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CPM input request: Assault Bonuses

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Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1970	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:42:00 - [31] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Gallente Assault (duh :p ) I feel that a Range bonus to Hybrid Plasma would be the best way to solve this issue. I've been debating between the RoF bonus and Range bonus for quite some time but I finally decided to go with the Range. We could increase range in three ways: A). Give a slight bonus to both Falloff range and Optimal Range B). Give a nice bonus to Falloff Range C). Give a nice bonus to Optimal Range *(My personal Favorite)* Any of those three I'd be happy with. No matter how much you hear random blueberries saying the bonus is useful they are falling victim to the placebo effect and a majority of the time they are in NPC corps. Do not listen to these guys, I've never met another primary Gallente Assault (that's actually good) that said the bonus was good like the Amarr and Minmatar. Caldari Assault user. But increasing optimal range, like the old sharpshooter skill, was removed for being OP, was it not? Not that I'm against it, but we do need to avoid making the next FOTM if possible. I think option A you suggested would be a good balance. Say 3% per level. Gives a healthy boost to both. The weakness is range and assaults are all about shoring up the weaknesses of their rifles, but again, wasn't range increases through skills removed for a reason? I don't want it I just need it To breath, to feel, to know I'm alive
CamClarke KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:55:00 - [32] - Quote I've heard this repeated many times: Just swap the Cal and Gal bonuses. RR users have a hard time staying on target at range with sustained fire due to the kick, often having to limit themselves to 6-8 round bursts to maintain accuracy at anything over 60 meters, having to charge .3 seconds every time. AR chews ammo almost as fast as the CR/ACR, and must reload often. Accuracy is never an issue, as feathering eliminates kick. Kick is virtually nonexistent on the AR to begin with, unless all you do is magdump every time you see a red dot. This reload should also be faster than the Commando reload. Both are currently 5% per level. If not, then you might as well make the Commando and Assault bonuses fully redundant and give them the damage bonus as well.
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 87	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:57:00 - [33] - Quote Very disappointed to hear that range is "off the table". It frustrates me that the Amarr and Minmatar have a bonus that is very clearly in their huge favor, addressing the weakness of their guns, while the weakness of the Gallente's guns cannot be addressed due to it apparently "disrupting balance". So, I'm going to argue FOR it here, and still provide you with some alternatives regardless. Seeing it from your point of view, I can understand where you come from. The gun does have the largest damage per clip when compared to the other racial types (breach to rail, etc), so bringing this damage to a longer range would be pretty scary. Also, I assume you've taken the other variants into account as well, which, admittingly, could lead to problems regarding the TAC version. What's more, the bonus would extend to Shotguns and Plasma Cannons, our other two guns. But let's be honest, is that 1-2 extra meters on the shotgun really going to help you? Plasma Cannons I can see receiving a large advantage, but Shotguns? The problem with this, then, lies with the Rifle. Here's the problem though, the other racial variants would still have a large advantage over our plasma based variants. Let's look at the Tactical Variant: The Scrambler has a higher clip, larger damage to shields, and a highly damaging charge shot, all while still having a larger optimal range than the Gallente variant. Coupled with the Amarr Assault bonus, you can get a lot of shots off in a short amount of time, at a much longer range. A range increase would shorten the gap, not enough to overshadow the ScR. Regarding the Burst and Breach variants: The combat Rifle will always have an edge over our burst. The Combat Rifle gets a much faster rof between bursts, is dead accurate, and, once again, has a farther range. Let's not forget the +15% dmg to armor profile. The advantage the Rail Rifle has over the Breach is obvious: range, damage, and the profile. Again, increasing the range of the plasma variants will not overshadow either of these two guns in their effectiveness, especially considering the Minmatar bonus brings the clip to 80, 20 over the plasma variant. As for the Assault variant: Once again, the weakness is range. The gun has the largest damage per clip of the Assault variants, so their's one edge. Also, the gun has low kick and is relatively accurate compared to the others. Overall, this version is better than the others. Let's also not forget the the guns the other races have either. The heat reduction can keep a Laser Rifle shooting for seconds more, all the while hitting at it's max damage. The Mass Driver gets another shot or two (not sure how that 1.5 rounds to) for suppression and large splash damage. Now, I have not addressed the fact that, apparently, plasma variants have large dispersion, so much so, that this dispersion is to be considered a "weakness" of the Plasma Rifle variants. And the reason why is because, as it is supposed to be a "short-lowmid" range