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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3986
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Logi's upset me, a lot, in a philosophical way. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3986
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:And since no one is going to fix it, may as well use it myself...
::Casually rests the Duvolle rifle on his shoulder:: |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3987
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
What's amusing is that peoples fear of players jumping on the FoTM stems from their lack of trust for CCP when it comes to balancing their game
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3989
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Son Down wrote:Logi's should only be able to fit a sidearm. Boom, problem solved, now they actually have to provide battlefield SUPPORT. Give me a Dev job. Flaylock is a front line weapon |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3990
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Son Down wrote:Respecs are fine.....WHEN THEY COST SOMETHING. There has to be some asspain involved in correcting your screw up. Everyone knows whats OP, no matter what line they give you on a forum board. Make respecs a significant investment of AUR=profit. AUR is the wrong way to go for certain, that is opening a bad can of worms right there.
Better to have SP respecs cost a chunk of SP, to deter you from requesting one, especially multiple times. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3990
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Posted - 2013.06.24 23:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Players should not be able to swing with the pendulum of balance; they should realise that it's a pendulum and that it will eventually swing back.
Take for instance the LASER rifle - some people specced into it for Uprising thinking it would be as OP as it was in Chromosome; they've probably all now respecced into something else because it's awful in Uprising but come 1.2 or 1.3 or whenever everything gets rebalanced, it will probably get a buff again and be usable once more. This works in EVE because there are actually things to do.
In DUST, even the strongest build gets boring, even the most amusing playstyle grows stale. When your only option to relieve your boredom is to play something that bores you for months on end / cost you actual $$, many players will simply set the game down or uninstall, and go play something else. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3990
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Posted - 2013.06.24 23:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Then you're fixing one problem by creating another - fix the right problem and create more content (things to do) and people won't get bored. The only difference is that even just a small, partial SP refund system would go a tremendously long way in helping out newer players, while giving vets something to play with (or wear as a badge of pride, having never had to use one) could be implemented at least somewhat quickly.
Judging by the current rate of development, it will be 1 to 2 years at minimum before we really start entering something that looks like a polished, well oiled machine of an MMO. We can't expect new content that gives us things to do and actual meaning to our choices until the actual game mechanics are working good and running smoothly. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3990
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Posted - 2013.06.25 00:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Yes people, lets make it so that combat medics can't defend themselves in a fire fight I'm sure that'll definitly encourage them to rezz your ass To be fair, an actual combat medic should be with his heavies and assaults, focusing more on the ability to tank or avoid damage in order to keep his allies alive.
Right now, as is the continued philosophy for DUST, the best way to support your team is to shoot the other dude. People rarely even equip injectors anymore, and not even because they're still glitched to hell. There's a reason that logi bros don't really exist anymore, it's just logi hoes. They're extremely powerful combat platforms while simultaneously being excellent support platforms.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3991
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Posted - 2013.06.25 00:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:My squad was important to my success today. I kept them well supplied and repped using nanohive OPness. We were able to put ourselves in positions that would have normally been impossible simply because we WOULD NOT DIE. Me and one other logi friend two man armied an entire letter BY OURSELVS, we killed (without exaggeration) over 15 people, normally with three people shooting at us at any given time. They just couldn't kill us because we had such amazing reppage...... and the one time my friend did die, I revived him back to full health instantly using my proto stabber. ;) nothing like having a hard fought fight in the middle of an enemy spawn ring.
PS: a good logi is able to fight people while simultaneously performing his logistics role. Fortunately my logistics role is fulfilled as soon as we choose an area to set up shop, and all I need to do from there on is hold down the fort! See, that would have been a cool story to me if it was you and your HMG buddy, and you were using your hives and repper to keep him golden while he mowed **** down.
Hearing that the two support players just hunkered down and turned into an anti personnel turret.....
