I hate how Logis, can be better at killing then an Assault suit.

And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...

******* S**t is OP, And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...

It's almost like a semi-regular implementation of such a mechanic would keep the game fresher longer...

And give everyone a chance to change into the next calogi tac OP fit whenever it comes along? Yeah, that'll be great...

And give everyone a chance to change into the next calogi tac OP fit whenever it comes along? Yeah, that'll be great...

I'd rather be riding the spinning wheel then have the wheel spin around me. Lesser of two evils.

Also gives them a chance to simply remove problem items so they can be reworked. What if they just removed all vehicles for a few months and then when they returned with capacitor, ewar, and all sorts of long sought tools. With regular respecs, you can do that without breaking the game.

Logi's should only be able to fit a sidearm. Boom, problem solved, now they actually have to provide battlefield SUPPORT. Give me a Dev job.

I get that but if it ever happens, it will make the game entirely one dimensional and everyone will get bored and bugger off somewhere else. I already know many people who left after getting fed up with everyone using the tac ar before that got fixed - if you squeeze out anyone who doesn't just go FOTM, all that will be left is mercs shooting their identical fitting twins and the whole game becomes stale.

What's amusing is that peoples fear of players jumping on the FoTM stems from their lack of trust for CCP when it comes to balancing their game

Logi's should only be able to fit a sidearm. Boom, problem solved, now they actually have to provide battlefield SUPPORT. Give me a Dev job.

Respecs are fine.....WHEN THEY COST SOMETHING. There has to be some asspain involved in correcting your screw up. Everyone knows whats OP, no matter what line they give you on a forum board. Make respecs a significant investment of AUR=profit.

Logi's should only be able to fit a sidearm. Boom, problem solved, now they actually have to provide battlefield SUPPORT. Give me a Dev job.

Are you playing a different game than me? Because thats basically exactly what is happening, especially the bolded. Respecing lets the pendulum swing independant of CCP balance.

Players should not be able to swing with the pendulum of balance; they should realise that it's a pendulum and that it will eventually swing back.

Take for instance the LASER rifle - some people specced into it for Uprising thinking it would be as OP as it was in Chromosome; they've probably all now respecced into something else because it's awful in Uprising but come 1.2 or 1.3 or whenever everything gets rebalanced, it will probably get a buff again and be usable once more.

This works in EVE because there are actually things to do.

In DUST, even the strongest build gets boring, even the most amusing playstyle grows stale. When your only option to relieve your boredom is to play something that bores you for months on end / cost you actual $$, many players will simply set the game down or uninstall, and go play something else.

It's almost like a semi-regular implementation of such a mechanic would keep the game fresher longer...

I would like to ask your fit OP. I fill 4 slots of equipment with advanced gear and barely have enough pg/cpu to fit a proto weapon and complex plate. Let alone put anything in the hi slots. The problem with logis now is people are able to abuse them by using cheap equipment or little at all and then beasting the tank. The logi can be OP, CCP needs to focus its role.
Logi bonus -10% to all equipment cpu/pg per level
Racial bonus - defense bonus that goes with lore
Lower cpu/pg a bit to force a decent tank with focus on equipment

I hate how Logis, can be better at killing then an Assault suit.

Logis are OP? LOL @ Min logi.

Then you're fixing one problem by creating another - fix the right problem and create more content (things to do) and people won't get bored.

Are you suggesting this change should be made with or without a respec?

I got my respect on three characters today as well. Unfortunately since CCP has no clue what they are doing with the weapons, suits, or anything for that matter, I can't use any SP since there may be no more respecs. There may actually be new equipment, suits, and weapons but if CCP continually forces us to use the AR and medium suits, there is no reason to even bother wasting time with Dust.

And in what way is the gallente logi better than the assault suit again?

People are slow around here huh...
The Gallante Logis not only has a LOT MORE CPU/PG and one more Low powered module slot at the cost of a side arm slot, but it has 2 more equipment slots and a Specialization bonus that actually WORKS for gallante. What would you prefer using a dropsuit that depends on armor, 25%+ shield regen rate , or 5 Hp/s Armor repair?
DUH....

Logi's should only be able to fit a sidearm. Boom, problem solved, now they actually have to provide battlefield SUPPORT. Give me a Dev job.

any form of regen is worthless during a fire fight, it's only useful once the shooting stops... so how is better at assaulting again?

have you ever used a assault caldari suit with complex shield regulators?

-60 HP and 0.4 Speed are easily fixed and excelled by the logi with the extra Module slots.

I said this would happen months ago, no one gave a sh*t.

A caldari logi can 99% of the times fill the ASSAULT ROLE better than any assault suit.

Cons: A little less speed
Lack of side arm
Yellow color

Pros: The only suit with 9 Low/high powered slots
3 equipment slots
up to 25%+ racial bonus Shield extender efficiency
More CPU/PG than any assault suit.


-I run minmatar Novas+Shotgun , and i swear if i get a Respec im goinf Caldari logi.
4 - complex Shield extenders
1 - Complex Damage Mod
W -Creodon Shotgun
2 -Complex Kinetic Catalizers
1 - Complex Stamina (whatever the green flasks)
1- Complex Profile Dampner

Equipment : Whatever i can fit.


This way i will be able to shotgun even BETTER than with a Minmatar, having similar profile dampening and movement but with more than the Double the HP. (From 300 total HP to 711 Total HP).
******* S**t is OP, And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...

My god..... I built my new gallente logi suit and ive died about..... 10 times in the last four hours. That might sound bad to pros but when im going 40 - 4, 30 - 3, 25 - 1 im more then happy with it!

My suit isn't hard to build, and after extensive testing today ive proven, at least to myself, that I can beat every suit 1 v 1 95% of the time. That 5% exception goes to the Caldari proto Logi (if its fitted a certain way), and even then its an epically close battle. Were talking he has 20 hp left and was the best player on their team by far.

