Yes, might as well kill the forge too. The HMG and now the forge guns, while we are at it we might as well cut the heavies shield and armor by half.

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

The fact making the forge gun less effective vs infantry would ruin it when ITS AN ANTI VEHICLE WEAPON proves my point, it's not balanced.

It's an accurate anti-vehicle weapon.

I mean, unless you're intending they do idiotic magic-balance like the Lancer in Planetside 2, which does almost no damage to infantry while hammering vehicles with no explanation or anything, I'm not sure how you're proposing that we nerf accuracy on it without making it less effective at long-range AV, which is what it was designed for.

But it's a better anti infantry weapon than it is an AV weapon

tbh the lancer from planetside 2 isn't a bad idea, so what if you can't explain it with lore? what's more important, GAME BALANCE, or LORE?

But it's a better anti infantry weapon than it is an AV weapon

tbh the lancer from planetside 2 isn't a bad idea, so what if you can't explain it with lore? what's more important, GAME BALANCE, or LORE?

As an anti infantry weapon it requires really good aiming.

As an anti infantry weapon it requires really good aiming.

a. Why shouldn't AV weapons be able to kill infantry?
I just don't see why that would be the case. Swarms, yes, they need to lock and swarm, etc, but the forge gun is a big 'ol railgun, using the same tech as a sniper rifle- of course it damages infantry.
b.
Have you ever tried FG sniping? I'm not saying it's impossible or even extremely difficult, but it does take skill. You get no ADS and the fattest, ugliest reticule ever, which doesn't stay perfectly steady but continuously vibrates slightly. Hitting with a 2.5m splash radius from 200m with a reticle that covers probably a 10+ meter radius is tricky, so while they're technically very accurate, making use of that accuracy is tough.
3 second refire is hardly madness, and don't forget that it's limited to 16 shots without squad support (since no heavies can carry nanohives). A good forge can kill infantry, but it's not easy, and any sort of flank/rush or a missed CQC shot and the FG loses due to the slow refire rate. Plus, the FG lights up like a signal beacon for any snipers/tacs/other FGs, so sniping with it from high ground is a good way to die.

Your QQ holds no water.

But it's a better anti infantry weapon than it is an AV weapon

tbh the lancer from planetside 2 isn't a bad idea, so what if you can't explain it with lore? what's more important, GAME BALANCE, or LORE?

So a gun designed to damage vehicles should not be able to damage a dropsuit? Quit crying, probably just mad you lost a proto suit.

And that's the point.

If you have good aim, you deserve to blap anyone on the map.

The point about the Lancer is that it's very similar to the Forge Gun, but having the skill to hit infantry with it - which isn't easy - is unfairly penalized.

If it was a problem, I think it would show up on these lists:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

As it is, it makes sense that something that can punch a tank and make him feel it would one-shot infantry. I've tried using it as anti-infantry in the past, and it's very difficult. If you can chew dropsuits up with it, good for you...you're some combination of very skilled and talented with it. In general, it's not a problem, though.

You give someone a proto forge gun, stick them on a roof with a mouse, and they're going to go 20/0 by killing people with splash damage WHILE USING AN AV WEAPON

tell me that isn't completely stupid.

What are you doing that's getting you forge sniped enough to complain about it? I rarely get hit with a forge gun as infantry, are you standing still with an MD on a roof or something? Getting FG'd sucks, but it doesn't need to be nerfed at all.

Free fire means it's a hybrid of AV and vehicle.

I use the forge gun against everything, and it has its flaws. Sure, a direct hit OHKs, but I have to charge it for what- 2 and a half seconds? In that time you can just run out and kill me.

i have over 200 million ISK and haven't worn an advanced suit since uprising hit.

I really couldn't care less if I lose a protosuit, kiddo.

the fact an AV weapon in the king of anti infantry is full ******.

I never stand still, I'm a 550 shield assault with an AR/SR, so i'm always bobbing and weaving, even when there's nobody near me.


@ the guy complaining about the mouse, you can get just as good results with a controller, depending on what you're better with.

The recent update has made them stupid accurate, i'm seeing more forge guns killing infantry than at any point in dust.

You have 550 shields. You are well protected from a fully proto'd sniper build but there is still a ranged weapon that can OHK you. The Forge gun is not OP simply because you can be OHK.

It is only king of the hill if you let it get up high, and if you then let it stay up there.

Both of which are failures on the part of your team.

If you want to call the forge gun king of antiinfantry then it would regularly pop you on even ground while you dump AT then FLP the fatty.

