DUST Search - Corporation Tax

Vaux Karn wrote:

Okay...first off I know I am posting late on this and I know I don't post often on the forums, but I would like to voice my opinion on the tax issue.

1. Yes we need corp tax, and not just a flat percentage. We need flat taxes and scalar percentages as well. Flat taxes do have the ability to be abused, yes that is true, but so do all taxes. I get that people have reservations about this and to that I have one thing to say...welcome to New Eden. If corps abuse taxes, mercs leave said corp, simple. Scalar taxes are important as well, for example after x amount has been earned through tax, the tax rate lowers or raises to y percent, and so on. This creates tax brackets, which can be done in customized ways such as high earners paying a higher percentage or a flexible "dues" system in which the percentage is made up of incremental mile stones. Regardless, it creates a flexible tax system which can be utilized as a corporation sees fit. Again, if people do not like a corps tax, they can find one they do like and welcome to New Eden.

Thank you for reading my thoughts on the matter, thank you CCP for this outlet to provide feedback on the matter. Yay bacon! And kitten welcome to New Eden, mother kitten!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 69	Posted - 2013.04.14 21:30:00 - [151] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) Yes; 50%
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 385	Posted - 2013.04.14 22:27:00 - [152] - Quote 1. Yes. Reason: ASAP!!! It is about time corps start acting like actual Corporations in DUST. 2. No. Reason: I am a man who believes you can never have too many options. If a corp wants to set the same rate globally, let them, but there isn't anything wrong with having the option to set them independantly, especially right now whilst the two games have two completely separate wallets. (how can you justify taxes going to the EVE wallet from DUST, but not allowing that isk back into DUST?) 3. Yes. Reason: It's the same way in EVE. I believe DUST and EVE should have as many mechanics in common as possible. I really hope you folks at CCP can get this (as well as EVE/Dust ISK transfers) out and working before too long. It's about time the two worlds begin sharing one big wallet.
Aerion Spiritus The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.04.16 04:17:00 - [153] - Quote 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes for the NPC Corporation tax, BUT rather than the ISK just going into the void, put it into tournaments, merc battles, events etc. That way their isn't just a black hole in the economy but instead the money going back.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2013.04.16 05:37:00 - [154] - Quote 1. Very much so yes. 2. Hmm, no. More options is always good, but its no big deal. 3. Probably a good idea. I would set it the same as EVE NPC corps. What are they again? Around 17-20% I think.
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 55	Posted - 2013.04.16 08:30:00 - [155] - Quote Yes x3
dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 88	Posted - 2013.04.16 08:32:00 - [156] - Quote 1. yes 2. i dont know about EVE 3. yes
Judge Rhadamanthus Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 64	Posted - 2013.04.16 10:58:00 - [157] - Quote Issue : Donation tracking log and donation cap. Suggestion : Receipts As a % of match earnings regular players donate far more. I could give so much more than others but my donations may not be visible. I want to be able to see in game (ill be tracking in excel too) my donations vs the corps assistance to me. The is helpful to track if my corp, which is an organisation of mutual benefit is in-fact mutually beneficial or if the funds are being drained by leeches. Receipts Basically a receipt for donations and withdrawals helps both me and my corp track funds and have evidence for crime/abuse/taking of urine etc. A simple email or a corp tally sheet. Can we include donation tracking and perhaps set a CAP. So on top of 10% tax once a total (set by corp) is reach my donations stop until the next cycle.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3130	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:06:00 - [158] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Issue : Donation tracking log and donation cap. Suggestion : Receipts As a % of match earnings regular players donate far more. I could give so much more than others but my donations may not be visible. I want to be able to see in game (ill be tracking in excel too) my donations vs the corps assistance to me. The is helpful to track if my corp, which is an organisation of mutual benefit is in-fact mutually beneficial or if the funds are being drained by leeches. Receipts Basically a receipt for donations and withdrawals helps both me and my corp track funds and have evidence for crime/abuse/taking of urine etc. A simple email or a corp tally sheet. Can we include donation tracking and perhaps set a CAP. So on top of 10% tax once a total (set by corp) is reach my donations stop until the next cycle. We should be making a journal available for both corporations and players soon so you can see all your income and expenditures.

