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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
851
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers- |
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2669
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
1. YES 2. Dont see why not 3. meh not important, can leave it at 0 |
REMNANCY 1
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
1.Yes though different ways to tax would be good like daily versus income
2.yes
3.Entirely not needed |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
171
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers- 1. Yes.
2. If separate tax rates is relatively easy to accomplish, then yes. But I'd still be happy with a singe rate.
3. Hard to say without knowing what % of people go into player corps as is, but I would be happy with an NPC corp tax rate of ~15%. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
i'd say make it a tax on income, if anything. I don't play very often, so I don't have a lot of money, and anything I make goes into restocking lost fits. What would happen if I did't have any more money left. Would taxes be taken out of my account while I was offline. I would have no time to remake the money until the weekend. |
US PWWN
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes (10-15%) |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
876
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Corp tax is hugely important and while it's not been NEEDED before now, it would have made things a lot easier to have it in already before PC is launched.
Having said that, i'd like to see different tax rates for EVE and Dust players if possible, we'd use the same tax rate personally but i could see other people wanting it.
NPC corps should have a reasonably high taxrate too i think to encourage people to play the game socially, as intended. Maybe something in the 15-20% range otherwise having corps with Tax and NPC corps without tax will allow tax evasion for a start and impact corps and PC in a large way. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy ROFL BROS
384
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
"Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do" - Mark Twain
I don't feel like a mercenary if I am obliged to pay my corporation a portion of my earnings. That makes me feel like a worker, and suddenly, as Twain observes, I don't want to be in a corporation anymore.
If this system is implemented though, there's tax wherever I go, because we're automatically thrown into NPC corporations. The freedom is lost; and play becomes work.
Unless the rates are really low. Even then, though, I feel a tax detracts from that sense of being truly mercenary. |
US PWWN
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:i'd say make it a tax on income, if anything. I don't play very often, so I don't have a lot of money, and anything I make goes into restocking lost fits. What would happen if I did't have any more money left. Would taxes be taken out of my account while I was offline. I would have no time to remake the money until the weekend. So personally, i'm against mandatory taxing.
If they taxed it like they taxed EVE it would be a income tax.
Example 1 - So if you go offline with 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account there would be 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account when you log back in (no matter how long you were gone).
Example 2 - If you played a Pub match and made 271,350 ISK in reward, while your corp had a 10% tax rate, then 27,135 ISK would be deposited in your corps wallet and 244,215 ISK would be deposited in your personal wallet.
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
852
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Posted - 2013.04.06 14:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
US PWWN wrote:slypie11 wrote:i'd say make it a tax on income, if anything. I don't play very often, so I don't have a lot of money, and anything I make goes into restocking lost fits. What would happen if I did't have any more money left. Would taxes be taken out of my account while I was offline. I would have no time to remake the money until the weekend. So personally, i'm against mandatory taxing. If they taxed it like they taxed EVE it would be a income tax. Example 1 - So if you go offline with 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account there would be 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account when you log back in (no matter how long you were gone). Example 2 - If you played a Pub match and made 271,350 ISK in reward, while your corp had a 10% tax rate, then 27,135 ISK would be deposited in your corps wallet and 244,215 ISK would be deposited in your personal wallet.
Yes this is how it would work. |
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bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
1: Yes
2: Yes
3: Good idea; Maybe below 10% not to get them to seek lower but to get them accustom to paying some sort of tax because from my experience I found that new players joining a corporation come in not expecting the corporation tax... |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
US PWWN wrote:slypie11 wrote:i'd say make it a tax on income, if anything. I don't play very often, so I don't have a lot of money, and anything I make goes into restocking lost fits. What would happen if I did't have any more money left. Would taxes be taken out of my account while I was offline. I would have no time to remake the money until the weekend. So personally, i'm against mandatory taxing. If they taxed it like they taxed EVE it would be a income tax. Example 1 - So if you go offline with 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account there would be 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account when you log back in (no matter how long you were gone). Example 2 - If you played a Pub match and made 271,350 ISK in reward, while your corp had a 10% tax rate, then 27,135 ISK would be deposited in your corps wallet and 244,215 ISK would be deposited in your personal wallet. Good. This is a lot better than, say, a 1k tax every day. I don't play very often, so I wouldn't be able to make that money up in the few free days I have. |
Liquid Big Boss
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:1. YES 2. Dont see why not 3. meh not important, can leave it at 0
same idea |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
192
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
Yes
Mirror it like it is in EVE
A DUST corp should be in the same boat as an EVE corp
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes |
EUk3sEI
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
27
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
876
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nuillabor, theoretically how long would this take to switch on?.. I'm not asking for time line, just a rough ball park idea. 3 months? 2 weeks? 6 years? |
Vectar Locke
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
49
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Please include if you are a director of a corp or not when answering question 1. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
1036
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
bolsh lee wrote:1: Yes
2: Yes
3: Good idea; Maybe below 10% not to get them to seek lower but to get them accustom to paying some sort of tax because from my experience I found that new players joining a corporation come in not expecting the corporation tax...
I agree with this statement in its entirety. Players should be accustomed to being taxed (while in npc corps) so that they are NOT discouraged from joining player made corporations.
Should it be higher? Possibly but doesn't matter. Because tax rates may vary from corp to corp and may change due to corporation's needs |
Gilbatron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
85
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
1. Yes 2. big no no no, space communism in eve is possible (Corp hangars), but it's impossible in dust, high tax rates on the eve side would be justified, but high tax rates in dust would be ridiculous (subject to change if some kind of shared item pool comes available, but even in that case, different policies in eve and dust make very much sense and should be supported) 3. Yes |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
193
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vectar Locke wrote:Please include if you are a director of a corp or not when answering question 1.
It doesnt matter if you are a CEO or not
How does the corp expect to get funding? from donations? half wont donate, a small tax makes sure everyone puts in anyways
Also it should be on the end of game screen also so you can see how much the corp takes from your earnings after every match |
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Gersh Raven beta
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
57
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Posted - 2013.04.06 15:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
1 Yes. 2 Yes. 3 Yes. Make it 11% like the Eve starter corps |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
474
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Same rate across corp but having a separate rate might be preferable for some corps. 3. Same rate as EVE NPC corps.
To those complaining that you are an employee and paying your corp is wrong don't forget that corps need a means a paying for corp level activities which in turn give you the opportunity to make even more. Donations are possible but you end up with freeloaders or key people that end up paying for everything. |
Fleen Costell'o
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
1/ Yes 2/ Yes 3/ Yes |
Dexter Peabody
Immobile Infantry
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
SKYPE LEAK
[9:56:58 AM] Cerebral Wolf: Tell CCP we need corp tax please
ok cw, ok
edit: what we really need though are jetpacks |
Cat Merc
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
413
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers- 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. YES, tax rate should be 15%-20%. Should be something significant, so people will be encouraged to leave. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
876
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dexter Peabody wrote:SKYPE LEAK
[9:56:58 AM] Cerebral Wolf: Tell CCP we need corp tax please
ok cw, ok
edit: what we really need though are jetpacks
Jetpacks would be better. |
Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Taxes are vital for a successful corp as this game progresses
It may be a very good idea to be able to set different rates for EVE vs DUST members, particularly since the economies are not in balance yet.
NPC corps should have a nominal tax of 10-15% to familiarize them with the mechanic and motivate traffic to player ran corps to drive player experience. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
why even have NPC corps |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
16
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes but with possibility to have seperate taxes (Eve should be apllied by default) 3. Not a bad Idea mybe 10%
And please let us see more financial details. I want to see what income comes from what source and where the money goes... |
Coyskurk
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
61
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
1. Absolutely, no questions asked 2. Go ahead 3. Neh... |
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Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
451
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
1)yes 2)yes 3)yes, about eve's starter corp tax rate would be good. |
Faerghail Verticorda
Cult of the Dust Bunny Cave of Caerbannog
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
1. Absolutely. 2. I'd say setting different taxes would be important, as i.e. a corp with lots of capsuleers and a handful of mercs might not want to set a high tax for both so just that the corp can participate in PC (especially when you can't use corp funds from the wallet(s) of the other game - or don't want to when you can). 3. For consistency 11%. Although at first maybe something lower until there are more corp features so that new players don't feel like they HAVE to join or found a corp right away just to pay lower/no taxes. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core
323
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yes to all.
Brush CEO Havok Core [email protected] |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
1. YES 2. YES 3. Not needed. i'm impartial.
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lordjanuz
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
1. Yes |
PT SD
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
221
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
1. YES 2. YES 3. Not needed.
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0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
1. Maybe 2. PLEASE separate them. 3. Definitely tax starter corps! |
Stephen Rao
Verboten XXI
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. Yes 2. N/A (EVE Noob, not sure of the implications) 3. Yes |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation. |
Saven Kai
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
4
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Posted - 2013.04.06 16:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. No. |
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Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1278
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Yes.yes.yes
Make it just like EVE. Maybe add a way to exclude some members. Or some types of income link to specific game mode. Fot instance not taxing PC individual earnings |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
452
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 17:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation.
you can leave the corp...
more on topic, yes to all. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
201
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 17:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes.
2. No. The vast majority of Dust players wouldn't have any sort of personal wealth if the tax was high in the same way that EVE players could because Dusters aren't making tens of millions of ISK (or more) in an hour.
3. No. There is already significant incentive to join a player corp--develop friendships, be more competitive, work together to be more effective, etc. If people want to stay in an NPC corp for whatever reason, I say let them. You'd just be making people angry for no reason if you started taxing them more than other players. |
Vethosis
Universal Allies Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 17:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
1. If players choose to contribute tax, I would suggest the players that are willing to get taxed from corp to get some sort of reward each week/month.
2. I don't know how to answer that because I haven't played EVE.
3. No, some players won't know how to join corps at first and they might question why ISK is being deducted from their account, and may even get angry. Unless there is an advanced warning that this will happen.
GÇó I suggest it should cost 100k to be accepted into a corp.
GÇó The tax rule wouldn't be in affect to new players in a corp until 7 days after they're in. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
32
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
Generally if you are being taxed then you receive services from the Government as a result of being a member or citizen. At the moment with the power solely in the hands of the directors they could set a tax on all members but the only ones that get to use the money are the elite members of the corp during battles be it PC, Instant or corp. All the rest of the members see is a corp taking your money and others having fun with it in their 'paid by you' proto suits.
I would rather see a profit sharing scheme so all members feel involved. It could work as follows:
The corp sets a base % that all members contribute and if the corp makes a profit from the sale of clones , and other stuff in the future, then that profit is shared among all members of the corp based on that percentage set. If you contribute more then you get a larger percentage of the profit. As part of it the corp would set up an additional fund that diverts a percentage of the profit into to help with future projects. So what you would have is a corp contribution of say 10% and the corp makes a profit and 80% goes to the members and 20% goes into the future defence fund. Of course this only works if a corp is profitable.
The way PC is set up then it would be insane for any Corp to field anything less than their elite players during all PC battles which means that the rest of the corp has no real involvement and never sees any benefit from the tax as it all goes to equipping the elite players.
For those corps that are not profitable then as an alternative they could provide useful services such as seminars on how the UI works, what skills to invest in and actual training events so that their members see some benefit from the money they are "taxed".
Otherwise all that you are describing is nothing more than a parasite I.e. the corp taxes you and you see no benefit as it is all going to the directors and elite members. For the majority of the player base what is the incentive to pay taxes and more importantly keep on paying taxes to a given corps.
Done right the idea of a tax, or whatever scheme is thought up, could create a sense of community as corps try to entice players to their corps because of what they provide to all of their members,not just the best players, but if done wrong you will see big move to NPC corps just so players can spite those who do benefit from the tax levied on them.
If you want to levy a tax then what will you provide in return? |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
251
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1) Yes, of course 2)Yes, except Eve itself should get more granular tax rates so that a Corp in eve could specify taxes based on type of activity rather than one flat rate.
3)Yes, of course. 11%, like Eve |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax. CRONOS.
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'd have to agree with most of the people here, yes, yes and yes.
Taxes are needed as the corp does not recieve much isk unless it's members donate, and alot of people don't understand how to do that, dispite how easy it is.
To be honest, these corps are the same in EVE or Dust514, why should we have different systems for the same corps. |
Geth Massredux
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
113
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
1- Yes I been wanting this since closed beta, Just a way to help out the corp wallet.
2- Not sure how this runs. If anybody can explain real quick how eve tax is.
3- Nah because new players would come on forums asking why is there a tax to there income after a match, then everybody would troll their post etc etc. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Generally if you are being taxed then you receive services from the Government as a result of being a member or citizen. At the moment with the power solely in the hands of the directors they could set a tax on all members but the only ones that get to use the money are the elite members of the corp during battles be it PC, Instant or corp. All the rest of the members see is a corp taking your money and others having fun with it in their 'paid by you' proto suits.
I would rather see a profit sharing scheme so all members feel involved. It could work as follows:
The corp sets a base % that all members contribute and if the corp makes a profit from the sale of clones , and other stuff in the future, then that profit is shared among all members of the corp based on that percentage set. If you contribute more then you get a larger percentage of the profit. As part of it the corp would set up an additional fund that diverts a percentage of the profit into to help with future projects. So what you would have is a corp contribution of say 10% and the corp makes a profit and 80% goes to the members and 20% goes into the future defence fund. Of course this only works if a corp is profitable.