If you want to call something that requires a dropship, logi, and a heavy OP instead of admitting you refuse to alter your playstyle to facts on the ground, why shouldn't we just laugh at you?

I'm sorry but my alts a hvy noob with a forgegun and In PC matchs I can destroy very very skilled players with just splash damage. Its a joke.

In pub matchs who cares you just dont go into the fields of fire but in games that people really want to win you dont get that option.

forge gun splash kills me in two hits, and so does a sniper rifle

the only difference being you actually have to aim with a sniper which takes some degree of skill

oh yeah, and the sniper rifle isn't an AV weapon.

Two hits with a forge gun takes a relatively long time to fire. I think this is a huge reason why many people won't take this seriously.

you can make the same argument with the flaylock pistol not needing to be adjusted

LOL JUST CHANGE UR PLAYSTYLE ITS UR FAULT is a stupid mentality when there's clearly something wrong with forge guns being one of the best anti infantry weapons.

Not at all.

Is the FG a good anti infantry weapon on the ground? Hell no, unless you suck or they are exceptional.

So what you are complaining about is someone minimizing the drawbacks of their weapons system. That is tactics. Just because you as an assault troop have no reply means the the FG isn't an idiot.

Don't be mad that you got outsmarted just think some more.

actually even with slight elevation a forge gun can ruin your day

it's obviously not a CQC weapon......it's an AV weapon, made for long range..they're using the weapon as it's intended to be used, except against infantry and not vehicles.



how about you keep the forge gun how it is, and let me hit heavies with AV nades, and we'll call it a day?

actually even with slight elevation a forge gun can ruin your day

it's obviously not a CQC weapon......it's an AV weapon, made for long range..they're using the weapon as it's intended to be used, except against infantry and not vehicles.



how about you keep the forge gun how it is, and let me hit heavies with AV nades, and we'll call it a day?

So, even though it wouldn't change what you are crying about, you would be ok qith current situation as long as you had a seeking OHK nade for the slowest suit?

I wouldn't care if you have better gungame than everyone, you are now a scrub.

No, that post was supposed to show the stupidity of an AV weapon being able to kill infantry effectively.

My fault for expecting it NOT to go over your head.

actually even with slight elevation a forge gun can ruin your day

it's obviously not a CQC weapon......it's an AV weapon, made for long range..they're using the weapon as it's intended to be used, except against infantry and not vehicles.



how about you keep the forge gun how it is, and let me hit heavies with AV nades, and we'll call it a day?

Keep crying while you throw thukker nades and show your sweet bunny hopping ar skills.

I swear the AR guys wont be happy until there is nothing but themselves to fight.

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

I don't use contact nades, the regular ones are much better because they take skill to use

it's not a matter of variety, it's a matter of an AV weapon being OP against infantry

I've said a fun change would be to do reduced dmg to infantry but knock them back as the shockwave of the energy wave hits them before the blast. But the reason it does more dmg to tanks is because the shockwave doesn't move the tank away from the true dmging blase. A direct hit would still likely want to one shot infantry, but OHKs in general would be less and knocking people back is always fun.

It is only op if you refuse to counter it. Which means it isnt op.

Stop crying.

Sure, let me counter a forge gun on the roof

hold on let me just fly my duct tape drop ship up there an--

oh he shot me down before i even got off the ground

okay i'll just climb up there and--

oh he's on a roof with no ladder

okay, i'll just snipe him--

oh, there's no good angle to get a shot on him since he's on the tallest structure in the game, surrounded by cover

yeah, my fault for not countering them as an assault player, CLEARLY no adjustment is needed for an AV weapon destroying infantry.

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

are you normal ? ok ill stop forging when the llavs and flaylocks get a little better in check .. and btw again imma say this so accurate THERE IS NO AIMING THAT THING ITS HIP FIRE ONLY NO L1 NO ADS NOTHING POINT PRAY AND AS FOR SPLASH YOU MUST BE NEW HERE THEY DID NUKE SPLASH DAMAGE it has less the you precious massdriver and flaylock ... its a gun that you acutaly have to get good with there is no close enough it has to be within 6 inches to hurt you ... wow

you have to charge it that takes a second
the round leaving is kinda slow you have to lead people
there is no ads you get 4 rounds a clip
there is hardly any splash damage
extrmely fast recharge speed ? what .... huh

only thing that can explain this ammount of stupid is inbreeding or drugs

There is clearly something wrong with this kid, or he is just trolling. Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese, done with this clown.

