the bonus is related to the act of firing. (again, I am iffy on this one) It doesn't lessen a weakness: AR recoil is minimal. The bonuses, if what I say is deemed accurate, need to directly impact the ability to fire and lessen a weakness. The Caldari is definitely an outlier, while the Gallente may meet only one of the mentioned criteria. I am a minotaur.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 238	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:57:00 - [37] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? Bit of a wall, but: The Minmatar bonus directly improves the capabilities of the CR in and of itself. More rounds in the magazine deals with physical weapon properties, and better allows sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It also lessens a weakness: magazine unloading time. The Amarr bonus directly improves the capabilities of the ScR in and of itself. Heat buildup is a physical property of the weapon, and the reduction allows for sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It lesses a weakness: Massive heat buildup. The Caldari bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the RR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the RR, in that the bonus improves the speed at which the merc is able to put another mag in. That is not a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc. The bonus does not directly affect the ability to fire. It does not really lessen a weakness: reload time is not that significant. Also, shares bonus with Commando Class. (I am inexperience with this one, and may very well be wrong.) The Gallente bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the AR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the AR, in that the bonus improves the Mercs ability to handle the recoil. That is not just a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc (though, recoil is an innate aspect of a gun, so it could be that the internal recoil absoption mechanics are improved) . The bonus kind of [?] affects the ability to fire, in such that the bonus is related to the act of firing. (again, I am iffy on this one) It doesn't lessen a weakness: AR recoil is minimal. The bonuses, if what I say is deemed accurate, need to directly impact the ability to fire and lessen a weakness. The Caldari is definitely an outlier, while the Gallente may meet only one of the mentioned criteria. Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vicious Minotaur 1246	Posted - 2014.10.20 06:05:00 - [38] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. If that is indeed the case, then CCP broke something. My Amarr Assault account saw much benefit to the ScR when I started skilling up my Amarr Assault(this was before the dropsuit command partial respec). I have not used that account in ages, though, so I can't verify your (more recent?) findings. I am a minotaur.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 238	Posted - 2014.10.20 06:28:00 - [39] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. If that is indeed the case, then CCP broke something. My Amarr Assault account saw much benefit to the ScR when I started skilling up my Amarr Assault(this was before the dropsuit command partial respec). I have not used that account in ages, though, so I can't verify your (more recent?) findings. Just log in with a buddy not specced into the Amarr assault, both of you pull out a MLT scrambler, and see who can get off the most shots. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vicious Minotaur 1246	Posted - 2014.10.20 07:22:00 - [40] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Just log in with a buddy not specced into the Amarr assault, both of you pull out a MLT scrambler, and see who can get off the most shots. Just tested (and checked out what all the hubbub is over Quafe suits), and using both MLT and STD ScRs, on my amarr character, and my Caldari character. Did three tests per. On my lvl 5 amarr ASLT: ..........STD...............MLT 1) 20 shots...1) 21 shots 2) 20 shots...2) 20 shots 3) 22 shots...3) 21 shots On my unskilled Caldari: ..........STD...............MLT 1) 15 shots...1) 16 shots 2) 16 shots...2) 16 shots 3) 16 shots...3) 16 shots So on my Amarr, I get up around 5 shots more than on my unskilled Caldari character. It seems like everything is functioning. I am a minotaur.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8039	Posted - 2014.10.20 07:30:00 - [41] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Gallente Assault (duh :p ) I feel that a Range bonus to Hybrid Plasma would be the best way to solve this issue. I've been debating between the RoF bonus and Range bonus for quite some time but I finally decided to go with the Range. We could increase range in three ways: A). Give a slight bonus to both Falloff range and Optimal Range B). Give a nice bonus to Falloff Range C). Give a nice bonus to Optimal Range *(My personal Favorite)* Any of those three I'd be happy with. No matter how much you hear random blueberries saying the bonus is useful they are falling victim to the placebo effect and a majority of the time they are in NPC corps. Do not listen to these guys, I've never met another primary Gallente Assault (that's actually good) that said the bonus was good like the Amarr and Minmatar. Caldari Assault user. But increasing optimal range, like the old sharpshooter skill, was removed for being OP, was it not? Not that I'm against it, but we do need to avoid making the next FOTM if possible. I think option A you suggested would be a good balance. Say 3% per level. Gives a healthy boost to both. The weakness is range and assaults are all about shoring up the weaknesses of their rifles, but again, wasn't range increases through skills removed for a reason? You are right and we should not get too crazy with the range if it were to happen but remember that the Game was very different to what we have now. Just to put things in perspective; The Duvolle Tactical has less range than the Rail Rifle and the Duvolle Assault Rifle has less range than the Duvolle Tactical. In my ideal world the Gallente Assault bonus would bounce the Duvolle Assault Rifle to Duvolle Tactical Ranges and put the Duvolle Tactical around the same range as the Rail Rifle. This may sound like it may be OP but the lower Alpha damage will not make it seem like the Rail Rifle at longer Ranges. The Rail has the benefit of higher Alpha so the Falloff doesn't hurt it as much as it would the Plasma Rifles. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3754	Posted - 2014.10.20 08:12:00 - [42] - Quote Ok thenks for the explanation and since I operate commandos using RR and AR yes I consider reload speed on the RR a false benefit. If it takes less than two seconds to reload then it doesn't need a reload bonus. On the gallente I also find AR to be one of the most stable rifles in both hipfire and ADS so benefit isn't one I would find useful on my gallente commando. So now my question to you all. What is more valuable to the bonusing on assaults? I would like to see the gallente and caldari assaults brought into line with the minmatar and amarr. Minmatar assaults and amarra assaults can do something that I have noted continual failure in both the gal and caldari assault. The minmatar with a combat rifle can set up circumstances where he can burn down armor sentinels, and the amarr can torch shield sents. There is a caveat here: both suits have the capacity to set up situations where they have an advantage over the fatties. The gallente assault lacks this because it's engagement range is right around sentinel optimal. None can handle a sentinel in the CQC environment but the minmatar has the range to fight a sent and the magazine capacity to kill an armor sent while remaining outside optimal. The amarr just tears ass across minsent and calsents because lasers. Once you get proficiency 3+ the resists mean very little overall. Caldari have the range but not the mag capacity to kill a fresh sent at range because you're going to miss shots at range. Its just the nature of the beast. Gallente has the worst of both worlds by being forced to run inside sentinel chase range anyway, and not having the magazine. Now bluntly I'm not in favor of gallente and caldari being able to beat hmg sents on cqc in a straight fight. But can we give the assaults a bonus that makes the cqc equation less a sure thing and offer real options for engagement that carry over to more than simply reducing the die in a fire rate when forced into cqc with a sentinel with or without a logi. Sentinels are hard defense but if assaults are intended to attack CQC cap point a smart assault should have a way to fight that isn't dependent upon the 3v1 blueberry lemming rush. Bear in mind I think that running at the fatty should not become less lethal. But there need to be options that cater to smart tactics.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3369	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:20:00 - [43] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. I believe the point of this thread is to replace the current bonuses for the suits not to add to it. Correct, though up-scaling the numbers on the current bonuses would be considered as well. General note: Nothing is set in stone at this point, even a change actually happening, however as a CPM when I continue to hear the same type of comment/feedback coming out of the community it seems important to take notice and dig deeper, hence this thread. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 600	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:48:00 - [44] - Quote Change the weapon fitting bonuses to medium frame bonus. Then, keep all current bonuses, and add an additional third bonus. Caldari: 5% per level reduction to rail weaponry kick/recoil Gallente: buff current bonus to 10% and add in a 1% per level damage increase to blaster weaponry So it'd look like this: caldari medium frame level 5 gives you 25% decrease in weapon fitting costs Caldari assault level 5 gives 25% reduction to reload time and 25% reduction to kick/recoil
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3755	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:51:00 - [45] - Quote Would giving gallente or caldarI assaults something akin to resistance penetration be considered valuable? Since gallente suits with AR are by definition going to operate In CQC would giving them 2% resistance penetration per level be a viable thing? And I don't mean multiplier. It directly lowers the resistance rating of an enemy target on a 1 for 1 basis when using plasma weapons? This would make the gallente assault capable of tackling an experienced sentinel in the same way an experienced sentinel tackles an expert HAV driver. With the means to partially negate an advantage. It would also assist gallente AV given that while amusing, the PLC is the most cumbersome and inaccurate AV capable weapon we have. So as an example a level 5 galssault encounters a level 5 cal sentinel 1v1. The calsent is rocking an HMG and 15% shield resistance to plasma. The gallente assault bonus reduces that bonus to 5 on a 1 for 1 basis. Now the calsent is running at a similar resistance to plasma as calsent 2. But still retains his massive shield buffer. But drop the same gallente on an amarr sentinel which is not bonused for plasma it doesn't cut a 10% bonus to efficacy. Similar things occur in AV when running plasma cannon vs. Vehicles. Vehicles have a native resistance built in due to previous balancing passes. This is my suggestion for gallente assault. I will think on caldari while I'm supposed to be working.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1411	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:11:00 - [46] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I have for quite some time now been hearing that while the Amarr and Minmitar racial bonuses are useful the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are a bit lack luster. As such input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Gal and Cal racial bonuses, and how to polish the experience and utility of same. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs. I feel largely that this is simply a perceptional bias - don't get me wrong, the amarr and minmatar bonuses are quite good but they're only perceived to be better than gallente and caldari bonuses because they are the only source of these bonuses. The gallente bonus in particular (now that we have a bit more information on how dispersion works) is UNBELIEVABLY powerful when moving and shooting it just isn't perceived to be that powerful because it's a 'non-visible' bonus (even with one level in min/amarr or cal suits you can see and feel the differences +rounds/lvl or slightly faster reload). I've spoken at length before about how in other games 'non-visible' bonuses almost have to reach the point of being overpowered before they end up being valued by players in them - Imagine a module in dust where you could fit it to your suit and it gave everyone in your squad +30 armor, 2hp/second reps and -15% shield delays, no matter where they are on the map.... this is an incredibly powerful module, yet it would only have say half the perceived value as a complex reactive plate despite proving a much larger numerical advantage. You can read a bit about it from a LoL designer's perspective in the first bit of 'power without gameplay'. I strongly feel that any bonus to the assault suit should be 'performance' related rather than buffs to straight killing power (like damage, rate of fire, or range which affects how well you're able to project DPS) and for the most part all of the races currently fit that design value with a bit of minor tweaking here and there. The gallente assault bonus is very good right now, the caldari assault's reload bonus is the exact same as the commando's and that's fine - except the commando also gets a damage buff on top of it as well, while the caldari assault gets nothing else. I think that adding a kick reduction of 5% per level to the caldari assault suit would make it a bit of a stronger choice when it comes to rail weaponry, helping make weapons like the assault rail rifle, magsec smg or even the sniper rifle perform more optimally in all situations. Currently the caldari lineup of weapons handles exactly the same on every suit in the game, instead of handling better on the race of suits they're intended for. Throwing a bone to the gallente players though, I think the assault rifle needs some slight range buffs and the rail rifle could use some slight range/performance nerfs on non caldari suits. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18267	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:21:00 - [47] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. Lucent Echelon channel co-ordinator - Gal FW You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 438	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:59:00 - [48] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. LOL I've sent Cross a message ingame to look at this. He did, hence this thread.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 252	Posted - 2014.10.20 13:17:00 - [49] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? Bit of a wall, but: The Minmatar bonus directly improves the capabilities of the CR in and of itself. More rounds in the magazine deals with physical weapon properties, and better allows sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It also lessens a weakness: magazine unloading time. The Amarr bonus directly improves the capabilities of the ScR in and of itself. Heat buildup is a physical property of the weapon, and the reduction allows for sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It lesses a weakness: Massive heat buildup. The Caldari bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the RR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the RR, in that the bonus improves the speed at which the merc is able to put another mag in. That is not a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc. The bonus does not directly affect the ability to fire. It does not really lessen a weakness: reload time is not that significant. Also, shares bonus with Commando Class. (I am inexperience with this one, and may very well be wrong.) The Gallente bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the AR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the AR, in that the bonus improves the Mercs ability to handle the recoil. That is not just a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc (though, recoil is an innate aspect of a gun, so it could be that the internal recoil absoption mechanics are improved) . The bonus kind of [?] affects the ability to fire, in such that the bonus is related to the act of firing. (again, I am iffy on this one) It doesn't lessen a weakness: AR recoil is minimal. The bonuses, if what I say is deemed accurate, need to directly impact the ability to fire and lessen a weakness. The Caldari is definitely an outlier, while the Gallente may meet only one of the mentioned criteria. Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. The assault let's you fire 20 extra rounds making you overheat St 80 rounds instead of 60..These last 20 rounds are also death touch to almost every suit in dust no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 193	Posted - 2014.10.20 14:46:00 - [50] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. The amarr weapons are suppose to be much older, the suit is suppose to be made to use this weapon the best. The gun has a -20 to armor, which their suit is about armor. Currently Gallente suits have passive armor repair, the Minmitar still have a primary assault weapon that needs balancing. People that just want a buff in range are not looking at how will it effect the other weapons and their relation. The gallente assault rifles do not suffer from drawbacks in using it like the amarr weaponry. The rail rifle has a bit of a charge but it doesn't have a mechanic that gives this weapon some type of hang up. If anything its current stats need to be reduced for those who use that weapon making those particular assault suits the best. If people would take the time to understand how this will effect the other weapons, and CCP takes into account how this effects their balancing issue the counter to working backwards just may stop. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 439	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:02:00 - [51] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. The amarr weapons are suppose to be much older, the suit is suppose to be made to use this weapon the best. The gun has a -20 to armor, which their suit is about armor. Currently Gallente suits have passive armor repair, the Minmitar still have a primary assault weapon that needs balancing. People that just want a buff in range are not looking at how will it effect the other weapons and their relation. The gallente assault rifles do not suffer from drawbacks in using it like the amarr weaponry. The rail rifle has a bit of a charge but it doesn't have a mechanic that gives this weapon some type of hang up. If anything its current stats need to be reduced for those who use that weapon making those particular assault suits the best. If people would take the time to understand how this will effect the other weapons, and CCP takes into account how this effects their balancing issue the counter to working backwards just may stop. You must use Amarr. Ever tried to pin people in from range with sustained fire while using a rail rifle and staying on target. Drawback of the RR is the kick over time and the charge up time, yet people only seem to see the charge up as a drawback on a weapon that has the highest kick of all the rifles.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:02:00 - [52] - Quote Since the kick on the RR is progressive it is useless all you have to do is stop firing for and instant to subvert this mechanic and with the charge so short there is no loss. In CQC the kick is beneficial as it works as a pseudo dispersion (focused fire into dispersed fire) giving the rail rifle such grand ability at range and CQC. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Ku Shala The Generals 982	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:05:00 - [53] - Quote as a caldari assault would like to see 2 things done to the suit reduced kick on RR and passive armour rep so you can fit regulators on std and adv suits easier, at range where the suit belongs its hard to carry enough nanos for repairs without gimping the suit. would also consider bonus to shield regulators, or a reduction to the amount of shield delay added by extenders like - 2% to delay on shield extenders *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18269	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:15:00 - [54] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gallente has the worst of both worlds by being forced to run inside sentinel chase range anyway, and not having the magazine. Now bluntly I'm not in favor of gallente and caldari being able to beat hmg sents on cqc in a straight fight. But can we give the assaults a bonus that makes the cqc equation less a sure thing and offer real options for engagement that carry over to more than simply reducing the die in a fire rate when forced into cqc with a sentinel with or without a logi. Sentinels are hard defense but if assaults are intended to attack CQC cap point a smart assault should have a way to fight that isn't dependent upon the 3v1 blueberry lemming rush. Bear in mind I think that running at the fatty should not become less lethal. But there need to be options that cater to smart tactics. This is one of my reasons for favouring a range bonus on the Galassault. It gets around this situation because it doesn't help take on sentinels in CQC at all - you're still going to have just as hard a time of it attacking heavies head on as you are now - but it caters to tactics by allowing you to engage from outside the killzone. An AR does not outrange a HMG by a healthy enough margin to survive a head on attack regardless of what range the AR user is trying to do it at present, because unless at the very edge ranges the HMG can strike back and if at those ranges it simply doesn't have the punch to down the sentinel before it gets to cover. With a range bonus (and it's worth noting that a 25% bonus wouldn't bring it up to the point where ARs are noticeably outranging CRs) it allows the AR user to engage in a small window where they can't easily be killed back by the HMG but it's feasible for them to down the sentinel. The present bonus just doesn't help at all. Recoil is utterly negligible on an assault rifle and is easily controllable even on the TAR. The hipfire is fine - after sharpshooter 5 nothing really gets helped by it. The assault plasma rifle hipfire is entirely adequate. The TAR receives some fringe benefits, I suppose. You cannot possibly need tighter hipfire on the breach plasma rifle, and the burst plasma rifle is in the same boat as the assault variant. Shotguns? Nobody uses shotguns on a Galassault unless they don't know what they're doing. A scout does it infinitely better. And they don't receive much benefit anyway. