Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1212
   |
Posted - 2014.11.17 09:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:I think I'm gonna be hated on for this but I think all these spool-time/charge-time/range etc. bonuses on certain weapons will remain as garbage bonuses. The reason? They pinhole the suit into a specific weapon thus subverting all customization.
Stay with me here. Look at the Scout and Sentinel bonuses. Do you notice something? The bonuses every Scout and Sentinel gets applies to their suit REGARDLESS of how they fit it. They get base stat bonuses to scanning, hacking, damage reduction, etc. This allows them to use any fit they choose and STILL get a bonus from the suit. Why then can this logic not be applied to Medium Frames?
I simply don't understand the desire to force a Caldari Assault to only use Rail Rifles, a Gallente to only use an AR, etc. This completely goes against the logic of customizing your suit to your preferences. Can we not completely redo the bonuses such that the bonuses will be useful no matter the weapon?
This is honestly one of many reasons Assaults remain so lackluster.
How about this instead:
We balance the weapons accordingly and independently such that they're not complete garbage in the hands of anyone but their respective racial variant, and then proceed to give the suits according bonuses relative to their designed racial lore. Tune the rail rifle a bit. Take the Amarr bonus and apply it across the board to all laser weapons. THEN proceed to give each racial variant a useful Assault-oriented bonus.
I'm just making this up out of my ass but something like
Caldari gets some sort of shield regen/delay bonus.
Gallente gets armor repair/reduced armor usage penalties.
Minmatarr gets speed/stamina/shield regen or what have you.
Amarr gets some sort of hybrid shield/armor bonus or something.
Make the bonuses appealing and not pinhole the suit into a specific weapon. I want to run a Caldari Assault with a Combat Rifle because I like shields and I like burst-fire. Right now I can do that but my suit bonus does NOTHING for me.
Take the design philosophy from Scouts and Sentinels and apply it here. It doesn't make sense that Scouts and Sentinels get the privilege of completely free customization while the Medium Frames are limited to specific weapons. These bonuses could be 2ndary...the primary bonus to assaults should be the commando bonus of 10% damage but just make it flat for all weaponry...not racial only.
i disagree it should be racial only.
a heavy assault cruiser doesnt get a bonus to all weapons.
it gets a buff to its races weapons so people only use the proper weapons for that ship.
amarr suits should give the only laser bonuses.
min ships should give the only projectile bonuses.
and the gal and cal share hybrids like eve with bonuses that accent the different playstyles but still apply to everything.
honestly the bonuses should be robust enough that putting that gun on the wrong races suit is pointless to encourage proper racial playing.
unless your implying a 10% damage role bonus in addition to a robust racial bonus for each weapon with the secondary tank bonuses.
deimos.
its bonuses 50% hybrid damage. well 25+25
37.5 armor repair
and 50% fall off to hybrids
no one who trains to fly this ship or has the one money to buy one would be stupid enough to put lasers or autocannons on it. whats the point. no one in dust should be using non lasers on an amarr assault suit, non hybrids on cal/gal suits, or non projectile weapons on min suits without a steep disadvantage.
im not talking 50% damage on assault suits thats crazy.
but there needs to be a noticable difference in performance racially for your preferred weapons.
the standard suits need a small bonus for example.
standard caldari medium suit = moa
Caldari Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
4% bonus to all shield resistances
so for the cal suit. you need some a small hybrid buff.
and a small shield buff. be it hp, regulator, resistances. this makes it more accesible for new players as it has bonuses to help make it competitive and ideally it would be cheaper.
then you have the caldari assault suit which is the eagle.
Caldari Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
4% bonus to all shield resistances
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty
Now youve got the shield and damage bonus. Plus a hearty range bonus.
If your not using a hybrid on this youre just gimping yourself.
Notice how the first two bonuses scale with the cruiser skill, and the latter two only scale from the assault skill.
Bonuses need to be built into the suit and operate like this by scaling off of the suit skill, and the lower tier suits skill.
This is the only correct way to do it. Of course there needs to be a burst rail rifle as well as the other missing variants, or you can use the burst assault rifle which will also get buffed because its a hybrid weapon and therefore should be buffed.
