DUST Search - Corporation Tax

A'Real Fury wrote:

Generally if you are being taxed then you receive services from the Government as a result of being a member or citizen. At the moment with the power solely in the hands of the directors they could set a tax on all members but the only ones that get to use the money are the elite members of the corp during battles be it PC, Instant or corp. All the rest of the members see is a corp taking your money and others having fun with it in their 'paid by you' proto suits.

I would rather see a profit sharing scheme so all members feel involved. It could work as follows:

The corp sets a base % that all members contribute and if the corp makes a profit from the sale of clones , and other stuff in the future, then that profit is shared among all members of the corp based on that percentage set. If you contribute more then you get a larger percentage of the profit. As part of it the corp would set up an additional fund that diverts a percentage of the profit into to help with future projects. So what you would have is a corp contribution of say 10% and the corp makes a profit and 80% goes to the members and 20% goes into the future defence fund. Of course this only works if a corp is profitable.

The way PC is set up then it would be insane for any Corp to field anything less than their elite players during all PC battles which means that the rest of the corp has no real involvement and never sees any benefit from the tax as it all goes to equipping the elite players.

For those corps that are not profitable then as an alternative they could provide useful services such as seminars on how the UI works, what skills to invest in and actual training events so that their members see some benefit from the money they are "taxed".

Otherwise all that you are describing is nothing more than a parasite I.e. the corp taxes you and you see no benefit as it is all going to the directors and elite members. For the majority of the player base what is the incentive to pay taxes and more importantly keep on paying taxes to a given corps.

Done right the idea of a tax, or whatever scheme is thought up, could create a sense of community as corps try to entice players to their corps because of what they provide to all of their members,not just the best players, but if done wrong you will see big move to NPC corps just so players can spite those who do benefit from the tax levied on them.

If you want to levy a tax then what will you provide in return?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 451	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:32:00 - [31] - Quote 1)yes 2)yes 3)yes, about eve's starter corp tax rate would be good.
Faerghail Verticorda Cult of the Dust Bunny Cave of Caerbannog 7	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:48:00 - [32] - Quote 1. Absolutely. 2. I'd say setting different taxes would be important, as i.e. a corp with lots of capsuleers and a handful of mercs might not want to set a high tax for both so just that the corp can participate in PC (especially when you can't use corp funds from the wallet(s) of the other game - or don't want to when you can). 3. For consistency 11%. Although at first maybe something lower until there are more corp features so that new players don't feel like they HAVE to join or found a corp right away just to pay lower/no taxes.
Brush Master HavoK Core 323	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:55:00 - [33] - Quote Yes to all. Brush CEO Havok Core [email protected]
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:55:00 - [34] - Quote 1. YES 2. YES 3. Not needed. i'm impartial.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation 102	Posted - 2013.04.06 15:58:00 - [35] - Quote 1. Yes
PT SD Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 221	Posted - 2013.04.06 16:00:00 - [36] - Quote 1. YES 2. YES 3. Not needed.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 186	Posted - 2013.04.06 16:12:00 - [37] - Quote 1. Maybe 2. PLEASE separate them. 3. Definitely tax starter corps!
Stephen Rao Verboten XXI 6	Posted - 2013.04.06 16:36:00 - [38] - Quote 1. Yes 2. N/A (EVE Noob, not sure of the implications) 3. Yes
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 108	Posted - 2013.04.06 16:41:00 - [39] - Quote If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation.
Saven Kai Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 4	Posted - 2013.04.06 16:41:00 - [40] - Quote 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. No.

Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1278	Posted - 2013.04.06 16:53:00 - [41] - Quote Yes.yes.yes Make it just like EVE. Maybe add a way to exclude some members. Or some types of income link to specific game mode. Fot instance not taxing PC individual earnings
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 452	Posted - 2013.04.06 17:05:00 - [42] - Quote slypie11 wrote: If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation. you can leave the corp... more on topic, yes to all.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 201	Posted - 2013.04.06 17:21:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1. Yes. 2. No. The vast majority of Dust players wouldn't have any sort of personal wealth if the tax was high in the same way that EVE players could because Dusters aren't making tens of millions of ISK (or more) in an hour. 3. No. There is already significant incentive to join a player corp--develop friendships, be more competitive, work together to be more effective, etc. If people want to stay in an NPC corp for whatever reason, I say let them. You'd just be making people angry for no reason if you started taxing them more than other players.
Vethosis Universal Allies Inc. 0	Posted - 2013.04.06 17:38:00 - [44] - Quote 1. If players choose to contribute tax, I would suggest the players that are willing to get taxed from corp to get some sort of reward each week/month. 2. I don't know how to answer that because I haven't played EVE. 3. No, some players won't know how to join corps at first and they might question why ISK is being deducted from their account, and may even get angry. Unless there is an advanced warning that this will happen. GÇó I suggest it should cost 100k to be accepted into a corp. GÇó The tax rule wouldn't be in affect to new players in a corp until 7 days after they're in.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N 32	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:04:00 - [45] - Quote Generally if you are being taxed then you receive services from the Government as a result of being a member or citizen. At the moment with the power solely in the hands of the directors they could set a tax on all members but the only ones that get to use the money are the elite members of the corp during battles be it PC, Instant or corp. All the rest of the members see is a corp taking your money and others having fun with it in their 'paid by you' proto suits. I would rather see a profit sharing scheme so all members feel involved. It could work as follows: The corp sets a base % that all members contribute and if the corp makes a profit from the sale of clones , and other stuff in the future, then that profit is shared among all members of the corp based on that percentage set. If you contribute more then you get a larger percentage of the profit. As part of it the corp would set up an additional fund that diverts a percentage of the profit into to help with future projects. So what you would have is a corp contribution of say 10% and the corp makes a profit and 80% goes to the members and 20% goes into the future defence fund. Of course this only works if a corp is profitable. The way PC is set up then it would be insane for any Corp to field anything less than their elite players during all PC battles which means that the rest of the corp has no real involvement and never sees any benefit from the tax as it all goes to equipping the elite players. For those corps that are not profitable then as an alternative they could provide useful services such as seminars on how the UI works, what skills to invest in and actual training events so that their members see some benefit from the money they are "taxed". Otherwise all that you are describing is nothing more than a parasite I.e. the corp taxes you and you see no benefit as it is all going to the directors and elite members. For the majority of the player base what is the incentive to pay taxes and more importantly keep on paying taxes to a given corps. Done right the idea of a tax, or whatever scheme is thought up, could create a sense of community as corps try to entice players to their corps because of what they provide to all of their members,not just the best players, but if done wrong you will see big move to NPC corps just so players can spite those who do benefit from the tax levied on them. If you want to levy a tax then what will you provide in return?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 251	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:08:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1) Yes, of course 2)Yes, except Eve itself should get more granular tax rates so that a Corp in eve could specify taxes based on type of activity rather than one flat rate. 3)Yes, of course. 11%, like Eve
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. CRONOS. 367	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:11:00 - [47] - Quote I'd have to agree with most of the people here, yes, yes and yes. Taxes are needed as the corp does not recieve much isk unless it's members donate, and alot of people don't understand how to do that, dispite how easy it is. To be honest, these corps are the same in EVE or Dust514, why should we have different systems for the same corps.
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 113	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:31:00 - [48] - Quote 1- Yes I been wanting this since closed beta, Just a way to help out the corp wallet. 2- Not sure how this runs. If anybody can explain real quick how eve tax is. 3- Nah because new players would come on forums asking why is there a tax to there income after a match, then everybody would troll their post etc etc.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 108	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:38:00 - [49] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: Generally if you are being taxed then you receive services from the Government as a result of being a member or citizen. At the moment with the power solely in the hands of the directors they could set a tax on all members but the only ones that get to use the money are the elite members of the corp during battles be it PC, Instant or corp. All the rest of the members see is a corp taking your money and others having fun with it in their 'paid by you' proto suits. I would rather see a profit sharing scheme so all members feel involved. It could work as follows: The corp sets a base % that all members contribute and if the corp makes a profit from the sale of clones , and other stuff in the future, then that profit is shared among all members of the corp based on that percentage set. If you contribute more then you get a larger percentage of the profit. As part of it the corp would set up an additional fund that diverts a percentage of the profit into to help with future projects. So what you would have is a corp contribution of say 10% and the corp makes a profit and 80% goes to the members and 20% goes into the future defence fund. Of course this only works if a corp is profitable. The way PC is set up then it would be insane for any Corp to field anything less than their elite players during all PC battles which means that the rest of the corp has no real involvement and never sees any benefit from the tax as it all goes to equipping the elite players. For those corps that are not profitable then as an alternative they could provide useful services such as seminars on how the UI works, what skills to invest in and actual training events so that their members see some benefit from the money they are "taxed". Otherwise all that you are describing is nothing more than a parasite I.e. the corp taxes you and you see no benefit as it is all going to the directors and elite members. For the majority of the player base what is the incentive to pay taxes and more importantly keep on paying taxes to a given corps. Done right the idea of a tax, or whatever scheme is thought up, could create a sense of community as corps try to entice players to their corps because of what they provide to all of their members,not just the best players, but if done wrong you will see big move to NPC corps just so players can spite those who do benefit from the tax levied on them. If you want to levy a tax then what will you provide in return? Finally, someone who stick up for the little man. I don't want to give money to fund endeavors I will never be a part of or be able to see the results of. If we got something in return, that would at least lessen the blow. In the future, maybe a percentage of the taxes could be used to by items to put in the corp vault, which could be used by corp members for free.
Skipper Jones ZionTCD Legacy Rising 27	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:48:00 - [50] - Quote slypie11 wrote: If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation. ^this made me laugh

slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 111	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:49:00 - [51] - Quote Skipper Jones wrote: slypie11 wrote: If we get taxes, I want the option to overthrow the CEO if taxes get high. Taxation without representation. ^this made me laugh REVOLUTION, MUTINY
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 69	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:53:00 - [52] - Quote 1. yes 2. yes 3. Yes about 10%
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 574	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:58:00 - [53] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: "Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do" - Mark Twain I don't feel like a mercenary if I am obliged to pay my corporation a portion of my earnings. That makes me feel like a worker, and suddenly, as Twain observes, I don't want to be in a corporation anymore. If this system is implemented though, there's tax wherever I go, because we're automatically thrown into NPC corporations. The freedom is lost; and play becomes work. Unless the rates are really low. Even then, though, I feel a tax detracts from that sense of being truly mercenary. Find a corp that has set the tax rate to 0%. Problem solved. Freedom intact. I say yes to all.
Madden The Merciless D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 95	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:00:00 - [54] - Quote 1. yes 2. yes 3. yes (10%) Corporations need corp taxes, without them we are severely weekend in planetary conquest and in corp replacement, several of the most important parts of corps. The need to ask for donations from members, or to support a corp through directors alone, is not reasonable, and because of this there is a need for taxes. And as in eve, I believe initial corporations should have a standard 10% tax, as that helps get everyone acquainted with the game, and its rules. And it gives corporations the ability to vary tax, to either off higher earnings, or potentially higher taxes, with large secondary benefits, like corp replacement.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 153	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:12:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- Thanks for this by the way. 1. Yes 2. No reason why it shouldn't be. 3. I'd say yes if only to encourage Mercs to find a player corp. I'd say between 10-15%
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 1038	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:15:00 - [56] - Quote CCP why not just put this to a vote in the same way that you did for the skill point system??
Sports Dude Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:20:00 - [57] - Quote 1. yes 2. yes 3. yes, maybe 10-12%?
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 153	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:28:00 - [58] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: CCP why not just put this to a vote in the same way that you did for the skill point system?? Judging by the pretty much unanimous responses so far in the first three pages at say a vote is moot at this point. Just a question of when. But I'd also add that corps need some way of giving back to their members as soon as is possible. Corp hangers are needed badly. I'd also like some sort of intra-corp auction house where members can offload salvage they don't need to other members for ISK. That way there is movement of ISK within the game, giving a further dynamic for players to enjoy, while keeping ISK within the game and a way of mercs getting the best equipment they need for PC.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 455	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:45:00 - [59] - Quote 1.yes 2.yes 3.yes 10-15% HOWEVER the money the NPC corps take in tax should be used for things!! I mean they should not be dragging money into the void, that money taken in tax should be used as part of the Event planing and merc contracts and such things, maybe npc tournys or they give some of that money to their best players in the npc corp. Something! it should not just sit idle it should be taken and used for that NPC corps goals and objectives even if that is just a lottery or something or special events! or for doing well in FW.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 719	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:45:00 - [60] - Quote 1. Yes. 2. Do not play this EVE, so wouldn't know... so no? Down with the capsuleers, we want our own damn kinds of taxes! 3. Absolutely no. Trying to start out and find your footing in the first few weeks is discouraging enough as it is so no need to punish starting players even more. There are already enough benefits to joining a corporation (the more welcoming corporations hand out ISK to new players anyway) that there are enough incentives in game to join player corporation as is. However, I would be in favor of a graduated tax for NPC corporations based on SP. So that players that stick around in NPC corporations do not have the 0 tax rate as an incentive to play lone wolf after a few weeks or months in the game. Also would not make leaving a player corporation just to get a tax break as much of an appealing option.



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