But other then that the other team needs ATLEAST 2 people focused on just me to beat me..... I mean, ill give some people credit, they no how to strafe, and have good damage to back it up, but 90% of the time im just as good if not better at strafing, AND NOBODY is putting out more damage then I am....... I can truly say that ive only lost to three people today in a 1v1 fight. Two times was to a proto caldari logi by the named of..... "winged raith" or... atleast a name were there wsa a W and an R involved. He was an excellent player and it was fun fighting him. The other two times was to heavys..... one had a boundless and I misjudged that. The other one had an MH but I got cocky and thought I could take him head on close range. His strafing threw me off a bit.

Other then that ive won every other 1 v 1 engagement. lol im so happy again......

If this is not a troll, CCP needs to read this. I have said before logistics need to be changed. Lose the light weapon slot, or something to stop this.

Yes. It still doesn't out speed the ROF of an AR. Is it useful? Yes, against guys who miss most of their shots. Against someone who lands most of their shots, and head-shots at that? Worthless.

Although it's funny when you're dancing around with someone because you both suck at aiming, yes, my aim sucks

Yes people, lets make it so that combat medics can't defend themselves in a fire fight

I'm sure that'll definitly encourage them to rezz your ass

Logi's should only be able to fit a sidearm. Boom, problem solved, now they actually have to provide battlefield SUPPORT. Give me a Dev job.

To be fair, an actual combat medic should be with his heavies and assaults, focusing more on the ability to tank or avoid damage in order to keep his allies alive.

yeah my respec was a great moment/feeling, buncha crap choices gone, goodness in.

I would like to ask your fit OP. I fill 4 slots of equipment with advanced gear and barely have enough pg/cpu to fit a proto weapon and complex plate. Let alone put anything in the hi slots. The problem with logis now is people are able to abuse them by using cheap equipment or little at all and then beasting the tank. The logi can be OP, CCP needs to focus its role.
Logi bonus -10% to all equipment cpu/pg per level
Racial bonus - defense bonus that goes with lore
Lower cpu/pg a bit to force a decent tank with focus on equipment

To be fair, an actual combat medic should be with his heavies and assaults, focusing more on the ability to tank or avoid damage in order to keep his allies alive.

Right now, as is the continued philosophy for DUST, the best way to support your team is to shoot the other dude. People rarely even equip injectors anymore, and not even because they're still glitched to hell. There's a reason that logi bros don't really exist anymore, it's just logi hoes. They're extremely powerful combat platforms while simultaneously being excellent support platforms.

This is true, if they're alive.

But lets just say there are 2 squads of 4 on 4 going at it, 1 is all assaults the other has a logi in in it. Now the logi, he's playing defensivly trying to not get killed. All the assault guys manage to kill each other off except 1 red. What does the logi do? Does he try and fight the red with just his side arm so he can go for the revive? Or does he run away?

I would run. Or use the flaylock...

My squad was important to my success today. I kept them well supplied and repped using nanohive OPness. We were able to put ourselves in positions that would have normally been impossible simply because we WOULD NOT DIE. Me and one other logi friend two man armied an entire letter BY OURSELVS, we killed (without exaggeration) over 15 people, normally with three people shooting at us at any given time. They just couldn't kill us because we had such amazing reppage...... and the one time my friend did die, I revived him back to full health instantly using my proto stabber. ;) nothing like having a hard fought fight in the middle of an enemy spawn ring.

PS: a good logi is able to fight people while simultaneously performing his logistics role. Fortunately my logistics role is fulfilled as soon as we choose an area to set up shop, and all I need to do from there on is hold down the fort!

My squad was important to my success today. I kept them well supplied and repped using nanohive OPness. We were able to put ourselves in positions that would have normally been impossible simply because we WOULD NOT DIE. Me and one other logi friend two man armied an entire letter BY OURSELVS, we killed (without exaggeration) over 15 people, normally with three people shooting at us at any given time. They just couldn't kill us because we had such amazing reppage...... and the one time my friend did die, I revived him back to full health instantly using my proto stabber. ;) nothing like having a hard fought fight in the middle of an enemy spawn ring.

PS: a good logi is able to fight people while simultaneously performing his logistics role. Fortunately my logistics role is fulfilled as soon as we choose an area to set up shop, and all I need to do from there on is hold down the fort!

But you see, your logic doesn't make any sense. The logistic guy should have given the other squad an edge in survivability. That's the whole point he was there to begin with......

With what, the repper? Most people run Cal suits, so once their shields go out, there's not much I can do for them anyway, not that I could have done anything for their shields either...

Thank god for heavies, they make me feel like I have a purpose.

"Here bro, let me heal your 90 armor", gee I feel so useful now >.>

Heh. Lucky none of 'em had the noust to flux those hives.

The suit description calls us a "force multiplier"... and yet the most useful thing we can do is shoot at stuff, although those nano-hives are nice ... and the remote explosives

My point was he wanted to play an assault style. 40-2 or whatever is slay style. It would be cool if logistics suits were only really good at support. I am not saying no offensive capability, but if slayers are choosing the support suit, something is wrong.

Dude you have no idea..... By speccing into this suit, not only did my survivability go up. ALL OF OUR survivability went up..... dying wasn't common after we all go together.....

My point was he wanted to play an assault style. 40-2 or whatever is slay style. It would be cool if logistics suits were only really good at support. I am not saying no offensive capability, but if slayers are choosing the support suit, something is wrong.

Easy, give the assault suit a damage bonus *boom* assaults are now the better slayer class

My point was he wanted to play an assault style. 40-2 or whatever is slay style. It would be cool if logistics suits were only really good at support. I am not saying no offensive capability, but if slayers are choosing the support suit, something is wrong.

So now heavies and scouts can die when anyone farts?

Logis aren't meant to be only support, they're supposed to be versatile at the cost of base stats and a sidearm slot.

Scouts got freaking shafted, and they don't whine half has hard as killer bees do

My god..... I built my new gallente logi suit and ive died about..... 10 times in the last four hours. That might sound bad to pros but when im going 40 - 4, 30 - 3, 25 - 1 im more then happy with it!