weapon, why should I worry about my shots going a bit off if I should be engaging my target at such a close range? I shouldn't, especially when there is a skill dedicated to decreasing that dispersion already that anyone can obtain, regardless of suit (Sharpshooter). Something that neither the Amarr nor Minmatar have a way of doing for their Assault bonus. Something that makes our bonus less "unique". Again, I ask: why do the Amarr and Minmatar get bonuses that are so beneficial to their weaknesses yet the Gallente be refused their bonus for their gun's weakness? Saying Dispersion is a large weakness is questionable considering the guns' optimal range of engagement removes the need to worry for such things, especially when the already low feeling dispersion can be reduced by other means. Please reconsider implementing a range increase as the bonus. TL;DR: If the Amarr and Minmatar get bonuses to their true weaknesses, so too should the Gallente. Range will not make their variants vastly better than the other Racial guns and therefore affect balance. With all that said, the second bonus I wouldn't mind seeing would be a ROF bonus. However, as that is an increase to DPS, I don't really see it happening. In which case, a third option would be, as people have noted here, a decrease in damage dropoff past optimal. It's not EXACTLY like a range increase, since the optimal is still at 40ish, but it does make it so rounds hit a bit harder outside that range. And if that's still a no go, then just keep the dispersion bonus and tell us "No" already. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3754	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:27:00 - [34] - Quote I don't run skilled assault suits so my ability to contribute here is limited. Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? I'm actually keeping my mind on things like taking into account assault interactions with sentinels and how to make things more interesting and fun attacking a sentinel hardpoint while keeping it risky. Certain encounters are entirely too one-sided in certain situations.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 238	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:47:00 - [35] - Quote I run all of the Assulat but in order of peference its Minmatar, Amarr, Caldari, Gallente. Why not give a secondary bonus to all of the Assault suits and not the guns. Keep the reload/dispersion but add Caldari: 3 - 5% Shield recharge per level. Keeps shields recharging very quick Galente: 3- 5% Armor repair efficacy per level. Still wont out rep a repair tool but will kkep the assault suit more self suffecient Ammar: 3-5% Armor plate efficacy: Yes, even more HP, but even 15% more isnt the equivalent of another plate> Plus it may encourage Ammar Assaults to equip more reactive and ferroscale plates, because they can provide more armor at less of a movement penalty. Minmatar: 3-5% Biotics efficacy. Encourages the use of kincats, myrofibril, and cardiac regs, It could make the assault nearly as fast as a scout. Just throwing these out there. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vicious Minotaur 1245	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:50:00 - [36] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? Bit of a wall, but: The Minmatar bonus directly improves the capabilities of the CR in and of itself. More rounds in the magazine deals with physical weapon properties, and better allows sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It also lessens a weakness: magazine unloading time. The Amarr bonus directly improves the capabilities of the ScR in and of itself. Heat buildup is a physical property of the weapon, and the reduction allows for sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It lesses a weakness: Massive heat buildup. The Caldari bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the RR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the RR, in that the bonus improves the speed at which the merc is able to put another mag in. That is not a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc. The bonus does not directly affect the ability to fire. It does not really lessen a weakness: reload time is not that significant. Also, shares bonus with Commando Class. (I am inexperience with this one, and may very well be wrong.) The Gallente bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the AR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the AR, in that the bonus improves the Mercs ability to handle the recoil. That is not just a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc (though, recoil is an innate aspect of a gun, so it could be that the internal recoil absoption mechanics are improved) . The bonus kind of [?] affects the ability to fire, in such that the bonus is related to the act of firing. (again, I am iffy on this one) It doesn't lessen a weakness: AR recoil is minimal. The bonuses, if what I say is deemed accurate, need to directly impact the ability to fire and lessen a weakness. The Caldari is definitely an outlier, while the Gallente may meet only one of the mentioned criteria. I am a minotaur.