The way PC is set up then it would be insane for any Corp to field anything less than their elite players during all PC battles which means that the rest of the corp has no real involvement and never sees any benefit from the tax as it all goes to equipping the elite players.
For those corps that are not profitable then as an alternative they could provide useful services such as seminars on how the UI works, what skills to invest in and actual training events so that their members see some benefit from the money they are "taxed".
Otherwise all that you are describing is nothing more than a parasite I.e. the corp taxes you and you see no benefit as it is all going to the directors and elite members. For the majority of the player base what is the incentive to pay taxes and more importantly keep on paying taxes to a given corps.
Done right the idea of a tax, or whatever scheme is thought up, could create a sense of community as corps try to entice players to their corps because of what they provide to all of their members,not just the best players, but if done wrong you will see big move to NPC corps just so players can spite those who do benefit from the tax levied on them.
If you want to levy a tax then what will you provide in return? Finally, someone who stick up for the little man. I don't want to give money to fund endeavors I will never be a part of or be able to see the results of. If we got something in return, that would at least lessen the blow. In the future, maybe a percentage of the taxes could be used to by items to put in the corp vault, which could be used by corp members for free. |
Skipper Jones
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
27
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation. ^this made me laugh |
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slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
111
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
Skipper Jones wrote:slypie11 wrote:If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation. ^this made me laugh REVOLUTION, MUTINY |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
1. yes 2. yes 3. Yes about 10% |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
574
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote: "Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do" - Mark Twain
I don't feel like a mercenary if I am obliged to pay my corporation a portion of my earnings. That makes me feel like a worker, and suddenly, as Twain observes, I don't want to be in a corporation anymore.
If this system is implemented though, there's tax wherever I go, because we're automatically thrown into NPC corporations. The freedom is lost; and play becomes work.
Unless the rates are really low. Even then, though, I feel a tax detracts from that sense of being truly mercenary.
Find a corp that has set the tax rate to 0%. Problem solved. Freedom intact.
I say yes to all. |
Madden The Merciless
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
1. yes 2. yes 3. yes (10%)
Corporations need corp taxes, without them we are severely weekend in planetary conquest and in corp replacement, several of the most important parts of corps. The need to ask for donations from members, or to support a corp through directors alone, is not reasonable, and because of this there is a need for taxes. And as in eve, I believe initial corporations should have a standard 10% tax, as that helps get everyone acquainted with the game, and its rules. And it gives corporations the ability to vary tax, to either off higher earnings, or potentially higher taxes, with large secondary benefits, like corp replacement. |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
153
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
Thanks for this by the way.
1. Yes
2. No reason why it shouldn't be.
3. I'd say yes if only to encourage Mercs to find a player corp. I'd say between 10-15% |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
1038
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP why not just put this to a vote in the same way that you did for the skill point system??
|
Sports Dude
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:20:00 -
[57] - Quote
1. yes 2. yes 3. yes, maybe 10-12%? |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
153
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:CCP why not just put this to a vote in the same way that you did for the skill point system??
Judging by the pretty much unanimous responses so far in the first three pages at say a vote is moot at this point. Just a question of when. But I'd also add that corps need some way of giving back to their members as soon as is possible.
Corp hangers are needed badly. I'd also like some sort of intra-corp auction house where members can offload salvage they don't need to other members for ISK. That way there is movement of ISK within the game, giving a further dynamic for players to enjoy, while keeping ISK within the game and a way of mercs getting the best equipment they need for PC. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
455
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
1.yes 2.yes 3.yes 10-15% HOWEVER the money the NPC corps take in tax should be used for things!! I mean they should not be dragging money into the void, that money taken in tax should be used as part of the Event planing and merc contracts and such things, maybe npc tournys or they give some of that money to their best players in the npc corp. Something! it should not just sit idle it should be taken and used for that NPC corps goals and objectives even if that is just a lottery or something or special events! or for doing well in FW. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
719
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
1. Yes.
2. Do not play this EVE, so wouldn't know... so no? Down with the capsuleers, we want our own damn kinds of taxes!
3. Absolutely no. Trying to start out and find your footing in the first few weeks is discouraging enough as it is so no need to punish starting players even more. There are already enough benefits to joining a corporation (the more welcoming corporations hand out ISK to new players anyway) that there are enough incentives in game to join player corporation as is.
However, I would be in favor of a graduated tax for NPC corporations based on SP. So that players that stick around in NPC corporations do not have the 0 tax rate as an incentive to play lone wolf after a few weeks or months in the game. Also would not make leaving a player corporation just to get a tax break as much of an appealing option. |
|
MORTADEL0
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
61
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
1. Yes, PLEASE 2. Yes 3. 11%, yes
CEO GAC |
From Costa Rica
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
1.Yes 2. Make it optional, if the CEO wants us to share taxes yes, if they think there is a better choice they should be able to do it. 3. Only if it some how gets back to the players, they get the money back at the end of the month or something... |
Kaeralli Sturmovos
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
id say,
1)yes 2)yes 3)yes (20%) |
TODDSTER024
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:25:00 -
[64] - Quote
I'm not in a crop nor will I join one, so if they set up a tax it wouldn't bother me. It is understandable for a corp to have one, this way the corp actually has funds.
If a tax is put on NPC corps then I will just make my own corp and keep all my money. |
Void Echo
A.I.
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:54:00 -
[65] - Quote
1. yes, the best percentage would be 5%, you wouldn't really notice it but it would also give a big financial advantage to player corporations.
2. Not too sure on how that would effect anything.
3. yes, the percentage should be 10% so that they notice the actual amount being taken and have to look into how much would be taxed in different places. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3339
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
Corporations are more like states instead of actual corporations. Corporations don't pay their members for their work, but now it seems like the employees will have to pay the corporation. The corp will benefit from its members without being obligated to give anything back in return. If we are to have an obligation to our corp, our corp needs to have an obligation to us.
1. It is not right to force obligation on members to their cop without giving the corp some sort of obligation to its members in return. I really understand how a tax is necessary for funding planetary conquest, but regular corp members need something in return. What do regular members get out of planetary conquest anyway?
2. If you decide to add tax, then yes.
3. No, not unless we have to option of not being in any corp at all. Players should have a choice on if they want to belong in a corp that drains their money, and currently there is no option to be a free agent (no NPC or player corp). This will confuse and anger players (and possibly reviewers), people will flood to the forum complaining that there is some bug that makes their ISK disappear because I'm certain you guys won't make it clear to them in the UI how it works. It is a dumb motivator to join a player corp anyway since the player corp could actually have a higher tax than the NPC corps. No one asked to be part of an NPC corp, and players shouldn't have to join a player-corp just to not have their money stolen. Players need a positive about player corps to motivate them to join. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
1 Yes 2 Yes 3 Yes |
Sextus Hardcock
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
135
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 22:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
1. Yes 2. No until the economies are at least joined and stable, then sure. 3. Doesn't matter. People will just start one man corps to dodge taxes, like eve. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
431
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 22:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
Yes, yes, same as Eve. One caveat is to leave changing the tax rate on the Dust client to the CEO at most. You guys have way too many roles tied into the Director role on Dust, and this particular one isn't something that Directors really need to have access to doing. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
576
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 22:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:1.yes 2.yes 3.yes 10-15% HOWEVER the money the NPC corps take in tax should be used for things!! I mean they should not be dragging money into the void, that money taken in tax should be used as part of the Event planing and merc contracts and such things, maybe npc tournys or they give some of that money to their best players in the npc corp. Something! it should not just sit idle it should be taken and used for that NPC corps goals and objectives even if that is just a lottery or something or special events! or for doing well in FW.
I'd say the money should be used to award eve players for successful OBs in FW. That would bring more people out into the fight.
More fighting in and out of orbit would be a great thing. |
|
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
367
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 23:05:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes. 2. No idea, don't play EVE. 3. I'm leaning towards no. The main persuasion of getting into a corp shouldn't be "Who has the lowest tax rate". But rather they join a corp because it has people they like and enjoy playing with. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1082
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 23:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
yes |
Rich o
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 00:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No |
Sleazy-E
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 00:11:00 -
[74] - Quote
1.) hell yes 2.) separate or the same doesn't really matter. 3.) yes. Tax on NPC. Don't make incentive to not join a corp |
Little Angus
CowTek IT Infotech
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 01:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes. Same as EVE, or separate tax depending on limitations. 3. Yes. Same rate as EVE NPC corps. 11%
|
Piercing Serenity
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
216
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 02:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes
I think NPC corps should have taxes because it encourages the "survival of the fittest" mentality DUST is going for. We are supposed to be mercs at heart. That means we're looking for the best balance between corp skill and corp costs. I don't agree with the argument that NPC corps steal from the little guy, because corps can easily do the same thing to the same little guy, but people seem to be on board with corp taxes. If you are looking for an indicator as to where your money is going (which I also don't think NPC corps need. If you don't like the situation, move to a corp who's mission and goals you support), then maybe we can add some sort of inter-NPC corp conflicts that new players could access instead of planetary conquest. It would have the same layout, but be it's own game mode (I.e. no effect on actual PC) |
Soraya Xel
Gentlemen's Foreign Legion Gentlemen's Agreement
39
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 03:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
YES to all.
Tax for NPC corporations' tax rate should be the SAME as in EVE. We're supposed to be making this one game, right? |
Abused Mind
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 03:15:00 -
[78] - Quote
1) Yes 2) No 3) Yes |
PIMP MAC DADDY 2100374163
A.I.
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 03:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
1.Yes 2.Yes 3.Yes |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
35
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 04:16:00 -
[80] - Quote
TODDSTER024 wrote:NPC corps then I will just make my own corp and keep all my money. Just like Eve. Of course unlike Eve there isn't PvE to fund corporation warfare.
Is the name Cayman Islands open? |
|
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
1039
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 05:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:3. NO Its better for players to want to join a corporation because its a good group of mercs that they enjoy playing with. Players shouldn't be forced into joining corps just to escape a tax. Players need a positive about player corps to motivate them to join, not a "if you don't join one, your money will be stolen".
I would support if players have to option of not being in any corp at all. Players should have a choice on if they want to belong in something that drains their money, and currently there is no option to be a free agent (no NPC or player corp). No one asked to be part of their NPC corp.
This will confuse and anger players (and possibly reviewers), people will flood to the forum complaining that there is some bug that makes their ISK disappear because I'm certain you guys won't make it clear to them in the UI how it works (you didn't explain in the UI for when players hit the SP cap and people came to the forums complaining about the SP gains). Even if the UI did explain it, I doubt you're going to tell them "maybe if you join a player-corporation the tax might be lower".
Seriously consider the first point about rewards to members, and obligation of a corp to its members. EDIT: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67811&find=unread I discuss ways to make the corporation/member relationship mutualistic, and incentivize corp membership.
Forget trying to encourage players to join corps. NPC corps should be taxed as well because you don't want players who are not used to getting taxed...discouraged from joining corps because they will be taxed. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
1039
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 05:16:00 -
[82] - Quote
TODDSTER024 wrote:I'm not in a crop nor will I join one, so if they set up a tax it wouldn't bother me. It is understandable for a corp to have one, this way the corp actually has funds.
If a tax is put on NPC corps then I will just make my own corp and keep all my money.
Just curious though....why would you not want to join one or try building one of your own? What's the point in playing solo? |
Patoman Radiant
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
60
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 05:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
I support, its a feature (or tool) that is free to be used, or not. |
Thrillhouse Van Houten
DIOS EX.
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 06:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
I started a corp in Eve while I played solo with a 0% tax rate. No muss, no fuss. It costs the merest SP to gain the skills. It costs a million (?) ISK, which is not truly very difficult to gain (even less so in Eve). If you really don't want to contribute to a Corp...start your own or find one with a 0% tax rate.
We are space mercenaries but even bands of mercenaries have something taken out of their "cut" by the band leader. Sometimes before they even see their cut, depending on the band leader in question. Often times the leaders keep that treasure trove all to themselves. At least in the structured environ of a Corporation, this pilferage is much less likely to happen.
The fact is, even after Planetary Conquest enters the mix, many newer or smaller Corps won't even be participating in those things. Those Corps are likely to have low or non-existent tax rates and those are, generally, the Corps that newer players will be joining.
I agree that information about Corporate tax rates needs to be available right at the outset and needs to be very clear.
I think it makes perfect sense that NPC have tax rates. These Corps still need money (metagame) to provide the Starter fits and Starter vehicles that they provide the mercs in their Corps. Most new players spend nil on fits, so taxing their income hardly seems unfair. The only question, then, is why a player would pay 11% of, say, 200k ISK in income versus join a PC with a 0% tax rate and use militia fits?
My solution would be to make Starter fits unusable after a player leaves a NPC. Drastic, sure, but makes perfect and utter sense. The 11% NPC tax rate with the penalty of losing Start fits after leaving encourages two things: 1) players to join Player Corporations and 2) players to make their own way with their own fits and their own money. A boost for the economy, too, since it guarantees that anyone out of a NPC is spending money to make money. I guess running out of money is possible (absurdly unlikely), but a new player in a PC should be able to lean on his Corp if he is in that dire of straights. If not, he can always ditch the Corp and rejoin a NPC (free fits, but back to the 11% tax rate).
The caveat to my little idea is to make EVERY weapon, suit type and module available at Militia grade (though I feel a greater discrepancy needs to separate MLT and STD stuff). Currently, it is literally like "why use STD if I have the CPU/PG to use MLT?"