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:27:00 - [55] - Quote Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18270	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:48:00 - [56] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 91	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:11:00 - [57] - Quote I haz cal assault 5 I like to use "regen tanking" regulators, Rechargers and energizers I use pretty all the different caldari weapons, my assault mainly uses assault rails, knives ,bolt pistols and magsecs As for an additional weapon based bonus; 3-5% recoil reduction, fully skilled rail weapons(5% kick reduction lvl) along with reload skills (3% lvl) become very potent in a proto assaults hands, even on std or adv frames as long as you have the skills trained The recoil reduction allows the more trained operative to be able to sustain fire more accurately for longer durations. The other one for the dropsuit I really like 2-4% efficacy of shield regulators,energizers,recharges Incentivises regen tanking more, allowing u to edge optimal ranges and fight in bursts between cover Negatives of these are that they are already skills available, so some things may get out of hand. However neither bonus effects the assaults hp, range, dmg per shot, ROF That's my thoughts so far, I hope it helps. Il post any further ideas CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 87	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:24:00 - [58] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. Aye, I'd rather see that range increase come in, already posted a lengthy note on it here. The other popular alternative was ROF, but that's technically "off the table" too due to it being a damage buff. I don't really see much more that could be done boost the gun itself. Could we maybe start looking at bonuses to the suit itself? I'd rather not but I figure we should acknowledge that option is there. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3376	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:51:00 - [59] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. You are both correct. While an increase to the maximum range is likely outside the purview of this change set (and bearing that in mind is important) I am still completely open to hearing ideas and descriptions in that vein if people are inclined to put them forward. Simply be advised that they may not be actionable. Cheers, Cross EDIT: I've been catching up with the thread, and with some related messages on skype and the notion of increasing optimal range was brought up. This would not alter the absolute value of weapon ranges in any way, thus keeping their profile the same, however it would give better performance in that more of their total range would now (in the hands of a skilled assault) be within the weapons optimal. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1412	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:56:00 - [60] - Quote If the assault rifle gets a range buff I'd like to see it happen on the assault rifle itself, rather than be a bonus to the suit. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. Tl;dr "I know that it's off the table but I'm still going to cry about how bad I want an overpowered buff to MY suit." Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3376	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:57:00 - [61] - Quote Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 93	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:59:00 - [62] - Quote Possible gal bonuses 5-10% hybrid blaster total ammo Bonus to flux nade radius 5%ish Bonus to armour fittings...3-5% armour rep fitting reduction Just ideas... CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18272	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:59:00 - [63] - Quote I've been speaking with Cross via Skype on this topic. Arkena Wyrnspire: "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs." I'd just like to comment on this - Unless using very large numbers, neither of these bonuses would seriously affect racial flavour. A range bonus to rail weaponry for the Caldari would still have them as the longest range types, and up to a 25% range bonus on the Gallente dropsuit the range of plasma rifles wouldn't exceed the range of combat rifles. A damage bonus would similarly work for either race because it still wouldn't throw the damage output out of whack with the other racial gear - an RR wouldn't start outDPSing a CR with a 10% bonus, and the 10% bonus already works fine on the commando. Cross Atu: the damage bonus is due to role overlap not balance per se, the commando is already lacking a defined niche so adding a direct damage buff would degrade that still further, range buffs are being left alone because last I heard from CCP things that altered the range of weapons were considered verboden due to how the old sharpshooter skills effected balance. So in both cases I'm essentially just 'coloring within the lines' Arkena Wyrnspire: Is role overlap undesirable? There is a reload bonus presently shared between the Caldari assault and the commando class. Cross Atu: Some degree of overlap could be workable, part of the issue with the commando is that their role is so weakly defined right now and they need their own workup, adding something which further waters down where they are seems like a step backwards that aside giving the assault more damage as an effect does seem good, the amarr bonus is pretty much the gold standard at this point but finding similar things for the gal/cal may be difficult Arkena Wyrnspire: I don't think the commando role is weakly defined so much as the suits themselves are weak. The two light weapon thing is pretty distinctive and a huge incentive to use them. I adore using two light weapons. The main thing that stops me from doing that, though, is that the suit itself is pretty weak. I was inclined to suggest charge time for the Cal and range for the Gal, previously. A charge time bonus would have to be significant, though, something like 10% per level, and that would be a pretty huge buff to the charge sniper. Cross Atu: the one point of unity that has really been present in the commando thread is that they lack fittings resources, and that seems evident to me as well, however when the question of "what do they do" is riased almost everyone has a differing answer regarding the nature of the commando role Cross Atu: [19:11] Arkena Wyrnspire: <<< A charge time bonus would have to be significant, though, something like 10% per level, and that would be a pretty huge buff to the charge sniper.That's an interesting concept for sure, how would you see that being applied? Cross Atu: sorry, wow, totally missed the 10% you typed there Cross Atu: reading fail for me :P Cross Atu: that would provide value to the charged SR, the RR, and the MagSec (nod) Cross Atu: What about (and I don't know if this can be done tech wise) an increase to the optimal of the Gal weapons. Absolute range wouldn't change but I might be able to sell CCP on a buff that expands the portion of weapon range in which you are getting full damage -snip commando discussion- Arkena Wyrnspire: Changing the absolute range is kind of pointless. At that point you've got so little damage it's worthless to be shooting out there anyway. Arkena Wyrnspire: The optimal range would be useful. One of the main killers of AR Galassaults are HMG heavies, because there isn't really a window in which the AR can engage that's safely outside HMG range. Cross Atu: any thoughts on the per level value that would be soild for such a buff if applied? Arkena Wyrnspire: 5% maximum, I think. Past that point it starts to outrange the CR. That'd give about 10m more range. he other thing is that it would affect the shotgun. The plasma cannon still wouldn't be affected but other than a reload or damage bonus there's nothing I can think of that would affect all the Gallente weapons. Cross Atu: They are kind of spread around the map aren't they :P Arkena Wyrnspire: Another thing that could be considered is non-weapon bonuses. For example, armour repairs on the Gallente and shields on the Caldari. Cross Atu: This is true, that would give them something unique within the current assault context. I think CCP is leaning towards keeping the assault buffs more "gank" focused if possible however, so I'll see what they have to say about the charge and optimal increases first :) Arkena Wyrnspire: None of the assaults are really bonused towards gank, though. Only to sustained damage/damage application. None of the bonuses apart from perhaps some edge effects of the Amarr bonus help you actually gank targets quicker. Cross Atu: Higher / sustained damage output is what I was refrencing not pure alpha per se Arkena Wyrnspire: The Amarr assault has some effect on alpha because with the bonus you can reliably use the charge shot. But again, really, it's not higher damage output. It's just better sustained. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18272	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:00:00 - [64] - Quote Cross Atu: Yea, broadly speaking the goal (as I understand it) is to have assault buffs that mitigate the shortcomings of their racial weapons and in so doing provide a better sustained/average damage profile with the amarr being the classic example (tho the min does alright as well AFAIK). But I only have each racial assult to level 1 so my direct personal testing is very limited at this point Arkena Wyrnspire: [19:28] Cross Atu: <<< mitigate the shortcomingsThat fits charge time/range, then. Arkena Wyrnspire: Alternatively, I heard something about Rattati not liking dying in CQC to RRs? If there's a hipfire change on them a hipfire bonus could well work for rail weaponry. Cross Atu: That's a good point as well, touche up the CQC for RRs, and I have discovered it isn't a bad thing to present more than one option when moving ideas forward with CCP ;) Arkena Wyrnspire: It also presents an option for dealing with bolt pistol dominance - upping the hipfire spread. *END CHAT PASTE* I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others. EDIT: Cross sort of summarised at the top of the page. This is here for those who want to know more about the reasoning, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 442	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:01:00 - [65] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross This would make the Charge Sniper so OP it renders all sniper rifles useless. Besides the real drawback of rail weaponry is kick and its inability to sustain fire in a accurate manner. Not charge up time imho EDIT All caldari suits proto. First proto suit was assault
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 93	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:21:00 - [66] - Quote If caldari assault were to get a kick reduction, a hipfire dispersion nerf may be needed to give it just the right balance. Bolt pistols would also benefit from hipfire nerf, also I say spread its damage per magazine out to 5-6 rounds Kick reduction makes all snipers better, firing series of shots in quick succession. An interesting difference with commando Magsec hipfire may be ok where it is, kick reduction isn't that necessary...tough one... CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3259	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:24:00 - [67] - Quote CALDARI: Reload speed is not a weakness of Caldari Rail Weapons, the only weapon that would benefit from it would be the Swarm Launcher, which is not affected by the Assault Bonus. Caldari have effectivly 7 different types of weapons, 2 Rail Rifles, Magsec, Bolt Pistol, and 3 sniper rifles. Reduction to charge time would affect 5 of these (Both Rifles, Magsec, Pistol, and Charge Sniper) but the added benefit is small for all of them except the Charge Sniper, so only 1 weapon gets a strong benefit from reduced charge time. Recoil would affect 6 of these weapons (Both Rifles, Magsec, Pistol, Charge & Tac Sniper) but the added benefit is most useful for the Rifles, Magsec, and Tac Sniper, so 4 of the 7 have a strong benefit from reduced recoil. (Correct me if I'm mispeaking on the Sniper Rifles, I'm not as familiar with them as some) Reload affects all of these weapons but as stated before, does not have a strong benefit for any of them, as Caldari Weapons don't suffer much from long reloads. That being said, I feel reduced recoil for the Caldari Assault gives the biggest benefit overall. GALLENTE: This one is a bit trickier, as the bonus it currently has isn't bad, but it feels underwhelming in many cases. Gallente Effectively have 7 different types of weapons, 3 Rifles, Ion Pistol, 2 shotguns, and plasma cannon. Fire Rate/Damage are not weaknesses of the Gallente weapons, as they often support very high fire rates and often the highest overall DPS. Range is an obvious weakness but with recent balance passes, DPS is balanced against range. Giving Gallente Weapons more range breaks this progression and infringes on other weapons, so I'm extremely reluctant to go that direction. This would benefit all weapons save perhaps the PLC. Dispersion would benefit all 3 rifles and the ion pistol (though the Tac AR would have a lesser benefit.) If the bonus actually tightened the Shotgun's cone I think it would be far better received, with perhaps a buff to the bonus amount. Honestly if we're avoiding damage and range, I think dispersion is really the only logical choice, perhaps reworked a bit to make it sound and feel more appealing. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 93	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:34:00 - [68] - Quote Blaster optimal is lowest, being able to buff it only on the assault suit sounds reasonable If you do it so it outranges the next longest projectile, the assault gains a niche, the commando keeps the niche of up close rapid reload Essentially a max gal assault retains his power further into his maximum range It just might work Only the assault can do it.. Shotguns and ion pistol range is so small...not sure it will give u much CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1972	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:36:00 - [69] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Gallente Assault (duh :p ) I feel that a Range bonus to Hybrid Plasma would be the best way to solve this issue. I've been debating between the RoF bonus and Range bonus for quite some time but I finally decided to go with the Range. We could increase range in three ways: A). Give a slight bonus to both Falloff range and Optimal Range B). Give a nice bonus to Falloff Range C). Give a nice bonus to Optimal Range *(My personal Favorite)* Any of those three I'd be happy with. No matter how much you hear random blueberries saying the bonus is useful they are falling victim to the placebo effect and a majority of the time they are in NPC corps. Do not listen to these guys, I've never met another primary Gallente Assault (that's actually good) that said the bonus was good like the Amarr and Minmatar. Caldari Assault user. But increasing optimal range, like the old sharpshooter skill, was removed for being OP, was it not? Not that I'm against it, but we do need to avoid making the next FOTM if possible. I think option A you suggested would be a good balance. Say 3% per level. Gives a healthy boost to both. The weakness is range and assaults are all about shoring up the weaknesses of their rifles, but again, wasn't range increases through skills removed for a reason? You are right and we should not get too crazy with the range if it were to happen but remember that the Game was very different to what we have now. Just to put things in perspective; The Duvolle Tactical has less range than the Rail Rifle and the Duvolle Assault Rifle has less range than the Duvolle Tactical. In my ideal world the Gallente Assault bonus would bounce the Duvolle Assault Rifle to Duvolle Tactical Ranges and put the Duvolle Tactical around the same range as the Rail Rifle. This may sound like it may be OP but the lower Alpha damage will not make it seem like the Rail Rifle at longer Ranges. The Rail has the benefit of higher Alpha so the Falloff doesn't hurt it as much as it would the Plasma Rifles. An interesting point. I am for it, as long as it doesn't encroach onto other rifles' territory. I think the PR should be lacking at range compared to the RR, but I'm definitely in favor of closing the gap some. I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18275	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:42:00 - [70] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: If the bonus actually tightened the Shotgun's cone I think it would be far better received, with perhaps a buff to the bonus amount. Despite appearances, if you do not have the centre of the shotgun reticule on a target you will do no damage. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:43:00 - [71] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross This would make the Charge Sniper so OP it renders all sniper rifles useless. Besides the real drawback of rail weaponry is kick and its inability to sustain fire in a accurate manner. Not charge up time imho EDIT All caldari suits proto. First proto suit was assault I have not sniped in any meaningful way since beta, please elaborate. o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 146	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:43:00 - [72] - Quote Lol and thats why you shouldn't skype with strange people on the net lolz. Did he/she convince you lol? ..Sigh.. Back to the topic: The goal should be to make each classes more unique instead of attempting to generalize them or attempt to make them over powered; It might even help if you Imagine the RR and CR in a balance state. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1412	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:46:00 - [73] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross I am heavily against an optimal range buff on the assault suit, as that directly affects the ability to project DPS. I can sympathize with the desire for a range buff on the assault suit, because currently plays within the same schoolyard as the vastly the bully called the HMG, but I feel that this should be a buff to the default value of the weapon itself, rather than something slapped on to the suit to compensate a subpar weapon. I do not feel that any assault should be outright better from a damage or ability to project damage than a non-assault, any damage or range buffs throw this out the window completely. I am all for the assault rifle being in a healthy place, so long as that healthy isn't solely relegated to the hands of the assault. If it were to be relegated solely to the assault I feel that it could have an incredible negative effect on the game as a whole. I think the 'template' for assaults should be more akin to the Amarr assault, in that the bonus helps make a decent weapon much better by slightly compensating for a drawback, or accentuating a strength. With the Minmatar the bonus is quite good (though I absolutely despise it for being relatively unoriginal and not applying to 50% of minmatar weapons). In the Caldari case while we are happy with the reload speed, a reduction of spoolup is not a meaningful bonus as spoolup is already fairly negligible, kick reduction on the other hand makes the weapons perform much better the longer a fight goes on (which ties back in to the template set by the Amarr and Minmatar). In the case of the Gallente there are a few downsides to their weapons that aren't necessarily universal or if they are, are points of design balance. Starting with the Assault rifle: -Low range (should be buffed on the rifle itself) -Low total ammo carried (on the standard / burst variants) -Low magazine capacity (on the tactical / breach variants - offset by having some of the best damage/magazine) -Relatively high dispersion on most models (compounded with movement, but compensated for by current assault skill). Ion Pistol - Low range - high dispersion - 'low' total ammo - Poor charged shot functionality Designed mostly to be this way Shotgun -Low range -Low total ammo carried -high dispersion (compounded when moving) -Lengthy reloads Plasma Cannon -Low total ammo. -Long reload time. -not a hitscan weapon -1 shot wonder. The only real 'feelgood' universal buff that can be given is to gallente assault that benefits all weapons is reload speed, and then the next buff should target the most common factor of non-specialist weapons which is dispersion while moving, kick is fairly negligible or non-existant on most gallente weapons. My proposal is a 5% buff to reload speed and a 5% reduction to hipfire dispersion. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
hfderrtgvcd 902	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:47:00 - [74] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross This would make the Charge Sniper so OP it renders all sniper rifles useless. Besides the real drawback of rail weaponry is kick and its inability to sustain fire in a accurate manner. Not charge up time imho EDIT All caldari suits proto. First proto suit was assault I have not sniped in any meaningful way since beta, please elaborate. o7 basically doubles the dps of the charge sniper You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1412	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:51:00 - [75] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lol and thats why you shouldn't skype with strange people on the net lolz. Did he/she convince you lol? ..Sigh.. Back to the topic: The goal should be to make each classes more unique instead of attempting to generalize them or attempt to make them over powered; It might even help if you Imagine the RR and CR in a balance state. Yeah I like how people weren't buying into arkena and kirks crap so rather than have an intelligent debate about the merits of such buffs we instead go directly to crying to the CPM member on Skype and now we have him honestly considering a incredibly unbalanced by design buff. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:52:00 - [76] - Quote More specifically to the point, Is it the buff type or the numeric value which causes issues? See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1972	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:53:00 - [77] - Quote I think Caldari Assault needs a recoil reduction. This is the disadvantage of all rail weapons (BP, RR, SR, Magsec) and helps the weapon apply more DPS, which is what the Amarr and MinAssault suits do. I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1412	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:58:00 - [78] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: More specifically to the point, Is it the buff type or the numeric value which causes issues? It's the buff type. Any buff to range affects ability to project dps, which is inherently unbalanced when it comes to assault vs non-assault. Because the assault suits are so good now, buffs to them should not ever affect up front dps versus other suits, but their ability to project that dps over time - assaults should be used for staying power and slaying power not for being the I win because i murder 55% harder suit. Assaults should be oriented towards damage over time, rather than frontloaded damage. Range is a buff that affects damage over time from a distance. It's quite clear that the assault rifle needs a range buff, but that needs to happen to the assault rifle itself - it's in the same rough engagement range as the HMG, which really hurts its function as a primary weapon. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 49	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:03:00 - [79] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: More specifically to the point, Is it the buff type or the numeric value which causes issues? As a Gallente commando, I can say that the biggest detriment to the Plasma rifle is it's range. It has a optimal of 42 meters and an effective of 70m. It is specifically this 28m difference that is the problem as the RR and ScR have on difference of 20. This is a problem with the weapon itself, and I believe that the assault getting a bonus to this weapon would fix this problem. It means that while an assault is more incentivised to use this weapon, nobody else is. I so WAY more Galmandos with RRs and CRs because they have better performance in general. This is indicative of the Plasma rifle itself needing a buff, not the Gal assault suit needing one. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:03:00 - [80] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lol and thats why you shouldn't skype with strange people on the net lolz. Did he/she convince you lol? ..Sigh.. Back to the topic: The goal should be to make each classes more unique instead of attempting to generalize them or attempt to make them over powered; It might even help if you Imagine the RR and CR in a balance state. Yeah I like how people weren't buying into arkena and kirks crap so rather than have an intelligent debate about the merits of such buffs we instead go directly to crying to the CPM member on Skype and now we have him honestly considering a incredibly unbalanced by design buff. A) Chill B) I have e-mail, skype, and this thread all of which I'm monitoring, people are *supposed* to talk to me, that's kind of the point C) When I say what do people think of this and why, let's discuss that's what it means, it is not rhetorical. If you have points to make then make them. nods at back on topic Just like that. D) This thread only went up last night before I left for work, it is hardly in a finalized state (even so the type of buffs proposed in the quoted text are hardly unique to the skype chat, changes of that type have already been mentioned in this thread by more than one person). So to refocus: Feedback is more valuable when it contains descriptions rather than statements Feedback is more actionable when it is debating the topic rather than the presenter Feedback which defines "how" and/or "why" is vastly more useful that statements about "what" These are all key, as an example saying "that would be OP" doesn't really do much in the way of supplying constructive information. Whereas by contrast saying "change X would effect mechanic Y in Z manner which would be over powered" can be applied usefully and discussed constructively. With regards to your prior post those are fair points to raise and consider. Having said that if something is potent but feels underwhelming a change may very much still be called for. Note I say change not buff. Base value in a game is - theoretically - fun factor. If something feels underwhelming to a substantial number of players it is at least worth looking at the mechanic in question and seeing if there are ways to apply polish. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)

Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 93	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:08:00 - [81] - Quote So if we buff the plasma rifle optimal 5-8m, what should the gal assault have with its new found optimal range? CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1413	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:10:00 - [82] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: So if we buff the plasma rifle optimal 5-8m, what should the gal assault have with its new found optimal range? If we fixed the optimal on the rifle I don't think there is a need for an optimal range buff on the suit. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:12:00 - [83] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Cross Atu wrote: More specifically to the point, Is it the buff type or the numeric value which causes issues? It's the buff type. Any buff to range affects ability to project dps, which is inherently unbalanced when it comes to assault vs non-assault. Any buff to DPS affects balance of assaults vs non assault. Because the assault suits are so good now, buffs to them should not ever affect up front dps versus other suits, but their ability to project that dps over time - assaults should be used for staying power and durational slaying power not for being the 'I win because i murder 55% harder suit'. Assaults should be oriented towards damage over time, rather than frontloaded damage - this is the template set by the amarr and minmatar. Range is a buff that affects damage over time from a distance which throws assault vs non assault. It's quite clear that the assault rifle needs a range buff, but that needs to happen to the assault rifle itself - it's in the same rough engagement range as the HMG, which really hurts its function as a primary weapon. This is in reference to the mentioned Gal bonus yes? Rather than the mentioned Cal bonus? Presuming that is the case an elaboration also needs to be made for more weapons that the Gal AR (not saying this needs to happen in your quoted text, just in general) because the assault bonus being defined by a single weapon seems like a poor method to take. In the case of the Gal this makes finding applicable buffs tricky. I realize that "feel" is more than a little slippery when it comes to how it interacts with numeric balance and certainly giving something extra power because the feel isn't as appealing will rarely result in a positive outcome so keeping an eye on that is key. 'Threading the needle' this point consists of finding something which address the consistent requests for a more meaningful Gal/Cal bonus, applies to more than one weapon sub-type within the racial line, and does not break the power curve. Some of this stuff is apples to oranges but it is all relevant. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
hfderrtgvcd 903	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:14:00 - [84] - Quote while we're talking about assault bonuses, shouldn't the minmatar assault bonus also benefit mass drivers and flaylocks? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 49	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:15:00 - [85] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: So if we buff the plasma rifle optimal 5-8m, what should the gal assault have with its new found optimal range? If we adjust the range on the rifle itself, then it needs no further adjustment in that regard. I think it's current bonus is good, but perhaps if it were adjusted by a larger amount, like 6% or 8% or even 10%, then it might seems more useful. The rifle itself handles fine in general. Being able to aim down sights to hit a target in the head at a distance, and being able to hit the target up close, while still getting to actively maintain maximum maneuverability makes it a powerful bonus. This could also make the shotgun VERY good if the numbers work out correctly, but I am not an expert on that weapon. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 93	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:15:00 - [86] - Quote Agreed, so in feeling something about armour, incentivise reactives and ferroscale, maybe repairers, try and promote a more mobile high repair suit, contrasting more with commandos and sentinels slow, high hp play CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 50	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:19:00 - [87] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: while we're talking about assault bonuses, shouldn't the minmatar assault bonus also benefit mass drivers and flaylocks? I believe it should. The PLC and Swarm are AV weapons, and I feel their universal need to fulfill that roll should exclude them from similar balance concerns for their respective assaults, the Flaylock and MD need some love too. Perhaps a +10% magazine capacity per level bonus to those weapons should be in order. Or maybe another bonus that effects their performance. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:20:00 - [88] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: while we're talking about assault bonuses, shouldn't the minmatar assault bonus also benefit mass drivers and flaylocks? Ideally yes, I think it should. Consider that conversation also on the table. EDIT: Honestly, even the Amarr bonus which works well generally speaking, falls a bit short in that it does nothing for their side arms. There may not be a way to do this properly but in an ideal world it seems like an assault suit should provide enhanced *sustained* (not alpha) damage from its racially related weapons (both light weapons and sidearms). ^This is my fundamental conception/impression. If anyone thinks I'm crazy, or doesn't know what the kitten I'm talking about, feel free to discuss it with me here. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 50	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:25:00 - [89] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: Agreed, so in feeling something about armour, incentivise reactives and ferroscale, maybe repairers, try and promote a more mobile high repair suit, contrasting more with commandos and sentinels slow, high hp play I think that as it stands, the ferroscale and reactive plates just don't provide enough incentive to use them over a regular plate and armor rep. Ideally, as they make kin cats, a gal should have speed to help them close the gap, but the speed/HP, and range/DPS balances aren't easy things to simply point out as having one or two problems. I think this warrants further investigation. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1413	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:27:00 - [90] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Cross Atu wrote: More specifically to the point, Is it the buff type or the numeric value which causes issues? It's the buff type. Any buff to range affects ability to project dps, which is inherently unbalanced when it comes to assault vs non-assault. Any buff to DPS affects balance of assaults vs non assault. Because the assault suits are so good now, buffs to them should not ever affect up front dps versus other suits, but their ability to project that dps over time - assaults should be used for staying power and durational slaying power not for being the 'I win because i murder 55% harder suit'. Assaults should be oriented towards damage over time, rather than frontloaded damage - this is the template set by the amarr and minmatar. Range is a buff that affects damage over time from a distance which throws assault vs non assault. It's quite clear that the assault rifle needs a range buff, but that needs to happen to the assault rifle itself - it's in the same rough engagement range as the HMG, which really hurts its function as a primary weapon. This is in reference to the mentioned Gal bonus yes? Rather than the mentioned Cal bonus? Presuming that is the case an elaboration also needs to be made for more weapons that the Gal AR (not saying this needs to happen in your quoted text, just in general) because the assault bonus being defined by a single weapon seems like a poor method to take. In the case of the Gal this makes finding applicable buffs tricky. I realize that "feel" is more than a little slippery when it comes to how it interacts with numeric balance and certainly giving something extra power because the feel isn't as appealing will rarely result in a positive outcome so keeping an eye on that is key. 'Threading the needle' this point consists of finding something which address the consistent requests for a more meaningful Gal/Cal bonus, applies to more than one weapon sub-type within the racial line, and does not break the power curve. Some of this stuff is apples to oranges but it is all relevant. It's mostly in regards to any weapon. If you look at the scrambler rifle or laser rifle they still function very well when used on non-amarr suits, they just function better over extreme lengths of time when used on the amarr suit. I'll agree that the potential desired buffs on the gallente are a bit wonky to try and find balance for, which is why in one of my previous posts I suggested a reload speed bonus as the primary 'good feeling' bonus, and then the hipfire dispersion reduction as the less obvious but far more performance related buff. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 50	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:30:00 - [91] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Honestly, even the Amarr bonus which works well generally speaking, falls a bit short in that it does nothing for their side arms. Don't ScPs have subtle heat buildup like the plasma rifle? I think I heard that it can seize up if fired repeatedly. Haven't run into that specifically though ans I haven't the skills for the ammo capacity required to make it work. If so, and the Amarr assault bonus applies to it, then that sounds useful enough to me. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:35:00 - [92] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Cross Atu wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Cross Atu wrote: More specifically to the point, Is it the buff type or the numeric value which causes issues? It's the buff type. Any buff to range affects ability to project dps, which is inherently unbalanced when it comes to assault vs non-assault. Any buff to DPS affects balance of assaults vs non assault. Because the assault suits are so good now, buffs to them should not ever affect up front dps versus other suits, but their ability to project that dps over time - assaults should be used for staying power and durational slaying power not for being the 'I win because i murder 55% harder suit'. Assaults should be oriented towards damage over time, rather than frontloaded damage - this is the template set by the amarr and minmatar. Range is a buff that affects damage over time from a distance which throws assault vs non assault. It's quite clear that the assault rifle needs a range buff, but that needs to happen to the assault rifle itself - it's in the same rough engagement range as the HMG, which really hurts its function as a primary weapon. This is in reference to the mentioned Gal bonus yes? Rather than the mentioned Cal bonus? Presuming that is the case an elaboration also needs to be made for more weapons that the Gal AR (not saying this needs to happen in your quoted text, just in general) because the assault bonus being defined by a single weapon seems like a poor method to take. In the case of the Gal this makes finding applicable buffs tricky. I realize that "feel" is more than a little slippery when it comes to how it interacts with numeric balance and certainly giving something extra power because the feel isn't as appealing will rarely result in a positive outcome so keeping an eye on that is key. 'Threading the needle' this point consists of finding something which address the consistent requests for a more meaningful Gal/Cal bonus, applies to more than one weapon sub-type within the racial line, and does not break the power curve. Some of this stuff is apples to oranges but it is all relevant. It's mostly in regards to any weapon. If you look at the scrambler rifle or laser rifle they still function very well when used on non-amarr suits, they just function better over extreme lengths of time when used on the amarr suit. I'll agree that the potential desired buffs on the gallente are a bit wonky to try and find balance for, which is why in one of my previous posts I suggested a reload speed bonus as the primary 'good feeling' bonus, and then the hipfire dispersion reduction as the less obvious but far more performance related buff. I may have overlooked said post or not gotten to it yet, I am reading this thread from both ends as well as catching up on e-mail and skype so I'm in several places at once Tracking now though (at least I think) Advocated method = Combined reload speed and dispersion buffs (correct?) See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1414	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:38:00 - [93] - Quote Correct. Reload and Dispersion for gallente. Reload and Kick for caldari. Provides a bonus to every weapon and some performance to 'primary' weapons. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3377	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:49:00 - [94] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Honestly, even the Amarr bonus which works well generally speaking, falls a bit short in that it does nothing for their side arms. Don't ScPs have subtle heat buildup like the plasma rifle? I think I heard that it can seize up if fired repeatedly. Haven't run into that specifically though ans I haven't the skills for the ammo capacity required to make it work. If so, and the Amarr assault bonus applies to it, then that sounds useful enough to me. If true then yes that would cover the concept I'm talking about. I haven't heard of that before but sidearms are one of my least versed areas of Dust so it may be true and I just don't know about it, I couldn't honestly say. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 50	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:53:00 - [95] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Correct. Reload and Dispersion for gallente. Reload and Kick for caldari. Provides a bonus to every weapon and some performance to 'primary' weapons. It also maintains the parity of the Gal/Cal having similar, yet opposite statistics. Gals have high dispersion/low kick weapons, and the Cal have low dispersion/high kick weapons. Their assaults would have bonuses that make up for their weapon's major flaw, and it applies to all of their weapons (except NK and SL). Still a lot of overlap with the commando, but I think the commando is largely about carrying light weapons and having high damage. I can accept this. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4214	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:56:00 - [96] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Honestly, even the Amarr bonus which works well generally speaking, falls a bit short in that it does nothing for their side arms. Don't ScPs have subtle heat buildup like the plasma rifle? I think I heard that it can seize up if fired repeatedly. Haven't run into that specifically though ans I haven't the skills for the ammo capacity required to make it work. If so, and the Amarr assault bonus applies to it, then that sounds useful enough to me. They don't afaik. And that segues nicely into 2 questions I have. (Disclaimer: I only run Amarr assault to have fun with laz0rs. I have not used the Cal assault in a long long time, since I got my Templar BPO there was no need to use the Dragonfly assault anymore. Same with Gal. I used to use the AR all the time, like everyone, but not for a while now) 1)Gallente and Caldari have by far the most diverse collection of weapons in the game. I therefore donGÇÖt get why a bonus that does not help all of them is a major problem. Example: The Amarr assault bonus only helps TWO weapons (We only have 3, 4 if you count the now-useless AScR). ThatGÇÖs not a valid reason to not use a particular bonus. This is a minor point, but to keep this discussion on track it really should not be forgotten. 2)Why exactly do we have to buff the AR to the point that it would become a viable option to go up against an HMG in CQC? IMO, the point of the AR should be to destroy anyone using a different light weapon in CQC. HMG vs AR should be no contest as the assault is more mobile. One other thing, which I think is what morte was getting at: The RR is a dominant weapon, it doesnGÇÖt need a whole lot of help, unlike the AR. Why not GÇ£adjustGÇ¥ it to the point it becomes similar to the ScR (would still better than the LR) where it works OK on another suit, but if you really want to make it shine, you need to use the Cal assault? Meaning, increase the BASE charge up time, but with a Cal assault, the charge up time is still LOWER than it is now. Why is that such a horrible idea? I'm not trying to be an a$$ here, and I acknowlege I have nothing to gain or lose from this, but I'm just curious why these things are or are not part of the discussion. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1417	Posted - 2014.10.20 21:00:00 - [97] - Quote I'm against nerfing weapons just to give them buffs on certain suits, but I will agree that certain weapons need a bit of tweaking. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 197	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:22:00 - [98] - Quote Post on Rail Rifle *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18285	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:23:00 - [99] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lol and thats why you shouldn't skype with strange people on the net lolz. Did he/she convince you lol? ..Sigh.. Back to the topic: The goal should be to make each classes more unique instead of attempting to generalize them or attempt to make them over powered; It might even help if you Imagine the RR and CR in a balance state. Yeah I like how people weren't buying into arkena and kirks crap so rather than have an intelligent debate about the merits of such buffs we instead go directly to crying to the CPM member on Skype and now we have him honestly considering a incredibly unbalanced by design buff. Charming as always I see, MINA. How despicable of me to talk to a CPM member who asked for feedback. A disgusting effort to horribly unbalance all the things ever in my favour, by all accounts. Truly, it is outrageous that someone would dare put forward their opinion. Had I not gone for complete transparency and posted the entire conversation, you wouldn't even have known that I was relevant here. Clearly a shadowy and nefarious attempt to make something overpowered! Sarcasm aside, do you have a personal problem here? When did Kirk or I post something incendiary? Do you simply disagree with our opinions? If it's simply that you disagree, I suggest trying to find a more civil way of disagreeing in future. A simple 'I disagree' would have sufficed. If you feel the need to insult people merely because they don't share your opinion, perhaps you're not ready for civil discussion? If you have a problem with what I said to Cross, explain what it is, rather than bitching about me expressing my opinion. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 51	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:32:00 - [100] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lol and thats why you shouldn't skype with strange people on the net lolz. Did he/she convince you lol? ..Sigh.. Back to the topic: The goal should be to make each classes more unique instead of attempting to generalize them or attempt to make them over powered; It might even help if you Imagine the RR and CR in a balance state. Yeah I like how people weren't buying into arkena and kirks crap so rather than have an intelligent debate about the merits of such buffs we instead go directly to crying to the CPM member on Skype and now we have him honestly considering a incredibly unbalanced by design buff. Charming as always I see, MINA. How despicable of me to talk to a CPM member who asked for feedback. A disgusting effort to horribly unbalance all the things ever in my favour, by all accounts. Truly, it is outrageous that someone would dare put forward their opinion. Had I not gone for complete transparency and posted the entire conversation, you wouldn't even have known that I was relevant here. Clearly a shadowy and nefarious attempt to make something overpowered! Sarcasm aside, do you have a personal problem here? When did Kirk or I post something incendiary? Do you simply disagree with our opinions? If it's simply that you disagree, I suggest trying to find a more civil way of disagreeing in future. A simple 'I disagree' would have sufficed. If you feel the need to insult people merely because they don't share your opinion, perhaps you're not ready for civil discussion? If you have a problem with what I said to Cross, explain what it is, rather than bitching about me expressing my opinion. How about we stop the name calling and finger pointing on both sides (your above post is doing the same accusatory stuff you dislike) and keep this on topic. Personal stuff derails too many forum topics. You can send in-game PMs or exchange numbers to talk about personal issues. Or even start a new topic (not advised). This thread is going somewhere, and I for one would like to see continued discussion and useful input on things. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 146	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:39:00 - [101] - Quote It seems the thread has been derailed. I will take my leave. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3379	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:45:00 - [102] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Honestly, even the Amarr bonus which works well generally speaking, falls a bit short in that it does nothing for their side arms. Don't ScPs have subtle heat buildup like the plasma rifle? I think I heard that it can seize up if fired repeatedly. Haven't run into that specifically though ans I haven't the skills for the ammo capacity required to make it work. If so, and the Amarr assault bonus applies to it, then that sounds useful enough to me. They don't afaik. And that segues nicely into 2 questions I have. (Disclaimer: I only run Amarr assault to have fun with laz0rs. I have not used the Cal assault in a long long time, since I got my Templar BPO there was no need to use the Dragonfly assault anymore. Same with Gal. I used to use the AR all the time, like everyone, but not for a while now) 1)Gallente and Caldari have by far the most diverse collection of weapons in the game. I therefore donGÇÖt get why a bonus that does not help all of them is a major problem. Example: The Amarr assault bonus only helps TWO weapons (We only have 3, 4 if you count the now-useless AScR). ThatGÇÖs not a valid reason to not use a particular bonus. This is a minor point, but to keep this discussion on track it really should not be forgotten. 2)Why exactly do we have to buff the AR to the point that it would become a viable option to go up against an HMG in CQC? IMO, the point of the AR should be to destroy anyone using a different light weapon in CQC. HMG vs AR should be no contest as the assault is more mobile. One other thing, which I think is what morte was getting at: The RR is a dominant weapon, it doesnGÇÖt need a whole lot of help, unlike the AR. Why not GÇ£adjustGÇ¥ it to the point it becomes similar to the ScR (would still better than the LR) where it works OK on another suit, but if you really want to make it shine, you need to use the Cal assault? Meaning, increase the BASE charge up time, but with a Cal assault, the charge up time is still LOWER than it is now. Why is that such a horrible idea? I'm not trying to be an a$$ here, and I acknowlege I have nothing to gain or lose from this, but I'm just curious why these things are or are not part of the discussion. I'm curious about some more detailed discussion on the pros and cons of this^ Anyone care to wade in and provide some 'line by line' analysis? See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