:/ |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3993
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Jin Robot wrote:My point was he wanted to play an assault style. 40-2 or whatever is slay style. It would be cool if logistics suits were only really good at support. I am not saying no offensive capability, but if slayers are choosing the support suit, something is wrong. Easy, give the assault suit a damage bonus *boom* assaults are now the better slayer class So now heavies and scouts can die when anyone farts? |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3993
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Jin Robot wrote:My point was he wanted to play an assault style. 40-2 or whatever is slay style. It would be cool if logistics suits were only really good at support. I am not saying no offensive capability, but if slayers are choosing the support suit, something is wrong. Logis aren't meant to be only support, they're supposed to be versatile at the cost of base stats and a sidearm slot. And we're just saying that the tradeoff isn't high enough if you wish to retain the ability to operate as a slayer. Scouts got freaking shafted, and they don't whine half has hard as killer bees do
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3993
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts got freaking shafted, and they don't whine half has hard as killer bees do
Show me a killer bee whining, cause I have yet to see a "logis are UP thread" It's the very defensive posture you all take when anyone even so much as mentions the word balance when comes to your specialization. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3993
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Listen to yourself, you're bitching about someone slaying... in a FPS. What, should all logis be limited to using pistols and ill will because of fexible fitting options at the cost of base stats (less HP than a scout) and a secondary weapon just because a good player can get some kills with the suit. Also, let me reiterate what I've said for the past few months, how in the blue **** are ALL the logis OP? Describe each one individually, starting with the Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, and then finish with the Caldari. Here, I'll even do the legwork for you with a spreadsheet comparison between logis and assaults. Who's bitching? I literally can't take this game seriously right now. All I'm saying is I see a LOT of yellow these days, and they're usually hauling in the kills, soaking up the WP, and playing with all the equipment they can handle. Seriously, I see logis locking down areas better than heavies
:/
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3993
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Locking down areas better than heavies... with their equipment? You gotta explain this in detail.
(I wish I could drop a supply depot on this thread so Chicago could come and see your explanation too.)
Dat Rep hive bro.
Scrambler rifle or assault, your pick.
Also, the original post literally describes what I just mentioned, and what I see a lot. I don't see logis using their hives to protect their allies, I see them used to protect themselves while they dish out crazy dps with very good survivability. I've heard mixed things about the scanner, but that can greatly increase survivability when locking down an area. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4005
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gaechti wrote:Why do ppl always forget the logi armor repair.. That like another slot ontop of the two extra the logi has compared to assault... Because logi's are completely balanced when set next to the other three archetypes. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4006
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jin Robo wrote: AR using logi wearing slayors. More affectionately known as "Logi Hoes" |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4007
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Or you we can focus on making the assaults better by showing the devs that their designed purpose for the suit isn't in line with our practical use and make them better through different bonuses. If they make assaults much better, they'll tear through scouts and heavies more than they already do, and they'll start giving logi's a hard time as well. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4007
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marston VC wrote: You want a heavy scout? go for it, you want a speed tanked heavy? DO IT. If I want a logi that can hold its own in a fight..... then why can't I do it? What is this....but when did I...I don't even...but did I......huh? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4010
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:How are we ever supposed to compete with assaults I'm more curious with your reasoning for choosing to play Logistics, since you clearly wish to be an Assault....since when is the support unit supposed to compete with the front line fighter?
It's like being the healer in an MMO and complaining that you don't have as much DPS as the ranger....
Give logis two sidearm slots, and allow anyone to dual wield side arms if two are equipped by cycling to the option on the weapon wheel. Obviously have to increase reload speed and make the spread more wonky, but there's your firepower if you want it, and versatility if you're going support.
For craps sake there's an official concept art of the Logi with two SMGs..... |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4014
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:Changing to only sidearm would not break a logis offensive capabilities, as a matter of fact, they could still slay. What it would do is discourage assault players from choosing it as their suit. I'm telling you, two side arm slots for logi's, and let anyone dual wield sidearms (to keep with balance though it should only be when you have two of the same kinds of weapons equipped)
It fits the rule of cool while simultaneously giving the assault role back to the Assault specialization.