In short: 1) Yes 2) Up to CEO 3) Yes, 11% |
CODE Breaker93
Planetary Response Organisation
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 08:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
Yes Yes Yes |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
33
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 08:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No
The reason that NPC Corps should not be taxed or at a very minimal level e.g. 1% is to give players choice. As I stated in my previous email the primary beneficiaries from the tax will be those who actually get to play in PC. By this I mean the specific members of the corp chosen to defend/attack other territories and not the other members of that corp who are also contributing isk. Currently the system looks like it would be biased towards the Corp and away from the members i.e. the directors are under no obligation to share the wealth or anything else.
So leaving the NPC's as untaxed encourages the player corps to provide incentives as to why that specific player should move to that specific corp and if the promises are not kept then that player can vote with there feet and move to another player corp or back to the NPC.
It should NOT be that players are 'encouraged' to leave the NPC's through punitive tax rates but for player based corps providing benefits to bring in new members. The obligation should not be placed on the player it should be placed on the player-corp.
Do we really want to see a situation where new players join the game, or existing players, are forced to join player corps when it is currently very difficult to compare corps to find one you would like. In addition to the fact that new or low level players spend most of their time dying, will not get into PC unless they are extremely good at FPS, and spend their time watching the corp take their money and give it to other members. Not fun at all. And anything that reduces a person fun in playing a game is always risky for game developers.
States that simply take your money and give nothing back generally find themselves in civil wars at some point. An option not available in Dust.
So I re-iterate give players a place to go where they do not pay taxes, other than creating alt toons for 1 man corps, and place the emphasis on the player corps to provide services that new and existing players want so that these corps are able to recruit and keep members.
There are a number of corps that already do this and I believe these should be the templates for future and current corps if you want to tax players. |
Galrick M'kron
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 09:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
1.I'm in favor of having a corp tax, but it shouldn't be possible to set it higher than 20%. Also, it should be displayed prominently in a corp description. 2.I have no clue about the taxing system in EVE. 3.Absolutely yes. It should be around 30%. That would encourage players to join player corps, which will have lower taxes. |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
218
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 10:35:00 -
[88] - Quote
- Yes
- Yes
- Yes (11% - 15%)
|
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
123
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 11:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
1 yes
2 yes
3 yes - 15% |
XINERA XIOS
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 11:55:00 -
[90] - Quote
1.) Yes, would be a big help for planetary conquest and all money based corp interactions.
2.) No the Ceo should have the possiblity to deside.
3.) Yes, How about 15 to 20 % (In real life we nearly everyweher have more then 20%) |
|
Bucktooth Badger
Buck's Intergalactic Pawn Shop
67
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 12:22:00 -
[91] - Quote
Yes to everything - same reasons as everyone else who has said yes Also for NPC corps - 15%, to get people used to paying tax, but also that they get something out of it as well. Free militia kit each month? ISK bonus? NPC corp battles?
Also, it would be good for the CEO of a corp to see information on who is paying what etc. If a corp is planning some sort of profit sharing scheme (like me) then it would be good to see who is active & deserves it. Rather than a character just sitting there earning nothing for the corp but taking an equ slice of the pie. |
Guilbert 515
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 12:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:US PWWN wrote:slypie11 wrote:i'd say make it a tax on income, if anything. I don't play very often, so I don't have a lot of money, and anything I make goes into restocking lost fits. What would happen if I did't have any more money left. Would taxes be taken out of my account while I was offline. I would have no time to remake the money until the weekend. So personally, i'm against mandatory taxing. If they taxed it like they taxed EVE it would be a income tax. Example 1 - So if you go offline with 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account there would be 2,325,123,671 ISK in your account when you log back in (no matter how long you were gone). Example 2 - If you played a Pub match and made 271,350 ISK in reward, while your corp had a 10% tax rate, then 27,135 ISK would be deposited in your corps wallet and 244,215 ISK would be deposited in your personal wallet. Yes this is how it would work.
1) yes
2) CEO
3) 10-15 |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
881
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes, further the tax should be customizable to any % from 0 to 100 and should be linked to battle types so that Corps don't have to use one blanket rate for Instant Battles, PC, FW et al (it should be based purely on ISK not salvage, in case that's at all in question).
2. Yes.
3. Yes, as to how much based on what I've heard from various Corps 15% would put most player Corps at a lower tax bracket than the NPC Corps.
0.02 ISK Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
881
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:31:00 -
[94] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Corporations are more like states instead of actual corporations. Corporations don't pay their members for their work, but now it seems like the employees will have to pay the corporation. The corp will benefit from its members without being obligated to give anything back in return. If members are to have an obligation to their corp, their corp needs to have an obligation to the members. 1. It is not right to force obligation on members to their cop without giving the corp some sort of obligation to its members in return. I really understand how a tax is necessary for funding planetary conquest, but regular corp members need something in return. What do regular members get out of planetary conquest anyway? 2. If you decide to add tax, then yes. 3. NO Its better for players to want to join a corporation because its a good group of mercs that they enjoy playing with. Players shouldn't be forced into joining corps just to escape a tax. Players need a positive about player corps to motivate them to join, not a "if you don't join one, your money will be stolen".
I would support if players have to option of not being in any corp at all. Players should have a choice on if they want to belong in something that drains their money, and currently there is no option to be a free agent (no NPC or player corp). No one asked to be part of their NPC corp.
This will confuse and anger players (and possibly reviewers), people will flood to the forum complaining that there is some bug that makes their ISK disappear because I'm certain you guys won't make it clear to them in the UI how it works (you didn't explain in the UI for when players hit the SP cap and people came to the forums complaining about the SP gains). Even if the UI did explain it, I doubt you're going to tell them "maybe if you join a player-corporation the tax might be lower".
Seriously consider the first point about rewards to members, and obligation of a corp to its members. EDIT: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67811&find=unread I discuss ways to make the corporation/member relationship mutualistic, and incentivize corp membership.
A few quick responses 1. I agree in principal but that's an internal corp matter, which Corps provide the proper balance between tax rates and benefits returned to members will define the ascendency or collapse of many Corps out there. This allows for more internal culture and player choice, being in a Corp now becomes more mechanically meaningful than having an extra "lfs" lobby to chat in (some Corps already do more than this of course but their efforts are hampered by the lack of tools within the game to enact more sophisticated policies). In short if your Corp isn't giving you a worthwhile return on the tax rate it's imposing then find/create a new corp and do it better
2. no further comment here
3. - Players hanging out in NPC corps shouldn't get an inherent advantage (lower tax rate) this will discourage forming corps in the first place (especially with the current dearth of management tools in game). Further not having some motive mechanical to move into a player corp leads to issues such as there are in EVE where players use NPC corp membership to game the system doing things like running protection rackets in high sec without fear of a war dec because they're in an NPC corp (as one example). It also brakes immersion to have NPC corps (the largest in game corps lore wise) be tax free while other corps are not.
- There is an option for "no corp" just start your own corp and for a (rather low) one time fee and a single rank in one skill you can be tax free forever. What's more if you have a lot of friends who want to be tax free they can join your new tax free corp with no additional ISK fee being incurred. This could even be a way to meet new players and gain squad mates you otherwise wouldn't have, but even if it doesn't form any new social bonds it's still an opt out method already in game which costs less than a Proto fit.
- I fully agree that the UI must clearly report to the player both the % and the raw amount of ISK being taxed on a per battle basis. Further the in game tutorials should cover this subject clearly and explicitly, including a statement that player corps often have lower tax rates. Furthermore the corp tax rate for all player and NPC corps should be clearly displayed on the main corp info page and the tax rates of any corp you are in (NPC or Player) should be listed on your character sheet.
Cheers, Cross |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
176
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:39:00 -
[95] - Quote
I am a CEO
1 yes 2 no should be configured seperately since economies not yet balanced 3 yes same as eve
We also desperately need better tools for paying our mercs employees and the ability to override the tax rates on an individual basis. Most importantly wee need transactional info for the wallet as well to include how much in taxes, donations and outgoing payments to individuals have been made with the corp wallet. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
The Tritan Industries
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:47:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Follow NPC corporation taxes from EVE (tax-rate at 11%)
|
Michael221987
Lost-Legion Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:52:00 -
[97] - Quote
If Corps are going to have to pay for the MCC's that get blown up and pay for planetary bases and stations then the corps are going to have to have a tax in order to have money to do stuff everyone is greedy with there money so having an auto tax set by the CEO and directors with a set percentage taken out of every battle is a good idea in eve right the CEO and directors and myself have agreed to be taxed 20% of anything over either 100,000 ISK or 200,000 ISK can't remember which one, and so far its workinga I think we should apply this method on DUST514 as well. I would like to have it to where this taxing would apply for both dust and eve but make it some how far since there are loop holes in what I just said or the eve side. Are we going to have one wallet for both eve and dust and are you going to combine both of the wallets?
As for the NPC I wouldn't tax them cause most of them are Newbies and majority of them start in NPC's to get the hang of things and then they jump in corps once they find out why they should be in one. |
DreadPirate Robertson
Pirate Bay Tax Haven
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 19:55:00 -
[98] - Quote
Michael221987 mentioned being taxed on amounts exceeding either 100k or 200k Isk. If it were possible to set a personal allowance below which you are not taxed would be a very useful tool.
As a new character, cloned today, I spent almost all of it dying a lot, and my earning fell between 110k and 200k per game with as many as 7 deaths. As such I need as much financial support as possible if I am to afford better than militia equipment.
|
Schalac 17
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 20:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
I say leave tax out of DUST. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
199
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
Why do so many people want the EVE tax to be the same as the dust tax, and not let CEOs decide?
IMO CCP should wait until ISK can be transferred between EVE and DUST before they make the tax the same. If they do not, I'm going to bet that a few corps will split up into DUST side and EVE side corps. That way CEOs can manage the DUST side and the EVE side separately. Forcing CEOs to make the same choice for both sides on tax does not make EVE and DUST closer.
Let's say a corporation's DUST wallet needs more $, and the CEO wants to raise the tax to raise money for the DUST side of things. He wants a 25% tax, and the EVE normal rate is 10%. Now the CEO is forced to make the EVE players pay 25% too.
Same thing for DUST. EVE side might need $, but the DUST side might be fine. Now DUST mercs have to pay more, even though the corp does not need or want the $.
Plus, from my understanding, EVE players can trade items and money and need **** crafted. If DUST gets stuff like that, I'd be happier about it. I have a bunch of stuff I can donate/trade with other players, so if corporations can use the tax to get those (officer) tier gear that cannot be purchased on the market, there would be additional benefits to a tax. |
|
Thrillhouse Van Houten
DIOS EX.
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:57:00 -
[101] - Quote
Taxes aren't fixed in Eve. A CEO sets the Corps tax rate and the members pay into the Corp wallet out of the money they make. Nothing would force ANY CEO to adjust his tax rate the same in Eve as in Dust, to my understanding (I play both). The option to do so would be there, though, and bloody well should be.
@ DreadPirate Robertson: The taxes would come out of your earnings at a percentage rate, not a static number. No CEO will be able to tax you "200k ISK per match" but rather "21% of income." So if you earn 200k ISK in a match, you will give 42k ISK to your Corp in taxes. If your tax rate is 2%, you'd give 4k ISK. If it was 80%, you'd be giving 160k ISK. The tax rate is up to your CEO...the choice to join the Corp with any given tax rate is up to you.
People act like picking and staying in a Corp is a life-altering decision. It isn't. If you feel your tax dollars are being spent unwisely or unfairly...you can leave your current Corp in lieu of another one. Corp tax rates hardly restrict your freedom as you have unlimited freedom of choice (assuming your own standards aren't too stringent).
Again, newbies receive basically free everything at the outset. Taking 11% out of the money they earn for free will introduce them to the likely scenario of being realistically taxed by any PC they join. A Corp that sets its tax rate too high will lose members or not attract new members or both. A Corp that sets its tax rate too low will likely have members flocking to it, but may not be able to fund its conquests.
A newbie gaining 200k ISK per match versus 178k ISK per match is, in practice, insignificant. A person could go through dozens of games before even realizing that they are being taxed (if nothing says you are...but it should say you are). For a guy using free suits, the numbers are easy come, easy go. They aren't spending any money anyways. Starter fits should be unlimited, but there is no reason they need to be entirely "free" in the sense that you get as many free fits as you want as long as you pay your NPC taxes. Fair enough. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 22:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
@Thrillhouse Van Houten. I think DreadPirate Robertson was trying to say is that it would be useful if it were possible for a Corp to be able to set a Personal Allowance level before any tax is deducted for example the corp sets the personal allowance at 150k Isk per battle.
So the player earns 200k Isk for that battle and the tax rate is 10%. The first 150k is not taxable as this is the personal allowance set by the corp. Of the remaining 50k Isk (200 - 150) it is taxed at the 10% rate i.e the corp receives 5000 Isk from that player.
I view it as the Mercs are independent contractors, not employees, and are entitled to tax deductions and in the UK a Personal Allowance. I do not know what tax structures exist elsewhere but I assume most people are able to claim some form of tax deduction. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
1, Yes 2, Yes 3, Yes |
SAU xD
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:30:00 -
[104] - Quote
Yes to all
|
tastzlike chicken
ROGUE SPADES
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 02:29:00 -
[105] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. 10%- 15% |
Mark Crusader
Much Crying Old Experts
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 02:53:00 -
[106] - Quote
This could be implemented with a server-side change only. Just copy the corp tax-rate from how it is set in Eve. Until the client receives the UI control, a Dust corp would have to have an Eve character set as a director. |
Tim Rapp
Tank Bros.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:26:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mark Crusader wrote:This could be implemented with a server-side change only. Just copy the corp tax-rate from how it is set in Eve. Until the client receives the UI control, a Dust corp would have to have an Eve character set as a director.