hfderrtgvcd 920	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:49:00 - [103] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Honestly, even the Amarr bonus which works well generally speaking, falls a bit short in that it does nothing for their side arms. Don't ScPs have subtle heat buildup like the plasma rifle? I think I heard that it can seize up if fired repeatedly. Haven't run into that specifically though ans I haven't the skills for the ammo capacity required to make it work. If so, and the Amarr assault bonus applies to it, then that sounds useful enough to me. They don't afaik. And that segues nicely into 2 questions I have. (Disclaimer: I only run Amarr assault to have fun with laz0rs. I have not used the Cal assault in a long long time, since I got my Templar BPO there was no need to use the Dragonfly assault anymore. Same with Gal. I used to use the AR all the time, like everyone, but not for a while now) 1)Gallente and Caldari have by far the most diverse collection of weapons in the game. I therefore donGÇÖt get why a bonus that does not help all of them is a major problem. Example: The Amarr assault bonus only helps TWO weapons (We only have 3, 4 if you count the now-useless AScR). ThatGÇÖs not a valid reason to not use a particular bonus. This is a minor point, but to keep this discussion on track it really should not be forgotten. 2)Why exactly do we have to buff the AR to the point that it would become a viable option to go up against an HMG in CQC? IMO, the point of the AR should be to destroy anyone using a different light weapon in CQC. HMG vs AR should be no contest as the assault is more mobile. One other thing, which I think is what morte was getting at: The RR is a dominant weapon, it doesnGÇÖt need a whole lot of help, unlike the AR. Why not GÇ£adjustGÇ¥ it to the point it becomes similar to the ScR (would still better than the LR) where it works OK on another suit, but if you really want to make it shine, you need to use the Cal assault? Meaning, increase the BASE charge up time, but with a Cal assault, the charge up time is still LOWER than it is now. Why is that such a horrible idea? I'm not trying to be an a$$ here, and I acknowlege I have nothing to gain or lose from this, but I'm just curious why these things are or are not part of the discussion. I'm curious about some more detailed discussion on the pros and cons of this^ Anyone care to wade in and provide some 'line by line' analysis? I almost completely agree. Another thing is, if you ignore the bonuses, the gallente and caldari assault suits are far better than the amarr and minmatar. The bonus balances them out imo You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18286	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:57:00 - [104] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I feel largely that this is simply a perceptional bias - don't get me wrong, the amarr and minmatar bonuses are quite good but they're only perceived to be better than gallente and caldari bonuses because they are the only source of these bonuses. The gallente bonus in particular (now that we have a bit more information on how dispersion works) is UNBELIEVABLY powerful when moving and shooting it just isn't perceived to be that powerful because it's a 'non-visible' bonus (even with one level in min/amarr or cal suits you can see and feel the differences +rounds/lvl or slightly faster reload). The Gallente assault bonus is ineffective. Nobody has ever needed less recoil on an assault rifle. Or any of the other Gallente weapons, for that matter. It is only in a few cases that lower dispersion is useful. Lower dispersion is not useful for the assault, breach, or burst plasma rifles. The dispersion on them is entirely tight enough for any form of CQC already, especially on the breach - you cannot possibly need tighter hipfire on the breach. The only rifle it has some use on is the TAR, and even less so now than it did previously after the hipfire was tightened so significantly. The TAR hipfire is now quite happily up to the task of sometimes engaging targets CQC. The shotgun does not benefit because everything relies on the centre of the reticle, and recoil has certainly never been a problem for it. The ion pistol no longer needs the bonus to be mildly functional and is now an adequate weapon in its own right. Thus, the bonus does not give a significant benefit to any Gallente weapon. In comparison to this, we have the Amarr assault bonus, which has earth-shatteringly powerful effects for the SCR and LR, and the Minmatar assault bonus, which covers the main weakness of the CR and turns it into even more of an engine of destruction. How, exactly, can the hipfire bonus possibly be construed as 'UNBELIEVABLY POWERFUL'? Quote: I've spoken at length before about how in other games 'non-visible' bonuses almost have to reach the point of being overpowered before they end up being valued by players in them The bonus is not spurned because it is not very visible, it is spurned because it is ineffective. Quote: I strongly feel that any bonus to the assault suit should be 'performance' related rather than buffs to straight killing power (like damage, rate of fire, or range which affects how well you're able to project DPS) and for the most part all of the races currently fit that design value with a bit of minor tweaking here and there. To go off on a small tangent, it still seems like a lot of players want to push outright for direct buffs to damage (or ability to project damage) on gallente suits which I think is potentially very dangerous to overall balance and game health as it breaks the standard currently set by assaults. Assaults shouldn't be more deadly with their weapons because they always in every situation do more damage than any player who isn't an assault, they should be more 'deadly' simply because their weapon still functions well the longer an engagement drags on, with DPS / Range / RoF buffs a suit holding them becomes more deadly from second 1 of an engagement. It's been raised to me that "If this were true commando's would be the best suits with their weapons" and I can say from experience they are unless an assault is capable of getting more damage than them by fitting damage mods (most aren't) How do you define 'performance'? The Amarr bonus certainly translates very well into actual killing power - the Amarr assault allows you to reliably use the SCR charged shot in vollies without overheating, which gives an absolutely massive performance hike over the unbonused form. That gives a significant advantage in killing power. Being able to fire for longer with the LR directly translates into more DPS. That's the entire function of the weapon - the LR gets up to terrifying levels of DPS as a direct result of the bonus. Should the Amarr bonus be changed because it doesn't fit into that neat idea? I certainly think not - it's a well-loved and appropriate bonus - but by this reasoning, it does not fit the assault class. Ability to project DPS? That is, apparently, the purpose of the present Gallente bonus - the only advantage tighter hipfire can possibly give is an increase in the ability to apply damage. I'm curious as to why you advocate not having such bonuses in the assault lineup but support the current iteration in the same breath. Range does not make a suit more deadly from the first moment of an engagement, it merely increases the versatility of the weapon. If assaults should be 'more deadly because their weapon still functions well the longer an engagement drags on', then the Gallente bonus again does not fit in. Unlike the other bonuses, it has no effect on either DPS or sustained DPS. As for commandos being the best with their weapons... Really? You say that it only holds true if assaults cannot damage mod past the bonus and that most can't, but... Most can. Both the Amarr and Gallente commandos will be outperformed in terms of raw damage by the equivalent assaults because both assaults can damage mod much more heavily than the commandos. Additionally, the Amarr assault is specifically favoured over the commando for its beneficial effects. If you ask the the LR aficionados whether they would rather use the assault or the commando, they will answer the commando. I guarantee you that the winner of the LR officer weapon used an Amarr assault simply because the Amarr assault is much more damaging with the LR. The only case in which this can be held to be correct is perhaps the Caldari commando and the sniper rifle - this unique instance due to the importance of alpha in the sniper role. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18287	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:08:00 - [105] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: 1)Gallente and Caldari have by far the most diverse collection of weapons in the game. I therefore donGÇÖt get why a bonus that does not help all of them is a major problem. Example: The Amarr assault bonus only helps TWO weapons (We only have 3, 4 if you count the now-useless AScR). ThatGÇÖs not a valid reason to not use a particular bonus. This is a minor point, but to keep this discussion on track it really should not be forgotten. I don't disagree. However, the current Gallente bonus gives only marginal benefits to one, perhaps two, of the eight Gallente weapons. The Amarr bonus gives huge benefits to half of the Amarrian lineup. When the bonus is ineffective and ought to be changed anyway, would it not be better to allow more weapon choice? Quote: 2)Why exactly do we have to buff the AR to the point that it would become a viable option to go up against an HMG in CQC? IMO, the point of the AR should be to destroy anyone using a different light weapon in CQC. HMG vs AR should be no contest as the assault is more mobile. I don't think the AR should be able to 1v1 heavies head on in CQC. I think that it should have options to deal with heavies, though. Presently the range on the AR forces the engagement into HMG range, where, naturally, the HMG wins. Rather than give the AR a bonus to compete directly with the HMG (which I feel it should not do) I feel that it should take a more roundabout route to victory. Your thought that the assault mobility should be important is one of the many reasons I favour a range bonus - it makes that mobility into a real advantage. If you exclusively want something to dominate CQC, you pick a heavy. Being able to outrange a heavy while still maintaining the status quo of outDPSing the other light weapons but being outranged by them improves the assault's weapon performance to a stage where it is seriously worth selection in its own role. Quote: One other thing, which I think is what morte was getting at: The RR is a dominant weapon, it doesnGÇÖt need a whole lot of help, unlike the AR. Why not GÇ£adjustGÇ¥ it to the point it becomes similar to the ScR (would still better than the LR) where it works OK on another suit, but if you really want to make it shine, you need to use the Cal assault? Meaning, increase the BASE charge up time, but with a Cal assault, the charge up time is still LOWER than it is now. Why is that such a horrible idea? I'm not trying to be an a$$ here, and I acknowlege I have nothing to gain or lose from this, but I'm just curious why these things are or are not part of the discussion. This idea of having weapons work OK on unbonused suits but 'really shine' on the bonused suits is exactly what I want from the assault bonuses. I'm not a fan of mucking about with the base stats of the weapons to shoehorn them into the assaults, though. Rattati hinted that he doesn't like RRs killing in CQC, though, so perhaps something will happen along those lines. You're not being an ass at all, these are productive thoughts. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18290	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:20:00 - [106] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: I haz cal assault 5 I like to use "regen tanking" regulators, Rechargers and energizers I use pretty all the different caldari weapons, my assault mainly uses assault rails, knives ,bolt pistols and magsecs As for an additional weapon based bonus; 3-5% recoil reduction, fully skilled rail weapons(5% kick reduction lvl) along with reload skills (3% lvl) become very potent in a proto assaults hands, even on std or adv frames as long as you have the skills trained The recoil reduction allows the more trained operative to be able to sustain fire more accurately for longer durations. The other one for the dropsuit I really like 2-4% efficacy of shield regulators,energizers,recharges Incentivises regen tanking more, allowing u to edge optimal ranges and fight in bursts between cover Negatives of these are that they are already skills available, so some things may get out of hand. However neither bonus effects the assaults hp, range, dmg per shot, ROF That's my thoughts so far, I hope it helps. Il post any further ideas Having bonuses to tank rather than weaponry is an idea I quite like! On the weapon bonus: Kick reduction is going to be far more useful on the Calassault than it is on the Galassault because rail weapons actually have a noticeable kick. I don't think there's any reason that it should be anything less than a 5% per level bonus, though. Incentivising regen tanking on shields is good. 2-4% efficacy on regen tanking modules is pretty cool, but I don't think 2-4% is enough, honestly. A 10% increase to the effect of regulators won't shave even a single tick off shield regen delays in most, if not all cases and jumping from things like 50 HP/s to 53 HP/s isn't much to write home about either. Give it more than that, 5% minimum. I'd suggest 7.5%. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Cass Caul 1240	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:24:00 - [107] - Quote Basically, it comes down to this: Minmatar Assault add a direct bonus to the clip size of their weapons Amarr Assault adds an indirect bonus to the clip size because of the reduction to heat build up Gallente Assault has a redundant bonus that has the same effect as the Sharpshooter skill which both the AR and IP have, while it could be thought of as detrimental to the shotgun and irrelevant to the Plasma Cannon Caldari Assault has a bonus that is just less effective due to (1) it's the same as the commando skill only less effective and (2) using a weapon at range means reload time is less important. Option 1: Reverse the bonuses. Rapid reload skill is much more appropriate for CQC than it is at range. This game says "lol **** aiming" and has a strong bias towards hip-fire. Being at a longer range with reduced spread and kick will be more appropriate for the Cadari Option 2: Make it the same as the others. Increase the ammo per clip to Gal and Cal weapons. Option 3: Buff the Scrambler Rifle so you don't have to use an Amarr Assault suit to actually have a good time with it. Then give each of the 4 Racial Assault suits bonuses that emphasize a play-style rather than racial weapons. Let weapon bonuses be a Commando thing. Give the Gallente something that enhances their CQC abilities, such as a bonus to any modules that add repair values (Gallente are active armor tankers, a bonus to reactive plates is both in-line with New Edan and doesn't try and shove a speficic weapon down the players throat. Give the Caldari something that enhances ranged play, like a bonus to recharge, regulator, or energizers so they can get in and out of fire. Active Shield tanking bonuses are great. Again, it doesn't shove a limiting choice on the suit of just 1 type of weapon. Give the Amarr Assault a reduction to armor plate movement penalties. They're about passive tanking so make them better at it. And the Minmatar are about hit-and-run. A bonus to Biotics would be great. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1418	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:30:00 - [108] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Charming as always I see, MINA. How despicable of me to talk to a CPM member who asked for feedback. A disgusting effort to horribly unbalance all the things ever in my favour, by all accounts. Truly, it is outrageous that someone would dare put forward their opinion. Had I not gone for complete transparency and posted the entire conversation, you wouldn't even have known that I was relevant here. Clearly a shadowy and nefarious attempt to make something overpowered! Sarcasm aside, do you have a personal problem here? When did Kirk or I post something incendiary? Do you simply disagree with our opinions? If it's simply that you disagree, I suggest trying to find a more civil way of disagreeing in future. A simple 'I disagree' would have sufficed. If you feel the need to insult people merely because they don't share your opinion, perhaps you're not ready for civil discussion? If you have a problem with what I said to Cross, explain what it is, rather than bitching about me expressing my opinion. In the some four or five threads that have been raised about this issue, you have continued to completely ignore any points that don't suit your agenda. Any information that disagrees with your perceptional bias is wrong - no matter how factually correct it is. To be perfectly honest, yes I do have some issues with you being the first to run to the CPM to get your 'side' in without anyone there to point out where your arguments contain logical or factual fallacies. If you want to talk about insulting people, pot meet kettle, you're black. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 444	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:34:00 - [109] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross This would make the Charge Sniper so OP it renders all sniper rifles useless. Besides the real drawback of rail weaponry is kick and its inability to sustain fire in a accurate manner. Not charge up time imho EDIT All caldari suits proto. First proto suit was assault I have not sniped in any meaningful way since beta, please elaborate. o7 Charge sniper does the highest base damage of all sniper rifles (excluding officer). Now imagine with the charge up time reduction everybody and their mothers will be running Charge snipers on Cal assaults, because it will do the most damage the fastest. What sniper will you use, not the ishukone ;) Abscence of meaningful sniping is because of poor map design. Sniper rifle damage the way it is now is fine. I just don't want to see redline snipers abuse my suit with a charge sniper rifle, because when we face the facts redline sniping is still a issue and the cries for nerfs are always around the corner. Assault suits are there to attack and not pigeon wire-ing (I mean this in a less dickish way than I wrote it lol)
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 444	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:37:00 - [110] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Charming as always I see, MINA. How despicable of me to talk to a CPM member who asked for feedback. A disgusting effort to horribly unbalance all the things ever in my favour, by all accounts. Truly, it is outrageous that someone would dare put forward their opinion. Had I not gone for complete transparency and posted the entire conversation, you wouldn't even have known that I was relevant here. Clearly a shadowy and nefarious attempt to make something overpowered! Sarcasm aside, do you have a personal problem here? When did Kirk or I post something incendiary? Do you simply disagree with our opinions? If it's simply that you disagree, I suggest trying to find a more civil way of disagreeing in future. A simple 'I disagree' would have sufficed. If you feel the need to insult people merely because they don't share your opinion, perhaps you're not ready for civil discussion? If you have a problem with what I said to Cross, explain what it is, rather than bitching about me expressing my opinion. In the some four or five threads that have been raised about this issue, you have continued to completely ignore any points that don't suit your agenda. Any information that disagrees with your perceptional bias is wrong - no matter how factually correct it is. To be perfectly honest, yes I do have some issues with you being the first to run to the CPM to get your 'side' in without anyone there to point out where your arguments contain logical or factual fallacies. If you want to talk about insulting people, pot meet kettle, you're black. To be perfectly honest he kept the attention going to this subject with threads (change to BOTH cal and gal bonus). What did you do?