My suit isn't hard to build, and after extensive testing today ive proven, at least to myself, that I can beat every suit 1 v 1 95% of the time. That 5% exception goes to the Caldari proto Logi (if its fitted a certain way), and even then its an epically close battle. Were talking he has 20 hp left and was the best player on their team by far.

But other then that the other team needs ATLEAST 2 people focused on just me to beat me..... I mean, ill give some people credit, they no how to strafe, and have good damage to back it up, but 90% of the time im just as good if not better at strafing, AND NOBODY is putting out more damage then I am....... I can truly say that ive only lost to three people today in a 1v1 fight. Two times was to a proto caldari logi by the named of..... "winged raith" or... atleast a name were there wsa a W and an R involved. He was an excellent player and it was fun fighting him. The other two times was to heavys..... one had a boundless and I misjudged that. The other one had an MH but I got cocky and thought I could take him head on close range. His strafing threw me off a bit.

Other then that ive won every other 1 v 1 engagement. lol im so happy again......

Show me a killer bee whining, cause I have yet to see a "logis are UP thread"

It's the very defensive posture you all take when anyone even so much as mentions the word balance when comes to your specialization.

And we're just saying that the tradeoff isn't high enough if you wish to retain the ability to operate as a slayer. Scouts got freaking shafted, and they don't whine half has hard as killer bees do

[Also, let me reiterate what I've said for the past few months, how in the blue **** are ALL the logis OP? Describe each one individually, starting with the Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, and then finish with the Caldari.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=785193#post785193

I kept challenging people to give reasons for why the other logis are OP, not one person has been able to provide legit reasons for why all logis are in need of a nerf.

Listen to yourself, you're bitching about someone slaying... in a FPS. What, should all logis be limited to using pistols and ill will because of fexible fitting options at the cost of base stats (less HP than a scout) and a secondary weapon just because a good player can get some kills with the suit. Also, let me reiterate what I've said for the past few months, how in the blue **** are ALL the logis OP? Describe each one individually, starting with the Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, and then finish with the Caldari. Here, I'll even do the legwork for you with a spreadsheet comparison between logis and assaults.

Not surprised, people see yellow and instantly assume it's all the suits. You try to reason with them using numbers and they want to burn you at the stake for being a witch. No wonder CCP doesn't listen to us.

Who's bitching? I literally can't take this game seriously right now. All I'm saying is I see a LOT of yellow these days, and they're usually hauling in the kills, soaking up the WP, and playing with all the equipment they can handle. Seriously, I see logis locking down areas better than heavies

:/

Locking down areas better than heavies... with their equipment? You gotta explain this in detail.

(I wish I could drop a supply depot on this thread so Chicago could come and see your explanation too.)

Dat Rep hive bro.

Scrambler rifle or assault, your pick.

Also, the original post literally describes what I just mentioned, and what I see a lot. I don't see logis using their hives to protect their allies, I see them used to protect themselves while they dish out crazy dps with very good survivability. I've heard mixed things about the scanner, but that can greatly increase survivability when locking down an area.

I said this would happen months ago, no one gave a sh*t.

A caldari logi can 99% of the times fill the ASSAULT ROLE better than any assault suit.

Cons: A little less speed
Lack of side arm
Yellow color

Pros: The only suit with 9 Low/high powered slots
3 equipment slots
up to 25%+ racial bonus Shield extender efficiency
More CPU/PG than any assault suit.


-I run minmatar Novas+Shotgun , and i swear if i get a Respec im goinf Caldari logi.
4 - complex Shield extenders
1 - Complex Damage Mod
W -Creodon Shotgun
2 -Complex Kinetic Catalizers
1 - Complex Stamina (whatever the green flasks)
1- Complex Profile Dampner

Equipment : Whatever i can fit.


This way i will be able to shotgun even BETTER than with a Minmatar, having similar profile dampening and movement but with more than the Double the HP. (From 300 total HP to 711 Total HP).
******* S**t is OP, And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...

My god..... I built my new gallente logi suit and ive died about..... 10 times in the last four hours. That might sound bad to pros but when im going 40 - 4, 30 - 3, 25 - 1 im more then happy with it!

My suit isn't hard to build, and after extensive testing today ive proven, at least to myself, that I can beat every suit 1 v 1 95% of the time. That 5% exception goes to the Caldari proto Logi (if its fitted a certain way), and even then its an epically close battle. Were talking he has 20 hp left and was the best player on their team by far.

But other then that the other team needs ATLEAST 2 people focused on just me to beat me..... I mean, ill give some people credit, they no how to strafe, and have good damage to back it up, but 90% of the time im just as good if not better at strafing, AND NOBODY is putting out more damage then I am....... I can truly say that ive only lost to three people today in a 1v1 fight. Two times was to a proto caldari logi by the named of..... "winged raith" or... atleast a name were there wsa a W and an R involved. He was an excellent player and it was fun fighting him. The other two times was to heavys..... one had a boundless and I misjudged that. The other one had an MH but I got cocky and thought I could take him head on close range. His strafing threw me off a bit.

Other then that ive won every other 1 v 1 engagement. lol im so happy again......

No one's asked you for the fitting? Can I haz please?

Everybody is busy trying to limit him to a sidearm

But would you mind sharing your fit OP? I know a lot of GaLogis that could use some fitting advice.

It's the very defensive posture you all take when anyone even so much as mentions the word balance when comes to your specialization.

Explains why I have seen multiple squads of STB out protostomping today. congratulations on your 40/1 matches, oh, and for driving away much of the new playerbase.

I sure hope you can be proud of yourself now!

Locking down areas better than heavies... with their equipment? You gotta explain this in detail.

(I wish I could drop a supply depot on this thread so Chicago could come and see your explanation too.)