I don't like the idea of forcing the Ceo of a Corp to have a eve character as director. I like all 3 of the original ideas from the dev |
BatKing Deltor
Tank Bros.
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:42:00 -
[108] - Quote
1.yes 2.yes 3.yes
|
falcon7478
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 08:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes. 15-20% |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
97
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 10:43:00 -
[110] - Quote
1. yes
2. yes.
3. yes. |
|
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
123
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 11:23:00 -
[111] - Quote
This thread is funny, its all yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,.
You have my 3 yes as well.
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes
Though I would like to see a balancing feature, corps need money to operate, but they also need people to defend and attack objectives, I'd like to see options for suit/weapon replacement put in where a corp can issue back gear easily when mercs lose them. OR, during a corp event the corp can place fittings that a merc can choose and use corp gear rather then personal gear.
The taxes would b from player to corp, but I feel it needs the above to complete the circuit and allow corps and players to interact better. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
652
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes, sorta- I would confine it to the same kinds of income that EVE does. I don't think that people should be taxed by their corp on stuff that they sell (market please!) as that can represent double taxation. If I already paid taxes on the money I used to buy a bunch of Type-II Scouts and then I decide I don't like them and want to sell off the rest, I shouldn't get taxed by my corp on that.
2. Yes. I think that's the easiest way to go.
3. Yes. Same as EVE.
Also, it is vitally important that corp managers have a detailed wallet (like EVE) and that corps be able to buy and distribute equipment. That and player-based trading and selling. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2404
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
1. Definitely. In fact, I'd prefer more options than just "X% of income" - Corps should be able to set tax in such a way that it encourages members to play regularly. If someone wants a highly-active Corp, they could set a fixed-rate periodic tax on members instead of (or possibly as well as) a % of your income. That way, if you're more active, the tax hurts less. Also, we could do with a "tax exempt" option for certain players - or at least certain roles.
2. As a default, yes. But I think it should be possible to tax both groups at different rates if the Corp chooses to do so.
3. I'd say yes, but it depends what you want to do with this. You don't want to force new players to create a wave of startup Corps that will never go anywhere, and setting the tax bar too high will make everyone start by creating their own Corp just to avoid being taxed. You also don't want to drop all the way down to 0 if the aim is to encourage players to move out of NPC Corps. I'd say probably 10% is a good level, some player Corps will use that as a "baseline" level, some will push for more on the grounds that "we're better Corpmates" and some will ask less to give people more incentive to join. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
354
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:31:00 -
[114] - Quote
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:56:00 -
[115] - Quote
Bucktooth Badger wrote:Yes to everything - same reasons as everyone else who has said yes Also for NPC corps - 15%, to get people used to paying tax, but also that they get something out of it as well. Free militia kit each month? ISK bonus? NPC corp battles? Also, it would be good for the CEO of a corp to see information on who is paying what etc. If a corp is planning some sort of profit sharing scheme (like me) then it would be good to see who is active & deserves it. Rather than a character just sitting there earning nothing for the corp but taking an equ slice of the pie.
+1 |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 16:14:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes 2. No, allow settings for both. 3. Yes, allow people to not be in a corp. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
286
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 16:39:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: [poll]
1) Yes, definately 2) No, again definately as income models are so different. Should be easy to do. 3) Yes. Not absolutely necessary but ok thing. 5% might do the trick. |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 16:45:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1). Yes entirely
2). I don't play eve so I can't answer
3). Yes but NPC corporate members should have some benefit from it. Players (CEO) wanting to create their own single member corporation to avoid this tax should be taxed relative to the number of corporate members (i.e. high tax which gradually lowers as the corporation accepts more members to compensate this CEO tax). This would control for those players wanting to avoid NPC corporation taxes with bogus corporations). |
Crazy Viper
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 16:53:00 -
[119] - Quote
1. Yes
2. No. More options are always better. If the corps want to use the same tax rate, they can still do so. Let them decide.
3. No. It doesn't make sense to tax NPC corps in DUST. As others have indicated people will just create their own tax shelter corps and pay nothing. And what would be the point of that? It's different from EVE. If you are in a player corp in EVE, others can declare war on you, attack you and destroy your stuff. If you are in an NPC corp you are (more or less) safe and in exchange you pay the default tax. Creating your own corp is risk free in DUST and it'd always be profitable on the long run, if the NPC corp has >0 tax. |
Caliban Xpresscius
Jump Out Boys
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 18:47:00 -
[120] - Quote
1. Yep 2. Really can't answer that since I'm just a Duster 3. Yes, range between 10-15% |
|
Piercing Serenity
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
220
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 20:45:00 -
[121] - Quote
Crazy Viper wrote:1. Yes
2. No. More options are always better. If the corps want to use the same tax rate, they can still do so. Let them decide.
3. No. It doesn't make sense to tax NPC corps in DUST. As others have indicated people will just create their own tax shelter corps and pay nothing. And what would be the point of that? It's different from EVE. If you are in a player corp in EVE, others can declare war on you, attack you and destroy your stuff. If you are in an NPC corp you are (more or less) safe and in exchange you pay the default tax. Creating your own corp is risk free in DUST and it'd always be profitable on the long run, if the NPC corp has >0 tax.
There's no net loss then. The system we have now works okay, and we have no corporation taxes. If you want to create a one man corp, fine. But the ISK you save on taxes will be pennies compared to the ISK you would have made with a big corporation, taxes included. |
Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:20:00 -
[122] - Quote
1. Yes
2. Need the option to be separate.
3. Personally I would be fine with this as I am used to it through EVE. However perhaps opening up certain NPC corps such as a FW militia that allows players to fight for a certain side, with loyalty rewards etc, and have that NPC corp be taxed might save the complaints from those unaware or unused to the system.
However some level of isk transfer, or at least an Alliance/Corp market within Dust would at least give corps a way to 'give back'. Keep the EVE/DUST transfer separate until that has been worked out, but internal transfers and market transactions among corps would create an incentive to help your buddies. Eg. Players pay tax, corp buys clones takes PC zones, gets PC income, buys gear on Market, sells cheap internally or donates to players. Certain players such as those piloting vehicles MAY end up spending more in support of their corp than others (although if you keep vehicle loss to a minimum you might be out-done by someone losing a number of suits).
So, give us corp tax. But also give the corps/alliances a way to give back to their community. An internal market for an alliance or corp could be a good testing ground for integrating the larger DUST community to a free market. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 08:17:00 -
[123] - Quote
I have noted that a number of players have requested the tools to be able to monitor who sends in how much isk to the corp and then how it is spent by the corps. Obviously this is a necessary and very important tool.
However, I believe that players should also have access to tools that allow them to see how much isk is being provided to the corp through taxes, drilled down to the individual contributions of members, as well as any profits generated from the sale of clones etc. They should also be able to see how the corp is spending that isk right down to who the corp is giving isk to or if a warehouse is instituted then who who is drawing on it and to what value as well as seeing the purchase of facilities etc
This report should be auto generated by the system on not by the CEO/Directors of the company.
In this manner the individual members of the corp have some means of holding the corp accountable or at least allowing them to quickly decide to leave that corp.
In addition to this players should be able to see the general accounts, with less detailed info on display, of all corps so that they can decide if they want to join a particular corp.
Finally for this to work there needs to be a searchable database listing all corps, and their accounts, that the players can access so they can make informed decisions about which corp to join. This obviously needs to contain details like how many members their of that corp, tax rates, philosophy of the corp, performance, and assets etc |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:08:00 -
[124] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:1. Definitely. In fact, I'd prefer more options than just "X% of income" - Corps should be able to set tax in such a way that it encourages members to play regularly. If someone wants a highly-active Corp, they could set a fixed-rate periodic tax on members instead of (or possibly as well as) a % of your income. That way, if you're more active, the tax hurts less. Also, we could do with a "tax exempt" option for certain players - or at least certain roles.
2. As a default, yes. But I think it should be possible to tax both groups at different rates if the Corp chooses to do so.
3. I'd say yes, but it depends what you want to do with this. You don't want to force new players to create a wave of startup Corps that will never go anywhere, and setting the tax bar too high will make everyone start by creating their own Corp just to avoid being taxed. You also don't want to drop all the way down to 0 if the aim is to encourage players to move out of NPC Corps. I'd say probably 10% is a good level, some player Corps will use that as a "baseline" level, some will push for more on the grounds that "we're better Corpmates" and some will ask less to give people more incentive to join.
I can see what you are getting but I do have some reservations. In answer to your points:
1. What you are talking about is a penalty clause. I think if you find a player is not active enough for your corp you should boot them out. As this penalty clause would allow for significant abuse and is penalising people for having a life outside of the game. This is extreme but for example you could set the penalty clause at 10 million isk a day if that specific player does not play 100 games that day because you know they are away etc and have plenty of isk in their account.
2. This takes elements from points 1 and 2. You could refer to it as the Friends, Family and Favourites tax i.e. you set a very low tax on them and a higher tax on everyone else. When you made the point I assume you referring to members who are low on isk or were new players in general.
3. I agree with you a 5-10% tax for NPC corps so new players get used to the idea and don't all rush to make mini corps that have no involvement with the wider community.
There is nothing wrong with your suggestions and under the write circumstances would be very useful to a corp but with no means to counter the power of the CEO/Directors or even monitor their activities it would just make it too easy to abuse these functions. Yes we live in a harsh universe but we shouldn't make it too easy to steal isk from corp members. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2413
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:49:00 -
[125] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:1. Definitely. In fact, I'd prefer more options than just "X% of income" - Corps should be able to set tax in such a way that it encourages members to play regularly. If someone wants a highly-active Corp, they could set a fixed-rate periodic tax on members instead of (or possibly as well as) a % of your income. That way, if you're more active, the tax hurts less. Also, we could do with a "tax exempt" option for certain players - or at least certain roles.
2. As a default, yes. But I think it should be possible to tax both groups at different rates if the Corp chooses to do so.
3. I'd say yes, but it depends what you want to do with this. You don't want to force new players to create a wave of startup Corps that will never go anywhere, and setting the tax bar too high will make everyone start by creating their own Corp just to avoid being taxed. You also don't want to drop all the way down to 0 if the aim is to encourage players to move out of NPC Corps. I'd say probably 10% is a good level, some player Corps will use that as a "baseline" level, some will push for more on the grounds that "we're better Corpmates" and some will ask less to give people more incentive to join. I can see what you are getting but I do have some reservations. In answer to your points: 1. What you are talking about is a penalty clause. I think if you find a player is not active enough for your corp you should boot them out. As this penalty clause would allow for significant abuse and is penalising people for having a life outside of the game. This is extreme but for example you could set the penalty clause at 10 million isk a day if that specific player does not play 100 games that day because you know they are away etc and have plenty of isk in their account. 2. This takes elements from points 1 and 2. You could refer to it as the Friends, Family and Favourites tax i.e. you set a very low tax on them and a higher tax on everyone else. When you made the point I assume you referring to members who are low on isk or were new players in general. 3. I agree with you a 5-10% tax for NPC corps so new players get used to the idea and don't all rush to make mini corps that have no involvement with the wider community. 1. I think you're misunderstanding my point here. If you're being charged a flat-rate tax of 200,000 ISK per week, and nothing else, then you can have one good game a week, and everything else you earn goes to you. If it's a million a week, then you need to keep up a more solid play schedule to earn your money back, but the more active you are, the lower the effective percentage you're paying out from your earnings.
2. Not really. More that most EVE players are earning more than DUST Mercs can in the current game environment. It makes sense to adjust tax rates - like many governments do in the real world - based on the person's income. It also leaves Corps open to offer tax incentives if they want to recruit players from one side more than the other.
Quote:There is nothing wrong with your suggestions and under the write circumstances would be very useful to a corp but with no means to counter the power of the CEO/Directors or even monitor their activities it would just make it too easy to abuse these functions. Yes we live in a harsh universe but we shouldn't make it too easy to steal isk from corp members. I definitely agree that the system requires MUCH better Corp management tools than we have at present. CEOs need to be able to assign roles with a much wider variety of access levels than "nothing" or "almost everything" like we have at present. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:46:00 -
[126] - Quote
@Garrett Blacknova
1. Nothing wrong with flat rates. My concern was more to do with how easy it would to abuse and if I remember correctly, not always the case, part of your suggestion was the possibility that the flat rate could be in combination with a percentage % corp tax. The result being you get taxed on each battle as well as paying an additional flat rate, at specified times even if you are not online playing the game, that comes out of your Isk savings. So for example you go on holiday for 10 days, you obviously won't be paying any income tax but the corp could still be taking out Isk from your account while you are away. Another scenario could be the CEO got bored or running low on funds and drains your account dry while you were away. This mechanism would make this easy. Like I said in principle I like the idea but without the right safeguards why would any player put themselves in a situation like this. It is one thing to steal the corps Isk but how would any of us feel if we came back to the game to find our personal Isk had been taken. It is not even a matter of HTFU you would just avoid corps that could do this.