KEQ Robwriter KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.04.16 13:37:00 - [159] - Quote 1) Yes, it makes everyone responsible for the corp instead of the few who donate. 2) Yes 3) Yes. I'd say keep it in line with Eve.
Villanor Aquarius Cygnus Tactical Operations 85	Posted - 2013.04.16 14:36:00 - [160] - Quote 1. Yes 2. No it should be independently set-able 3. Yes probably 15-20% similar to NPC corps in eve.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1239	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:46:00 - [161] - Quote 1. Yes 2. Yes, and let Eve Director guys see the Dust wallet and transaction history please (even if we can't manipulated it) 3. 15-20%
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 303	Posted - 2013.04.16 17:03:00 - [162] - Quote 1 YES 2 NO - different is good as you can set it to same =) 3 yes - about 10%ish
Banjo Hero BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 94	Posted - 2013.04.16 18:15:00 - [163] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: "Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do" - Mark Twain I don't feel like a mercenary if I am obliged to pay my corporation a portion of my earnings. That makes me feel like a worker, and suddenly, as Twain observes, I don't want to be in a corporation anymore. If this system is implemented though, there's tax wherever I go, because we're automatically thrown into NPC corporations. The freedom is lost; and play becomes work. Unless the rates are really low. Even then, though, I feel a tax detracts from that sense of being truly mercenary. You could always start your own Corp and set your rate at 0% I bet you'd get tons of people who would want to join you. You wouldn't necessarily have the dough to get any real estate, but maybe you would. I imagine the donation function would remain in place, and you might get work from other corps to earn some ISK. Good luck one way or the other, buddy.
Banjo Hero BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 94	Posted - 2013.04.16 18:32:00 - [164] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? Yes, please. Maybe not directors in general, unless there're plans to make the directors' powers something that the CEO can pick and choose for individual corporate officers. So, like, if I get made a director, the CEO ticks off "accept apps" and "kick dudes out" and "post/accept corp battle contracts" because I can be trusted with that stuff, but makes sure "set tax rate" and "pillage corporate wallet" are not selected, because I'm a profligate spendthrift and am wildly irresponsible, and so cannot be trusted with those... CCP Nullarbor wrote: 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? I don't know the details of this, so, sure! Why not? Unless it's bad for me (or Dust in general, but mostly me) in which case, no! :D CCP Nullarbor wrote: 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Yes, I think so. Somewhere between "too low" and "way too high." Maybe 15% or 20%. 10% sounds too low and 30% would probably qualify as "way too high." You could always change it if you don't like what you guys set it to.
Jariel Manton SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 210	Posted - 2013.04.16 19:52:00 - [165] - Quote 1. Yes 2. No, ability to set different levels 3. No preference
Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 1	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:24:00 - [166] - Quote Okay...first off I know I am posting late on this and I know I don't post often on the forums, but I would like to voice my opinion on the tax issue. 1. Yes we need corp tax, and not just a flat percentage. We need flat taxes and scalar percentages as well. Flat taxes do have the ability to be abused, yes that is true, but so do all taxes. I get that people have reservations about this and to that I have one thing to say...welcome to New Eden. If corps abuse taxes, mercs leave said corp, simple. Scalar taxes are important as well, for example after x amount has been earned through tax, the tax rate lowers or raises to y percent, and so on. This creates tax brackets, which can be done in customized ways such as high earners paying a higher percentage or a flexible "dues" system in which the percentage is made up of incremental mile stones. Regardless, it creates a flexible tax system which can be utilized as a corporation sees fit. Again, if people do not like a corps tax, they can find one they do like and welcome to New Eden. 2. We need to be able to tax different groubs of the corp differently, provided we can set those groups ourselves. In other words, we need to be able to create custom roles and subdivisions of corporations that we can apply diffefent tax rates to. For example, if a corp believes their directors (or accountants or pilots or anyone) should pay a higher or lower tax rate that should be an option. Yet again, you choose your corp...welcome to New Eden. 3. Yes NPC corps need tax as well, just like EVE. A good number needs to be found but I would suggest 15-20% would be most productive. This is, as others have stated, to encourage people to join or start corps which further enriches the depth of the game. So I say it again, choose a corp and welcome to New Eden. And though it was not mentioned in the original post (though many did bring it up) we also need full corp account logs that can be reviewed. These need to be accessible by the individual paying, the CEO, and any directors or custom roles cleared to access them (such as accountants). This can play a very important role in deciding promotions and all types of taxes. Thank you for reading my thoughts on the matter, thank you CCP for this outlet to provide feedback on the matter. Yay bacon! And kitten welcome to New Eden, mother kitten!