Next qq thread please.

Are you high? HARDLY ANY SPLASH DAMAGE? LOL then how is my 550+ sheild protosuit getting killed in two splash hits from a proto FG across the map on the tallest structure in the game?

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

When not firing towards a vehicle, it should gain crazy weird dispersion past medium range.

This keeps it from being used at long range against infantry, but you can still kind of make it work if they're really close; putting you in harms way.

This coming from a forge gunner who thinks this is faaaar too easy, and my controller screws with my aim :/

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

When not firing towards a vehicle, it should gain crazy weird dispersion past medium range.

This keeps it from being used at long range against infantry, but you can still kind of make it work if they're really close; putting you in harms way.

This coming from a forge gunner who thinks this is faaaar too easy, and my controller screws with my aim :/

Are you high? HARDLY ANY SPLASH DAMAGE? LOL then how is my 550+ sheild protosuit getting killed in two splash hits from a proto FG across the map on the tallest structure in the game?

Because unlike the flaylock and MD... you know what this is is too obvious you use your brain and find the difference between the flaylock/MD and forge guns.

With Forge Gun Proficiency at level 5, you get a 15% bonus to damage. Throw on two complex heavy damage modifiers and you get another 20%, minus the stacking penalty. For the purposes of this post, I'll lower it to 15% (if someone could give me the actual number, it would be much appreciated). In total, that gives you a 30% damage bonus. Base splash damage for all proto forge guns is 277.2 (advanced and standard tiers have lower splash damage). 277.2 times 1.30 equals 360.36. 2 shots equal 720.72, 3 shots equal 1081.08 and four shots equal 1441.44. If your EHP (armor + shields) was higher than 720.72 at the time, then you were probably hit by splash damage followed by a direct hit. However, I did not factor in the reduced damage to shields and increased damage to armor.

Like I said earlier, you have to keep in mind that reducing the forge gun's splash damage also decreases its effectiveness against fast-moving vehicles.

Its a hybrid weapon it's dealing damage equally around the board. Unless we have 3 AV weapons that only hurt armor which would be a screw up on CCPs part.

With Forge Gun Proficiency at level 5, you get a 15% bonus to damage. Throw on two complex heavy damage modifiers and you get another 20%, minus the stacking penalty. For the purposes of this post, I'll lower it to 15% (if someone could give me the actual number, it would be much appreciated). In total, that gives you a 30% damage bonus. Base splash damage for all proto forge guns is 277.2 (advanced and standard tiers have lower splash damage). 277.2 times 1.30 equals 360.36. 2 shots equal 720.72, 3 shots equal 1081.08 and four shots equal 1441.44. If your EHP (armor + shields) was higher than 720.72 at the time, then you were probably hit by splash damage followed by a direct hit. However, I did not factor in the reduced damage to shields and increased damage to armor.

Like I said earlier, you have to keep in mind that reducing the forge gun's splash damage also decreases its effectiveness against fast-moving vehicles.

i'm aware it's a hybrid damage weapon. the fact it's two shotting a suit with 550 shields still stands. you'd get two-shotted with 550 armor, too.

Numbers don't lie, nobody else finds it a problem an AV weapon can do 720+ damage worth of SPLASH in a couple of seconds FROM ANY DISTANCE?

AND ITS AN AV WEAPON

AN
ANTI
VEHICLE
WEAPON

Numbers don't lie, nobody else finds it a problem an AV weapon can do 720+ damage worth of SPLASH in a couple of seconds FROM ANY DISTANCE?

AND ITS AN AV WEAPON

AN
ANTI
VEHICLE
WEAPON

You give someone a proto forge gun, stick them on a roof with a mouse, and they're going to go 20/0 by killing people with splash damage WHILE USING AN AV WEAPON

the only difference being you actually have to aim with a sniper which takes some degree of skill

Actually, with the charge up skill reduction, it will take less than 2.5 seconds.

[


Two hits with a forge gun takes a relatively long time to fire. I think this is a huge reason why many people won't take this seriously.

Numbers don't lie, nobody else finds it a problem an AV weapon can do 720+ damage worth of SPLASH in a couple of seconds FROM ANY DISTANCE?

AND ITS AN AV WEAPON

AN
ANTI
VEHICLE
WEAPON

Yes, might as well kill the forge too. The HMG and now the forge guns, while we are at it we might as well cut the heavies shield and armor by half.