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 238	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:57:00 - [37] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? Bit of a wall, but: The Minmatar bonus directly improves the capabilities of the CR in and of itself. More rounds in the magazine deals with physical weapon properties, and better allows sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It also lessens a weakness: magazine unloading time. The Amarr bonus directly improves the capabilities of the ScR in and of itself. Heat buildup is a physical property of the weapon, and the reduction allows for sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It lesses a weakness: Massive heat buildup. The Caldari bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the RR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the RR, in that the bonus improves the speed at which the merc is able to put another mag in. That is not a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc. The bonus does not directly affect the ability to fire. It does not really lessen a weakness: reload time is not that significant. Also, shares bonus with Commando Class. (I am inexperience with this one, and may very well be wrong.) The Gallente bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the AR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the AR, in that the bonus improves the Mercs ability to handle the recoil. That is not just a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc (though, recoil is an innate aspect of a gun, so it could be that the internal recoil absoption mechanics are improved) . The bonus kind of [?] affects the ability to fire, in such that the bonus is related to the act of firing. (again, I am iffy on this one) It doesn't lessen a weakness: AR recoil is minimal. The bonuses, if what I say is deemed accurate, need to directly impact the ability to fire and lessen a weakness. The Caldari is definitely an outlier, while the Gallente may meet only one of the mentioned criteria. Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vicious Minotaur 1246	Posted - 2014.10.20 06:05:00 - [38] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. If that is indeed the case, then CCP broke something. My Amarr Assault account saw much benefit to the ScR when I started skilling up my Amarr Assault(this was before the dropsuit command partial respec). I have not used that account in ages, though, so I can't verify your (more recent?) findings. I am a minotaur.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 238	Posted - 2014.10.20 06:28:00 - [39] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. If that is indeed the case, then CCP broke something. My Amarr Assault account saw much benefit to the ScR when I started skilling up my Amarr Assault(this was before the dropsuit command partial respec). I have not used that account in ages, though, so I can't verify your (more recent?) findings. Just log in with a buddy not specced into the Amarr assault, both of you pull out a MLT scrambler, and see who can get off the most shots. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vicious Minotaur 1246	Posted - 2014.10.20 07:22:00 - [40] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Just log in with a buddy not specced into the Amarr assault, both of you pull out a MLT scrambler, and see who can get off the most shots. Just tested (and checked out what all the hubbub is over Quafe suits), and using both MLT and STD ScRs, on my amarr character, and my Caldari character. Did three tests per. On my lvl 5 amarr ASLT: ..........STD...............MLT 1) 20 shots...1) 21 shots 2) 20 shots...2) 20 shots 3) 22 shots...3) 21 shots On my unskilled Caldari: ..........STD...............MLT 1) 15 shots...1) 16 shots 2) 16 shots...2) 16 shots 3) 16 shots...3) 16 shots So on my Amarr, I get up around 5 shots more than on my unskilled Caldari character. It seems like everything is functioning. I am a minotaur.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8039	Posted - 2014.10.20 07:30:00 - [41] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Gallente Assault (duh :p ) I feel that a Range bonus to Hybrid Plasma would be the best way to solve this issue. I've been debating between the RoF bonus and Range bonus for quite some time but I finally decided to go with the Range. We could increase range in three ways: A). Give a slight bonus to both Falloff range and Optimal Range B). Give a nice bonus to Falloff Range C). Give a nice bonus to Optimal Range *(My personal Favorite)* Any of those three I'd be happy with. No matter how much you hear random blueberries saying the bonus is useful they are falling victim to the placebo effect and a majority of the time they are in NPC corps. Do not listen to these guys, I've never met another primary Gallente Assault (that's actually good) that said the bonus was good like the Amarr and Minmatar. Caldari Assault user. But increasing optimal range, like the old sharpshooter skill, was removed for being OP, was it not? Not that I'm against it, but we do need to avoid making the next FOTM if possible. I think option A you suggested would be a good balance. Say 3% per level. Gives a healthy boost to both. The weakness is range and assaults are all about shoring up the weaknesses of their rifles, but again, wasn't range increases through skills removed for a reason? You are right and we should not get too crazy with the range if it were to happen but remember that the Game was very different to what we have now. Just to put things in perspective; The Duvolle Tactical has less range than the Rail Rifle and the Duvolle Assault Rifle has less range than the Duvolle Tactical. In my ideal world the Gallente Assault bonus would bounce the Duvolle Assault Rifle to Duvolle Tactical Ranges and put the Duvolle Tactical around the same range as the Rail Rifle. This may sound like it may be OP but the lower Alpha damage will not make it seem like the Rail Rifle at longer Ranges. The Rail has the benefit of higher Alpha so the Falloff doesn't hurt it as much as it would the Plasma Rifles. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3754	Posted - 2014.10.20 08:12:00 - [42] - Quote Ok thenks for the explanation and since I operate commandos using RR and AR yes I consider reload speed on the RR a false benefit. If it takes less than two seconds to reload then it doesn't need a reload bonus. On the gallente I also find AR to be one of the most stable rifles in both hipfire and ADS so benefit isn't one I would find useful on my gallente commando. So now my question to you all. What is more valuable to the bonusing on assaults? I would like to see the gallente and caldari assaults brought into line with the minmatar and amarr. Minmatar assaults and amarra assaults can do something that I have noted continual failure in both the gal and caldari assault. The minmatar with a combat rifle can set up circumstances where he can burn down armor sentinels, and the amarr can torch shield sents. There is a caveat here: both suits have the capacity to set up situations where they have an advantage over the fatties. The gallente assault lacks this because it's engagement range is right around sentinel optimal. None can handle a sentinel in the CQC environment but the minmatar has the range to fight a sent and the magazine capacity to kill an armor sent while remaining outside optimal. The amarr just tears ass across minsent and calsents because lasers. Once you get proficiency 3+ the resists mean very little overall. Caldari have the range but not the mag capacity to kill a fresh sent at range because you're going to miss shots at range. Its just the nature of the beast. Gallente has the worst of both worlds by being forced to run inside sentinel chase range anyway, and not having the magazine. Now bluntly I'm not in favor of gallente and caldari being able to beat hmg sents on cqc in a straight fight. But can we give the assaults a bonus that makes the cqc equation less a sure thing and offer real options for engagement that carry over to more than simply reducing the die in a fire rate when forced into cqc with a sentinel with or without a logi. Sentinels are hard defense but if assaults are intended to attack CQC cap point a smart assault should have a way to fight that isn't dependent upon the 3v1 blueberry lemming rush. Bear in mind I think that running at the fatty should not become less lethal. But there need to be options that cater to smart tactics.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3369	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:20:00 - [43] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: If there are any type of bonuses to give to Caldari and Gallente assault suits added to what they have I am against it. As it stands Gallente Assault rifles and Caldari rail rifles are by far the best versatile weapons in the game. The way that Lasers and the Amarr suit works in tandem is really the best way to use the weapon and the suit. Once and I am hoping for the best here that Minmitar weapons get better balance with damage, range, and rate of fire, their -20 +20 profile is going to play a very big role. My proposal: If we must give Caldari suits something unique make it so that their current ranges with standard, advance, and prototype are only achieved while using a Caldari assault suit. For Gallente suits I would do something along a similar fashion but instead take away damage per round to where the gallente suit is the only suit you can get the full effects of the assault rifles. I just don't see any balance giving these guns more bonuses that will disrupt what is already seemingly starting to balance out. I believe the point of this thread is to replace the current bonuses for the suits not to add to it. Correct, though up-scaling the numbers on the current bonuses would be considered as well. General note: Nothing is set in stone at this point, even a change actually happening, however as a CPM when I continue to hear the same type of comment/feedback coming out of the community it seems important to take notice and dig deeper, hence this thread. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 600	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:48:00 - [44] - Quote Change the weapon fitting bonuses to medium frame bonus. Then, keep all current bonuses, and add an additional third bonus. Caldari: 5% per level reduction to rail weaponry kick/recoil Gallente: buff current bonus to 10% and add in a 1% per level damage increase to blaster weaponry So it'd look like this: caldari medium frame level 5 gives you 25% decrease in weapon fitting costs Caldari assault level 5 gives 25% reduction to reload time and 25% reduction to kick/recoil
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3755	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:51:00 - [45] - Quote Would giving gallente or caldarI assaults something akin to resistance penetration be considered valuable? Since gallente suits with AR are by definition going to operate In CQC would giving them 2% resistance penetration per level be a viable thing? And I don't mean multiplier. It directly lowers the resistance rating of an enemy target on a 1 for 1 basis when using plasma weapons? This would make the gallente assault capable of tackling an experienced sentinel in the same way an experienced sentinel tackles an expert HAV driver. With the means to partially negate an advantage. It would also assist gallente AV given that while amusing, the PLC is the most cumbersome and inaccurate AV capable weapon we have. So as an example a level 5 galssault encounters a level 5 cal sentinel 1v1. The calsent is rocking an HMG and 15% shield resistance to plasma. The gallente assault bonus reduces that bonus to 5 on a 1 for 1 basis. Now the calsent is running at a similar resistance to plasma as calsent 2. But still retains his massive shield buffer. But drop the same gallente on an amarr sentinel which is not bonused for plasma it doesn't cut a 10% bonus to efficacy. Similar things occur in AV when running plasma cannon vs. Vehicles. Vehicles have a native resistance built in due to previous balancing passes. This is my suggestion for gallente assault. I will think on caldari while I'm supposed to be working.