TL;DR past page 2 but the ONLY thing a logi should hold in the main weapon slot is a repair tool and have a side arm. Ya know, the POINT of the logi really... Equipment slots are fine. Or make the eHP WAY shorter than a Assault but greater than a Scout.... The first one is my favorite "nerf" to do lol

I REPEC'D INTO FOTM AND NOW I'M SO UBER WITH MY OP BUILD AHAHAH TY RESPEC O BTW WHEN YOU FIX THINGS PLZ GIVE ME ANOTHER KTHX?!?!

So, when your assault dropsuit or fatty suit drops, as a repair tool and needle wielding medic, I'll just run away and hope someone else kills that redberry for me so that I can rep you or pick you up.

Cool.

After this change, new whinage predicted: LOGIs are DAMN USELESS IN A TEAM.

WAY. TO. THINK. THINGS. THROUGH.

My god..... I built my new gallente logi suit and ive died about..... 10 times in the last four hours. That might sound bad to pros but when im going 40 - 4, 30 - 3, 25 - 1 im more then happy with it!

My suit isn't hard to build, and after extensive testing today ive proven, at least to myself, that I can beat every suit 1 v 1 95% of the time. That 5% exception goes to the Caldari proto Logi (if its fitted a certain way), and even then its an epically close battle. Were talking he has 20 hp left and was the best player on their team by far.

But other then that the other team needs ATLEAST 2 people focused on just me to beat me..... I mean, ill give some people credit, they no how to strafe, and have good damage to back it up, but 90% of the time im just as good if not better at strafing, AND NOBODY is putting out more damage then I am....... I can truly say that ive only lost to three people today in a 1v1 fight. Two times was to a proto caldari logi by the named of..... "winged raith" or... atleast a name were there wsa a W and an R involved. He was an excellent player and it was fun fighting him. The other two times was to heavys..... one had a boundless and I misjudged that. The other one had an MH but I got cocky and thought I could take him head on close range. His strafing threw me off a bit.

Other then that ive won every other 1 v 1 engagement. lol im so happy again......

ARE LOGIS OP DEBATE BELOW, YOU DONT NEED TO READ IT IF YOU DONT WANT TO THOUGH.

EDIT: some of you guys are bringing up the Logi is OP point..... so ill just mention my thoughts on it! Logi's as a whole..... might need a tweak. But heres the deal guys. Ive literally put 13.8 million SP into specializing this suit..... Is that not balance in itself? Its only as effective as it is because of the massive amount of research I did before respeccing, and the amount of points I put into specific things. The 3.5 million into the dropsuit, another 5 million into core upgrades, 2.5 million just for the weapon, then the rest spread out between the other essentials I needed. To get up to this level in my suit it would take atleast two months for a new player, and that's ONLY if they specialize soley into that.....

Now that's just the SP investment. The suit itself costs 230k Isk...... I PAY A PREMIUM to have an advantage over people, and that's just how this game works. If I die twice in a match then im in the red! That's simply because the suit takes sooooo much isk to produce.

Furthermore, im an armor tanked merc. Militia grenades can one hit kill me if their point blank, let alone proto grenades...... Theres severe crutches to this suit that just hack into its survivability. You guys are just so upset that you cant kill these suits in "YOUR WAY"..... its like this! You see a brick wall and instead of using the manual and sledgehammer lying to your right, you use the generic nailing hammer because that's the one your used to. Then when it doesn't work you get upset and claim that the wall is OP and that it needs to have less bricks causing it to just be a broken wall......

So yeah, do I think these things are OP? no I don't because theres ridiculous hard-counters to this stuff..... like seriously. (though I will admit the caldari logi might need to loose atleast one module slot...... 5 highs, 4 lows? really?)

Removing the light weapon slot is the only thing that can stop logis being better assaults than assaults.

How is that the only thing that can do that?

How about giving Assaults proper bonuses (damage bonus for example) and/or making Logis not able to tank as much as they can?

Edit: Also swap the shield recharge delays between Assaults and Logis. Logis shouldn't have lower delays than Assaults.

Running around with a repair tool healing heavies is not the only thing Logis should be capable of. They should be capable of supporting their team with gunfire as well, and not only from a sidearm.

Why do ppl always forget the logi armor repair.. That like another slot ontop of the two extra the logi has compared to assault...

I said this would happen months ago, no one gave a sh*t.

A caldari logi can 99% of the times fill the ASSAULT ROLE better than any assault suit.

Cons: A little less speed
Lack of side arm
Yellow color

Pros: The only suit with 9 Low/high powered slots
3 equipment slots
up to 25%+ racial bonus Shield extender efficiency
More CPU/PG than any assault suit.


-I run minmatar Novas+Shotgun , and i swear if i get a Respec im goinf Caldari logi.
4 - complex Shield extenders
1 - Complex Damage Mod
W -Creodon Shotgun
2 -Complex Kinetic Catalizers
1 - Complex Stamina (whatever the green flasks)
1- Complex Profile Dampner

Equipment : Whatever i can fit.


This way i will be able to shotgun even BETTER than with a Minmatar, having similar profile dampening and movement but with more than the Double the HP. (From 300 total HP to 711 Total HP).
******* S**t is OP, And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...

Why do ppl always forget the logi armor repair.. That like another slot ontop of the two extra the logi has compared to assault...

Because logi's are completely balanced when set next to the other three archetypes.

Has nothing to do why it shouldnt be liste with PRO / CON s

Because while logis repair others, they don't have anyone to repair them.

Anyone can train repair skill

You cant say logi are supposed to do some things then argue that they should be able to implement other modules to do other roles as well.

How often do you see assaults and scouts using repair tools? Let's be honest here.

There's nothing wrong with the logi suits. (except for the Caldari bonus and/or slots) It's an issue of intended purpose vs practical use. The devs wanted Assaults to be more attractive because of their faster shield recharge rate while giving logis a bigger buffer. Instead of everyone following the devs intended purpose, everyone sees how much HP the Caldari logi can get and the fitting flexibility of the entire logi class as better because of the better buffer, since all they care about is having the highest possible EHP. This is why I've been saying that it's the other suits that need work to make their intended purpose in line with our current practical use.