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13687	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:43:00 - [111] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Middas Betancore wrote: I haz cal assault 5 I like to use "regen tanking" regulators, Rechargers and energizers I use pretty all the different caldari weapons, my assault mainly uses assault rails, knives ,bolt pistols and magsecs As for an additional weapon based bonus; 3-5% recoil reduction, fully skilled rail weapons(5% kick reduction lvl) along with reload skills (3% lvl) become very potent in a proto assaults hands, even on std or adv frames as long as you have the skills trained The recoil reduction allows the more trained operative to be able to sustain fire more accurately for longer durations. The other one for the dropsuit I really like 2-4% efficacy of shield regulators,energizers,recharges Incentivises regen tanking more, allowing u to edge optimal ranges and fight in bursts between cover Negatives of these are that they are already skills available, so some things may get out of hand. However neither bonus effects the assaults hp, range, dmg per shot, ROF That's my thoughts so far, I hope it helps. Il post any further ideas Having bonuses to tank rather than weaponry is an idea I quite like! On the weapon bonus: Kick reduction is going to be far more useful on the Calassault than it is on the Galassault because rail weapons actually have a noticeable kick. I don't think there's any reason that it should be anything less than a 5% per level bonus, though. Incentivising regen tanking on shields is good. 2-4% efficacy on regen tanking modules is pretty cool, but I don't think 2-4% is enough, honestly. A 10% increase to the effect of regulators won't shave even a single tick off shield regen delays in most, if not all cases and jumping from things like 50 HP/s to 53 HP/s isn't much to write home about either. Give it more than that, 5% minimum. I'd suggest 7.5%. This could work very well. Would utterly cripple my enjoyment of the ScR but if it allows for uniform bonuses across all racial assault suits then I suppose its worth giving up. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1418	Posted - 2014.10.20 23:50:00 - [112] - Quote I had to prune a little bit simply due to quotation limits. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The Gallente assault bonus is ineffective. Nobody has ever needed less recoil on an assault rifle. Or any of the other Gallente weapons, for that matter. It is only in a few cases that lower dispersion is useful. Lower dispersion is not useful for the assault, breach, or burst plasma rifles. The dispersion on them is entirely tight enough for any form of CQC already, especially on the breach - you cannot possibly need tighter hipfire on the breach. The only rifle it has some use on is the TAR, and even less so now than it did previously after the hipfire was tightened so significantly. The TAR hipfire is now quite happily up to the task of sometimes engaging targets CQC. The shotgun does not benefit because everything relies on the centre of the reticle, and recoil has certainly never been a problem for it. The ion pistol no longer needs the bonus to be mildly functional and is now an adequate weapon in its own right. Thus, the bonus does not give a significant benefit to any Gallente weapon. In comparison to this, we have the Amarr assault bonus, which has earth-shatteringly powerful effects for the SCR and LR, and the Minmatar assault bonus, which covers the main weakness of the CR and turns it into even more of an engine of destruction. How, exactly, can the hipfire bonus possibly be construed as 'UNBELIEVABLY POWERFUL'? This is mostly your opinion presented as though it were fact, not arguments based on solid numbers or hard evidence. Also try moving when shooting, that's really what the gallente bonus is for. Essentially what you've said here boils down to a 'no true scottsman' fallacy and/or an appeal to emotion. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The bonus is not spurned because it is not very visible, it is spurned because it is ineffective. Prove it. Please, I'd love to see you try. This is refutation without any actual information provided. FYI I have an alt with gallente assault 5 and I can tell you from experience that it is an effective bonus. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: How do you define 'performance'? The Amarr bonus certainly translates very well into actual killing power - the Amarr assault allows you to reliably use the SCR charged shot in vollies without overheating, which gives an absolutely massive performance hike over the unbonused form. That gives a significant advantage in killing power. I'll be a bit more specific here and make it a statement of 'durational performance'. Lasers and projectiles shoot more bullets, plasma doesn't build as much dispersion over time. quote=Arkena Wyrnspire]Ability to project DPS? That is, apparently, the purpose of the present Gallente bonus - the only advantage tighter hipfire can possibly give is an increase in the ability to apply damage. I'm curious as to why you advocate not having such bonuses in the assault lineup but support the current iteration in the same breath. Range does not make a suit more deadly from the first moment of an engagement, it merely increases the versatility of the weapon. If assaults should be 'more deadly because their weapon still functions well the longer an engagement drags on', then the Gallente bonus again does not fit in. Unlike the other bonuses, it has no effect on either DPS or sustained DPS. [/quote] Maybe you should read the sticky on how dispersion works, it's in general discussion, dispersion builds over time when firing which makes the dispersion reduction a durational performance bonus and a particularly good one when moving and shooting like people often do when strafing around in cqc fights. Also range does make a suit more deadly from the first moment of an engagement when there is a difference in ranges - how often do you charge across open terrain to get at the rail rifle user who noticed you the same time you noticed him? Assuming all other things being equal, the person with higher range is immediately more threatening in a fight. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: As for commandos being the best with their weapons... Really? You say that it only holds true if assaults cannot damage mod past the bonus and that most can't, but... Most can. Both the Amarr and Gallente commandos will be outperformed in terms of raw damage by the equivalent assaults because both assaults can damage mod much more heavily than the commandos. Additionally, the Amarr assault is specifically favoured over the commando for its beneficial effects. If you ask the the LR aficionados whether they would rather use the assault or the commando, they will answer the commando. I guarantee you that the winner of the LR officer weapon used an Amarr assault simply because the Amarr assault is much more damaging with the LR. The only case in which this can be held to be correct is perhaps the Caldari commando and the sniper rifle - this unique instance due to the importance of alpha in the sniper role. Before the tweaks to damage mods commandos were easily the most damaging. Also do happen to know a few laser rifle aficionados, including one who competed in the officer weapon event and placed third with 2751 kills - they choose the assault suit for durational performance, however when damage mods were still at 7% for complex a commando always beat an assault in damage over 60 shots, in situations where the assault and commando were shooting at each other and had similar hp values the commando would always win, even though the assaults extra 20 shots accounted for more total damage over time. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18294	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:09:00 - [113] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: In the some four or five threads that have been raised about this issue, you have continued to completely ignore any points that don't suit your agenda. Any information that disagrees with your perceptional bias is wrong - no matter how factually correct it is. In four or five threads you have hounded me and perpetually complained about my arguments being opinionated and decried my posts as being biased while declaring your own posts as gospel truth. Hypocrisy. You didn't even try to address any of my arguments. You just went straight for the ad hominem. Quote: To be perfectly honest, yes I do have some issues with you being the first to run to the CPM to get your 'side' in without anyone there to point out where your arguments contain logical or factual fallacies. If you want to talk about insulting people, pot meet kettle, you're black. Right, I posted the entire conversation because I didn't want anyone to disagree with me. This is a direct set of quotes from the skype conversation: [20/10/2014 19:50:45] Arkena Wyrnspire: May I paste some of the content of this discussion into your thread for others to discuss? [20/10/2014 19:51:26] Cross Atu: I was just about to do a bit of a write up in there on that very theme ;) [20/10/2014 19:52:06] Arkena Wyrnspire: Cool. I'll post it, then, and if you still want to summarise that'd still be helpful. and then I post the entire conversation in a completely transparent manner In what way can that possibly suggest I did it because I wanted to secretly influence Cross? True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: --snip discussion of tanking bonuses on assaults- This could work very well. Would utterly cripple my enjoyment of the ScR but if it allows for uniform bonuses across all racial assault suits then I suppose its worth giving up. Why would that be needed? I see no problem with the Amarr assault keeping its bonus. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2065	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:51:00 - [114] - Quote Hello there Cross, been a while. I'm not actively playing Dust right now, I can't stomach all of the ewar shenanigans with my current abominable internet speeds, but I have ever been for balancing Dust so I feel the need to toss out a couple of suggestions that may not be apparent to others. Suggestion for Gallente the Assault:Reduce AR Mass Basically you increase the strafe speed of the Gallente Assault by a fraction per level while you are ADS. The Gallente weapons are mainly CQC brawler weapons, it is true, but their ability to perform at a medium range is still valid. Given that all of the other rifles have better range, giving the Gallente Assault the ability to strafe better when fighting them back seems an obvious choice to me. They are ADS in order to hit you accurately, you are ADS in order to hit them accurately (albeit for reduced damage most likely depending on the exact range of the clash), so in order to reduce the AR's weakness of having a damage reduction due to it's range restrictions in such firefights, increase the Gallente Assault's ability to find cover and dodge incoming fire during such engagements. With this bonus the Gallente Assault can properly compete when dealing with ranged targets, and I feel that is the best bonus you can possibly give to the Gallente Assault. Especially considering their main EHP source is in their low slots and if if they tank speed reducing mods they will need better strafe, and if they tank speed saving mods they need to conserve EHP. This helps them do both when dealing with ranged enemies, their nemesis. Suggestion for the Caldari Assault:Stationary Recoil Reduction The RR is balanced (supposedly, but I'll leave that debate for those still playing) by it's recoil and small clip size. Reducing it's recoil is a terrible idea in general because it takes away the one balancing factor that makes a real difference in 1v1 fights (a single clip is sufficient to kill pretty much anyone at longer ranges than any hand held weapon short of a sniper). But think about it for a minute. The only things you can really do to truly improve a RR in an area that it doesn't already surpass other weapons are: a) increase it's DPS (big no-no) b) increase it's clip size (another big no-no since that would marginalize the Minmatar's bonus) c) reduce it's charge time (which barely exists as it is) d) reduce it's recoil (which is half of what makes it "balanced") "But wait, didn't you just suggest a recoil reduction?" Yes. Yes I did. A stationary recoil reduction. You see, the rail rifle is a range weapon that should be used at a range as much as possible. And when possible, outside the optimal of other rifles. Which means by giving a buff that supports that play style, you are encouraging the Caldari Assault to become a specialized assault class, as we want it to be to fall in line with the other classes. When crouched and stationary *and* ADS the Caldari Assault with a RR should be extremely accurate. Of course this makes the suit highly vulnerable to anyone near or behind it, but an ungodly terror to anyone in it's sights. When standing and ADS it should still be fairly accurate, as long as it is not moving. This makes the Caldari Assault a long-range DPS/accuracy monster and gives it it's own niche' on the battlefield alongside the other assaults without giving it an ability that is either unnecessarily OP or useless. Just some original ideas I thought I'd throw your way, take them as you will. As for what I play, you know I am a jack of all trades and play as everything. But my main playstyle can be seen in my sig. Best of luck my friend, and to all of the Devs and CPM. And to all of you Dustbunnies out there still playing, godspeed. o7 And kittens. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8048	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:52:00 - [115] - Quote Please just ignore MINA he constantly derails conversations and picks out two lines of phrasing that he misinterpreted. He has a personal vendetta against us and I honestly don't know what his deal is when we are both trying to figure Caldari and Gallente but that doesn't matter we all know what the real problem is. Ignore him until he can act civil and not have his weird personal biases against us. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Boot Booter Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 981	Posted - 2014.10.21 01:08:00 - [116] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Brain Storming wrote: Gal Assault +5% per level to OPTIMAL weapon range with Gal LWs (this would not alter any absolute range values only increase the portion of the weapons current range profile which is considered within its optimal range). Cal 10% per level reduction to charge time of Caldari weapons - This would include value for the MagSec - This would be a substantial buff to the charged sniper, but only applies to the assault suit so would create another sub-set of possible sniper play (numbers/degrees would need some evaluation) Alternate Cal suggestion X% improvement to hipfire per level - This would make tac sniping more viable - This is intended to happen hand in hand with INCREASED hipfire kick (or dispersion) on the RR to reduce its general CQC application (this is a change that is already being looked into as RR is not supposed to be a strong CQC weapon) - This would allow another method to touch up the Bolt Pistol by increasing its base spread while still allowing for high levels of function at max assault skills Current roughed out idea(s) from conversations so far (I'm still catching up on the thread since I posted it right before I left for work yesterday). I am interesting in perceptions on this (and of course feel free to continue to put forth other ideas). Cheers, Cross I am heavily against an optimal range buff on the assault suit, as that directly affects the ability to project DPS. I can sympathize with the desire for a range buff on the assault suit, because currently plays within the same schoolyard as the vastly the bully called the HMG, but I feel that this should be a buff to the default value of the weapon itself, rather than something slapped on to the suit to compensate a subpar weapon. I do not feel that any assault should be outright better from a damage or ability to project damage than a non-assault, any damage or range buffs throw this out the window completely. I am all for the assault rifle being in a healthy place, so long as that healthy isn't solely relegated to the hands of the assault. If it were to be relegated solely to the assault I feel that it could have an incredible negative effect on the game as a whole. I think the 'template' for assaults should be more akin to the Amarr assault, in that the bonus helps make a decent weapon much better by slightly compensating for a drawback, or accentuating a strength. With the Minmatar the bonus is quite good (though I absolutely despise it for being relatively unoriginal and not applying to 50% of minmatar weapons). In the Caldari case while we are happy with the reload speed, a reduction of spoolup is not a meaningful bonus as spoolup is already fairly negligible, kick reduction on the other hand makes the weapons perform much better the longer a fight goes on (which ties back in to the template set by the Amarr and Minmatar). In the case of the Gallente there are a few downsides to their weapons that aren't necessarily universal or if they are, are points of design balance. Starting with the Assault rifle: -Low range (should be buffed on the rifle itself) -Low total ammo carried (on the standard / burst variants) -Low magazine capacity (on the tactical / breach variants - offset by having some of the best damage/magazine) -Relatively high dispersion on most models (compounded with movement, but compensated for by current assault skill). Ion Pistol - Low range - high dispersion - 'low' total ammo - Poor charged shot functionality Designed mostly to be this way Shotgun -Low range -Low total ammo carried -high dispersion (compounded when moving) -Lengthy reloads Plasma Cannon -Low total ammo. -Long reload time. -not a hitscan weapon -1 shot wonder. The only real 'feelgood' universal buff that can be given is to gallente assault that benefits all weapons is reload speed, and then the next buff should target the most common factor of non-specialist weapons which is dispersion while moving, kick is fairly negligible or non-existant on most gallente weapons. My proposal is a 5% buff to reload speed and a 5% reduction to hipfire dispersion. This right here. Caldari - 5% bonus to rail reload and 5% rail kick reduction per level. Allows cal to be very efficient and sustain damage from long range Gallente - 5% blaster dispersion reduction and 5% reload speed bonus to blasters per level Fits into CQC brawling. Accurate hip fire, pop behind cover with high armor reps and quick reloads. These bonuses don't affect the damage vs range balancing that Rattati worked hard for and make just too much sense. Rail charge time is also not favorable for cal because it affects dps of bolt and charge sniper. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6752	Posted - 2014.10.21 01:10:00 - [117] - Quote While the concepts of increased range for the Caldari and increased damage for the Gallente are obvious choices (and rightfully so, given their general nature) I would much rather see something unique and out-of-the-box. IMO, you could potentially 'soft-bonus' the damage output of the Gallente by - rather than directly increasing damage of hybrid weapons - give a fitting reduction or efficiency increase on Damage Mods. There's really not that much useful in the high-slots for Gallente so it's sort of a go-to choice anyway for Gallente Assault players anyway. Now, the Caldari Assault on the other hand, is a tough one. Mostly because there genuinely is -nothing- that you can give to the Caldari's weaponry which would honestly benefit their style other than range. I do, however, feel that this would be a golden opportunity to reduce the Rail Rifle's effectiveness in close range and at the same time make it a ****in' power house in the Caldari Assault's hands (more-so then it already is). How I would personally do that is by applying the same mechanisms that are applied to the Laser Rifle in that it has reduced damage efficiency up to a certain range (say 30m or something) and then revert that effect with the Caldari Assault's bonus in both directions. (NOTE: I can't remember the RR's range by heart so, just throwing out numbers here) So, if it's optimal range is 30 - 70 meters, and one level of the Cal Assault gave a 5% bonus... It'd be 22.5 - 87.5 meters optimal range at level 5. But then again there does seem to be some aversion to changing the mechanics on the weapon solely to compliment a future change on the assault, so I dunno. Just spit-balling here. EDIT: In my fantasy world though, I'd just modify the code on the damage mods to make a 'range increase' module for the low-slots and just apply an efficiency bonus to them for the Caldari Assault. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13690	Posted - 2014.10.21 01:11:00 - [118] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: This right here. Caldari - 5% bonus to rail reload and 5% rail kick reduction per level. Allows cal to be very efficient and sustain damage from long range Gallente - 5% blaster dispersion reduction and 5% reload speed bonus to blasters per level Fits into CQC brawling. Accurate hip fire, pop behind cover with high armor reps and quick reloads. These bonuses don't affect the damage vs range balancing that Rattati worked hard for and make just too much sense. Rail charge time is also not favorable for cal because it affects dps of bolt and charge sniper. Literally no reason Cal or Gal Should receive buffs to two weapons statistics at a 5% modifier. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6752	Posted - 2014.10.21 01:12:00 - [119] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: This right here. Caldari - 5% bonus to rail reload and 5% rail kick reduction per level. Allows cal to be very efficient and sustain damage from long range Gallente - 5% blaster dispersion reduction and 5% reload speed bonus to blasters per level Fits into CQC brawling. Accurate hip fire, pop behind cover with high armor reps and quick reloads. These bonuses don't affect the damage vs range balancing that Rattati worked hard for and make just too much sense. Rail charge time is also not favorable for cal because it affects dps of bolt and charge sniper. Literally no reason Cal or Gal Should receive buffs to two weapons statistics at a 5% modifier. Let alone contend with the Commando's reload speed bonus { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 600	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:08:00 - [120] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: This right here. Caldari - 5% bonus to rail reload and 5% rail kick reduction per level. Allows cal to be very efficient and sustain damage from long range Gallente - 5% blaster dispersion reduction and 5% reload speed bonus to blasters per level Fits into CQC brawling. Accurate hip fire, pop behind cover with high armor reps and quick reloads. These bonuses don't affect the damage vs range balancing that Rattati worked hard for and make just too much sense. Rail charge time is also not favorable for cal because it affects dps of bolt and charge sniper. Literally no reason Cal or Gal Should receive buffs to two weapons statistics at a 5% modifier. 5 and 3? I like the reload bonus and a reduced kick bonus would help at range.

BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 96	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:15:00 - [121] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I have for quite some time now been hearing that while the Amarr and Minmitar racial bonuses are useful the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are a bit lack luster. As such input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Gal and Cal racial bonuses, and how to polish the experience and utility of same. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs. I've heard the opposite. Gallente Assaults like the dispersion (some what) and Caldari find the reload speed to be very similar to how they're suppose to be played already. Ducking in and out of battle to allow shields to recharge/reload weapons. Honestly as a moderately skilled assault player I have to say that the Minmatar is the least useful. A 25% buff to weapon clip size is nothing. That means like 15 rounds for CR's or 20 rounds for an SMG. Very few times have I ever found that particularly useful. Would actually prefer the Gallente Bonus of decreasing hip fire. The CR's and Blasters both share the common trait of being meant for DPS kings of CQC. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2922	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:18:00 - [122] - Quote Since amarr and minmatar are mirrored in this case, lets come up with an interesting bonus that would mirror between gallente and caldari assault. The current bonuses does not increase damage per clip (as the well thought through amarr and minmatar bonuses do). Example: Gallente should get a RoF bonus in order to make it the best CQC rifle suit in game, Caldari should get a reduction in damage fall off (damage bonus, but not dmg%) both increase damage per clip (just as minmatar and amarr). Both of these bonuses increase damage per clip, and are statistics that you cannot find on modules and other suits, which make them unique. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3786	Posted - 2014.10.21 11:59:00 - [123] - Quote Give assaults +1 grenade. Make the assault suit skill reduce grenade timers by .2 sec/level. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8056	Posted - 2014.10.21 15:37:00 - [124] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Give assaults +1 grenade. Make the assault suit skill reduce grenade timers by .2 sec/level. some people depend on that timer CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18320	Posted - 2014.10.21 15:44:00 - [125] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Give assaults +1 grenade. Make the assault suit skill reduce grenade timers by .2 sec/level. some people depend on that timer tries to cook core locus grenade awkwardly explodes You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3800	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:19:00 - [126] - Quote nades used to be deadly. now they're a joke. I never get hit with them in my fatsuit anymore. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 150	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:31:00 - [127] - Quote As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 160	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:31:00 - [128] - Quote As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1420	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:33:00 - [129] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. Assaults already have the highest number of slots in the game, they don't need to carry around excessive amounts of equipment either. Give assaults more equipment and you immediately make logi's less desireable. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4225	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:40:00 - [130] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. Assaults already have the highest number of slots in the game, they don't need to carry around excessive amounts of equipment either. Give assaults more equipment and you immediately make logi's less desireable. So much this. The last thing this game needs is further proliferation of multiple EQ slot suits. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 97	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:11:00 - [131] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. Assaults already have the highest number of slots in the game, they don't need to carry around excessive amounts of equipment either. Give assaults more equipment and you immediately make logi's less desireable. So much this. The last thing this game needs is further proliferation of multiple EQ slot suits. Didn't they say that they were going to make all the logis at prototype level have 4 equipment slots? what ever happened to that? Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4225	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:56:00 - [132] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. Assaults already have the highest number of slots in the game, they don't need to carry around excessive amounts of equipment either. Give assaults more equipment and you immediately make logi's less desireable. So much this. The last thing this game needs is further proliferation of multiple EQ slot suits. Didn't they say that they were going to make all the logis at prototype level have 4 equipment slots? what ever happened to that? Rattati does not care about logi suits; thinks they are fine. Most logical explanation. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3405	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:43:00 - [133] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: As for a blanketed buff another equipment slot would allow us to use our pointlessly high CPU/PG. Assaults already have the highest number of slots in the game, they don't need to carry around excessive amounts of equipment either. Give assaults more equipment and you immediately make logi's less desireable. So much this. The last thing this game needs is further proliferation of multiple EQ slot suits. Didn't they say that they were going to make all the logis at prototype level have 4 equipment slots? what ever happened to that? Rattati does not care about logi suits; thinks they are fine. Most logical explanation. Not sure if serious or joking See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3843	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:49:00 - [134] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Not sure if serious or joking Neither. aggravation and provocation. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4230	Posted - 2014.10.22 15:15:00 - [135] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Not sure if serious or joking Neither. aggravation and provocation. Have yet to hear anything to the contrary; was told in discussions of prior hotfixes that the other things were "higher priority." So, I have drawn the logical conclusion based on my own personal biases. 1.9 will apparently trump this as well, though I completely agree with that, I'll live with my "relic of 1.7" suit for a little longer to get a buyback option and other highly necessary fixes. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3409	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:13:00 - [136] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Not sure if serious or joking Neither. aggravation and provocation. Have yet to hear anything to the contrary; was told in discussions of prior hotfixes that the other things were "higher priority." So, I have drawn the logical conclusion based on my own personal biases. 1.9 will apparently trump this as well, though I completely agree with that, I'll live with my "relic of 1.7" suit for a little longer to get a buyback option and other highly necessary fixes. Thread. Of course nothing can be totally counted on until it actually happens - such is life - but I have been given no reason to believe at this point that the process on going in the linked thread, the current thread, or the Commando thread, is/will be dismissed. I'm certain not all of the proposals I bring to CCP will be adopted wholesale, but even that seems more likely than any of them being outright dismissed. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4233	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:31:00 - [137] - Quote I know YOU care, Cross. It's Rattati I'm not so sure about. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3412	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:57:00 - [138] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I know YOU care, Cross. It's Rattati I'm not so sure about. Fair point. And while I can neither 100% guarantee results, nor openly divulge NDA covered things (like internal conversations with Devs) I can say that I have found CCP Rattati to be very reasonable to work with and generally very open to discussion and new ideas. The level and willingness with which he and LogiBro communicate both with the community and CPM has substantially increased my overall outlook on the future of Dust. Now, I do not expect anyone to simply take my word for it 'sight unseen' and since I cannot provide the aforementioned internal communications I have little beyond my impression to provide at this point, so some continued skepticism seems rational to me but I will say that I feel the odds of an improvement - with regards to each of the CPM threads I'm managing - are pretty positive. Slower than we might like? Sure. But I honestly don't think any of the aforementioned is being ignored. Just my impressions, for what it's worth. o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1373	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:02:00 - [139] - Quote Ck.0 Assault Removing the reload bonus for a reduction to charge time is a nerf... reducing the .25 sec charge isn't exactly needed in my opinion .... The reload benefits after investing in Rapid Reload skills are why I got the suit to L5 I would feel pretty robbed if I lost that to something like Charge Reduction... Reducing kick would make the Rail weapons even more powerful which they do not need So I would disagree with both of these in favor of the current Reload bonus. Being able to increase my tank would be nice as right now 700 shield is an tough fit, unless I trade out to CR or AR instead of RR which removes my bonus to weapons I think the bonuses are decent on Cal, if it's shields were slightly greater I would be happy with it. And would be OK with removing some base Armour and adding it to the shield HP Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 101	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:44:00 - [140] - Quote I somewhat agree, using a rail weapon with a further reduced kick could be dangerous Tac sniper rifles would quite scary, 6 precision high dmg rounds, low recoil would mean faster target reaquisition, buffing it's dps(kinda) Bolt pistols I feel would feel hardly different, with my proto bp skills, the recoil is already so small, the spool time between shots is enough time to sight on a target. Rail Rifles-It becomes harder to control ADS about 15-20 rounds into the magazine, with a further recoil buff, IMHO in a max skilled.dropsuit, you could be raining down accurate fire up to 100m for most of your magazine(vague I know) Assault Rails-Mostly the same as it's parent weapon, though it's hipfire accuracy would be inherently buffed by less recoil, just blazing of the hip, no worries Sniper Rifles-Less recoil would increase this weapons ability to fire a series of very powerful shots, I imagine just volleys smashing heavys with body shots in quick succession, but it does have limited magazine cap Charge-Quick follow up shots after a charge shot, devastating Magsec-Its recoil seems to be in a good place at the moment, if buffed it would be lasering headshots into ppl at 50 paces Looks bleak no? Giving a further recoil buff seems a waste of time it will push rail weapons weaknesses out of the picture However if u were to lower the rail recoil skills in the weaponry tree, you could nerf the recoil skills you think may be necessary Say from 5% - 3% in a case by case basis Then you could give the assault a rail recoil skill, make them more specialized in sustained ranged fire Or Shield Regen mode efficiacy Thats my bit on cal assault for now, hope it helps CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian

Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 102	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:53:00 - [141] - Quote Note: my above post is my written perception of what I believe using a cal assault with a recoil reduction skill I have 52million sp, All caldari dropsuits, weapons, equipment to 5 with pretty maxed cores. I've played dust pretty steadily since closed beta So that's what I think I would be doing with a further recoil reduction CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3448	Posted - 2014.10.23 10:59:00 - [142] - Quote A few weapon changes deployed, check them out for proper context in the ongoing discussions. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18373	Posted - 2014.10.23 12:57:00 - [143] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: A few weapon changes deployed, check them out for proper context in the ongoing discussions. Cheers, Cross Seeing as the recoil on the RR was quadrupled and the charge time is now much more significant, both recoil and charge time reductions have become more interesting options. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 105	Posted - 2014.10.23 13:10:00 - [144] - Quote Yeah im interested to see how my cal gear is effected, gonna have a play about over the weekend and post some assault feedback At first glance, kick reduction bonus on cal assault gets my vote, frak charge time reduction, it would have to be a substantial bonus 7-10% to really impact performance. I'll give a more enlightened post after a chance to play around CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18373	Posted - 2014.10.23 13:23:00 - [145] - Quote I can agree that recoil bonuses don't have much of any effect and would support 7.5% per level if the Calassault were to get recoil reduction. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3861	Posted - 2014.10.23 13:41:00 - [146] - Quote Charge time is a non fix. All you have to do is continually half charge. Its how I rack up kills in CQC with an AFG. And most effective CQC weapons are slow fire, high kick, low dispersion. Long range automatic weapons are universally low kick, higher dispersion and lower caliber/damage. This is like sentinels, artificially shoehorning them into a role they are poorly suited to. And everyone ignores my input or starts using EVE as an argument in 3...2...1... EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 105	Posted - 2014.10.23 13:50:00 - [147] - Quote Hmmm caution tells me cal assault should start 5% Fitting Bonus (Same) 3% Reload Hybrid Rail Light\Sidearm (Same) 5% Recoil Reduction Hybrid Rail Light\Sidearm See how it goes Is ADS only recoil Reduction a good idea as another safety measure, to oppose gallente hipfire bonuses? Perhaps keeping rails as more cumbersome cqc rifle CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18374	Posted - 2014.10.23 13:54:00 - [148] - Quote I see no reason why a recoil bonus on the Calassault should be ADS specific. It's not going to morph into an ungodly engine of destruction if the reduction applied to hipfire as well. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3861	Posted - 2014.10.23 14:03:00 - [149] - Quote Hipfire recoil is actually good in CQC. Aim for the crotch and your shots travel upward. Basic automatic weapons 101: unzip your target's guts and finish with a headshot or two. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 105	Posted - 2014.10.23 14:03:00 - [150] - Quote It was just a thought, but I agree, thought perhaps ppl might want to keep it's role as a range weapon more defined But il take hipfire too CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3861	Posted - 2014.10.23 14:08:00 - [151] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: It was just a thought, but I agree, thought perhaps ppl might want to keep it's role as a range weapon more defined But il take hipfire too Caldari and gallente need to swap firing styles. Breach is easier to balance for CQC and assault is easier to balance for range. Unless you're aiming for action movie physics. But I always thought of DUST/EVE as aiming for "close as we realistically can" towards hard scifi. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2927	Posted - 2014.10.23 14:14:00 - [152] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hipfire recoil is actually good in CQC. Aim for the crotch and your shots travel upward. Basic automatic weapons 101: unzip your target's guts and finish with a headshot or two. This is why HMG dispersion was increased back in the day. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3861	Posted - 2014.10.23 14:18:00 - [153] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Hipfire recoil is actually good in CQC. Aim for the crotch and your shots travel upward. Basic automatic weapons 101: unzip your target's guts and finish with a headshot or two. This is why HMG dispersion was increased back in the day. Do not get me started on the HMG and Sentinels in CQC. That should never have been a thing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 450	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:52:00 - [154] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I see no reason why a recoil bonus on the Calassault should be ADS specific. It's not going to morph into an ungodly engine of destruction if the reduction applied to hipfire as well. This. besides ARR sights are ****, you need to hipfire that thing CQC. Recoil reduction should not be limited to ADS, general weapon performance of reducing kick per lvl with weapon operation goes for ADS and hipfire. Why should the assualt bonus be limited to kick per lvl when ADS. Because it's the RR?