2. Same as number 1. It is a matter of safeguards and transparency. Ultimately if we are unhappy with the rates of tax our governments introduce we can vote them out of power or even take them to court. These options are not really available in Dust. All you can do is leave and by then the damage is done.
3. It is not simply a matter of better management tools for the managers of the corp it is also providing tools to all the members of the corp, from lowest to highest, to monitor what money is brought into the corp and how it is being managed and spent. It goes back to the argument about safeguards and how easy it would to abuse the members of the corp who would be paying these taxes.
Again what you have suggested are good ideas, I rather like the idea of paying 100-200k Isk a day, rather than 10-20% of my daily income as I am currently an active player. My concern is solely about safeguards. What would stop a CEO increasing the rate into millions of Isk shortly before the tax is deducted from your account. Or doing the something similar while you are away. I do not anyone to have direct access to what is in effect my savings account.
The way around this and might have been what you were thinking for point 1 is that I play my games and at the appropriate moment I actively send the specified amount to the corp. This way the corp does not have access to my Isk account. The safeguards for the rest or more passive and reliant on the members of corp being able to monitor the financial activities of the corp in a report format generated by the computer system and not by players within the corp to ensure accuratacy and honesty.
Sorry if I am misrepresenting your idea but I just wanted to share my concerns. |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
125
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
I have already voted on this subject and have spoken to a few other ceos as well as my and their mercs all op us have agreed to the corptax and came to the same common belief that a corp should be able to automaticly set its income tax for its mercs but only an income tax as this would be fair for severall reasons.
1 if you wish to participate in pc corp battles and faction war fair it is unfair to expect your ceo and officers to fund all the clones ect as you will enevidibly die allot and that will be expensive .
2 if you dont want to participate in pc or corp battles or faction warfair then join a corp with no tax rate and just play pub games.
3 your rewards from partisipating in pc corp battles and faction warfare will be much greater than that in pub games so thusly it making the tax that will enable you to play in these maches worh it.
4 the income tsx would only remove from your income and not your own personal savings. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2415
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:34:00 -
[128] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:safeguards and transparency. That's a REALLY good point, and one I managed to gloss over in my own thoughts about the idea. Well spotted.
If there was a limit on how mcuh/how often money could be taken from a Corp member's account, I think that would prevent this kind of problem.
Or if fixed-rate tax changes had to be agreed to by the Corp member before they took effect?
Might have to think this over, I definitely thought it was a much better idea before you made this reply. Not so sure about it now. I still like it as a concept, I'm just having trouble coming up with a good way to implement it without being a little TOO open for abuse, even by New Eden standards. |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 15:43:00 -
[129] - Quote
1. Yes.
2. No. DUST mercs usually have higher overhead than Eve players.
In DUST, any equipment taken into a match is likely not to come back out of it again; loss of kit is common and often costly. An Eve mission runner can crank out the ISK-ies basically at cost of ammo with little chance of ship loss. Unless and until DUST has a similar method of printing ISK at the cost of nothing but time, a corp can sanely tax Eve players at a much higher rate than DUSTies, and should be allowed to set different rates.
3. Loners lose more. I don't think much more inducement to join a corp is needed. |
B Team
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 20:40:00 -
[130] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
All of this is IMO, and I'm not very experienced yet, but it seems to me that applying a tax to players to work for you seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of mercenaries. So...
1. No. All other questions rendered moot.
The ISK a player gets from a battle should depend on the whim of the corp. X per battle + Y per kill, Z per revive, N per objective capture, etc, and perhaps even a negative modifier for clone replacement. To make it easier for mercs to choose their battles.. have a "base" value offered by NPC corps and allow corps to just modify the base if they want (base x2, base x0.5, etc) or do a custom payment schedule. Corps may offer different payment schedules for their own members/alliance members/unaffiliated mercs.
The loot a player gets from a battle should go to the corp sponsoring his/her presence there, and the bulk of the Dust ISK market should be made up of this loot, with CCP backstopping it at unreasonably high prices for when no corp has a particular item on offer. This would suggest much higher loot scavenging rates, but lower level loot would be acceptable then, because it gets resold to Dust players, hopefully at a profit for the corp.
Thus the bulk of the ISK generation in Dust comes from planet owning corps, and not from CCP sponsored play. |
|
Thrillhouse Van Houten
DIOS EX.
59
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:07:00 -
[131] - Quote
I feel like people get really stuck on the word "mercenaries." Mercs don't HAVE to be unkempt, five o'clock shadow scratching, rumpled 10-day unwashed combat fatigues wearing, lawless badasses. The only requirement that needs to be satisfied in order to be called a mercenary is that you get paid to perform an action (usually combat) for someone.
A Merc Corp (Corporation is a word in which its typical members are usually called "employees") is merely a collection of people getting paid to fight for an employer. Why an individual mercenary should absolutely not be subject to having a portion of their "cut" of the contract payment withheld for the good of the Corp is beyond me. As I pointed out before, I'm sure many "real" Merc bands had their individual shares reduced by ridiculous amounts by greedy leadership and quite often.
If you want to be the hard-assed rogue you picture when you hear the word "mercenary" simply join a Corp with a 0% tax rate. There. You're a "Mercenary" and not an "Employee" or a "Soldier." Your desire to be YOUR ideal of a Merc shouldn't prevent other people from voluntarily joining Corps that charge a tax rate, though. Any realistic CEO that plans to involve their Corp in Factional Warfare and Planetary Conquest is going to NEED serious dough to do it. We can't all get hired by richer, bigger PCs or Alliances and those richer and bigger PCs will inevitably need to lean on their individual Corpmembers to make ISK. If their chosen method is by tax rather than selling salvage, more power to them.
Once the player market opens up and Planetary Conquest enters the mix, I imagine the bulk of ISK generation WILL come from PCs that own districts making and selling biomass OR the resale of salvaged goods. Keep in mind that the term Contract is not solely applied to a NPC paying a player to fight in pub matches. A wealthy Eve or Dust alliance may very well hire out smaller or niche Corps to fight in their battles. They will pay a Contract and the PC they are paying will be making ISK completely independently of anything CCP has set up. Income taxes would come out of that contract fee at the exact same percentage as out of a fee garnered from a NPC entity. |
B Team
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 01:47:00 -
[132] - Quote
Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: As I pointed out before, I'm sure many "real" Merc bands had their individual shares reduced by ridiculous amounts by greedy leadership and quite often.
You might want to actually look at what happens rather than just being "sure". Most mercenary corporations these days give set wages + bonus, not take some sort of tithe from the group.
Over history, not paying the mercenary corps you hired was a good way to find yourself having to fight them. Didn't happen often, and certainly not more than once by anybody. |
Thrillhouse Van Houten
DIOS EX.
59
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 07:01:00 -
[133] - Quote
B Team wrote:Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: As I pointed out before, I'm sure many "real" Merc bands had their individual shares reduced by ridiculous amounts by greedy leadership and quite often. You might want to actually look at what happens rather than just being "sure". Most mercenary corporations these days give set wages + bonus, not take some sort of tithe from the group. Over history, not paying the mercenary corps you hired was a good way to find yourself having to fight them. Didn't happen often, and certainly not more than once by anybody.
Are you "sure?" Practice what you preach.
I never said that the organization contracting the mercenaries wouldn't pay, I said that the group leader OF the mercenaries might skim a little off the top. Very different.
Most mercenary corporations "these days" still have in-house fees and overhead. Gotta pay for the gas for those armored vehicles, right? The mercs in the group aren't going to bust out their wallets, right? So the boss has to pay, right? He doesn't pay out of his share, does he? No. He pays out of the total negotiated fee that the mercenary group has contracted for. In essence, each member pays a little bit out of his share of the total in order to pay for the gas, the bullets, the vehicles, etc...Once all those expenses are met, then each member would collect his money. So it is collected out of the negotiated contract that means it isn't a tax? Isn't that what a tax is? So if it didn't show the tax being collected, and you just received your nominal fee...would that be better? Like in "real life?"
You don't like calling it a tax? Call it a "withheld stipend" or some damn thing. It amounts to the same thing. The leader of the Corp needs money to pay for stuff for the Corp...he doesn't pay from his own pocket (nor should he) he asks each member to contribute a fair share and then uses that money to pay. A "Corp Tax" if you will... |
ERIC ALIGHIERI
152d VANGUARD MERCENARIES
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 07:07:00 -
[134] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. YES 2.YES 3.YES
|
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1291
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 08:44:00 -
[135] - Quote
B Team wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers- All of this is IMO, and I'm not very experienced yet, but it seems to me that applying a tax to players to work for you seems counter-intuitive to the whole idea of mercenaries. So... 1. No. All other questions rendered moot. The ISK a player gets from a battle should depend on the whim of the corp. X per battle + Y per kill, Z per revive, N per objective capture, etc, and perhaps even a negative modifier for clone replacement. To make it easier for mercs to choose their battles.. have a "base" value offered by NPC corps and allow corps to just modify the base if they want (base x2, base x0.5, etc) or do a custom payment schedule. Corps may offer different payment schedules for their own members/alliance members/unaffiliated mercs. The loot a player gets from a battle should go to the corp sponsoring his/her presence there, and the bulk of the Dust ISK market should be made up of this loot, with CCP backstopping it at unreasonably high prices for when no corp has a particular item on offer. This would suggest much higher loot scavenging rates, but lower level loot would be acceptable then, because it gets resold to Dust players, hopefully at a profit for the corp. Thus the bulk of the ISK generation in Dust comes from planet owning corps, and not from CCP sponsored play.
Hmmmm, with all this you're forgetting that a corporation provides services to its mercenaries. Or at least it will, in the future, just like in EVE :
=> Provides work (No PC for you out of a corp and probably tough time in FW) => Provides backup and support by gathering mercs and organizing the whole thing. => Is supposed to make you do better on the field => Provides logistic : not much in dust atm i agree, but when player exchange is added, simple fact of being in a corp will facilitate things for you => Can back you up if you end up having an ISK problem => Etc.
All this is paid back by getting taxed on your individual income. Only makes sense. |
Jaiden Longshot
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
275
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 12:27:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1) Yes 2) Yes - Though a specific tax for each Dust and EVE would be nice. 3) Yes 15% |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
87
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
1. Yes, a tax system would be hugely appreciated. The tax should be corp wide and not have individual taxes as that could easily be exploited. Having a % seems sensible as opposed to even having the option of a set amount. Percentage means that everyone pays fairly for how long they spend playing the game.
2. Maybe, leaning towards no. Dust players earn nothing even close to EVE players so a lower tax would help. On the other hand, things should be fair and a corp-wide tax should apply to everyone; EVE players have 5% of 30mill taken off them where Dust players have 5% of 300k meaning that EVE players still lose a lot.
3. Yes, definitely but not to force players into another corp. NPC corps will have more readily available contracts and such and so they GÇ£needGÇ¥ more money. Perhaps the money given to NPC corps become part of our match rewards? Weekly jackpot event maybe? This also begs the question: if we work on a contract for another corp, could we be taxed by that corp for a percentage of the payout? |
Odayian Dust Bunny
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
33
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:56:00 -
[138] - Quote
1) Yes 2) Yes, separate rates would be a bonus. 3) Yes, somewhere between 10-20%
Off the top, taxes take very little from each fight. If you're a merc and depend on that 20k because of your suit cost and inability to stay alive, you're doing something horribly wrong. If you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. With PC coming up soon, taxes help out a lot. A corporation can't justify staying alive off donations alone. At that point, it also becomes very unbalanced. Some players will donate 10 mil others only 10k but may expect special treatment for what they've done. Taxes will help eliminate this issue because everyone is supporting the corporation at an equal rate. |
Llan Heindell
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 17:50:00 -
[139] - Quote
Yes. Yes, after all, its a percentage tax. Yes, 11% as in Eve.
Llan Heindell. |
Rim Tavis
Arccos Security
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 20:59:00 -
[140] - Quote
Answer to Question 1) Yes, but the tax should only be on income of completed battles.
Answer to Question 2) It doesn't matter to me.
Answer to Question 3) No. Reason for Answer: It could create a "tax cap" for Player Corporations. |
|
Vethosis
Universal Allies Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 21:30:00 -
[141] - Quote
yes |
Bucktooth Badger
Buck's Intergalactic Pawn Shop
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 10:10:00 -
[142] - Quote
Is there any development on this? Likelihood of it being implemented in the 'Uprising' release? |
KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
334
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 11:11:00 -
[143] - Quote
1. No
2. No
3. None.
How about something that lets the Corp know who has donated and what their comment was on the donation form. As of now none of that information gets to the Corp and I have been donating for some time now.
Might be time to start a Zero Tax Corp just to see how the Mercs react to having 11% taken from their earnings by an NPC Corp. Since that ISK is lost forever and does nothing for anything in DUST it is the worst type of incentive. Join a Corp or we will throw away your ISK. Have a nice day. |
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
109
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 14:33:00 -
[144] - Quote
1: Yes 2: If the CEO can set it, then yes. 3: Yes. Same as EVE starter/NPC corps. |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
399
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 16:41:00 -
[145] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Don't know
3. No. Player corp taxes can still benefit the player while NPC corp taxes don't yield any long term benefits. It just punishes players for not being in player corps (mostly new players). |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 17:35:00 -
[146] - Quote
1. Yes, absolutely! 2. Yes, make it just like the tax on bounties and missions, except DUST players get taxed on their ambush, skirmish and OMS games. 3. Tax should be set on NPC corporations, just like in EVE. iirc they are ~6%? Make it just like EVE please. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
148
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:11:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1.) YES, Its hard to count on everyone in a 500 + man corp to pay weekly taxes via donations (much harder to actually count on them wanting to do that). Passive taxing is a good idea because it makes things more streamlined for the more forgetful members of EVERY corporation.