Eve does not differentiate between blasters or railguns. and neither should dust, thats just how new eden is.
You should get no bonuses on a cal or gal suit to a non hybrid weapon. thats it. *unless its a drone bonus or missile bonus of course* using a combat rifle is inherrently wrong. your free to use one of course, but your giving up your buffs in trade of choice. thats how eve works.
ill continue in another post.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
|
Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 09:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
continued, see above post ^
this will apply to all standard unspecialized tech 1 light medium and heavy suits and be used as the framework for making the suits correctly.
each suit will have 2 bonuses racially themed that scale on the standard suit operation skill
"[Suit Bonuses]
Gallente Medium Bonuses (per skill level):
(1) 7.5% Armor repairer efficacy
(2) 5% hybrid whatever, damage, rof, hipfire, dispersion, kick, falloff, optimal range, clip size, etc, etc."
now at level 1 standard you get the 7.5 bonus to armor rep and the 5% bonuses to your hybrid weapon,
(be it a sniperrifle, railrifle, shotgun, ar, anything hybrid, which is fair and lore appropriate.)
now at level 5 you have a 37.5% armor repairer bonus and 25% (numbers can be altered however)
now that standard suit is more viable at level 1-5 against more experienced players as well as offering competitive non proto options. proto is just more slots for more money.
now the proposed assault would split these 2 bonuses.
1 which is the 7.5 repairer bonus. stays where it is and is affected again by standard medium frame operation.
now you have bonus 3 which is something different from a ferroscale or reactive plate buff, to another hybrid weapon buff.
now in the second grouping we are going off the assault suit operation skill
thats where bonus 2 now resides from before.
and a fourth bonus that is another weapon bonus.
to summarize.
standard medium suit
skill a
bonus 1
bonus 2
assault suit
skill a
bonus 1
bonus 3
skill b (assault skill)
bonus 2
bonus 4
and finally a role bonus for the assault suit.
this is not set in stone. it can be changed. for example. an amarr assault suit could be all laser weapons bonuses like the omen. from rof for the scrambler pistol and ascr. fall off, and optimal range, as well as overheat. now the assault suit is a laser platform. or a mix of armor and weapons bonuses. from armor resistances, to plate hp and so on.
some suits might share bonuses.
now the standard medium suit is fixed, it would be made cheaper than the more robust assault and logi suits.
(logi suits would gain bonuses as well but were talking about assaults at the moment)
and it has a place as a racial suit that is more anything goes.
imo the assault suit should lose its equipment slot in this case in exchange for the new robust bonuses.
your going to be harder to kill and youll do more damage, but you will be less versatile and will rely on your squad and team for things your not equipped to handle. ( racial tanks your not good against, vehicles, ammo, etc etc.)
personally id rather give up the sidearm and grenade as i dont use them, but that is purely subjective. i will use an equipment slot for a compact nanohive over a sidearm or grenade anyday if i cant fit all three. therefor it is the most valuable and versatile slot of the three imo and makes sense to take it off. or dont. thats up to you guys and the devs.
scouts would have no tank bonuses where the mediums do. so mediums should feel less outperformed by tanked scouts.
as well as giving more combat bonuses to unspecialized light suits, giveing the scouts purely ewarfare and equipment bonuses.
logis would be given first and foremost a bonus to their races repairer.
so range and healing for cal to a shield repaired and maybe multi targets and more healing for a min shield tool.
in this case the amarr and gal would take ownership of the new armor repair tool, ( 2 variants, 1 gal skinned, 1 amarr skinned)
and do the same. and trade offs would be the tool that heals the most has least range.
or the longest range tool has least healing.
a tool that does multi targets splits its healing between targets. so if it was 60hp per second.
once you do a second target. it splits to 30 for each target. and divides again in the same way proportionately until its max targets is reached. in this case 3 targets would get 20hp.
of course this is just going into depth for the plans to balance out the other suits as well.
this is how eve works.
eve is balanced.
by balancing like this dust will be balanced.
eve parity = balance.
we just need to adjust the values properly and copy the system eve has in place already.
dust is in the state its in because they tried to reinvent the wheel so to speak.
it didnt work.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
|