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 912	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:30:00 - [155] - Quote I know it's been said before, but I'm going to echo it here to emphasize my preference for it as a change to the assault bonus lineup. Active tanking bonuses would be an excellent way to balance out the suits if a compromise can't be found on how to balance weapon bonuses. It's my personal belief that it's the scouts quick regenerative abilities that is one of the core reasons for it to be such a viable slaying suit and giving assaults bonuses in the area will certainly help them in that regard. Galente: 5-8% bonus for armor repair efficiency. Caldari: 5-8% bonus to shield regen/regulator module efficiency. Or something akin to that. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1206	Posted - 2014.11.16 09:01:00 - [156] - Quote are we going to do proper bonuses where caldari will apply to all hybrids? and likewise for gallente? meaning gal bonus applies to rails and cal bonuses apply to blasters? as eve dictates it should. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3117	Posted - 2014.11.16 10:47:00 - [157] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: are we going to do proper bonuses where caldari will apply to all hybrids? and likewise for gallente? meaning gal bonus applies to rails and cal bonuses apply to blasters? as eve dictates it should. I agree with this. Could lay ground for interesting theorycrafting. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 660	Posted - 2014.11.16 17:49:00 - [158] - Quote Cal: -5% spool time, -5% reload time Gal: -5% kick/spread, +5% dmg falloff range Min: +5% clip, -2% dispersion Amarr: -5% heat, -2% recoil
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 203	Posted - 2014.11.16 18:28:00 - [159] - Quote Does reducing "Dispersion" still mean increasing range? Or was that like 10 updates ago?
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 612	Posted - 2014.11.16 19:31:00 - [160] - Quote Of all the people wanting to change caldari.. who actually is speced into 100% caldari and only uses Caldari gear? I always see people wantitng to change things just to change something without putting days and months on the field with the setup. I kinda like that CCP Ratati wants to put some kind of RR effiencey skill and tie it to Assault and hopefully commando suits to prevent people from using RR on other suits.. Just without my reload bonus I don't see it doing it's just effectively. With the proposal of Charge changes it will either make the Charge sniper crazy good (Which it needs a buff with the range nerf [shame on you CCP from balancing to our current small map sizes]) or make it stupid to use on other suits. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2175	Posted - 2014.11.16 22:12:00 - [161] - Quote Charge time and recoil reduction on Caldari Assault. Gallente has always been difficult, because other than range, they really don't have an area they struggle in. DPS is the highest, They carry plenty of ammo, reload is moderately fast kick is almost non-existent. What really can be buffed? Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 6	Posted - 2014.11.16 23:53:00 - [162] - Quote DISCLAIMER:I have no experience with Caldari gear so I have no feed back to offer on the Caldari assault suits. tl;dr I run Assault G-1s mostly and find that the current Gallente Assault bonus is effective for my play style. However, I find that the recoil reduction bonus is not entirely necessary compared to the dispersion bonus given by the Assault suit. In keeping with the CQC philosophy for Gallente play, recoil should be swapped for reload time. (My thinking: Gallente vs Caldari = Speed vs Precision) -Gallente Assault Bonus: Recoil and Dispersion -> Dispersion and Reload % Based on a skim of the thread (among other suggestions on the thread, I liked the "swap bonuses" concept.): -Caldari Assault Bonus: Recoil Reduction and Spooling Time % ________________ My reference materials Gallente Assault Suits: 5 Assault Rifles Operation: 5 Assault Rifle Dispersion: 5 Ion Pistol Operation: 3 Ion Pistol Dispersion: 3 Sub Machine Gun Operation: 3 Sub Machine Gun Dispersion: 3 Assault G-1 (STD) Fitting (Most used fitting): -Assault Rifle / Swarm Launcher -Ion Pistol / SMG -Flux Grenade -Nanohive -Basic Precision Enhancer -Enhanced Reactive Plate -Complex Armor Repairer -Complex Armor Repairer Shields: 178 Armor: 359 Armor Rep: 25.25/sec eHP: 535+ (effectively raising ehp the longer an engagement goes) ________________ In comparing my FRONTLINE suit's hipfire dispersion and recoil to STD / ADV / PRO Assault suits/AR's, the current Gallente Assault bonuses are definitely noticeable. (The following accounts are using the generic AR type, and none of the variants. The following accounts are strictly considering 1v1 engagements.) On average, I'll engage at a distance OUTSIDE OPTIMAL (30~50m), BUT WITHIN EFFECTIVE (40~70m) using hipfire. On the MLT suit, that is a very bad idea, even when firing in a semi-auto fashion (1~3 rounds per tap). If I want to have accurate shots then I will go into ADS. However, on any of the ASSAULT suits, the hipfire is JUST AS ACCURATE AS MY SMG's, but with the significant difference in damage falloff. The hipfire accuracy allows me to maintain mobility, effectively closing the distance (moving into optimal range) and shredding my target up-close. The hip fire/dispersion also allows me to "shoot-n-scoot" around heavies and "bob-n-weave" against shotgun scouts, if not caught off guard. In my opinion, the bonus is pretty good for the Gallente using an AR / IonP inside it's intended combat range when used appropriately. The only possible change I could fathom for the Gallente Assault suit is that we drop recoil for reload speed, but keep dispersion. Every battle is a battle of attrition for me. 100hp in 5 seconds helps though
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2482	Posted - 2014.11.16 23:58:00 - [163] - Quote I think I'm gonna be hated on for this but I think all these spool-time/charge-time/range etc. bonuses on certain weapons will remain as garbage bonuses. The reason? They pinhole the suit into a specific weapon thus subverting all customization. Stay with me here. Look at the Scout and Sentinel bonuses. Do you notice something? The bonuses every Scout and Sentinel gets applies to their suit REGARDLESS of how they fit it. They get base stat bonuses to scanning, hacking, damage reduction, etc. This allows them to use any fit they choose and STILL get a bonus from the suit. Why then can this logic not be applied to Medium Frames? I simply don't understand the desire to force a Caldari Assault to only use Rail Rifles, a Gallente to only use an AR, etc. This completely goes against the logic of customizing your suit to your preferences. Can we not completely redo the bonuses such that the bonuses will be useful no matter the weapon? This is honestly one of many reasons Assaults remain so lackluster. How about this instead: We balance the weapons accordingly and independently such that they're not complete garbage in the hands of anyone but their respective racial variant, and then proceed to give the suits according bonuses relative to their designed racial lore. I'm just making this up out of my ass but something like Caldari gets some sort of shield regen/delay bonus. Gallente gets armor repair/reduced armor usage penalties. Minmatarr gets speed/stamina/shield regen or what have you. Amarr gets some sort of hybrid shield/armor bonus or something. Make the bonuses appealing and not pinhole the suit into a specific weapon. I want to run a Caldari Assault with a Combat Rifle because I like shields and I like burst-fire. Right now I can do that but my suit bonus does NOTHING for me. Take the design philosophy from Scouts and Sentinels and apply it here. It doesn't make sense that Scouts and Sentinels get the privilege of completely free customization while the Medium Frames are limited to specific weapons. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4552	Posted - 2014.11.17 01:52:00 - [164] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: I think I'm gonna be hated on for this but I think all these spool-time/charge-time/range etc. bonuses on certain weapons will remain as garbage bonuses. The reason? They pinhole the suit into a specific weapon thus subverting all customization. Stay with me here. Look at the Scout and Sentinel bonuses. Do you notice something? The bonuses every Scout and Sentinel gets applies to their suit REGARDLESS of how they fit it. They get base stat bonuses to scanning, hacking, damage reduction, etc. This allows them to use any fit they choose and STILL get a bonus from the suit. Why then can this logic not be applied to Medium Frames? I simply don't understand the desire to force a Caldari Assault to only use Rail Rifles, a Gallente to only use an AR, etc. This completely goes against the logic of customizing your suit to your preferences. Can we not completely redo the bonuses such that the bonuses will be useful no matter the weapon? This is honestly one of many reasons Assaults remain so lackluster. How about this instead: We balance the weapons accordingly and independently such that they're not complete garbage in the hands of anyone but their respective racial variant, and then proceed to give the suits according bonuses relative to their designed racial lore. Tune the rail rifle a bit. Take the Amarr bonus and apply it across the board to all laser weapons. THEN proceed to give each racial variant a useful Assault-oriented bonus. I'm just making this up out of my ass but something like Caldari gets some sort of shield regen/delay bonus. Gallente gets armor repair/reduced armor usage penalties. Minmatarr gets speed/stamina/shield regen or what have you. Amarr gets some sort of hybrid shield/armor bonus or something. Make the bonuses appealing and not pinhole the suit into a specific weapon. I want to run a Caldari Assault with a Combat Rifle because I like shields and I like burst-fire. Right now I can do that but my suit bonus does NOTHING for me. Take the design philosophy from Scouts and Sentinels and apply it here. It doesn't make sense that Scouts and Sentinels get the privilege of completely free customization while the Medium Frames are limited to specific weapons. These bonuses could be 2ndary...the primary bonus to assaults should be the commando bonus of 10% damage but just make it flat for all weaponry...not racial only. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Foehammerr OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 110	Posted - 2014.11.17 02:14:00 - [165] - Quote Primary role: Gallente Context: assault The problem with the Gallente assault is that it works already but no one really understands how it works except for MINA. I'd personally explain it in layman terms at a later date, but for now I'll just say that is more effective than one would think. The only only way to change or improve the bonus is to either increase the current bonus, or to change it to an increase to optimal range. There is no other way you could alter it without moving out of the parameters set by Cross. The current bonus is really good for plasma rifles and ion pistols, but affects nothing else. Increasing optimals would benefit all weapons. It'd probably even make shotguns on assaults more commonplace. I personally use that fit and it's actually really good. It does a better job than the scouts do when buffer tanking sans built in EWAR capabilities. One thing I'd personally like to see and this was proposed by others before me, is to have the skills apply to both rails and blasters for both Gallente and Caldari assault suits. It is more aligned with lore and doctrine and adds more variety to the two suits. This would also give commandos a little bit more definition as being specialists of certain damage types, splitting them from assaulters. *Rangers Lead The Way!* Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 399	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:21:00 - [166] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: caldari: 10% reduction to charge time per level gallente: 5% reduction to damage fall off Those are both pretty good! Although to be honest I would personally want bonuses to things besides guns. A significant gal bonus towards Armor rep modules and a significant bonus towards cal shield regen or regulation modules is more how I would do it.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1212	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:02:00 - [167] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: I think I'm gonna be hated on for this but I think all these spool-time/charge-time/range etc. bonuses on certain weapons will remain as garbage bonuses. The reason? They pinhole the suit into a specific weapon thus subverting all customization. Stay with me here. Look at the Scout and Sentinel bonuses. Do you notice something? The bonuses every Scout and Sentinel gets applies to their suit REGARDLESS of how they fit it. They get base stat bonuses to scanning, hacking, damage reduction, etc. This allows them to use any fit they choose and STILL get a bonus from the suit. Why then can this logic not be applied to Medium Frames? I simply don't understand the desire to force a Caldari Assault to only use Rail Rifles, a Gallente to only use an AR, etc. This completely goes against the logic of customizing your suit to your preferences. Can we not completely redo the bonuses such that the bonuses will be useful no matter the weapon? This is honestly one of many reasons Assaults remain so lackluster. How about this instead: We balance the weapons accordingly and independently such that they're not complete garbage in the hands of anyone but their respective racial variant, and then proceed to give the suits according bonuses relative to their designed racial lore. Tune the rail rifle a bit. Take the Amarr bonus and apply it across the board to all laser weapons. THEN proceed to give each racial variant a useful Assault-oriented bonus. I'm just making this up out of my ass but something like Caldari gets some sort of shield regen/delay bonus. Gallente gets armor repair/reduced armor usage penalties. Minmatarr gets speed/stamina/shield regen or what have you. Amarr gets some sort of hybrid shield/armor bonus or something. Make the bonuses appealing and not pinhole the suit into a specific weapon. I want to run a Caldari Assault with a Combat Rifle because I like shields and I like burst-fire. Right now I can do that but my suit bonus does NOTHING for me. Take the design philosophy from Scouts and Sentinels and apply it here. It doesn't make sense that Scouts and Sentinels get the privilege of completely free customization while the Medium Frames are limited to specific weapons. These bonuses could be 2ndary...the primary bonus to assaults should be the commando bonus of 10% damage but just make it flat for all weaponry...not racial only. i disagree it should be racial only. a heavy assault cruiser doesnt get a bonus to all weapons. it gets a buff to its races weapons so people only use the proper weapons for that ship. amarr suits should give the only laser bonuses. min ships should give the only projectile bonuses. and the gal and cal share hybrids like eve with bonuses that accent the different playstyles but still apply to everything. honestly the bonuses should be robust enough that putting that gun on the wrong races suit is pointless to encourage proper racial playing. unless your implying a 10% damage role bonus in addition to a robust racial bonus for each weapon with the secondary tank bonuses. deimos. its bonuses 50% hybrid damage. well 25+25 37.5 armor repair and 50% fall off to hybrids no one who trains to fly this ship or has the one money to buy one would be stupid enough to put lasers or autocannons on it. whats the point. no one in dust should be using non lasers on an amarr assault suit, non hybrids on cal/gal suits, or non projectile weapons on min suits without a steep disadvantage. im not talking 50% damage on assault suits thats crazy. but there needs to be a noticable difference in performance racially for your preferred weapons. the standard suits need a small bonus for example. standard caldari medium suit = moa Caldari Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 4% bonus to all shield resistances so for the cal suit. you need some a small hybrid buff. and a small shield buff. be it hp, regulator, resistances. this makes it more accesible for new players as it has bonuses to help make it competitive and ideally it would be cheaper. then you have the caldari assault suit which is the eagle. Caldari Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range 4% bonus to all shield resistances Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty Now youve got the shield and damage bonus. Plus a hearty range bonus. If your not using a hybrid on this youre just gimping yourself. Notice how the first two bonuses scale with the cruiser skill, and the latter two only scale from the assault skill. Bonuses need to be built into the suit and operate like this by scaling off of the suit skill, and the lower tier suits skill. This is the only correct way to do it. Of course there needs to be a burst rail rifle as well as the other missing variants, or you can use the burst assault rifle which will also get buffed because its a hybrid weapon and therefore should be buffed. Eve does not differentiate between blasters or railguns. and neither should dust, thats just how new eden is. You should get no bonuses on a cal or gal suit to a non hybrid weapon. thats it. unless its a drone bonus or missile bonus of course using a combat rifle is inherrently wrong. your free to use one of course, but your giving up your buffs in trade of choice. thats how eve works. ill continue in another post. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1212	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:38:00 - [168] - Quote continued, see above post ^ this will apply to all standard unspecialized tech 1 light medium and heavy suits and be used as the framework for making the suits correctly. each suit will have 2 bonuses racially themed that scale on the standard suit operation skill "[Suit Bonuses] Gallente Medium Bonuses (per skill level): (1) 7.5% Armor repairer efficacy (2) 5% hybrid whatever, damage, rof, hipfire, dispersion, kick, falloff, optimal range, clip size, etc, etc." now at level 1 standard you get the 7.5 bonus to armor rep and the 5% bonuses to your hybrid weapon, (be it a sniperrifle, railrifle, shotgun, ar, anything hybrid, which is fair and lore appropriate.) now at level 5 you have a 37.5% armor repairer bonus and 25% (numbers can be altered however) now that standard suit is more viable at level 1-5 against more experienced players as well as offering competitive non proto options. proto is just more slots for more money. now the proposed assault would split these 2 bonuses. 