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

20-0? I call absolute horsepucky on this number. I'm not saying this isn't possible, but I highly doubt this is an average round for a forge gunner, even a good one. I'm pretty good at forge sniping, and I go on average 6-10 kills for a Dom. If I went 20-0, it was because I got some tank kills where the crew didn't bail when they should have, or some murder taxi crew that didn't bail for the same reason, or some dumb sniper that keep spawning in the same spot that didn't think I could see him, or I got some extra OB kills, or I was able to hit assault guys that weren't bobbing and weaving like they should. In other words, I went 20-0 not because my forge gun is OP, but because your team played badly.

Numbers don't lie, nobody else finds it a problem an AV weapon can do 720+ damage worth of SPLASH in a couple of seconds FROM ANY DISTANCE?

AND ITS AN AV WEAPON

AN
ANTI
VEHICLE
WEAPON

i highly doubt a no name noob is going to give me any trouble in a pub match

your threats are unwarranted, childish, and to be quite honest not very intimidating.

if you were arguing realism with the forge gun, run the numbers on the description, it should instantly atomize anything it touches and keep going. in the name of BALANCE, the forge gun shouldn't be this effective of an anti-infantry weapon.

Exactly, good players dominate with this tactic, and they shouldn't. Less than 2 seconds to charge the assault variant at max skills with the splash it has is just unacceptable.

try going up against a competent forge gun in a PC match when he has team support, good luck finding a counter that isn't "get my forge gun there first" which just re-affirms the problem here.

LOL I CAN USE CAPS TOO!!!

WHO
SAID
THE FORGE
IS
AN
ANTI-VEHICLE
WEAPON ONLY????

The max range is 300 meters, not FROM ANY DISTANCE. stop making **** up to support your flawed logic.

720 in a couple of seconds? A couple is 2... pretty sure the charge up time for the assault variant is 2.5 seconds for 1 shot. Again, you are exaggerating a point to support your flawed logic.

Scroll back a few posts, I already posted the DUST 514 description of the Forge Gun. Nowhere in that description does it say "anti-vehicle only". developer descriptions dont lie. Numbers dont lie either, if you only knew how to be sporadic in your movement you wouldnt get hit with 3-4 straight splash hits. You need better situational awareness, communication and teamwork in your squad. Learn to counter the tactic.

Just because YOU think in YOUR little brain that this weapon is AV only does not make that a fact. This seems to be the only basis for your argument, that in YOUR OPINION an AV weapon should not be able to kill infantry. your opinion is wrong, many of us have said this already, yet you keep flailing your arms in a feeble attemp to get this weapon nerfed.

you are a troll, a tool, and nothing more.

Learn 2 play, scrub.

Go back in the thread and see my earlier posts for a list of options. Actually, since the backspace key might be too much for you to operate, here is a short list:

1. Sniper
2. Rail tank
3. DS full of Assault troops, approaching from the blind side, with a sniper to keep the fatty away from the approach.
4. OB the rooftop.

Would you say that Cubs is a competent forge gunner? Because I came back from a DC in a Zion vs TP match to see void echo pick him off a roof with a rail gun from the deployment.

So stop crying, because you just make yourself look bad.

You're not too bright, are you? Proto assault variant actually charges in LESS than two seconds, so yes, a couple of seconds LOL

For the third time, making it less effective against infantry by lowering the splash damage and/or radius would also make it less effective against certain vehicles. If anything needs to be reworked, it's the map designs that allow us to do this.

You claimed that the forge gun can deal over 720 points of splash damage in less than two seconds, but the truth is that it's only half of that.

You're not too bright, are you? Proto assault variant actually charges in LESS than two seconds, so yes, a couple of seconds LOL

it's pretty clear the forge gun is made for AV, just like the swarm launcher.

Forge gun is now destroying infantry worse than any other point i can remember, so it's time CCP takes a look at the splash damage/radius/accuracy. it's not a matter of opinion, it's just logical thinking, there needs to be some sort of adjustment made, and almost any non-forge gunner will tell you that.

how many tanks and dropships have you killed with the SPLASH DAMAGE of a forge gun? probably zero.

with team support, every dropship is called out and promptly shot out of the sky, OBs like to not work on rooftops, and snipers will have an extremely difficult time killing a heavy who's headglitching a forge gun off the tallest tower on the map.

Well, take into account time for the shot to land, and it takes around four seconds to get two hits with the Ishukone FG. So it is in fact more than a couple seconds, but that is a mild distinction.




