DUST Search - Corporation Tax

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

3.
NO

Its better for players to want to join a corporation because its a good group of mercs that they enjoy playing with. Players shouldn't be forced into joining corps just to escape a tax. Players need a positive about player corps to motivate them to join, not a "if you don't join one, your money will be stolen".

I would support if players have to option of not being in any corp at all. Players should have a choice on if they want to belong in something that drains their money, and currently there is no option to be a free agent (no NPC or player corp). No one asked to be part of their NPC corp.

This will confuse and anger players (and possibly reviewers), people will flood to the forum complaining that there is some bug that makes their ISK disappear because I'm certain you guys won't make it clear to them in the UI how it works (you didn't explain in the UI for when players hit the SP cap and people came to the forums complaining about the SP gains). Even if the UI did explain it, I doubt you're going to tell them "maybe if you join a player-corporation the tax might be lower".

Seriously consider the first point about rewards to members, and obligation of a corp to its members.

EDIT: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67811&find=unread I discuss ways to make the corporation/member relationship mutualistic, and incentivize corp membership.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
MORTADEL0 Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 61	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:45:00 - [61] - Quote 1. Yes, PLEASE 2. Yes 3. 11%, yes CEO GAC
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 76	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:19:00 - [62] - Quote 1.Yes 2. Make it optional, if the CEO wants us to share taxes yes, if they think there is a better choice they should be able to do it. 3. Only if it some how gets back to the players, they get the money back at the end of the month or something...
Kaeralli Sturmovos KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 120	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:23:00 - [63] - Quote id say, 1)yes 2)yes 3)yes (20%)
TODDSTER024 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 44	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:25:00 - [64] - Quote I'm not in a crop nor will I join one, so if they set up a tax it wouldn't bother me. It is understandable for a corp to have one, this way the corp actually has funds. If a tax is put on NPC corps then I will just make my own corp and keep all my money.
Void Echo A.I. 38	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:54:00 - [65] - Quote 1. yes, the best percentage would be 5%, you wouldn't really notice it but it would also give a big financial advantage to player corporations. 2. Not too sure on how that would effect anything. 3. yes, the percentage should be 10% so that they notice the actual amount being taken and have to look into how much would be taxed in different places.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3339	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:56:00 - [66] - Quote Corporations are more like states instead of actual corporations. Corporations don't pay their members for their work, but now it seems like the employees will have to pay the corporation. The corp will benefit from its members without being obligated to give anything back in return. If we are to have an obligation to our corp, our corp needs to have an obligation to us. 1. It is not right to force obligation on members to their cop without giving the corp some sort of obligation to its members in return. I really understand how a tax is necessary for funding planetary conquest, but regular corp members need something in return. What do regular members get out of planetary conquest anyway? 2. If you decide to add tax, then yes. 3. No, not unless we have to option of not being in any corp at all. Players should have a choice on if they want to belong in a corp that drains their money, and currently there is no option to be a free agent (no NPC or player corp). This will confuse and anger players (and possibly reviewers), people will flood to the forum complaining that there is some bug that makes their ISK disappear because I'm certain you guys won't make it clear to them in the UI how it works. It is a dumb motivator to join a player corp anyway since the player corp could actually have a higher tax than the NPC corps. No one asked to be part of an NPC corp, and players shouldn't have to join a player-corp just to not have their money stolen. Players need a positive about player corps to motivate them to join.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 14	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:57:00 - [67] - Quote 1 Yes 2 Yes 3 Yes
Sextus Hardcock Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 135	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:11:00 - [68] - Quote 1. Yes 2. No until the economies are at least joined and stable, then sure. 3. Doesn't matter. People will just start one man corps to dodge taxes, like eve.
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 431	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:40:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- Yes, yes, same as Eve. One caveat is to leave changing the tax rate on the Dust client to the CEO at most. You guys have way too many roles tied into the Director role on Dust, and this particular one isn't something that Directors really need to have access to doing.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 576	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:50:00 - [70] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: 1.yes 2.yes 3.yes 10-15% HOWEVER the money the NPC corps take in tax should be used for things!! I mean they should not be dragging money into the void, that money taken in tax should be used as part of the Event planing and merc contracts and such things, maybe npc tournys or they give some of that money to their best players in the npc corp. Something! it should not just sit idle it should be taken and used for that NPC corps goals and objectives even if that is just a lottery or something or special events! or for doing well in FW. I'd say the money should be used to award eve players for successful OBs in FW. That would bring more people out into the fight. More fighting in and out of orbit would be a great thing.

DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 367	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:05:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1. Yes. 2. No idea, don't play EVE. 3. I'm leaning towards no. The main persuasion of getting into a corp shouldn't be "Who has the lowest tax rate". But rather they join a corp because it has people they like and enjoy playing with.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1082	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:37:00 - [72] - Quote yes
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:03:00 - [73] - Quote 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No
Sleazy-E KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:11:00 - [74] - Quote 1.) hell yes 2.) separate or the same doesn't really matter. 3.) yes. Tax on NPC. Don't make incentive to not join a corp
Little Angus CowTek IT Infotech 2	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:19:00 - [75] - Quote 1. Yes 2. Yes. Same as EVE, or separate tax depending on limitations. 3. Yes. Same rate as EVE NPC corps. 11%
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 216	Posted - 2013.04.07 02:44:00 - [76] - Quote 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes I think NPC corps should have taxes because it encourages the "survival of the fittest" mentality DUST is going for. We are supposed to be mercs at heart. That means we're looking for the best balance between corp skill and corp costs. I don't agree with the argument that NPC corps steal from the little guy, because corps can easily do the same thing to the same little guy, but people seem to be on board with corp taxes. If you are looking for an indicator as to where your money is going (which I also don't think NPC corps need. If you don't like the situation, move to a corp who's mission and goals you support), then maybe we can add some sort of inter-NPC corp conflicts that new players could access instead of planetary conquest. It would have the same layout, but be it's own game mode (I.e. no effect on actual PC)
Soraya Xel Gentlemen's Foreign Legion Gentlemen's Agreement 39	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:00:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- YES to all. Tax for NPC corporations' tax rate should be the SAME as in EVE. We're supposed to be making this one game, right?
Abused Mind Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:15:00 - [78] - Quote 1) Yes 2) No 3) Yes
PIMP MAC DADDY 2100374163 A.I. 46	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:17:00 - [79] - Quote 1.Yes 2.Yes 3.Yes
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 35	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:16:00 - [80] - Quote TODDSTER024 wrote: NPC corps then I will just make my own corp and keep all my money. Just like Eve. Of course unlike Eve there isn't PvE to fund corporation warfare. Is the name Cayman Islands open?