AR using logi wearing slayors.

That is the point!!!!

Because they took all the equipment slots from other classes they have said others shouldnt repair.

Take high and low slots from logis and force them to choose and play differently.

Reassign some of the gear to equipment slots eg. Hacker module.

I am sick of the double talk on logis should be able to do whatever - stick them in their proper class because CCP sure did that to the others.

Logis are supposed to tank damage so that they can keep supporting their team - that's why they have so many slots; not so that they can stack damage mods and fight just as hard as assaults. They are support suits, not frontline. And a sidearm is perfectly capable of supporting the team when needed, the rest of the time they should be repping and resupplying and reviving.

Logis should not just be assaults with more equipment slots, which is what they are because missing a secondary weapon slot means nothing.

And yes, the other suits need more applicable bonuses to their roles but that doesn't mean that the current logi suits are fine as they are.

More affectionately known as "Logi Hoes"

Or you we can focus on making the assaults better by showing the devs that their designed purpose for the suit isn't in line with our practical use and make them better through different bonuses.

That is the point!!!!

Because they took all the equipment slots from other classes they have said others shouldnt repair.

Take high and low slots from logis and force them to choose and play differently.

Reassign some of the gear to equipment slots eg. Hacker module.

I am sick of the double talk on logis should be able to do whatever - stick them in their proper class because CCP sure did that to the others.

Your point regarding SP investment and ISK cost arent valid.

What's the difference between a guy spending 13.8 Million in a gallente logi to make it an assault type soldier. And a guy spending the same amount in a a pure assault suit ? I spent the exact same amount as you (13.8 honest) in minmatar assault after the respec, core skills, weapon, nades, etc... Every SP investment being about making a better assault.
And yet, pretty much 95% of the fits i'd like to build require a CPU\PG extension or both. And my best fit costs 210K ISK.

So where's the difference exactly ?

The thing is that a logistic shouldnt, in any case, be able to get more hp nor damage output than an assault (or a heavy) with the same SP investment. It's pretty much written in its genetic code the moment it's called "Logistic".

Everything you mention about nades or any anti armor weapon being the way to kill you is also totally irrelevant in that debate. As the same goes for any gallente assault suit.

The only real downside to logi is base speed and sprint. And it's not that much of a problem for CAL Logis who can easily add kinetic catalyzer to compensate sprint. Cal Logi probably ends up being faster than an assault Cal sprint wise.

So yeah. Problem sticks imo. Logis are OP. In fact OP is just an ugly word for misplaced. All i hope is that when balance is effectively done, CCP wont break to giving another respec. Coz flavor of the month is something everyone KNOWS can change pretty quickly. As a CPM member, i know i will strongly oppose to any form of global respec after balance pass. Otherwise, it's gonna be a giant cry fest everytime there's even the slightest adjustment to anything in the game.

If they make assaults much better, they'll tear through scouts and heavies more than they already do, and they'll start giving logi's a hard time as well.

You want a heavy scout? go for it, you want a speed tanked heavy? DO IT. If I want a logi that can hold its own in a fight..... then why can't I do it?

This game doesn't have proper classes, that's why we have heavies that can snipe and assaults that can use nova knives. Assaults and scouts rarely use reppers because they choose not to.

If they make assaults much better, they'll tear through scouts and heavies more than they already do, and they'll start giving logi's a hard time as well.

Yes we should adjust all the other suits because logi is unbalanced. Seems legit.

You want logis to be restricted to sidearms? All the other suits need to give up their equipment slots since you want a logi to be your personal butler. Plain and simple.

Or you we can focus on making the assaults better by showing the devs that their designed purpose for the suit isn't in line with our practical use and make them better through different bonuses. Unless you like having shield regen bonuses on gallente suits and that 2% hybrid weapon reload speed per level on the Caldari

You people that complain that only having a sidearm would remove any chance to kill off anyone left if the guy your running with falls make me laugh. Sidearms are far from useless. I only use sidearms and do just as well if not better than many of the assaults I play with.

If you're running with a proper assault slayer and he dies, chances are the enemy is pretty near death too - if he's not running for cover, you could easily finish him off with a pistol or SMG or flaylock and then revive your teammate. Removing the light weapon slot is the only thing that can stop logis being better assaults than assaults. Heck, I know many assaults who don't even bother carrying a sidearm because it wastes CPU/PG, so not having a secondary weapon is hardly a significant drawback for logis who want to be slayers.

Now you are just playing semantics - So as a scout I should be on here lobbying for more slots to "dampen" and "scan" and then if I got them I should turn around and load up with shield extenders and more catalysers or armour mods and become a real commando

And if this game had no roles/classes then why dont we just have light medium and heavy and be done with all the other crap - build to your hearts content.

Disingenuous!!

I've already agreed with you that the other suits need more suitable bonuses.

However, your comment about assaults should fit their designed purpose is funny because you seem completely against logis fitting their designed purpose.

I'll say it again - sidearms are still decent weapons and more than capable of mopping up whatever's left of the enemy if they manage to kill the guys you're supposed to be supporting. Killing should not be anywhere near the biggest source of WP for logis but that is the way it is all the while they can use ARs and other light weapons.

And bringing down the nerf Mjolnir every time has worked out for the past year, right?

How are we ever supposed to compete with assaults

And bringing down the nerf Mjolnir every time has worked out for the past year, right?

WAKE UP CALL, only having a sidearm as a logi would be game breaking for that class. Are proto sidearms good? Sure but gimping a classes firepower to something that's sooooo situational would be a terrible hit to Logis...... How are we ever supposed to compete with assaults unless there unlucky enough to be in the perfect situations we would need to beat them? The lack of a pistol is a gimp enough..... I mean, do you know how many "good" players ive gone against that just do as much damage they can with their duvolle, only to switch to the Flaylock and shoot the ground once or twice??? Toooooo many. The only thing your doing by limiting logi's to sidearms is increasing either A.) SMG spam, or B.) flaylock spam. Both of which would be at risk of nerf because of how the community is..... (trust me, that proto smg can be brutal, nobody notices though because it just isn't used as often).