I do not agree, and have seen no dev posts on the matter to confirm such a thing. You may think it is AV only, whereas most of us classify it as an AM weapon. Which is what it really is.



Forge gun has many counters, you just refuse to use them. That is your teams fault, not the people using the FG. Tell your team to focus on the fundamentals and you won't be getting forged so much.

I'm talking about LAVs, but splash damage does help against tanks. As a matter a fact, I killed a tank with splash damage yesterday.


I was also killed by an orbital on the tallest tower in the game yesterday.

"With Forge Gun Proficiency at level 5, you get a 15% bonus to damage. Throw on two complex heavy damage modifiers and you get another 20%, minus the stacking penalty. For the purposes of this post, I'll lower it to 15% (if someone could give me the actual number, it would be much appreciated). In total, that gives you a 30% damage bonus. Base splash damage for all proto forge guns is 277.2 (advanced and standard tiers have lower splash damage). 277.2 times 1.30 equals 360.36. 2 shots equal 720.72, 3 shots equal 1081.08 and four shots equal 1441.44."

Try reading the thread before you post.

It's only 4 seconds if you know he's there, and you'd be able to avoid it by hiding from him. otherwise he's waiting with a charged shot, and between the travel time, you getting hit, you realize you're getting hit, it's going to be much less than 2 seconds.

with team support, every dropship is called out and promptly shot out of the sky, OBs like to not work on rooftops, and snipers will have an extremely difficult time killing a heavy who's headglitching a forge gun off the tallest tower on the map.

the fact you actually had an active tank in a match vs TP is amazing enough, let alone the one and a thousand shot to hit someone across the entire map with a railgun. how many people did cubs forge to death before you got a lucky shot on him? 5? 10? 20?

You do know that you can't hold a charge with the assault forge gun, right? Also, during the match in which I was killed by the orbital, the enemy was keeping me suppressed with sniper rifles. I only got one kill that match.

I can vouch for Gem Cutter. He has unerring accuracy. Incidentally, he was one of the snipers keeping me suppressed during the match in which I got killed by an orbital.

i wasn't even aware i fought against you in a pc match. no idea cubs was on the roof, or anything about a tank. i focus on what i do, not worry about who i'm up against, and play my game.

synergy has the best sniper core in the game, there's no doubt about it. That isn't the issue. it has nothing to do with my team. it has nothing to do with the tactics to counter it.

there's tactics to counter the flaylock pistol, but i don't see anyone posting them, instead everyone is whining about them.

how can you sit here and tell me killing someone with 700 ehp in less than two seconds from hundreds of meters away is okay? not even the flaylock pistol can do that.

So you must think the sniper rifle is broken as well right? I mean I can kill guys with that much health from hundreds of meters away with a headshot
Hell the bullet even travels faster and I get to zoom in on my target making it even easier

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

i wasn't even aware i fought against you in a pc match. no idea cubs was on the roof, or anything about a tank. i focus on what i do, not worry about who i'm up against, and play my game.

synergy has the best sniper core in the game, there's no doubt about it. That isn't the issue. it has nothing to do with my team. it has nothing to do with the tactics to counter it.

there's tactics to counter the flaylock pistol, but i don't see anyone posting them, instead everyone is whining about them.

how can you sit here and tell me killing someone with 700 ehp in less than two seconds from hundreds of meters away is okay? not even the flaylock pistol can do that.

No, because after the first shot, you can zig-zag to avoid fire, there's no ez-mode no-skill splash damage to save a sniper.

if you manage to one-shot me with a headshot, congratulations, you actually took your time to aim and shoot, you have earned your kill

If you have the best snipers, then they can suppress an enemy heavy on a roof. Otherwise they are not worth being called the best anything.

The only way you are getting killed in less than two seconds with 700 hp is if you get direct hit. Otherwise it takes at least two shots, which takes at least four seconds. How you have not gotten this yet is amazing.

You are right that the flaylock doesn't kill people in 4 seconds, it actually does it much faster.

Do you complain this much when you get killed by the mass driver? Because any tactic you use for dodging MD rounds would work just as well for evading a FG trying to peg you.

What this really boils down to is that you don't like the fact that someone can mess you up from beyond AR range. Whereas if your team had done their job, the guy with the FG never would have gotten up there in the first place.

The fact that Charlotte and I agree means that this thread has officially turned the forum into Bizarro world.