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1411	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:11:00 - [46] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I have for quite some time now been hearing that while the Amarr and Minmitar racial bonuses are useful the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are a bit lack luster. As such input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Gal and Cal racial bonuses, and how to polish the experience and utility of same. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs. I feel largely that this is simply a perceptional bias - don't get me wrong, the amarr and minmatar bonuses are quite good but they're only perceived to be better than gallente and caldari bonuses because they are the only source of these bonuses. The gallente bonus in particular (now that we have a bit more information on how dispersion works) is UNBELIEVABLY powerful when moving and shooting it just isn't perceived to be that powerful because it's a 'non-visible' bonus (even with one level in min/amarr or cal suits you can see and feel the differences +rounds/lvl or slightly faster reload). I've spoken at length before about how in other games 'non-visible' bonuses almost have to reach the point of being overpowered before they end up being valued by players in them - Imagine a module in dust where you could fit it to your suit and it gave everyone in your squad +30 armor, 2hp/second reps and -15% shield delays, no matter where they are on the map.... this is an incredibly powerful module, yet it would only have say half the perceived value as a complex reactive plate despite proving a much larger numerical advantage. You can read a bit about it from a LoL designer's perspective in the first bit of 'power without gameplay'. I strongly feel that any bonus to the assault suit should be 'performance' related rather than buffs to straight killing power (like damage, rate of fire, or range which affects how well you're able to project DPS) and for the most part all of the races currently fit that design value with a bit of minor tweaking here and there. The gallente assault bonus is very good right now, the caldari assault's reload bonus is the exact same as the commando's and that's fine - except the commando also gets a damage buff on top of it as well, while the caldari assault gets nothing else. I think that adding a kick reduction of 5% per level to the caldari assault suit would make it a bit of a stronger choice when it comes to rail weaponry, helping make weapons like the assault rail rifle, magsec smg or even the sniper rifle perform more optimally in all situations. Currently the caldari lineup of weapons handles exactly the same on every suit in the game, instead of handling better on the race of suits they're intended for. Throwing a bone to the gallente players though, I think the assault rifle needs some slight range buffs and the rail rifle could use some slight range/performance nerfs on non caldari suits. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18267	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:21:00 - [47] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. Lucent Echelon channel co-ordinator - Gal FW You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 438	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:59:00 - [48] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. LOL I've sent Cross a message ingame to look at this. He did, hence this thread.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 252	Posted - 2014.10.20 13:17:00 - [49] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Would someone please lay out in non-ranty terms just how the current bonuses fail to match others as simply as possible? Bit of a wall, but: The Minmatar bonus directly improves the capabilities of the CR in and of itself. More rounds in the magazine deals with physical weapon properties, and better allows sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It also lessens a weakness: magazine unloading time. The Amarr bonus directly improves the capabilities of the ScR in and of itself. Heat buildup is a physical property of the weapon, and the reduction allows for sustained fire. The bonus is directly related to the act of firing. It lesses a weakness: Massive heat buildup. The Caldari bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the RR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the RR, in that the bonus improves the speed at which the merc is able to put another mag in. That is not a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc. The bonus does not directly affect the ability to fire. It does not really lessen a weakness: reload time is not that significant. Also, shares bonus with Commando Class. (I am inexperience with this one, and may very well be wrong.) The Gallente bonus does not directly improve the capabilities of the AR in and of itself. It instead deals with the relationship of the Merc and the