2.) NO, It should be separate simply because of how the games right now are not linked. Lets use a few examples to explain this. IF my Eve corp has a 50% tax because of a war were in right now, why should my Dust mercs be taxed 50% when for all intensive purposes, they have no connection to eve at all? Not to mention how the corp wallets aren't connected AT ALL. It comes down to this..... If a CEO wants the tax to be the same between both games then that's their choice, if they dont want that and want to customize then hey, why shouldn't they be able to?
3.) YES, this eliminates the excuse of players saying "why dont I just stick in an NPC corp and keep all my money?" the default tax in my opinion should be 25% give or take a bit. This would be considered a relatively high tax, and would really motivate people to find a player corp, or to start their own. This number would also set a standard for other merc corps to model off of because of how most corps would hope to have a tax slightly less then 25%.
I mean..... if NPC corps have a 10% tax, whats the point of moving to player corps if the chances of them having less then that is very slim?? Either way, whatever YOU devs choose, just keep in mind that any NPC number you set on tax will set a standard for Player corps to look at. That is because that number would be a "constant" among all the variables (player corp taxes) that would be moving around. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
148
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Crazy Viper wrote:1. Yes
2. No. More options are always better. If the corps want to use the same tax rate, they can still do so. Let them decide.
3. No. It doesn't make sense to tax NPC corps in DUST. As others have indicated people will just create their own tax shelter corps and pay nothing. And what would be the point of that? It's different from EVE. If you are in a player corp in EVE, others can declare war on you, attack you and destroy your stuff. If you are in an NPC corp you are (more or less) safe and in exchange you pay the default tax. Creating your own corp is risk free in DUST and it'd always be profitable on the long run, if the NPC corp has >0 tax. There's no net loss then. The system we have now works okay, and we have no corporation taxes. If you want to create a one man corp, fine. But the ISK you save on taxes will be pennies compared to the ISK you would have made with a big corporation, taxes included.
The system we have right now IS NOT ok, it relies 100% on trust and peoples generosity. That's stupid. This game isn't called "rainbow bunny incorporated" This is a sister game to eve online which is in my opinion one of the most cut throat games ever made. Taxes need to be part of it, notifications on donations would be nice too, but more then anything taxes are the biggest deal. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
148
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:30:00 -
[149] - Quote
AS FAR AS OPTION 2 GOES: people who dont think its a big deal to link the two taxes, I will give you some food for thought, and try to convince you why linking the two taxes would be a terrible idea.
The economy in both games right now are VERY different. Its not unusual to see 50% taxes in eve corps if there in a war or whatever. WHY THEN should dust mercs also pay 50% of their total income when the corp wallets aren't even connected??? does that make sense at all? DUST 514 doesn't have very many ties to eve online right now, and this is included with money. It would be very difficult for Dust CEO's to justify a 50% tax on their end because some space pilots are having a war that is completely detached from the mercs.
The next big reason is CHOICE. People are usually much happier with the ability to choose what they want to do. If I want both sides of my corp to have the same tax then I can do that! if I want to have a 50% tax on eve and a 10% tax on dust then I should be able to do that! The excuse of "oh but it would just be easier to set it as one tax" is not only portraying a Lazy idea, but is a lazy statement to begin with. Worst case scenario a CEO would have to go on a computer to set the eve tax, and go on a ps3 to set the dust tax. But more likely then not, both options will probably be available on the PC atleast. |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
156
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 21:23:00 -
[150] - Quote
1. Yes.
2. Would prefer separate rates being a possibility, just for flexibility etc.
3. Don't care. |
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 21:30:00 -
[151] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) Yes; 50% |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
385
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 22:27:00 -
[152] - Quote
1. Yes. Reason: ASAP!!! It is about time corps start acting like actual Corporations in DUST.
2. No. Reason: I am a man who believes you can never have too many options. If a corp wants to set the same rate globally, let them, but there isn't anything wrong with having the option to set them independantly, especially right now whilst the two games have two completely separate wallets. (how can you justify taxes going to the EVE wallet from DUST, but not allowing that isk back into DUST?)
3. Yes. Reason: It's the same way in EVE. I believe DUST and EVE should have as many mechanics in common as possible.
I really hope you folks at CCP can get this (as well as EVE/Dust ISK transfers) out and working before too long. It's about time the two worlds begin sharing one big wallet. |
Aerion Spiritus
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 04:17:00 -
[153] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes for the NPC Corporation tax, BUT rather than the ISK just going into the void, put it into tournaments, merc battles, events etc. That way their isn't just a black hole in the economy but instead the money going back. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
441
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 05:37:00 -
[154] - Quote
1. Very much so yes. 2. Hmm, no. More options is always good, but its no big deal. 3. Probably a good idea. I would set it the same as EVE NPC corps. What are they again? Around 17-20% I think. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
55
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 08:30:00 -
[155] - Quote
Yes x3 |
dalt ud
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
88
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 08:32:00 -
[156] - Quote
1. yes 2. i dont know about EVE 3. yes |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 10:58:00 -
[157] - Quote
Issue : Donation tracking log and donation cap.
Suggestion : Receipts
As a % of match earnings regular players donate far more. I could give so much more than others but my donations may not be visible. I want to be able to see in game (ill be tracking in excel too) my donations vs the corps assistance to me. The is helpful to track if my corp, which is an organisation of mutual benefit is in-fact mutually beneficial or if the funds are being drained by leeches.
Receipts Basically a receipt for donations and withdrawals helps both me and my corp track funds and have evidence for crime/abuse/taking of urine etc. A simple email or a corp tally sheet.
Can we include donation tracking and perhaps set a CAP. So on top of 10% tax once a total (set by corp) is reach my donations stop until the next cycle. |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3130
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Issue : Donation tracking log and donation cap.
Suggestion : Receipts
As a % of match earnings regular players donate far more. I could give so much more than others but my donations may not be visible. I want to be able to see in game (ill be tracking in excel too) my donations vs the corps assistance to me. The is helpful to track if my corp, which is an organisation of mutual benefit is in-fact mutually beneficial or if the funds are being drained by leeches.
Receipts Basically a receipt for donations and withdrawals helps both me and my corp track funds and have evidence for crime/abuse/taking of urine etc. A simple email or a corp tally sheet.
Can we include donation tracking and perhaps set a CAP. So on top of 10% tax once a total (set by corp) is reach my donations stop until the next cycle.
We should be making a journal available for both corporations and players soon so you can see all your income and expenditures. |
|
KEQ Robwriter
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
1) Yes, it makes everyone responsible for the corp instead of the few who donate.
2) Yes
3) Yes. I'd say keep it in line with Eve. |
Villanor Aquarius
Cygnus Tactical Operations
85
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 14:36:00 -
[160] - Quote
1. Yes 2. No it should be independently set-able 3. Yes probably 15-20% similar to NPC corps in eve. |
|
Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 15:46:00 -
[161] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes, and let Eve Director guys see the Dust wallet and transaction history please (even if we can't manipulated it) 3. 15-20% |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
303
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 17:03:00 -
[162] - Quote
1 YES 2 NO - different is good as you can set it to same =) 3 yes - about 10%ish |
Banjo Hero
BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 18:15:00 -
[163] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote: "Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do" - Mark Twain
I don't feel like a mercenary if I am obliged to pay my corporation a portion of my earnings. That makes me feel like a worker, and suddenly, as Twain observes, I don't want to be in a corporation anymore.
If this system is implemented though, there's tax wherever I go, because we're automatically thrown into NPC corporations. The freedom is lost; and play becomes work.
Unless the rates are really low. Even then, though, I feel a tax detracts from that sense of being truly mercenary.
You could always start your own Corp and set your rate at 0%
I bet you'd get tons of people who would want to join you. You wouldn't necessarily have the dough to get any real estate, but maybe you would. I imagine the donation function would remain in place, and you might get work from other corps to earn some ISK.
Good luck one way or the other, buddy.
|
Banjo Hero
BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 18:32:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet?
Yes, please. Maybe not directors in general, unless there're plans to make the directors' powers something that the CEO can pick and choose for individual corporate officers. So, like, if I get made a director, the CEO ticks off "accept apps" and "kick dudes out" and "post/accept corp battle contracts" because I can be trusted with that stuff, but makes sure "set tax rate" and "pillage corporate wallet" are not selected, because I'm a profligate spendthrift and am wildly irresponsible, and so cannot be trusted with those...
CCP Nullarbor wrote:2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations?
I don't know the details of this, so, sure! Why not? Unless it's bad for me (or Dust in general, but mostly me) in which case, no! :D
CCP Nullarbor wrote:3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Yes, I think so. Somewhere between "too low" and "way too high." Maybe 15% or 20%. 10% sounds too low and 30% would probably qualify as "way too high." You could always change it if you don't like what you guys set it to.
|
Jariel Manton
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
210
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:52:00 -
[165] - Quote
1. Yes 2. No, ability to set different levels 3. No preference |
Vaux Karn
The Mercenary Collective
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 23:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
Okay...first off I know I am posting late on this and I know I don't post often on the forums, but I would like to voice my opinion on the tax issue.
1. Yes we need corp tax, and not just a flat percentage. We need flat taxes and scalar percentages as well. Flat taxes do have the ability to be abused, yes that is true, but so do all taxes. I get that people have reservations about this and to that I have one thing to say...welcome to New Eden. If corps abuse taxes, mercs leave said corp, simple. Scalar taxes are important as well, for example after x amount has been earned through tax, the tax rate lowers or raises to y percent, and so on. This creates tax brackets, which can be done in customized ways such as high earners paying a higher percentage or a flexible "dues" system in which the percentage is made up of incremental mile stones. Regardless, it creates a flexible tax system which can be utilized as a corporation sees fit. Again, if people do not like a corps tax, they can find one they do like and welcome to New Eden.
2. We need to be able to tax different groubs of the corp differently, provided we can set those groups ourselves. In other words, we need to be able to create custom roles and subdivisions of corporations that we can apply diffefent tax rates to. For example, if a corp believes their directors (or accountants or pilots or anyone) should pay a higher or lower tax rate that should be an option. Yet again, you choose your corp...welcome to New Eden.
3. Yes NPC corps need tax as well, just like EVE. A good number needs to be found but I would suggest 15-20% would be most productive. This is, as others have stated, to encourage people to join or start corps which further enriches the depth of the game. So I say it again, choose a corp and welcome to New Eden.
And though it was not mentioned in the original post (though many did bring it up) we also need full corp account logs that can be reviewed. These need to be accessible by the individual paying, the CEO, and any directors or custom roles cleared to access them (such as accountants). This can play a very important role in deciding promotions and all types of taxes.
Thank you for reading my thoughts on the matter, thank you CCP for this outlet to provide feedback on the matter. Yay bacon! And kitten welcome to New Eden, mother kitten! |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 23:34:00 -
[167] - Quote
Vaux Karn wrote:Okay...first off I know I am posting late on this and I know I don't post often on the forums, but I would like to voice my opinion on the tax issue.
1. Yes we need corp tax, and not just a flat percentage. We need flat taxes and scalar percentages as well. Flat taxes do have the ability to be abused, yes that is true, but so do all taxes. I get that people have reservations about this and to that I have one thing to say...welcome to New Eden. If corps abuse taxes, mercs leave said corp, simple. Scalar taxes are important as well, for example after x amount has been earned through tax, the tax rate lowers or raises to y percent, and so on. This creates tax brackets, which can be done in customized ways such as high earners paying a higher percentage or a flexible "dues" system in which the percentage is made up of incremental mile stones. Regardless, it creates a flexible tax system which can be utilized as a corporation sees fit. Again, if people do not like a corps tax, they can find one they do like and welcome to New Eden.