Not to mention that you could still build a pretty mean and aggressive killer bee with this, even with reduced accuracy / increased weapon sway while dual wielding. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4016
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:The Logistics bonus I suggested is a reduction in fitting costs for equipment modules. I have heard it is difficult for Logis to fit all proto equipment, while maintaining high defensive capabilities. So that would solve the problem and encourage Logis to be more of a supportive role. I was literally just thinking this exact same thing >_< |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4023
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:And finally.... its not like being a healer in an MMO.... Its like being a combat medic. My logi duties is just as important as my kill the guy shooting at me duties. Making it so logi's can get pubstomped in a 1 v 1 is stupid, we should have at-least the ability, to compete with an assault player. Ill admit that certain suits now need a balance, but ill never admit that Logi's as a whole are OP, because that simply isn't the case. I mean, I don't remember the last minmatar logi, or amarr logi Ive seen..... and theres a reason for that right? lol
And you come full circle with wanting to go toe to toe with the Assault, which you yourself said would be no issue with a sidearm, especially two (the only thing that worries me is the flaylocks, but they still need work anyways). The way I see it, logi's are SUPPOSED to have tank, because that allows them to get in and revive their buddies, or heal people up, without actually dieing. With only sidearms, a logi would be encouraged to stick close with his allies, unless he was built to be quick and stealthy, more like a shotgun logi of today.
The reason you don't see people complain too much about the other logi suits is partly because the Amarr one is kind of meh for a logi, and the Caldari logi just overly highlights the issues with the logi spec as a whole :/
Or, instead of two sidearm slots, give them a light slot and a sidearm slot but make light weapons take a large % extra CPU / PG requirement to fit. This would encourage dual wield or simply two sidearms while still allowing the logi to play with light weapons if he wants to work his build around it. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4025
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
So let's take baby steps.
Fix the loldari suit, then we can see how everything plays out from there. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4025
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So let's take baby steps.
Fix the loldari suit, then we can see how everything plays out from there. Finally! He sees the light! Don't get too excited, optimism isn't taken kindly to 'round these parts.
I've always felt that logistics had a bit too much wonder to their unit, if you catch my drift Anyways, we're supposed to be getting a dev blog today about 1.2, so let's see if anything is mentioned in there. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4025
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:for the record I dislike Fiend's suggestion of dual wielding
Don't be hatin'
CCP likes the idea, at least to some extent
They also are willing to follow "The Rule of Cool" as indicated by them working on Speeders
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4025
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Django Quik wrote:for the record I dislike Fiend's suggestion of dual wielding Don't be hatin' CCP likes the idea, at least to some extentThey also are willing to follow "The Rule of Cool" as indicated by them working on Speeders http://dust514.com/media/concept-art/logistic-dropsuit-1/ I said they "like" the idea, not, Uprising 1.2 HAS DUAL WIELDZ OLMGAS |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4026
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:(Puts a Core Flaylock in each hand)
Where's your god now? I've already stated that the dual flaylock is really my only concern, and that's an issue with the flaylock, NOT dual wield. Flaylock should have noticeable splash with strong direct damage, not strong of both. We'll see how CCP takes it, there's no way it's going to stay as is for long. If it had powerful direct damage, then adding a little weapon sway and spread would really negate anything other than close ranged alpha, which you'd have to be careful of splash which translates into player skill.
Ultimately it's that tricky balance of two sidearms, giving them enough drawbacks for their clear advantages without ruining the advantages in the process. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4026
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You want logis to be confined to sidearms and you want to nerf the Flaylock? How about you just turn the logi animation to a backwards crawl while presenting their supple cheeks... Have you seen the core flaylock? I'm saying give everyone dual wield so that way logi's can be given bonuses to it, or at least be encouraged to specialize in that style of combat. The ONLY thing even remotely balancing the flaylock right now is its clip, its RoF isn't that bad at all. Give someone two of those, and it becomes a serious balance issue.