AR, in that the bonus improves the Mercs ability to handle the recoil. That is not just a physical weapon property: it is the physical ability of the merc (though, recoil is an innate aspect of a gun, so it could be that the internal recoil absoption mechanics are improved) . The bonus kind of [?] affects the ability to fire, in such that the bonus is related to the act of firing. (again, I am iffy on this one) It doesn't lessen a weakness: AR recoil is minimal. The bonuses, if what I say is deemed accurate, need to directly impact the ability to fire and lessen a weakness. The Caldari is definitely an outlier, while the Gallente may meet only one of the mentioned criteria. Spot on except for the Amarr. The bonus does not apply to the scrambler rifle, only the laser rifle. I've tested it out with me in my level 3 assault and Judge Rhadamaanthus in his Templar suit and Stefan the Almighty in Proto Amarr Assault.. Judge got the most shots off, and stephan and I only managed to get out the same number of shots. The laser rifle lets you shoot far more. I used to rock it on my gallente scout, its much better on either the Amarr Assault or Commando. The assault let's you fire 20 extra rounds making you overheat St 80 rounds instead of 60..These last 20 rounds are also death touch to almost every suit in dust no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 193	Posted - 2014.10.20 14:46:00 - [50] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. The amarr weapons are suppose to be much older, the suit is suppose to be made to use this weapon the best. The gun has a -20 to armor, which their suit is about armor. Currently Gallente suits have passive armor repair, the Minmitar still have a primary assault weapon that needs balancing. People that just want a buff in range are not looking at how will it effect the other weapons and their relation. The gallente assault rifles do not suffer from drawbacks in using it like the amarr weaponry. The rail rifle has a bit of a charge but it doesn't have a mechanic that gives this weapon some type of hang up. If anything its current stats need to be reduced for those who use that weapon making those particular assault suits the best. If people would take the time to understand how this will effect the other weapons, and CCP takes into account how this effects their balancing issue the counter to working backwards just may stop. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 439	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:02:00 - [51] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171650 I made a thing. The amarr weapons are suppose to be much older, the suit is suppose to be made to use this weapon the best. The gun has a -20 to armor, which their suit is about armor. Currently Gallente suits have passive armor repair, the Minmitar still have a primary assault weapon that needs balancing. People that just want a buff in range are not looking at how will it effect the other weapons and their relation. The gallente assault rifles do not suffer from drawbacks in using it like the amarr weaponry. The rail rifle has a bit of a charge but it doesn't have a mechanic that gives this weapon some type of hang up. If anything its current stats need to be reduced for those who use that weapon making those particular assault suits the best. If people would take the time to understand how this will effect the other weapons, and CCP takes into account how this effects their balancing issue the counter to working backwards just may stop. You must use Amarr. Ever tried to pin people in from range with sustained fire while using a rail rifle and staying on target. Drawback of the RR is the kick over time and the charge up time, yet people only seem to see the charge up as a drawback on a weapon that has the highest kick of all the rifles.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:02:00 - [52] - Quote Since the kick on the RR is progressive it is useless all you have to do is stop firing for and instant to subvert this mechanic and with the charge so short there is no loss. In CQC the kick is beneficial as it works as a pseudo dispersion (focused fire into dispersed fire) giving the rail rifle such grand ability at range and CQC. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Ku Shala The Generals 982	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:05:00 - [53] - Quote as a caldari assault would like to see 2 things done to the suit reduced kick on RR and passive armour rep so you can fit regulators on std and adv suits easier, at range where the suit belongs its hard to carry enough nanos for repairs without gimping the suit. would also consider bonus to shield regulators, or a reduction to the amount of shield delay added by extenders like - 2% to delay on shield extenders *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18269	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:15:00 - [54] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gallente has the worst of both worlds by being forced to run inside sentinel chase range anyway, and not having the magazine. Now bluntly I'm not in favor of gallente and caldari being able to beat hmg sents on cqc in a straight fight. But can we give the assaults a bonus that makes the cqc equation less a sure thing and offer real options for engagement that carry over to more than simply reducing the die in a fire rate when forced into cqc with a sentinel with or without a logi. Sentinels are hard defense but if assaults are intended to attack CQC cap point a smart assault should have a way to fight that isn't dependent upon