In summary...... NERFING A LOGI'S COMBATIVE ABILITY IS NOT BALANCING, ITS BREAKING.

seriously guys..... im telling you the assaults just need a buff, its not the logis. But ive already posted a huge response to my thoughts on it.

Changing to only sidearm would not break a logis offensive capabilities, as a matter of fact, they could still slay. What it would do is discourage assault players from choosing it as their suit.

The Logistics bonus I suggested is a reduction in fitting costs for equipment modules. I have heard it is difficult for Logis to fit all proto equipment, while maintaining high defensive capabilities. So that would solve the problem and encourage Logis to be more of a supportive role.

I'm more curious with your reasoning for choosing to play Logistics, since you clearly wish to be an Assault....since when is the support unit supposed to compete with the front line fighter?

It's like being the healer in an MMO and complaining that you don't have as much DPS as the ranger....

Give logis two sidearm slots, and allow anyone to dual wield side arms if two are equipped by cycling to the option on the weapon wheel. Obviously have to increase reload speed and make the spread more wonky, but there's your firepower if you want it, and versatility if you're going support. Amarr logi gets a light weapon slot only (only because they gave them the sidearm)

For craps sake there's an official concept art of the Logi with two SMGs.....

And finally.... its not like being a healer in an MMO.... Its like being a combat medic. My logi duties is just as important as my kill the guy shooting at me duties. Making it so logi's can get pubstomped in a 1 v 1 is stupid, we should have at-least the ability, to compete with an assault player. Ill admit that certain suits now need a balance, but ill never admit that Logi's as a whole are OP, because that simply isn't the case. I mean, I don't remember the last minmatar logi, or amarr logi Ive seen..... and theres a reason for that right? lol

"I'll never admit that logi's are OP".....well, here's your dunce hat for the day. Cripes.

And you come full circle with wanting to go toe to toe with the Assault, which you yourself said would be no issue with a sidearm, especially two (the only thing that worries me is the flaylocks, but they still need work anyways). The way I see it, logi's are SUPPOSED to have tank, because that allows them to get in and revive their buddies, or heal people up, without actually dieing. With only sidearms, a logi would be encouraged to stick close with his allies, unless he was built to be quick and stealthy, more like a shotgun logi of today.

The reason you don't see people complain too much about the other logi suits is partly because the Amarr one is kind of meh for a logi, and the Caldari logi just overly highlights the issues with the logi spec as a whole :/

Can someone explain to me how the Minmatar, Gallente, and Amarr logi are OP? I have a stat comparison a few pages back that everyone ignored and I still see a broad brush being painted on the entire class because of this.

Also, would we be having this same argument if shields actually had a drawback? You know, something like a larger signature radius, or larger hitbox when at full health?

Most logis don't play with sidearms - the fact you got killed by one on that occasion is not a general pattern. The mere fact that you were killed by a logi with an SMG should be a sign to every other logi out there crying not to take away the light weapon slot because they won't be able to kill anything that they are wrong.

The general pattern is that most logis use ARs or SCRs because they have a buck-load of ammo and don't run out of rounds too quickly, thus negating the need for a sidearm.

Reducing logis eHP would be truly breaking for them. They need to be able to tank so they can stand alongside their squad repping them while they kill the guys shooting at you.

All the time logis have access to light weapons, they are encouraged to try to kill at the detriment of support. Changing the light weapon slot for a sidearm slot would force them to focus on support and only focus on killing when the situation warrants it.

And field medics in real war situations are not kitted out with the same offensive equipment as regular infantry. Carrying medical supplies and equipment means less room for big bulky weapons. Tell me where exactly your merc is managing to fit a nanohive, uplink, armor repper and needles alongside his grenades and assault rifle?

Cosgar..... that's the exact argument im trying to fight right now. People are so blinded by Caldari logi spam that they claim all logi's are OP, which is the stupidest thing ive ever seen.

Where does the HMG go when a heavy pulls out his sidearm. Or better yet, where did G1 Optimus Prime's trailer go when he transforemed? See? I can do it too.

Most logis don't play with sidearms - the fact you got killed by one on that occasion is not a general pattern. The mere fact that you were killed by a logi with an SMG should be a sign to every other logi out there crying not to take away the light weapon slot because they won't be able to kill anything that they are wrong.

The general pattern is that most logis use ARs or SCRs because they have a buck-load of ammo and don't run out of rounds too quickly, thus negating the need for a sidearm.

Reducing logis eHP would be truly breaking for them. They need to be able to tank so they can stand alongside their squad repping them while they kill the guys shooting at you.

All the time logis have access to light weapons, they are encouraged to try to kill at the detriment of support. Changing the light weapon slot for a sidearm slot would force them to focus on support and only focus on killing when the situation warrants it.

And field medics in real war situations are not kitted out with the same offensive equipment as regular infantry. Carrying medical supplies and equipment means less room for big bulky weapons. Tell me where exactly your merc is managing to fit a nanohive, uplink, armor repper and needles alongside his grenades and assault rifle?

Now you're just being facetious.

The animations and models for changing weapons are bad but you can imagine that a heavy slings a HMG behind him when he takes out his SMG.

So let's take baby steps.

Fix the loldari suit, then we can see how everything plays out from there.

So let's take baby steps.

Fix the loldari suit, then we can see how everything plays out from there.

If that's the case, imagine logis pulling all their equipment out of their backpacks.

Finally! He sees the light!

Cosgar..... that's the exact argument im trying to fight right now. People are so blinded by Caldari logi spam that they claim all logi's are OP, which is the stupidest thing ive ever seen.

Don't get too excited, optimism isn't taken kindly to 'round these parts.