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 1039	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:12:00 - [81] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 3. NO Its better for players to want to join a corporation because its a good group of mercs that they enjoy playing with. Players shouldn't be forced into joining corps just to escape a tax. Players need a positive about player corps to motivate them to join, not a "if you don't join one, your money will be stolen". I would support if players have to option of not being in any corp at all. Players should have a choice on if they want to belong in something that drains their money, and currently there is no option to be a free agent (no NPC or player corp). No one asked to be part of their NPC corp. This will confuse and anger players (and possibly reviewers), people will flood to the forum complaining that there is some bug that makes their ISK disappear because I'm certain you guys won't make it clear to them in the UI how it works (you didn't explain in the UI for when players hit the SP cap and people came to the forums complaining about the SP gains). Even if the UI did explain it, I doubt you're going to tell them "maybe if you join a player-corporation the tax might be lower". Seriously consider the first point about rewards to members, and obligation of a corp to its members. EDIT: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67811&find=unread I discuss ways to make the corporation/member relationship mutualistic, and incentivize corp membership. Forget trying to encourage players to join corps. NPC corps should be taxed as well because you don't want players who are not used to getting taxed...discouraged from joining corps because they will be taxed.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 1039	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:16:00 - [82] - Quote TODDSTER024 wrote: I'm not in a crop nor will I join one, so if they set up a tax it wouldn't bother me. It is understandable for a corp to have one, this way the corp actually has funds. If a tax is put on NPC corps then I will just make my own corp and keep all my money. Just curious though....why would you not want to join one or try building one of your own? What's the point in playing solo?
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 60	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:34:00 - [83] - Quote I support, its a feature (or tool) that is free to be used, or not.
Thrillhouse Van Houten DIOS EX. 57	Posted - 2013.04.07 06:08:00 - [84] - Quote I started a corp in Eve while I played solo with a 0% tax rate. No muss, no fuss. It costs the merest SP to gain the skills. It costs a million (?) ISK, which is not truly very difficult to gain (even less so in Eve). If you really don't want to contribute to a Corp...start your own or find one with a 0% tax rate. We are space mercenaries but even bands of mercenaries have something taken out of their "cut" by the band leader. Sometimes before they even see their cut, depending on the band leader in question. Often times the leaders keep that treasure trove all to themselves. At least in the structured environ of a Corporation, this pilferage is much less likely to happen. The fact is, even after Planetary Conquest enters the mix, many newer or smaller Corps won't even be participating in those things. Those Corps are likely to have low or non-existent tax rates and those are, generally, the Corps that newer players will be joining. I agree that information about Corporate tax rates needs to be available right at the outset and needs to be very clear. I think it makes perfect sense that NPC have tax rates. These Corps still need money (metagame) to provide the Starter fits and Starter vehicles that they provide the mercs in their Corps. Most new players spend nil on fits, so taxing their income hardly seems unfair. The only question, then, is why a player would pay 11% of, say, 200k ISK in income versus join a PC with a 0% tax rate and use militia fits? My solution would be to make Starter fits unusable after a player leaves a NPC. Drastic, sure, but makes perfect and utter sense. The 11% NPC tax rate with the penalty of losing Start fits after leaving encourages two things: 1) players to join Player Corporations and 2) players to make their own way with their own fits and their own money. A boost for the economy, too, since it guarantees that anyone out of a NPC is spending money to make money. I guess running out of money is possible (absurdly unlikely), but a new player in a PC should be able to lean on his Corp if he is in that dire of straights. If not, he can always ditch the Corp and rejoin a NPC (free fits, but back to the 11% tax rate). The caveat to my little idea is to make EVERY weapon, suit type and module available at Militia grade (though I feel a greater discrepancy needs to separate MLT and STD stuff). Currently, it is literally like "why use STD if I have the CPU/PG to use MLT?" In short: 1) Yes 2) Up to CEO 3) Yes, 11%
CODE Breaker93 Planetary Response Organisation 64	Posted - 2013.04.07 08:01:00 - [85] - Quote Yes Yes Yes
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N 33	Posted - 2013.04.07 08:33:00 - [86] - Quote 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No The reason that NPC Corps should not be taxed or at a very minimal level e.g. 1% is to give players choice. As I stated in my previous email the primary beneficiaries from the tax will be those who actually get to play in PC. By this I mean the specific members of the corp chosen to defend/attack other territories and not the other members of that corp who are also contributing isk. Currently the system looks like it would be biased towards the Corp and away from the members i.e. the directors are under no obligation to share the wealth or anything else. So leaving the NPC's as untaxed encourages the player corps to provide incentives as to why that specific player should move to that specific corp and if the promises are not kept then that player can vote with there feet and move to another player corp or back to the NPC. It should NOT be that players are 'encouraged' to leave the NPC's through punitive tax rates but for player based corps providing benefits to bring in new members. The obligation should not be placed on the player it should be placed on the player-corp. Do we really want to see a situation where new players join the game, or existing players, are forced to join player corps when it is currently very difficult to compare corps to find one you would like. In addition to the fact that new or low level players spend most of their time dying, will not get into PC unless they are extremely good at FPS, and spend their time watching the corp take their money and give it to other members. Not fun at all. And anything that reduces a person fun in playing a game is always risky for game developers. States that simply take your money and give nothing back generally find themselves in civil wars at some point. An option not available in Dust. So I re-iterate give players a place to go where they do not pay taxes, other than creating alt toons for 1 man corps, and place the emphasis on the player corps to provide services that new and existing players want so that these corps are able to recruit and keep members. There are a number of corps that already do this and I believe these should be the templates for future and current corps if you want to tax players.
Galrick M'kron Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 36	Posted - 2013.04.07 09:17:00 - [87] - Quote 1.I'm in favor of having a corp tax, but it shouldn't be possible to set it higher than 20%. Also, it should be displayed prominently in a corp description. 2.I have no clue about the taxing system in EVE. 3.Absolutely yes. It should be around 30%. That would encourage players to join player corps, which will have lower taxes.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 218	Posted - 2013.04.07 10:35:00 - [88] - Quote Yes Yes Yes (11% - 15%)
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 123	Posted - 2013.04.07 11:23:00 - [89] - Quote 1 yes 2 yes 3 yes - 15%
XINERA XIOS ZionTCD Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.04.07 11:55:00 - [90] - Quote 1.) Yes, would be a big help for planetary conquest and all money based corp interactions. 2.) No the Ceo should have the possiblity to deside. 3.) Yes, How about 15 to 20 % (In real life we nearly everyweher have more then 20%)



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