Try reading the thread before you post.

with team support, every dropship is called out and promptly shot out of the sky, OBs like to not work on rooftops, and snipers will have an extremely difficult time killing a heavy who's headglitching a forge gun off the tallest tower on the map.

the fact you actually had an active tank in a match vs TP is amazing enough, let alone the one and a thousand shot to hit someone across the entire map with a railgun. how many people did cubs forge to death before you got a lucky shot on him? 5? 10? 20?

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

When tankers defend forge guns, you know the OP wasn't very bright.

It's a ANTI-MATERIEL gun. Maybe reduce the splash radius a little. But don't make it a "You have to hit it right on" gun.

If it hits you directly on, it should kill you.

RPG's are a anti vehicle gun, but doesn't mean it can't be fired into a group of infantry.

I say leave it alone, its the only gun that works right.

When not firing towards a vehicle, it should gain crazy weird dispersion past medium range.

This keeps it from being used at long range against infantry, but you can still kind of make it work if they're really close; putting you in harms way.

This coming from a forge gunner who thinks this is faaaar too easy, and my controller screws with my aim :/

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

On a point elsewhere in this thread: the argument that splash damage is necessary for LAVs is patently ridiculous, I'm sorry. 330ish splash damage every 2-3 seconds isn't going to make an LAV flinch. The FG only works against them with a direct hit, so nerfing splash damage wouldn't negatively affect the AV aspect at all.

ED: One other way to fix the FG without changing its stats? Make it so the reticule never turns red. Problem fixed.

I made a thread like this a few months ago, it got 11 pages, and everyone thought I was trolling.

I'm not.

Forge guns are so hyper accurate they're arguably the best anti-infantry weapon when you have the high ground...huge splash damage and extremely fast re-fire speed, you have maybe 3 seconds to find cover once you take splash damage from a proto forge gun...that is, if you weren't outright one-shotted by the splash damage.

These are AV WEAPONS and SHOULD NOT be able to kill infantry.

They SHOULD NOT function better than sniper rifles as anti infantry.

Splash damage needs to be reduced to almost nothing, the fact you can take out ~400 shields with 1 splash of a good FG puts the flaylock pistol to shame

Please CCP, this forge gun madness has to stop.

here's the 11 page thread if anyone is interested.

This thread is still up? Forge Guns don't need further tweaks.

If you have the best snipers, then they can suppress an enemy heavy on a roof. Otherwise they are not worth being called the best anything.

The only way you are getting killed in less than two seconds with 700 hp is if you get direct hit. Otherwise it takes at least two shots, which takes at least four seconds. How you have not gotten this yet is amazing.

You are right that the flaylock doesn't kill people in 4 seconds, it actually does it much faster.

Do you complain this much when you get killed by the mass driver? Because any tactic you use for dodging MD rounds would work just as well for evading a FG trying to peg you.

What this really boils down to is that you don't like the fact that someone can mess you up from beyond AR range. Whereas if your team had done their job, the guy with the FG never would have gotten up there in the first place.

Stop trying to make this something it isn't...this has nothing to do with suppression tactics..the forge gun is too good of an anti infantry weapon since the aiming fix.

Forge Gun Timeline:

Day 1: Forge gunners get raped in CQC and at range due to steep learning curve. Gunners realize that the weapon is only viable at range or against large targets. Assault yell "LOL GG scrubs!"

Day 10: Kinda getting the hang of this, and have tasted blood. concentrating on supporting the allies by removing LAvs, dropships and the occasional idiot tank. still die to infantry. "LOL GG Scrub! Get gun game!"

Day 60: Competence has been achieved and the gunner by now is using his choice of a breach for max power or an assault for rapid deployment of pain. Routinely kills enemy infantry at range, about once every 2-4 shots. Still humping nanohives and supply depots as our lifeline. The mocking cries of Get Good Scrub are oddly silent as we destroy the fifth vehicle of the match.

Day 90: Advanced tactics come full circle. Forge gunner realizes patience and position are the keys to killing everything. Attacking from defilade (Hiogh ground for you uneducated scrubs) permits more accurate attack on any target, and provides clear view of dropship and LAV approaches. Forge gunner finds a spot and proceeds to mop the floor with the ass of anyone who moves close eough to target, concentrating on killing before they get inside 50m, and swapping to grenades and SMG if they do. People realize the Forge Gunners have gotten good. They are no longer scrubs.

Day 91: the QQ and cries of being OP begin when people start mistaking skillshots, tactics and battlefield awareness for having an overpowered weapon that still gets chopped to chutney at close range.

Today: the whining and crying is reminiscent of an infant child in a crib trying desperately to tell mommy that he pooped himself and he hates feeling all squishy and stinky.