I've always felt that logistics had a bit too much wonder to their unit, if you catch my drift Anyways, we're supposed to be getting a dev blog today about 1.2, so let's see if anything is mentioned in there.

for the record I dislike Fiend's suggestion of dual wielding

Don't be hatin'

CCP likes the idea, at least to some extent

They also are willing to follow "The Rule of Cool" as indicated by them working on Speeders

Dude.... your missing the point. The whole reason CCP would remove the Light weapon slot in favor of the SMG would be to gimp the logistics combat ability. But ive stated OVER AND OVER again this thread that Switching us out with SMG's WOULD NOT fix the problem. The problem here is NOT DPS, its TANK. Tank is the problem BECAUSE its so much more then the assault suits. So tell me, who wins in this scenario.....

LCK0 with dual proto SMG's (meaning he doesn't have to reload one, and can switch to the other) VS ACK0 with an assault rifle..... The LCK0 because it has 1.) 200 more HP then the ACK0 AND the DPS on the proto SMG is INSANE. You people don't understand this because you've never specced into it. I know SCOUT SUIT specialists that run SMG's and get 1st place on pub matches all the time, so how is removing a logistics light weapon in favor of a sidearm going to make it any less capable of stomping in pub matches? IT WONT.... SO WHATS THE POINT OF DOING IT? THERE IS NONE.

http://dust514.com/media/concept-art/logistic-dropsuit-1/

If logis get confied to sidearms, I better not see any Ishukone SMG nerf topics.

I said they "like" the idea, not, Uprising 1.2 HAS DUAL WIELDZ OLMGAS

I said they "like" the idea, not, Uprising 1.2 HAS DUAL WIELDZ OLMGAS

You assume you know me - I'm pretty sure I stated earlier that I ONLY use SMGs and pistols. I'm fully specced on both and know exactly how good they are. The drawback and thing that would stop logis with sidearms from out-assaulting assaults would be the extreme lack of range.

Also, I already said, I dislike the dual wielding/2 sidearm slots suggestion.

I reiterate that Tank is what Logis need. Without it, they'd die too quickly to support anyone.

In my honest opinion..... the only reason that gun hasn't been nerfed is because of how underused it is. To this date, ive been killed four times by that gun. And its not because the gun sucks, its because ive only ever fought five or ten people using it....... LOL at a sidearm that can out beaf my proto AR.

(Puts a Core Flaylock in each hand)

Where's your god now?

I've already stated that the dual flaylock is really my only concern, and that's an issue with the flaylock, NOT dual wield. Flaylock should have noticeable splash with strong direct damage, not strong of both. We'll see how CCP takes it, there's no way it's going to stay as is for long. If it had powerful direct damage, then adding a little weapon sway and spread would really negate anything other than close ranged alpha, which you'd have to be careful of splash which translates into player skill.

I was actually just thinking about the Mini and Amarr logis. Isn't it true that Amarr pretty much tries to turn everything into a combat role? In that case, I wouldn't be against them having a light weapon slot. The minmatar way is to speed tank, right? So they don't need a light weapon to be able to get in, do their thing and get out quickly. In fact, their bonus is to hacking, so I guess they're intended to be avoiding fighting altogether and hacking, placing uplinks, getting ammo in useful places where there aren't supply depots and that sort of thing.

The gallente and caldari logis are supposed to be the primary support suits in this game, so make them support and take away the light weapon slot. (for the record I dislike Fiend's suggestion of dual wielding).

As for not having 'classes' in this game - true to an extent but you cite tank scouts and speedy heavies as examples; neither of which are even minutely viable roles. The only suit that has the versatility to act like another is the logi and that needs to be fixed.

You want logis to be confined to sidearms and you want to nerf the Flaylock? How about you just turn the logi animation to a backwards crawl while presenting their supple cheeks...

I was lucky enough to get sidearm sharpshooter prof 5 during the last week of Chrome and used my Duvolle as a secondary because of that thing

You want logis to be confined to sidearms and you want to nerf the Flaylock? How about you just turn the logi animation to a backwards crawl while presenting their supple cheeks...

Lol Marston arguing with a noob who wants to kill to logi class into oblivion.
Laurent posted great ideas.
Bendtner posted relevant rebuttal to this idea.
Overall, they will never do this, and you can let this guy try to get support for it, but the fact is Marston he doesn't want to be open in his opinions, so why waste your time. It's devolved in a pissing contest of children. Just let it die.

On a more important note bro, why the **** are you ignoring my fanboi attempts to extract the fitting you used to achieve your rampant success? Please share

Zatara

P.S. I'm so intrigued by this I'm even posting on my birthday, while in Vegas, please stop ignoring me and clue me in on how I could improve my fitting. Thanks!

Have you seen the core flaylock? I'm saying give everyone dual wield so that way logi's can be given bonuses to it, or at least be encouraged to specialize in that style of combat. The ONLY thing even remotely balancing the flaylock right now is its clip, its RoF isn't that bad at all. Give someone two of those, and it becomes a serious balance issue.

You can't just wave a wand and everything magically works. Suggestions are made to spark creative thinking and discussion when you learn to weed out the trolls. Sometimes something that looks good on paper doesn't translate well, or vice versa. Or something that was once broken becomes balanced by introducing a new element, or vice versa.

SMGs and Pistols would both likely work as dual wielding with a bit of weapon sway and dispersion. Flaylocks as is, would not. You would rain death on all the things with ease. They already do. Flaylocks will be getting adjusted, let's just hope they don't get destroyed.

Oh and Marston, a grenadier logi would be terrifying. I am ******* mean with grenades, I would play a role that only gave me a single sidearm (or none, even) if I had a dedicated grenadier role.

After my respec I wanted to go Caldari Suit, for a moment I thought "CCP will see that Logi Suits are overpowered so much and they will make a good fix (nerf/balance) to them" so I went Minmatar Assault.

After spent all my SP, I realized that CCP works in the game and makse fixes and updates after 6 months. And I realized that in 6 months I will be playing Killzone 4 because I won't be able to play with the Gallente Heavy, so, yes, I screw up.