Thank you for reading my thoughts on the matter, thank you CCP for this outlet to provide feedback on the matter. Yay bacon! And kitten welcome to New Eden, mother kitten! So this is why you have one like |
Vaux Karn
The Mercenary Collective
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 01:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
No...the reason I have only one like is because I don't spend all my time trying to be prom queen on the forums and as such very rarely post, if you care to point out the specific issues you have with my suggestion, please do. I am more than willing to debate the issue. On the other hand, if you are basing your criticism on number of likes, I wish you luck in being voted prom queen, as it would obviously mean so much to you and your fragile self esteem. So again, please state your specific issues and debate me about those...I would love to thoroughly address the tax issue. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 01:11:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vaux Karn wrote:No...the reason I have only one like is because I don't spend all my time trying to be prom queen on the forums and as such very rarely post, if you care to point out the specific issues you have with my suggestion, please do. I am more than willing to debate the issue. On the other hand, if you are basing your criticism on number of likes, I wish you luck in being voted prom queen, as it would obviously mean so much to you and your fragile self esteem. So again, please state your specific issues and debate me about those...I would love to thoroughly address the tax issue. I only had a problem with your first post. There will be no fixed tax rates, nor will there ever be fixed tax rates. If your talking about fixed taxes on income, these could easily put you into negative profits, especially for new players, and especially for players first trying out expensive fits and vehicles. If your talking about a fixed taxed tax every day/week/year, this could easily drain the wallets of the hundreds if not thousands of players who need extended time off from the game. Simply going on vacation for a week could end up in empty coffers for the poor merc. And the excuse of "This is New Eden" is getting really old, as in the end, New Eden is whatever we players want it to be, and I know we don't want it to be an unfriendly environment for casual players. The reason I didn't give an answer was because I found your post simply to stupid for an answer, since it was a stupid idea and devs stated multiple times that taxes would be based off percentage and not a fixed rate. And you are obviously the one playing prom queen, as you resort to underhanded tactics such as insulting others' self esteem before being civil. |
Vaux Karn
The Mercenary Collective
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:32:00 -
[170] - Quote
On the contrary, fixed rates could easily be done if they are set up not to take money out of wallets and only apply a maximum percentage of income. Thus no single player will be taxed over x amount per y amount of time. I apologize for not explaining better. I fully agree that no money should be taken from player wallets and this should have been clarified in my post. It was a simple oversight on my part, but beyond that, this is New Eden and that means it follows the lore of a harsh and cut throat universe controlled by corporations. There is no easy mode, there is risk in everything. |
|
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
92
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 06:24:00 -
[171] - Quote
Vaux Karn wrote:On the contrary, fixed rates could easily be done if they are set up not to take money out of wallets and only apply a maximum percentage of income. Thus no single player will be taxed over x amount per y amount of time. I apologize for not explaining better. I fully agree that no money should be taken from player wallets and this should have been clarified in my post. It was a simple oversight on my part, but beyond that, this is New Eden and that means it follows the lore of a harsh and cut throat universe controlled by corporations. There is no easy mode, there is risk in everything. R(isk) in everything. Too true.
As long as the BPO suits that we all start with remain in place then nobody can ever go bankrupt, just sitting in a match nets you 100k+
Nobody should be taxed what they can't afford however, so a percentage of INCOME is the obvious solution and should be taken out of the earnings at the end of a match. Using a percentage means that no player will ever spend more than they earn. |
Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1242
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
Man, I can't I'm actually reading posts about having tax brakets.
Keep the code simple. Every time a merc gets paid you take whatever the tax rate is out of that payment and put it in the corp wallet.
If you want tax brackets you might as well set up a revenue division in your corp and have your corp members fill out income tax forms. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
254
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 14:51:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes. 2. Sure, just as long as the answer to 1 is yes. 3. Yes. Not sure, but yes. Maybe 5%,
|
Falitroke
Corporacion Lince
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 14:29:00 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes (10 % - 15 %)
CEO Corporacion Lince |
Commander Dizzle
Closed For Business
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:54:00 -
[175] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Vectar Locke wrote:Please include if you are a director of a corp or not when answering question 1. It doesnt matter if you are a CEO or not How does the corp expect to get funding? from donations? half wont donate, a small tax makes sure everyone puts in anyways Also it should be on the end of game screen also so you can see how much the corp takes from your earnings after every match
To piggyback on Takahiro's comments. Myself and a good handful of my corp members make an average of 200k ISK every Ambush. If I had a 5% Tax Rate for my corporation, and with at least 100 occurrences of 200k ISK after battle, (only 10k from the merc), my Corp Wallet would have an additional 1mil ISK. Funding for PC is going to be tuff for a lot of the smaller Corps. Tax implementation would be awesome. |
HAICD
Dogs of War Gaming DARKSTAR ARMY
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 16:30:00 -
[176] - Quote
Yes but only tax the profit you earn during a match if I earn 100,000 in a match but spent 90,000 on drop suits then only tax 10,000 also I would to see how much ISK I spent during the match |
Commander Dizzle
Closed For Business
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 00:17:00 -
[177] - Quote
HAICD wrote:Yes but only tax the profit you earn during a match if I earn 100,000 in a match but spent 90,000 on drop suits then only tax 10,000 also I would to see how much ISK I spent during the match
If you run with a primary dropsuit, you should beable to determine how much you lost in a battle. If I'm running an Ambush, I use either my "Enforcer" set up or my BPO Triage. (Triage to WP farm X-D) If you spend 90k after a battle, you are probably losing 90k during a battle.
At 5% Tax... You still have 5k in your wallet. |
NoxMort3m
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 07:43:00 -
[178] - Quote
yes we would love a corp tax, yes the same as eve would be fine, and no it shouldnt be in the npc corps, it would be frustrating to pay money to something you get no benefit from and have no choice about starting in |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2582
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 10:58:00 -
[179] - Quote
B Team wrote:Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: As I pointed out before, I'm sure many "real" Merc bands had their individual shares reduced by ridiculous amounts by greedy leadership and quite often. You might want to actually look at what happens rather than just being "sure". Most mercenary corporations these days give set wages + bonus, not take some sort of tithe from the group. Over history, not paying the mercenary corps you hired was a good way to find yourself having to fight them. Didn't happen often, and certainly not more than once by anybody. Right.
So the current system should be scrapped, we don't get paid per mission, and the Corp takes all the income, then dishes it out based on some "standard" for NPC Corps and a pre-arranged "contract" for player Corp members?
I think most people would prefer - because it's a GAME and not REAL LIFE - that we get immediate returns on our efforts. For that to work and still give the Corp a cut, taxes are the best option. |
Pilgrim Plymco
Better Hide R Die
16
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1) Yes 2) It should be a value the corporation leader can set, it should be adjustable at all times 3) No, you should allow the corps to control their tax structure themselves. |
|
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy
937
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 03:00:00 -
[181] - Quote
Any chance we'll be getting an update on this subject CCP Nullarbor?
Cheers, Cross |
Deathlord Diego
The Phoenix Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 13:54:00 -
[182] - Quote
I noticed that the corporation that Im in has changed their tax rate to 10%. I have a corporation on my other character and im wondering, how do you change the tax rate of your corporation?
BTW- G+ªti +¬g skrifa+¦ spurningarnar m+¡nar +í +¡slensku? +P.e.a.s. er einhver +¡slenskur sem svarar spurningum h+¬r? |
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 14:00:00 -
[183] - Quote
I tihnk a Tax for Corps. would be a good idea as long as the leaders of the corps don't over-do it & leave the tax on forever or put on a huge % for no reason. |
First Prophet
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 14:06:00 -
[184] - Quote
1. Yes. 2.Sure 3. No. People would just skill Corp management to 1 and start several 1 member corps just to avoid the tax. There's enough incentives to join a corp already. |
sansey Inferno
Inferno Inc
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 11:32:00 -
[185] - Quote
1) yes 2) yes 3) yes |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens Orion Empire
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:20:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1.Yes, with a limit, nothing above 15%. 2.N/A Don't play EVE. 3.Yes. 10%.
|
Naquiri
ExcelsiCorp Securities
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:49:00 -
[187] - Quote
I am not familiar with the EvE elements, so I cant really comment in that context, however:
people pay membership fees to be in clubs all the time.
DUST Corps are essentially Merc Clubs.
I was thinking there should be an initial buy-in, somewhere between 1-10 Million ISK. then after that, let the Corp leader set the Membership fee.
setting a fee in the NPC Corps would add to the dynamic; Player Corps could compete by having low membership fee, or remain exclusive, with a high membership fee. |
Ric Barlom
On The Brink CRONOS.
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:51:00 -
[188] - Quote
1. Yes - Leave it up to individual Corps to set any rate they want, without limitations 2. Yes 3. Yes - about 10% |
Deathlord Diego
THE NORTH WATCH
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:56:00 -
[189] - Quote
1. yes definitely 2. no it would overflow the dust market. 3.15% |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
110
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:58:00 -
[190] - Quote
1:yes 2:yes 3:yes |
|
SuperKing BigNuts
Contract Hunters
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 14:08:00 -
[191] - Quote
only made it to the end of page one, but the concept of corporation tax is very much necessary IMO. we are working for/running our very own vicious and cut-throat CORPORATIONS, who wont be able to support themselves if we rely on an honor system...
i feel that the taxes being able to be different between DUST and EVE would be unnecessary amount of effort required from developers, creating a new interface for it or adjusting the existing one, then splitting the codes between what comes from whos wallet and what it shall be labeled as once it reaches corp wallet...
having said that though, there are a few choice situations where i could see the tax rates being a point of conflict within a corporation between EVE and DUST, case and point, when you NEED to force your EVE pilots out to a deployment, to break them from their isk farming, you crank up the tax so they either pay the corp 60% of their income or go lose some ships with everyone else like theyre supposed to. and THIS could cause friction between DUST and EVE in the major nullsec corporations and alliances... but truly, the income differences between EVE and DUST, so long as these corporations have semi competent directors running the show, they should be able to support the DUST mercenaries with ISK infusions from the corp wallet as needed... but these DUST mercs should be fairly well situated before hand anyways.
as for NPC corp taxes, i feel that should be a given... theyre being run by invisible overlords who have big plans, how are they to support their agendas without income from their minions?
the only other alternative to corp taxes i can think of would be some sort of goofy corporation bonus ontop of the individual contract payout, would keep people from raging that their overlords are stealing their iskies if it was income they couldnt have anyways, but i dont like the idea of some complicated corporation bonus when we are forced to spam into pub matches with little to no real impact on anything. this is just stating there might be an alternative, but it would be considerably harder than the concept of taxes to design and or implement, and require a lot more balancing than letting the players hold the reigns. |
Drex Vizla
Planetary Response Organisation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 14:11:00 -
[192] - Quote
Put a limit (if you haven't all ready) to corp taxing, i don't want 50% gone because my leader is secretly a greed demon |
LittleCuteBunny
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 14:32:00 -
[193] - Quote
Yes .
A higher tax rate in NPC corps will put them in direct competition with the private corporations that will lower their taxes in order to attract more new players.
Maybe?
Corporations should be able to create tax brackets for different players since it cannot be expected that some players should be taxed the same in contrast with other players.
That will encourage subsidies from the corporations to support highly expensive players |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 14:38:00 -
[194] - Quote
Yes Yes
NO
the last one is NO - otherwise where is the sense in being a mercenary. you can lonewolf etc. have the freedom to do what you want. etc
or,all you will get is people making fake corps for themselves so they dpnt get taxed. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 14:41:00 -
[195] - Quote
i forgot the questions but my directors and i talked it over and we agreed on 10%. it shud be able to change tho, in the event we need to save for something. clones seem expensive i got the first batch but after that were all going to have to pitch in. we shud be able to implement this dustside tho. i had to make an eve toon there corp system is robust. ours lacks severely. |
Dezus 1000
Reaper Galactic
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 14:56:00 -
[196] - Quote
1. Yes 2. No 3. No |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 15:06:00 -
[197] - Quote
Drex Vizla wrote:Put a limit (if you haven't all ready) to corp taxing, i don't want 50% gone because my leader is secretly a greed demon
ur CEO is a greed demon. is it still CBJ. glad he stopped spamming everyone with that garbage |
From Costa Rica
Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS.
83
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 03:18:00 -
[198] - Quote
we needed this like... last week.. get on it CCP |
Kourgg Smith
Sovereign Guard
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 03:29:00 -
[199] - Quote
1. Yes 2. No, I actually want to make it so corporations can charge different tax rates on different things like mining, etc. 3. Yes, just like in eve. 10%, but slightly increase the rate that isk comes out to compensate so its at 0 |
Belendur Balfour
Silver Gryphons Inc
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 06:04:00 -
[200] - Quote
1. Yes, it is needed 2. Yes, there is no reason to have to make seperate tax % 3. Yes, same reason it is in EVE, and if it does create one man corps, well, that happens, and introduce wardecs on Mercs |
|
Absoliav
Suffer Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 07:51:00 -
[201] - Quote
1. Yes 2.Yes 3.Not too sure how that would work. |
Roy Xkillerz
Red Star. EoN.
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:15:00 -
[202] - Quote
1. yes
2. yes
3. maybe on 10% |
Arbor Viridanus
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:40:00 -
[203] - Quote
It should be exactly the same as in EVE.
- Yes.
- Assuming I understand this correctly, no. Directors should be able to set separate tax rates for Capsuleers and Mercenaries.
- Absolutely. The tax rates for Dust NPC corps should have similar rates to those in EVE.
Drex Vizla wrote:Put a limit (if you haven't all ready) to corp taxing, i don't want 50% gone because my leader is secretly a greed demon
If a Director sets the tax rate to 50% he'll end up losing a LOT of members. No Director in their right mind would set a tax rate that high.
That said, I still think they should be able to. Certain situations could call for such a large tax rate, and as long as the Director discusses it with the corp first and it's temporary, it would be a good way for a corp to raise a lot of ISK in a hurry.
It also has the benefit of killing off corps lead by greedy Directors, or causing a group of players to form their own corp and destroy their former corp, or all sorts of other political drama.
Kourgg Smith wrote:1. Yes 2. No, I actually want to make it so corporations can charge different tax rates on different things like mining, etc. 3. Yes, just like in eve. 10%, but slightly increase the rate that isk comes out to compensate so its at 0
That's an excellent idea. |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die
110
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:56:00 -
[204] - Quote
1) yes but a cap from least to greatest 1% to 30% 2) I`m not of EVE but I think that makes sense 3) no, its important to keep noobies with a good wallet as they learn the game, if they are interested in a clan then they can be taxed. If someone stays in a clan then his or her loss, but if NPC clans are in PC then yes, a small tax of 1%-10% would be necessary (105 being the most). |
Donnerwerk
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:16:00 -
[205] - Quote
we need taxes this way the corp can buy clones and we can fight some clans.
so +1 for taxes everywhere (Tax on income)
1) go for taxes (everything from 0 to 100%) If you're not happy with your corp tax, leave the corp :) 2) yes 3) yes 15% would be a nice number |
Jax Saurian
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:24:00 -
[206] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. Hmm yes so that way I won't forget to donate to my corp but should have a max at around 15% (or more) so it would be less for npc corp by a good sized chunk.