Get the hell over it. A forge gun is a slow firing weapon that rides on a slow-ass dropsuit that couldn't dodge a three year old with a pointy stick, with a low ammunition count and a dispersion rate that makes the assault scrambler look positively pinpoint-accurate. If you stand in the open, or stand still for the 2-6 seconds it takes to charge you deserve to get blapped.

I point to the argument everyone flings at heavies like monkey with poo when we say we have historically been outranged, out DPS'd and outgunned: Quit standing in the open and start using cover you idiot.

Kobrah, is the FG too good on the ground?

Is your AR unable to drop a heavy before he charges and fires?

Are heavies all dropping their HMG to use a forge?

What you are complaining about is tactics, but instead of countering the tactic you want to need the forge.

Less QQ, more swwwwwwwwwphwm boom.

and you'd be hard pressed to find an AR that can take down a heavy in less than 2 seconds from a distance.

Numbers don't lie, nobody else finds it a problem an AV weapon can do 720+ damage worth of SPLASH in a couple of seconds FROM ANY DISTANCE?

AND ITS AN AV WEAPON

AN
ANTI
VEHICLE
WEAPON

even if i concede the fact it's not meant for AV, it's still too good vs infantry right now.

so the average requirement of 3-4 shots to kill an infantryman makes it too good? this is if you don't instablap them in the first two shots. instablap is a skillshot.

I'm not taking about the hail mary **** where you hit three damaged guys clustered in a corner.

Go use the forge gun. Do not reload from a hive or a supply depot.

tell me how many kills you get for each load of ammunition. how often do you die?

does your KD go up or down?

lol 3 shots? two splash from a good forge gun will kill almost any suit.

not a properly fit advanced or proto assault or logi.

if you're talking about shitfits, cheapfits and freefits, you lose all credibility with me

lol 3 shots? two splash from a good forge gun will kill almost any suit.

If you're complaining about a breach forge gun you have lost all credibility with me. if you hold still or stay in the open long enough to get hit with two breach shots you have lost all right to call yourself anything but free warpoints.

two shots will hit for around 750 damage if you only get splash. most two-shot hits with an ishukone assault forge (which I use) involve a ranging shot for splash, and a direct hit for the killshot if you do it right. I'm stupidly good at this combo between 40 and 70 meters.

Caldari assault and logi have in excess of 800 HP when fit properly. still have 50 HP left after two splashes.

Gallente assault and logi have potentially much higher, but if they go that way, they get instablapped by direct hits because they farking SLOW.

You're a moron if you think any caldari assault worth half his weight is running around with 800 EHP and shows you know little about the game

Oh dear God if you believe that I want you in every single game on the opposing team so I can farm you for easy warpoints with everything from a MLT assault rifle to a boundless HMG to a Forge Gun to a cheap seat plasma cannon.

You are nothing more than free warpoints to all comers. I have no sympathy for you, nor will I lend your complaints any further credence.

And my assault scrambler. must not forget my assault scram.

that's cute, call me when you drop 30 kills in a PC match against a good corp and then we can discuss who's better at this game.

a. Why shouldn't AV weapons be able to kill infantry?
I just don't see why that would be the case. Swarms, yes, they need to lock and swarm, etc, but the forge gun is a big 'ol railgun, using the same tech as a sniper rifle- of course it damages infantry.
b.
Have you ever tried FG sniping? I'm not saying it's impossible or even extremely difficult, but it does take skill. You get no ADS and the fattest, ugliest reticule ever, which doesn't stay perfectly steady but continuously vibrates slightly. Hitting with a 2.5m splash radius from 200m with a reticle that covers probably a 10+ meter radius is tricky, so while they're technically very accurate, making use of that accuracy is tough.
3 second refire is hardly madness, and don't forget that it's limited to 16 shots without squad support (since no heavies can carry nanohives). A good forge can kill infantry, but it's not easy, and any sort of flank/rush or a missed CQC shot and the FG loses due to the slow refire rate. Plus, the FG lights up like a signal beacon for any snipers/tacs/other FGs, so sniping with it from high ground is a good way to die.

Your QQ holds no water.

I never stand still, I'm a 550 shield assault with an AR/SR, so i'm always bobbing and weaving, even when there's nobody near me.


@ the guy complaining about the mouse, you can get just as good results with a controller, depending on what you're better with.

You have 550 shields. You are well protected from a fully proto'd sniper build but there is still a ranged weapon that can OHK you. The Forge gun is not OP simply because you can be OHK.