the 3v1 blueberry lemming rush. Bear in mind I think that running at the fatty should not become less lethal. But there need to be options that cater to smart tactics. This is one of my reasons for favouring a range bonus on the Galassault. It gets around this situation because it doesn't help take on sentinels in CQC at all - you're still going to have just as hard a time of it attacking heavies head on as you are now - but it caters to tactics by allowing you to engage from outside the killzone. An AR does not outrange a HMG by a healthy enough margin to survive a head on attack regardless of what range the AR user is trying to do it at present, because unless at the very edge ranges the HMG can strike back and if at those ranges it simply doesn't have the punch to down the sentinel before it gets to cover. With a range bonus (and it's worth noting that a 25% bonus wouldn't bring it up to the point where ARs are noticeably outranging CRs) it allows the AR user to engage in a small window where they can't easily be killed back by the HMG but it's feasible for them to down the sentinel. The present bonus just doesn't help at all. Recoil is utterly negligible on an assault rifle and is easily controllable even on the TAR. The hipfire is fine - after sharpshooter 5 nothing really gets helped by it. The assault plasma rifle hipfire is entirely adequate. The TAR receives some fringe benefits, I suppose. You cannot possibly need tighter hipfire on the breach plasma rifle, and the burst plasma rifle is in the same boat as the assault variant. Shotguns? Nobody uses shotguns on a Galassault unless they don't know what they're doing. A scout does it infinitely better. And they don't receive much benefit anyway. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:27:00 - [55] - Quote Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18270	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:48:00 - [56] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 91	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:11:00 - [57] - Quote I haz cal assault 5 I like to use "regen tanking" regulators, Rechargers and energizers I use pretty all the different caldari weapons, my assault mainly uses assault rails, knives ,bolt pistols and magsecs As for an additional weapon based bonus; 3-5% recoil reduction, fully skilled rail weapons(5% kick reduction lvl) along with reload skills (3% lvl) become very potent in a proto assaults hands, even on std or adv frames as long as you have the skills trained The recoil reduction allows the more trained operative to be able to sustain fire more accurately for longer durations. The other one for the dropsuit I really like 2-4% efficacy of shield regulators,energizers,recharges Incentivises regen tanking more, allowing u to edge optimal ranges and fight in bursts between cover Negatives of these are that they are already skills available, so some things may get out of hand. However neither bonus effects the assaults hp, range, dmg per shot, ROF That's my thoughts so far, I hope it helps. Il post any further ideas CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 87	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:24:00 - [58] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. Aye, I'd rather see that range increase come in, already posted a lengthy note on it here. The other popular alternative was ROF, but that's technically "off the table" too due to it being a damage buff. I don't really see much more that could be done boost the gun itself. Could we maybe start looking at bonuses to the suit itself? I'd rather not but I figure we should acknowledge that option is there. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3376	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:51:00 - [59] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. You are both correct. While an increase to the maximum range is likely outside the purview of this change set (and bearing that in mind is important) I am still completely open to hearing ideas and descriptions in that vein if people are inclined to put them forward. Simply be advised that they may not be actionable. Cheers, Cross EDIT: I've been catching up with the thread, and with some related messages on skype and the notion of increasing optimal range was brought up. This would not alter the absolute value of weapon ranges in any way, thus keeping their profile the same, however it would give better performance in that more of their total range would now (in the hands of a skilled assault) be within the weapons optimal. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1412	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:56:00 - [60] - Quote If the assault rifle gets a range buff I'd like to see it happen on the assault rifle itself, rather than be a bonus to the suit. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Did you read the thread m8? "Allow me to preemptively state that both direct range and direct damage buffs are likely off the table due to game wide weapons balance considerations and that the current intent of maintaining some degree of racial flavor within the bonus selected is indented to be maintained. That being said let's put our heads together and figure out a way to improve these racial buffs."- Cross atu Likely off the table, yes. That does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. Tl;dr "I know that it's off the table but I'm still going to cry about how bad I want an overpowered buff to MY suit." Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.



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