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 157	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:34:00 - [167] - Quote Vaux Karn wrote: Okay...first off I know I am posting late on this and I know I don't post often on the forums, but I would like to voice my opinion on the tax issue. 1. Yes we need corp tax, and not just a flat percentage. We need flat taxes and scalar percentages as well. Flat taxes do have the ability to be abused, yes that is true, but so do all taxes. I get that people have reservations about this and to that I have one thing to say...welcome to New Eden. If corps abuse taxes, mercs leave said corp, simple. Scalar taxes are important as well, for example after x amount has been earned through tax, the tax rate lowers or raises to y percent, and so on. This creates tax brackets, which can be done in customized ways such as high earners paying a higher percentage or a flexible "dues" system in which the percentage is made up of incremental mile stones. Regardless, it creates a flexible tax system which can be utilized as a corporation sees fit. Again, if people do not like a corps tax, they can find one they do like and welcome to New Eden. Thank you for reading my thoughts on the matter, thank you CCP for this outlet to provide feedback on the matter. Yay bacon! And kitten welcome to New Eden, mother kitten! So this is why you have one like
Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 1	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:00:00 - [168] - Quote No...the reason I have only one like is because I don't spend all my time trying to be prom queen on the forums and as such very rarely post, if you care to point out the specific issues you have with my suggestion, please do. I am more than willing to debate the issue. On the other hand, if you are basing your criticism on number of likes, I wish you luck in being voted prom queen, as it would obviously mean so much to you and your fragile self esteem. So again, please state your specific issues and debate me about those...I would love to thoroughly address the tax issue.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 157	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:11:00 - [169] - Quote Vaux Karn wrote: No...the reason I have only one like is because I don't spend all my time trying to be prom queen on the forums and as such very rarely post, if you care to point out the specific issues you have with my suggestion, please do. I am more than willing to debate the issue. On the other hand, if you are basing your criticism on number of likes, I wish you luck in being voted prom queen, as it would obviously mean so much to you and your fragile self esteem. So again, please state your specific issues and debate me about those...I would love to thoroughly address the tax issue. I only had a problem with your first post. There will be no fixed tax rates, nor will there ever be fixed tax rates. If your talking about fixed taxes on income, these could easily put you into negative profits, especially for new players, and especially for players first trying out expensive fits and vehicles. If your talking about a fixed taxed tax every day/week/year, this could easily drain the wallets of the hundreds if not thousands of players who need extended time off from the game. Simply going on vacation for a week could end up in empty coffers for the poor merc. And the excuse of "This is New Eden" is getting really old, as in the end, New Eden is whatever we players want it to be, and I know we don't want it to be an unfriendly environment for casual players. The reason I didn't give an answer was because I found your post simply to stupid for an answer, since it was a stupid idea and devs stated multiple times that taxes would be based off percentage and not a fixed rate. And you are obviously the one playing prom queen, as you resort to underhanded tactics such as insulting others' self esteem before being civil.
Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 1	Posted - 2013.04.17 05:32:00 - [170] - Quote On the contrary, fixed rates could easily be done if they are set up not to take money out of wallets and only apply a maximum percentage of income. Thus no single player will be taxed over x amount per y amount of time. I apologize for not explaining better. I fully agree that no money should be taken from player wallets and this should have been clarified in my post. It was a simple oversight on my part, but beyond that, this is New Eden and that means it follows the lore of a harsh and cut throat universe controlled by corporations. There is no easy mode, there is risk in everything.