You claimed that the forge gun can deal over 720 points of splash damage in less than two seconds, but the truth is that it's only half of that.

You, just dont know your weapons, the Basic level of damage is not far short of 600, with no mods. So yes in a time period of LESS than 2 seconds 720 would be obtainable in splash damage.

H.D

Assault proto mad about the fat slow heavy with the charge up weapon with no zoom?

Cool story bro.

Do you cry about snipers too?

If you don't like FG use from up high, either:

1) Snipe them.
2) Rail tank/installation them.
3) Storm the roof with a well fit DS.
4) OB them once you get the WP.

That is incorrect, Heavenly Daughter. The base splash damage for all prototype forge guns is 277.2. Not even close to 720, even with damage mods and Forge Gun Proficiency at level 5. I use the Ishukone Assault Forge Gun every day, so I know what it's capable of.

Yes that correct, partly, One of those weapons is capable of doing 2 shots in less than 2 seconds. so 277.2 X 2 plus the damage mods plus what you get from the forging skills will push it over 700.

Yes that correct, partly, One of those weapons is capable of doing 2 shots in less than 2 seconds. so 277.2 X 2 plus the damage mods plus what you get from the forging skills will push it over 700.

Actually It does, You ask Why should an AV weapon not kill infantry, for exactly the same reason and infantry weapon cannot take out vehicles, they have a 10% effectiveness, so this imbalance still needs to be addressed.

H.D

This is also false. It takes roughly 2 seconds to charge up the assault variant with Forge Gun Operation at level 5, so in reality firing two shots takes about 4 seconds. It is mathematically impossible to fire two forge run rounds in less than two seconds, unless there is a special version of the assault variant that I have yet to encounter.

277 x 1.2 (we shall assume that the stacking penalty got removed and heavies can only have two)

why that comes to...332.4 so 2 shots =

664.8 splash damage.

tankable on anything but a scout.

Oh by the way, Kobrah, you are quick to dismiss people as scrubs who can't hack it.

Here's a hint: No one cares what you think. You're mad because someone figured out how to use a weapon you're incapable of using to smear you all over the battlefield and now you want it screwed because you're offended that heavies can be relevant. It's a common problem.

It's a shocker, I know, that not everyone considers your opinion relevant. But I'm sure you will cope somehow.

Your little temper tantrums undermine your position when people use LOGIC to derail your arguments. It's a given that you can fit to tank forge gun splash.

I'm sorry you think doing so is beneath you. I'll call Free Beers to hold your Hand. He won't nova knife you I promise.

that flash of light followed by the respawn screen was my forge gun killing you.

Yes that correct, partly, One of those weapons is capable of doing 2 shots in less than 2 seconds. so 277.2 X 2 plus the damage mods plus what you get from the forging skills will push it over 700.

It's called the "blackmagic special" Assault Forge Win Gun. The Devs give them to Goons to ruin DUST don't you know.

i though the final charge time was 1.875 not 1.2 O_o or am i wrong here.

+15% with Forge Gun Proficiency at level 5.

i though the final charge time was 1.875 not 1.2 O_o or am i wrong here.

1.2 is the multiplier you use for two complex damage mods. the max a heavy can use.

Jesus is math really that hard?

BTW it's actually lower than 1.2 because of stacking penalties but you know... :effort:

Yes, the swarm launcher used to be free fire too, and it was changed with absolutely no lore reason given.

277 x 1.2 (we shall assume that the stacking penalty got removed and heavies can only have two)

why that comes to...332.4 so 2 shots =

664.8 splash damage.

tankable on anything but a scout.

Oh by the way, Kobrah, you are quick to dismiss people as scrubs who can't hack it.

Here's a hint: No one cares what you think. You're mad because someone figured out how to use a weapon you're incapable of using to smear you all over the battlefield and now you want it screwed because you're offended that heavies can be relevant. It's a common problem.

It's a shocker, I know, that not everyone considers your opinion relevant. But I'm sure you will cope somehow.

Your little temper tantrums undermine your position when people use LOGIC to derail your arguments. It's a given that you can fit to tank forge gun splash.

I'm sorry you think doing so is beneath you. I'll call Free Beers to hold your Hand. He won't nova knife you I promise.

that flash of light followed by the respawn screen was my forge gun killing you.

i'm aware it's a hybrid damage weapon. the fact it's two shotting a suit with 550 shields still stands. you'd get two-shotted with 550 armor, too.