I musted go Caldari Logi in the first time. I was such a stupid person when I thought that CCP could fix his build in a couple of weeks.

I want to have a new respec...

Or maybe not...

I can still use...


LAVs!!!!!!!

Cosgar, in light of his further replies I'm going to need your help. Please help me direct his attention to my post! Quote my post, if that doesn't work , just copy and paste it, and if that doesn't work, let's all just post stuff about how all logi's need the nerf hammer into oblivion but have my posts embedded right smack dab in the middle so he accidentally finds himself reading it! Hurry! \


Edit: He saw it!!!!!1! But you want me to wade through all the crap of this noob arguing with you to find hints? Cmon, it's my birthday bro, show me some love?

Just to set straight anyone who thinks that I'm 'trying to nerf logis to death'; I'm not. I just want to make the OP logis less OP. Marston has already agreed that confining these logis to only sidearms would not kill logis off. That's good consensus. As has been said, let's not wield the nerf hammer, so go step by step. If after changing the LCKs and LGKs, it seems they are still too strong because of the tank, we can work on reducing that a little.

Just to set straight anyone who thinks that I'm 'trying to nerf logis to death'; I'm not. I just want to make the OP logis less OP. Marston has already agreed that confining these logis to only sidearms would not kill logis off. That's good consensus. As has been said, let's not wield the nerf hammer, so go step by step. If after changing the LCKs and LGKs, it seems they are still too strong because of the tank, we can work on reducing that a little.

I love Dust.

I hate how Logis, can be better at killing then an Assault suit.

I aint gonna tell you my exact fit man. I don't want to see everyone using it ;) just the people I want to see using it!

Just to set straight anyone who thinks that I'm 'trying to nerf logis to death'; I'm not. I just want to make the OP logis less OP. Marston has already agreed that confining these logis to only sidearms would not kill logis off. That's good consensus. As has been said, let's not wield the nerf hammer, so go step by step. If after changing the LCKs and LGKs, it seems they are still too strong because of the tank, we can work on reducing that a little.

I said this would happen months ago, no one gave a sh*t.

A caldari logi can 99% of the times fill the ASSAULT ROLE better than any assault suit.

Cons: A little less speed
Lack of side arm
Yellow color

Pros: The only suit with 9 Low/high powered slots
3 equipment slots
up to 25%+ racial bonus Shield extender efficiency
More CPU/PG than any assault suit.


-I run minmatar Novas+Shotgun , and i swear if i get a Respec im goinf Caldari logi.
4 - complex Shield extenders
1 - Complex Damage Mod
W -Creodon Shotgun
2 -Complex Kinetic Catalizers
1 - Complex Stamina (whatever the green flasks)
1- Complex Profile Dampner

Equipment : Whatever i can fit.


This way i will be able to shotgun even BETTER than with a Minmatar, having similar profile dampening and movement but with more than the Double the HP. (From 300 total HP to 711 Total HP).
******* S**t is OP, And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...

DPS IS NOT THE ISSUE. LOGI TANK IS.

Welp...can you share your move speed? And if you're using a precision enhancer?

Can you just mail me? You;d be the coolest guy evurrr.

I don't want to trust your opinion on balancing because you're assuming the entire logi class is OP.

The problem here is that taking away from their tank directly hurts their primary purpose; group support. Whereas limiting them to sidearms, which are more demanding on player skill to make as effective as many light weapons, will only hurt their secondary purpose; combat specialist. It also encourages logistics players to stick closer to allies.

I'm not too worried about it right now until after I see some patch notes. We're going to be in for a real treat depending on these new shield modules, and how they play out on all the killer bees out there.

I'm not saying the entire class is OP - in fact in the statement you've quoted from me right there I've specifically stated Gals and Cals.

Like I said, I want to work towards a consensus on this. Marston did say that making logis (let's say Gs and Cs) only use sidearms would not stop them being OP, so that's the same as saying there'd be no problem making that change.

Would anyone seriously disagree with me that logis need to be able to tank damage?

I'm not saying the entire class is OP - in fact in the statement you've quoted from me right there I've specifically stated Gals and Cals.

Like I said, I want to work towards a consensus on this. Marston did say that making logis (let's say Gs and Cs) only use sidearms would not stop them being OP, so that's the same as saying there'd be no problem making that change.

Would anyone seriously disagree with me that logis need to be able to tank damage?

Do you agree that tanking and fitting flexibility are the only real advantages Logis have over their assaults of the same race?

Yes. The reason for it is because that IS the reason their OP. Their tank, is exclusively what gives them an advantage over their assault counterparts. We can fix this by chopping off the shield efficacy bonus the LCK0 has, and removing 1 high slot. The same is true for Gallente, but to a lesser extent, because gallente doesn't get an armor plate efficacy bonus, AND we get penalized in speed..... which is significant.

Agreed.

So what advantages does an assault have over it's logi equivalent?

I'll yield to the fact that I've only ever used militia and standard SMGs. I've just always felt that a logi should have more HP because whenever I come up on a group, I try to identify their logi and take him out before I actually engage, if at all possible. Sometimes I just won't engage if I see that logi and can't get the jump on him before his friends see me, but then again, I play a LOT of solo

I'll yield to the fact that I've only ever used militia and standard SMGs. I've just always felt that a logi should have more HP because whenever I come up on a group, I try to identify their logi and take him out before I actually engage, if at all possible. Sometimes I just won't engage if I see that logi and can't get the jump on him before his friends see me, but then again, I play a LOT of solo

Proto SMG = a whole new world of opportunities.

IDK if you remember Stlcarlos, but he used to run swarm launchers, with proto SMG's as his main battle fit. The SMG was that good back then, and it hasn't been touched once since then either..... (aside from the sharpshooter skill but that was across the board).

Btw, I run min logi. Just thought I would let you know the class I want "made useless for offense" is my own. I actually just want it made pure.

The speed penalty isn't huge but yes, it is there.

Thing is, if you take away their tank, they really don't have much going for them at all.