2. yes
3. yes and should dig a chunk out of their winnings so maybe 20% - 25% (more is acceptable but should be higher then the max tax for player corps) |
NerfMyGun
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:00:00 -
[207] - Quote
Yes but only tax profit and it would be nice to see how much ISK was lost in a match |
Sebrone Jamleau
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:59:00 -
[208] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Maybe |
Sebrone Jamleau
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:16:00 -
[209] - Quote
Jax Saurian wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers- 1. Hmm yes so that way I won't forget to donate to my corp but should have a max at around 15% (or more) so it would be less for npc corp by a good sized chunk. 2. yes 3. yes and should dig a chunk out of their winnings so maybe 20% - 25% (more is acceptable but should be higher then the max tax for player corps)
No. Communistic Corps would not work then. If you dont know what I mean: In EVE there are three types of Corps: Capitalistic, Communistic and something between them. Communistic corps have high taxes but they pay you everything you need and restock your destroyed ship as long as you bring enough money. But you really need people you can trust to distribute everything otherwise your corp wallet is on zero pretty fast. In a capitalistic corp you are more independent and there are nearly no taxes but you have to manage your wallet and assets. The corp itself is more like a coalition. members sell stuff to you cheaper, larger investments are done together and everyone gets its part of it then. |
Furrow33
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 03:29:00 -
[210] - Quote
That's crazy. Why should you have to pay a lot of taxes to an npc corp in an attempt to get people to join player made corps. Might as well create a one person corp and pay taxes to myself. I could understand if it was a low amount. Remember that mercs don't make as much as capsuleers. |
|
Vallud Eadesso
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 03:33:00 -
[211] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1: Yes 2: Yes 3: Yes
I used to run my own corp back in EVE and one of the things that used to ROYALLY get on my (Ample) breasts was players who couldn't get their head around WHY I needed to tax them at all. They treated the place like an extra chat channel sometimes or like any other MMO.
One important thing I think you need to do, CCP is explain in a VIDEO (People will skip text!) why the Corp Tax is an absolutely essential part of the game and why it's needed. I can see so many directors and CEOs getting INFURIATED at the console crowd for complaining about this. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
164
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:26:00 -
[212] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet?
Yes
CCP Nullarbor wrote:2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? No; I mean, it can be, but if the Dust side needs more ISK flow than the EVE side (or vice-versa) taxing the other more will be an issue
CCP Nullarbor wrote:3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? I say yes; I know in EVE its 11%, but I think 8% would be good in Dust (since you need ISK a lot more early in Dust just to get the essential skillbooks [given for free in EVE, not in Dust and are MUCH cheaper in EVE]. After the core skillbooks are bought than I feel it is about even in how both sides need a ton of ISK, but its that early part that really matters. We need some free books in Dust lol). There also needs to be a message stating the tax or something too if this is implemented. |
PADDEhatpigen
BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 07:35:00 -
[213] - Quote
1. YES. 2. YES. 3. NO. New players need there isk, and players that DONT want to be part of a player Corp should not pay tax.
Corp taxes would mostly be used to benefit its members in some way, its used for wars and payouts to players, and things like that.
Player Corps should be able to set taxes all the way from 0-100 %. Just like we can in eve. Also we need to be able to set acces or restrictions for players to the Corp wallet.
The lone wolfs and new players in NPC Corps should get to keep there hard erned isk. Its tuff to be out there all alone in New Eden. hehe |
Crucias Soulreaver
Gothic Wars Consortium
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 08:04:00 -
[214] - Quote
- Yes
- Allow us to set the tax on Mercs and Pilots seperately, those who wish equality can set it as such. Those who wish to tax Mercs higher (to offset free handouts) can also do so
- Yes - make it a value that is above average for corps. That way new people are encourage to move to Corps because they'll save some money
|
TODDSTER024
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 08:41:00 -
[215] - Quote
1- yes 2- i dont know how it works in EVE 3- no. If it starts, i will just make my own corp and not have to pay |
madd greazy
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
75
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 09:09:00 -
[216] - Quote
1. yes 2. yes 3. Same as mixed corp tax rate. |
Silas Swakhammer
GamersForChrist
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 02:32:00 -
[217] - Quote
1. Definitely yes. 2. Yes. 3. Yes, but provide some explanation to new players as to what is going on. |
Skilfer
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 02:56:00 -
[218] - Quote
- Yes
- Yes
- Sure, but will probably be fine if left as is.
|
KEQ Harbinger
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 03:20:00 -
[219] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers-
1. YES 2. Dust tax rate should be able to be set differently than eve corp tax rate. 3. Default 0%. |
NeckBone PooKiNuZz
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 03:46:00 -
[220] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Not yet- Most Ps3 owners just found out about Dust. Give them a chance to figure things out. Taxing Starter corps will turn away new players already overwhelmed with the Newness and complexity of Dust. Id like them to have a better chance to free themselves from a prison they dont know they're in.
I can hear it now "Wait... i have to buy all my suits? is SP like XP? On top of all that im getting taxed!? Time to play BLOPS" |
|
Mads Katter
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 05:46:00 -
[221] - Quote
- YES!!!!!
- Yes, especially since the two wallets (EVE/Dust) are separate and inaccessible by the other. If EVE side gets too greedy or doesn't care about the poor Dust Merc and raises the tax too high there will be plenty of corps out there ready to welcome in new members with a lower Tax. Business is business after all, some are just doomed to fail by stupid decisions.
- Yes. 15-25%......Or perhaps have a tax rate that increases the longer a player is in the NPC Corp. Start out at 0% for the First week. 5% the Second week and so on in 5% increments to a max of 30%
|
Pseudogenesis
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 06:06:00 -
[222] - Quote
I'm no economist so I'll leave the others alone, but I'll just pop in to say that the 3rd option would make the game even MORE of a hell for new players. |
Darkkis78
Rautaleijona Gentlemen's Agreement
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 08:25:00 -
[223] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes 10%-20% |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:49:00 -
[224] - Quote
So...when? We CEOs are still waiting for any info on this... you guys promised you would have a talk with ceos at fanfest, so far zilch... There is no way smaller corps have a way of getting more cash for pc at the moment... |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 11:45:00 -
[225] - Quote
Can anyone give some feedback on this? A gm or dev would be nice... With PC on full strenght getting the taxes working is a must. |
Repe Susi
Rautaleijona Gentlemen's Agreement
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 11:59:00 -
[226] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes
It seems the community is quite unanimous in this. Now DO IT. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:11:00 -
[227] - Quote
Repe Susi wrote:1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes
It seems the community is quite unanimous in this. Now DO IT.
indeed... we are still waiting :(, and its a fundamental resource in any corporation. |
first sgt cotman
RISE OF THE EMPIRE The Superpowers
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:52:00 -
[228] - Quote
Feedback please!!!!! |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
84
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:17:00 -
[229] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Perhaps (depending on LoE required and how ISK values with flunctuate between games) 3. Yes
With point 2 my only concern would be that EVE players will be generating far more ISK than Dust players and corp taxes might be set accordingly which may or may not impact Dust514 corp member negatively. |
Loki Keller
Corvus Conspiracy
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:23:00 -
[230] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No, 0%, player corps have enough advantages over npc corps, this aint needed. |
|
10mg PLUMBUM
Academy Inferno CRONOS.
271
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 09:32:00 -
[231] - Quote
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes 20%-25%
PS When it will finished? And when you will do it? |
Evil-Stuffed-Animal
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:28:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that.
1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be?
Cheers- 1. Yes 2. Don't Know 3. Yes, 15% |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
318
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:41:00 -
[233] - Quote
Aerion Spiritus wrote:1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes for the NPC Corporation tax, BUT rather than the ISK just going into the void, put it into tournaments, merc battles, events etc. That way their isn't just a black hole in the economy but instead the money going back.
I just noticed this and I think that this is an awesome idea. Maybe pool all of the tax income for each faction and use it for the payouts when fighting for that faction.
|
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:19:00 -
[234] - Quote
A limit of 2 million ISK a day per player.
% would accumulate too much of a price that members would hate. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
318
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:27:00 -
[235] - Quote
Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote:A limit of 2 million ISK a day per player.
% would accumulate too much of a price that members would hate.
If they're playing so much that they are getting taxed 2m ISK per day they are getting 8m+ ISK for themselves and if not, they need to find/make a different corp. |
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:32:00 -
[236] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote:A limit of 2 million ISK a day per player.
% would accumulate too much of a price that members would hate. If they're playing so much that they are getting taxed 2m ISK per day they are getting 8m+ ISK for themselves and if not, they need to find/make a different corp.
That is up to the CEO to decide if they would need to step to the maximum.
Note that I said Maxiumum, not minimum.
The people who are agreeing to 30% Tax most likely don't know they're agreeing to. For people who hold A lot of ISK, would be furious. In one day, a 30% tax would deduct 90M ISK from me alone. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
318
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:35:00 -
[237] - Quote
@Sponglyboy
How do you think that Corp Tax works?
In order for a 30% corp tax to take 90m from you in one day, you'd need to be playing constantly and getting ridiculous payouts. You'd need to be making 300m ISK per day from instant battles for you to lose 90m ISK in a day to Corp Tax. |
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:42:00 -
[238] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:@Sponglyboy
How do you think that Corp Tax works?
In order for a 30% corp tax to take 90m from you in one day, you'd need to be playing constantly and getting ridiculous payouts. You'd need to be making 300m ISK per day from instant battles for you to lose 90m ISK in a day to Corp Tax.
Maybe you haven't been playing Dust long enough so allow me to inform you.
Players who were here since Chromosome walked into Tranquility as Rich basterds. All the Useless salvage that was earned on the battle was all worth something. EVERYTHING was reimbursed. I woke up in my Merc Quarters with 300 Million ISK sitting out of my door with a note on it saying Live free.
This happened to pretty much everyone. I can't name anyone who didn't become rich off Chromosome. Now that that's cleared up.
I never said I make 300M ISK a day off Instant Battles a day. I have 300M ISK.
A Corp made up of member who came from Chromosome will make that corp extremely rich, and all the members in there that lost their ISK, extremely angry.
Very easy way for one person to walk away calling 50+ people dunces. |
Driftward
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
167
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:43:00 -
[239] - Quote
Any word on when a corp tax would be implemented? 1.2? or are we talking later patches? |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
318
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:47:00 -
[240] - Quote
@Sponglyboy
Are you under the impression that you'd be losing ISK from you personal wallet to the Corp Tax? If you are, you're mistaken, all Corp Tax Income will come straight off the top from your Instant Battle Payouts, you will only technically be losing out on ISK. Unless of course, CCP decides to drastically change how Corp Tax works (though I am operating under the impression that Dust Corp Tax will tax Instant Battles/FW Instant Battles in a similar fashion to how Eve Corp Tax taxes Mission payouts).
Also, I've been here over a year now, how long have you been here?
|
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Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:51:00 -
[241] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:@Sponglyboy
Are you under the impression that you'd be losing ISK from you personal wallet to the Corp Tax? If you are, you're mistaken, all Corp Tax Income will come straight off the top from your Instant Battle Payouts, you will only technically be losing out on ISK. Unless of course, CCP decides to drastically change how Corp Tax works (though I am operating under the impression that Dust Corp Tax will tax Instant Battles/FW Instant Battles in a similar fashion to how Eve Corp Tax taxes Mission payouts).
Also, I've been here over a year now, how long have you been here?
No offence was intended.
At the end of the day, I haven't played EVE a day in my life so I wouldn't have a clue of what style they would aim for.
I pictured the style I've dealt with in my years of Strategic Gaming.
In this case, 30% Max tax can be exceptionable. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
319
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:59:00 -
[242] - Quote
@Sponglyboy
No worries, I'd pitch a fit too if I lost X% of my personal wallet everyday. |
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 00:03:00 -
[243] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:@Sponglyboy
No worries, I'd pitch a fit too if I lost X% of my personal wallet everyday. Lol exactly |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
28
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 05:22:00 -
[244] - Quote
Corp taxes are a YES.
Same percentage as in EVE, YES please. (makes programming easier).
|
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers EoN.
171
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 06:22:00 -
[245] - Quote
1. yes 2. yes 3. no. they need every last bit of isk, and we need better tutorials to foster the comprehension of corporation necessity. |
DARK - IMPULSE
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 07:26:00 -
[246] - Quote
1. YES. IF..... + CCP raises the ISK earn in each match by 15%. + Corps can only raise taxes to a maximum of 15%. + It can be turn on or off at any time.
2. I don't play eve and I don't know how that works there.
3. YES, 30%. There are too many players in NPC's corps, but only when players are out Instant Battle Academy or after some SP amount. because most serious corps won't receive newbies, so the taxes should be zero for new players since they are learning and they need all the ISK they earn, but once you pass instant battle academy or you reach a certain SP amount ( let's say 3M) you will get 30% taxes of each battle. 30% tax rate will force you to find a corp because corps can only raise taxes by 15% max. |
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