You can't just wave a wand and everything magically works. Suggestions are made to spark creative thinking and discussion when you learn to weed out the trolls. Sometimes something that looks good on paper doesn't translate well, or vice versa. Or something that was once broken becomes balanced by introducing a new element, or vice versa.
SMGs and Pistols would both likely work as dual wielding with a bit of weapon sway and dispersion. Flaylocks as is, would not. You would rain death on all the things with ease. They already do. Flaylocks will be getting adjusted, let's just hope they don't get destroyed.
Oh and Marston, a grenadier logi would be terrifying. I am ******* mean with grenades, I would play a role that only gave me a single sidearm (or none, even) if I had a dedicated grenadier role. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4028
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Posted - 2013.06.25 18:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:DPS IS NOT THE ISSUE. LOGI TANK IS. The problem here is that taking away from their tank directly hurts their primary purpose; group support. Whereas limiting them to sidearms, which are more demanding on player skill to make as effective as many light weapons, will only hurt their secondary purpose; combat specialist. It also encourages logistics players to stick closer to allies.
I'm not too worried about it right now until after I see some patch notes. We're going to be in for a real treat depending on these new shield modules, and how they play out on all the killer bees out there. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4028
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Posted - 2013.06.25 18:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'll yield to the fact that I've only ever used militia and standard SMGs. I've just always felt that a logi should have more HP because whenever I come up on a group, I try to identify their logi and take him out before I actually engage, if at all possible. Sometimes I just won't engage if I see that logi and can't get the jump on him before his friends see me, but then again, I play a LOT of solo |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4028
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Posted - 2013.06.25 18:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:and I just don't think I should be forced out of my playstyle, because you think your playstyle is the only one a logistics suit should cover...... go figure huh? I just feel like it's far too easy to make a combat logi that also has the versatility of a support character. The assault suits seem to be just about fine right now, with scouts and heavies being on the lower end of the totem pole in general. Currently the loldari logi is a problem, so fixing that and seeing how the rest of the logi's play out is the first step.
It just really feels like you want to have maximum killing efficiency, which still makes me wonder why you choose logistics over assault |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4029
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Posted - 2013.06.25 19:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Proto nanocircuitry lets me use proto needles, and hives. So I run the proto triage nanohive, proto gauged nanohive, proto needle, and standard drop uplink. This makes me a utility player for me squad because im a mobile CRU, I can Rep them for close to 100 hp/ second, I can give them crazy amounts of ammo, AND I can pick them up if they die to full health (which is a heavies dream by the way). My equipment upped my squads entire survivability by a considerable amount yesterday, soley because I was keeping us alive. The whole "slaying" thing comes after I set up shop for my squad.
So by "set up shop" you mean switch out from your support build to your slayer build at a supply depot. After splitting your SP up to accommodate for those two separate playstyles, right? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4033
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Posted - 2013.06.25 20:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:What? I fit all of that on to my suit bro, the only time I "swith suits" is when im restocking my nanohives and dropuplinks..... I have two fittings in game right now, lol I can even give you the names to them And you see no issues with this? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4041
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Posted - 2013.06.25 22:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:The shield recharger wont do crap if im already dead, Shield ext > Shield Recharger. Nevermind that the fitting cost for rechargers is absurd....30/60/90?
L
O
L |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4077
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Posted - 2013.06.26 03:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:The shield recharger wont do crap if im already dead, Shield ext > Shield Recharger. Nevermind that the fitting cost for rechargers is absurd....30/60/90? L O L You lost me there. English is not my native language so pls elaborate.
Shield rechargers take 30/60/90 CPU to fit, respectively.
Lol was stretched out and means Laugh Out Loud. |
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