1 which is the 7.5 repairer bonus. stays where it is and is affected again by standard medium frame operation. now you have bonus 3 which is something different from a ferroscale or reactive plate buff, to another hybrid weapon buff. now in the second grouping we are going off the assault suit operation skill thats where bonus 2 now resides from before. and a fourth bonus that is another weapon bonus. to summarize. standard medium suit skill a bonus 1 bonus 2 assault suit skill a bonus 1 bonus 3 skill b (assault skill) bonus 2 bonus 4 and finally a role bonus for the assault suit. this is not set in stone. it can be changed. for example. an amarr assault suit could be all laser weapons bonuses like the omen. from rof for the scrambler pistol and ascr. fall off, and optimal range, as well as overheat. now the assault suit is a laser platform. or a mix of armor and weapons bonuses. from armor resistances, to plate hp and so on. some suits might share bonuses. now the standard medium suit is fixed, it would be made cheaper than the more robust assault and logi suits. (logi suits would gain bonuses as well but were talking about assaults at the moment) and it has a place as a racial suit that is more anything goes. imo the assault suit should lose its equipment slot in this case in exchange for the new robust bonuses. your going to be harder to kill and youll do more damage, but you will be less versatile and will rely on your squad and team for things your not equipped to handle. ( racial tanks your not good against, vehicles, ammo, etc etc.) personally id rather give up the sidearm and grenade as i dont use them, but that is purely subjective. i will use an equipment slot for a compact nanohive over a sidearm or grenade anyday if i cant fit all three. therefor it is the most valuable and versatile slot of the three imo and makes sense to take it off. or dont. thats up to you guys and the devs. scouts would have no tank bonuses where the mediums do. so mediums should feel less outperformed by tanked scouts. as well as giving more combat bonuses to unspecialized light suits, giveing the scouts purely ewarfare and equipment bonuses. logis would be given first and foremost a bonus to their races repairer. so range and healing for cal to a shield repaired and maybe multi targets and more healing for a min shield tool. in this case the amarr and gal would take ownership of the new armor repair tool, ( 2 variants, 1 gal skinned, 1 amarr skinned) and do the same. and trade offs would be the tool that heals the most has least range. or the longest range tool has least healing. a tool that does multi targets splits its healing between targets. so if it was 60hp per second. once you do a second target. it splits to 30 for each target. and divides again in the same way proportionately until its max targets is reached. in this case 3 targets would get 20hp. of course this is just going into depth for the plans to balance out the other suits as well. this is how eve works. eve is balanced. by balancing like this dust will be balanced. eve parity = balance. we just need to adjust the values properly and copy the system eve has in place already. dust is in the state its in because they tried to reinvent the wheel so to speak. it didnt work. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1212	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:47:00 - [169] - Quote ideas for role bonuses include kincats since they are the microwarpdrive of dust infantry. thats my personal one preference. not everyone fits a mwd on heavy assault cruisers. not everyone fits kin cats on an assault. but its there if you want to sacrifice some tank. or we have the fitting bonus which i feel is pointless as it kinda just cancels out equipment bonuses on the logi and cloak bonuses on the scout and everyone pretty much has the same pg and cpu anyway. so it doesnt really make much sense to me and i find it sloppy. ive read some people want to introduce assault equipment. like jetpacks. i hate this idea more than i have words to accurately describe. idk how possible it would be but maybe a head on damage reduction for rushing-charging forward. if you get shot in the back you would get hit harder. nothing substantial but like 10%-20% head on damage reduction. to make pushing forward easier. this is if theres no armor resistances or resistance modules introduced of course. though i feel it would mess up hit detection potentially if not done correctly. but you get the idea. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3550	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:56:00 - [170] - Quote Well both the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses improves their respective race's uptime. A minmatar with an ACR lasts about an extra 0.8 seconds before reloadjng compared to anotjer race weilding the same weapon. An amarr lasts another 4-5 shots before overheating compared to another race holding the same weapon. Because of this I think Assault bonuses should be geared towards persistency/ sustaining in combat. Bonuses that would allow a player to continue firing for longer periods of time. Charge time reduction (Caldari only) Reload time reduction Magazine increase Reduced ROF + Increased damage Partial Reloading (reloading during firing - shotgun style - gallante only) Faster movement to ADS Faster weapon switching Heat Sink (chance to not expend ammo from firing) 1 in the chamber (reloading with 0< rounds results in shorter reload - caldari only) Pick your poison. Personally I rather like the following. -5% to gallante partial reload speed per level (would require changing AR mechanics to permit partial reloads) +3% to gallante heat sink probability per level (@ Lvl 5 produces a 15% chance to not expend ammunition on a shot) -5% to caldari charge time per level -5% to caldari intial reload time per level (reduces time to reload before the weapon is cocked, @Lvl 5 produces a 25% bonus to 1 in the chamber reload and a 15% bonus to full reloads) They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2187	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:07:00 - [171] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Well both the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses improves their respective race's uptime. A minmatar with an ACR lasts about an extra 0.8 seconds before reloadjng compared to anotjer race weilding the same weapon. An amarr lasts another 4-5 shots before overheating compared to another race holding the same weapon. Because of this I think Assault bonuses should be geared towards persistency/ sustaining in combat. Bonuses that would allow a player to continue firing for longer periods of time. Charge time reduction (Caldari only) Reload time reduction Magazine increase Reduced ROF + Increased damage Partial Reloading (reloading during firing - shotgun style - gallante only) Faster movement to ADS Faster weapon switching Heat Sink (chance to not expend ammo from firing) 1 in the chamber (reloading with 0< rounds results in shorter reload - caldari only) Pick your poison. Personally I rather like the following. -5% to gallante partial reload speed per level (would require changing AR mechanics to permit partial reloads) +3% to gallante heat sink probability per level (@ Lvl 5 produces a 15% chance to not expend ammunition on a shot) -5% to caldari charge time per level -5% to caldari intial reload time per level (reduces time to reload before the weapon is cocked, @Lvl 5 produces a 25% bonus to 1 in the chamber reload and a 15% bonus to full reloads) Rather, the assault bonus helps with the weapons weakness. Scramblers overheat, Amarr assault mitigates it with a heat reduction. Projectile weapons have small clips relative to their ROF and empty very fast, Minmatar assault mitigates that by expanding magazine size. Therefore, since the RR has very high kick and charge time, the Caldari assault should mitigate these. The AR really doesn't have a weakness other than range, and since range bonuses are likely off the table... Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Jammeh McJam F0RSAKEN EMPIRE. 132	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:50:00 - [172] - Quote caldari: 15% reduction to charge time of hybrid:rail weapons per level and 10% reduction to kick gallente: idgaf "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends MAG ~ Raven vet
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19162	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:06:00 - [173] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: caldari: 15% reduction to charge time of hybrid:rail weapons per level and 10% reduction to kick gallente: idgaf This is a ludicrously massive bonus. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2191	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:13:00 - [174] - Quote Min and Am bonuses make their weapon work better by reducing it's weakest feature (CR=clip, LR,ScR=heat). The Gal less so, and it's hard to quntify, but it's still there (IMO, it's not nearly as bad as some make it out to be, particularly on the regular ARs). The reload bonus on the RR is a joke -- you have a sidarm and you're now more than ever going to use it. If I ruled the Dust balance world, I would buff the Gal bonus a bit to make it felt a bit more more. I'd change the Cal RR bonus to kick and/or charge time. All of the above said, in order to make the assault suits, as class, compete with Heavy/Scout spam, I'd add a 2nd bonus to all the suits (like DPS or resistance) to make them stack up better against the heavies and scouts.
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 218	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:36:00 - [175] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I have for quite some time now been hearing that while the Amarr and Minmitar racial bonuses are useful the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are a bit lack luster. As such input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Gal and Cal racial bonuses, and how to polish the experience and utility of same. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs. Rather than just the bonuses, the assault suits need to be changed. There's no use for a pure damage potential unit in a game requiring team-based potential. There is literally no sense for team killing to be possible in any gamemode.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1215	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:58:00 - [176] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: caldari: 15% reduction to charge time of hybrid:rail weapons per level and 10% reduction to kick gallente: idgaf no. cal bonus needs to apply to all hybrids. cal use both gal use both bonuses should apply to both. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14728	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:44:00 - [177] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Jammeh McJam wrote: caldari: 15% reduction to charge time of hybrid:rail weapons per level and 10% reduction to kick gallente: idgaf no. cal bonus needs to apply to all hybrids. cal use both gal use both bonuses should apply to both. Both use them so both should get the shared bonuses. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 456	Posted - 2014.11.18 12:29:00 - [178] - Quote i have used the gall assault suit since it was first released and had the usless shield recharge bonus and the decent weapon reduction fitting. now it has what i believe to be the better assault suit bonus's. the reduction to kick/dispersion is quite helpful to the AR as well as the ion pistol. recently i have experimented with the shotgun and it is quite fun. not only does the gall assault bonus apply to just the rifle/pistol. but the shotgun and plasma cannon. these are still hybrid-plasma weapons. so we have a bonused rifle, pistol. the AR and ion pisitol are deavasting cqc-mid range weapons now with the shotgun, the reduced dispersion allows more pellets to land on the targets, the reduced kick makes follow up shots easier to maintain and more overall damge is applied to the target and is quicker at killing than the SG being on a scout. ( i have a cloaked assault suit with creo shotty and surprised a proto amarr logi with full shield/armour and slagged him in 1 shot. he wasn't too happy after that then we have the PLC. boy is this fun. this is really only good on the assault suit. yes it can work with mandos, particually the gal mando for even more damge. but the sheer cpu cost of the plc isn't really worth using on the gall mando. the scout with plc runs the risk of killing himself with splash damage( experience even with brick tank) and it draws so much cpu form the scout its still painful to fit. on the sentinel its pointless, again cpu draw. ON the assault however its just right as an av weapon. the reduction to weapony makes it viable and the assault bonus reduces its kick allowing for better arc's towards targets and better cqc usability. so here we have 4 weapons all that benifit from the current gall assault bonus. now we could change the gall assault to a damage bonus. BUT then we'd have ridiculously strong AR's, shotguns, plc, ion pistol but wait.....the commando already has a damge bonus so that's out of the equation. we could change the bonus to rate of fire increase. again we'd have stupidly fast firing breach AR's, shotguns and ion pistols. we don't want that. the gall assault would become to powerful. this would also hurt the PLC as it only gets 1 shot. any increase to range would make all the weapons far to strong. do you want to be killed by shotgunning gall assaults from say 20-30m? no. ion pistol charged shots at 40-50m? no. all ar varients would be too stong. the PLC would be able to hit vehciles on RDV's from the other end of the map (if you can angle it right). the only way to keep the gall assault balanced is for it to retain its current bonus's. not only that. but why should assault suit bonus's ONLY favour the rifles? cant its bonus AFFECT ALL OF THAT RACES WEAPONS?. not only the rifle. this allows the assault suit to be versatile and effective with any of the respective weapons from that race. so. if the gall assault bonus was usless then why does it affect all 4 of the gallentes weapons? the swarm launcher is caldarian so why isint it affected by the re-load bonus? because its not a hybrid-rail weapon its a missile weapon sowhy not add a swarm luancher bonus to the caldari assault? also. why isn't the mass driver/flaylock pistol not affected by the minmattar assault bonus of larger clip's? the amarr assault is in a good spot. increasing the fire time of laser/scrambler rifles. but nothing for the scrambler pistol. maybe if this had a heat mechanic? (looking at you breach scrambler pistol) so heres a question? why should assault suit bonus's only favour rifles? it'd be better/give players an incentive to use them more if that races assault improves the effectiveness of their weapons. the other non-rifle weapons should have incentives to be used. anyway. i say leave the gall assault bonus as is. it improves all 4 of the gallentes weapons. this gives reason to use all of them for their situations. be warned. changing the gall assault bonus will either make it too strong or broken/op with its weapon of choice. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1302	Posted - 2014.11.18 12:58:00 - [179] - Quote Take all the bonuses Increase to 10% per level Done Your welcome Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1219	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:02:00 - [180] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Jammeh McJam wrote: caldari: 15% reduction to charge time of hybrid:rail weapons per level and 10% reduction to kick gallente: idgaf no. cal bonus needs to apply to all hybrids. cal use both gal use both bonuses should apply to both. Both use them so both should get the shared bonuses. thats what i said i guess i should have specified gal bonuses would apply to all hybrids too. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

Myron Kundera The Generals 107	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:41:00 - [181] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I have for quite some time now been hearing that while the Amarr and Minmitar racial bonuses are useful the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are a bit lack luster. As such input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Gal and Cal racial bonuses, and how to polish the experience and utility of same. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs. Primary role: Gallente Assault. Secondary role: Gallente Logi. Viable or not, i-¦m putting the bonuses i think would help the Gallente Assault class, in order of my personal preference. Either way it-¦s up to you and CCP to pick the right one up. 1.- % optimal range buff for weaponry (moderate). 2.- % ROF buff for weaponry (small but noticeable). 3.- % Max Clip/Max Ammo buff for weaponry (big). 4.- % Reload speed for weaponry (big). 5.- 2% Armor damage profile for weaponry (making it 10+Shields/0+Armor). "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 135	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:42:00 - [182] - Quote Hmm, I've posted here before: something about giving Gallente a absolute range buff. Though after thinking and deliberating, an optimal range buff would be better and less "game-breaking". I still stand by that bonus. If not that, RoF, if not that, uber charge the current bonus to 10% or so. My experience with the recent Rail Rifle changes however...warrant a charge reduction bonus. But that's the problem: the fact that the gun was modified so that IT WOULD NEED a reduction bonus does not sit well with me. It's like offering moldy bread to starving children and having them say "No" because their trash has less, non moldy food. Then you take that trash away, throw it in a pool of tar, and suddenly the moldy bread is much more appealing. ...bad example, but first thing that came to mind. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
dwater General Tso's Alliance 79	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:46:00 - [183] - Quote Cal and Gal need bonuses that counter their weakness I use cal assault and my reload bonus is poop make my RR have less kick! I don't use gal but it should make the ar's better at their intended weak spots. All Assaults need more damage commando's need to get more hp (they should start with 1k hp it's a heavy suit) and not have the damage bonus
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 74	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:20:00 - [184] - Quote Not sure if it's been mentioned, but that shield regen delay is horrible! 11-17 second delays? Combined with lackluster eHP? With two complex regs Caldari can begin regen in 5 seconds, the rest are looking at over 7 seconds before regen even begins. The Amarr Sentinel begins in 10 seconds base value. If we want assault to be on the front lines, let's give them the tools to stay there. EHP increase and shield regen delay decrease.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19172	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:40:00 - [185] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Not sure if it's been mentioned, but that shield regen delay is horrible! 11-17 second delays? Combined with lackluster eHP? With two complex regs Caldari can begin regen in 5 seconds, the rest are looking at over 7 seconds before regen even begins. The Amarr Sentinel begins in 10 seconds base value. If we want assault to be on the front lines, let's give them the tools to stay there. EHP increase and shield regen delay decrease. How on earth are you getting 17 second shield regen delays on a shield assault? With 5 shield extenders the Calassault regen depleted delay does not exceed 8 seconds. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef


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