RINON114 B.S.A.A. 92	Posted - 2013.04.18 06:24:00 - [171] - Quote Vaux Karn wrote: On the contrary, fixed rates could easily be done if they are set up not to take money out of wallets and only apply a maximum percentage of income. Thus no single player will be taxed over x amount per y amount of time. I apologize for not explaining better. I fully agree that no money should be taken from player wallets and this should have been clarified in my post. It was a simple oversight on my part, but beyond that, this is New Eden and that means it follows the lore of a harsh and cut throat universe controlled by corporations. There is no easy mode, there is risk in everything. R(isk) in everything. Too true. As long as the BPO suits that we all start with remain in place then nobody can ever go bankrupt, just sitting in a match nets you 100k+ Nobody should be taxed what they can't afford however, so a percentage of INCOME is the obvious solution and should be taken out of the earnings at the end of a match. Using a percentage means that no player will ever spend more than they earn.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1242	Posted - 2013.04.18 13:26:00 - [172] - Quote Man, I can't I'm actually reading posts about having tax brakets. Keep the code simple. Every time a merc gets paid you take whatever the tax rate is out of that payment and put it in the corp wallet. If you want tax brackets you might as well set up a revenue division in your corp and have your corp members fill out income tax forms.
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 254	Posted - 2013.04.18 14:51:00 - [173] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1. Yes. 2. Sure, just as long as the answer to 1 is yes. 3. Yes. Not sure, but yes. Maybe 5%,
Falitroke Corporacion Lince 0	Posted - 2013.04.22 14:29:00 - [174] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes (10 % - 15 %) CEO Corporacion Lince
Commander Dizzle Closed For Business 0	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:54:00 - [175] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Vectar Locke wrote: Please include if you are a director of a corp or not when answering question 1. It doesnt matter if you are a CEO or not How does the corp expect to get funding? from donations? half wont donate, a small tax makes sure everyone puts in anyways Also it should be on the end of game screen also so you can see how much the corp takes from your earnings after every match To piggyback on Takahiro's comments. Myself and a good handful of my corp members make an average of 200k ISK every Ambush. If I had a 5% Tax Rate for my corporation, and with at least 100 occurrences of 200k ISK after battle, (only 10k from the merc), my Corp Wallet would have an additional 1mil ISK. Funding for PC is going to be tuff for a lot of the smaller Corps. Tax implementation would be awesome.
HAICD Dogs of War Gaming DARKSTAR ARMY 3	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:30:00 - [176] - Quote Yes but only tax the profit you earn during a match if I earn 100,000 in a match but spent 90,000 on drop suits then only tax 10,000 also I would to see how much ISK I spent during the match
Commander Dizzle Closed For Business 0	Posted - 2013.04.23 00:17:00 - [177] - Quote HAICD wrote: Yes but only tax the profit you earn during a match if I earn 100,000 in a match but spent 90,000 on drop suits then only tax 10,000 also I would to see how much ISK I spent during the match If you run with a primary dropsuit, you should beable to determine how much you lost in a battle. If I'm running an Ambush, I use either my "Enforcer" set up or my BPO Triage. (Triage to WP farm X-D) If you spend 90k after a battle, you are probably losing 90k during a battle. At 5% Tax... You still have 5k in your wallet.
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 0	Posted - 2013.04.23 07:43:00 - [178] - Quote yes we would love a corp tax, yes the same as eve would be fine, and no it shouldnt be in the npc corps, it would be frustrating to pay money to something you get no benefit from and have no choice about starting in
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2582	Posted - 2013.04.23 10:58:00 - [179] - Quote B Team wrote: Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: As I pointed out before, I'm sure many "real" Merc bands had their individual shares reduced by ridiculous amounts by greedy leadership and quite often. You might want to actually look at what happens rather than just being "sure". Most mercenary corporations these days give set wages + bonus, not take some sort of tithe from the group. Over history, not paying the mercenary corps you hired was a good way to find yourself having to fight them. Didn't happen often, and certainly not more than once by anybody. Right. So the current system should be scrapped, we don't get paid per mission, and the Corp takes all the income, then dishes it out based on some "standard" for NPC Corps and a pre-arranged "contract" for player Corp members? I think most people would prefer - because it's a GAME and not REAL LIFE - that we get immediate returns on our efforts. For that to work and still give the Corp a cut, taxes are the best option.
Pilgrim Plymco Better Hide R Die 16	Posted - 2013.04.24 16:24:00 - [180] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: There has been a bit of discussion about corporation taxes after our dev blog update to Planetary Conquest so I wanted to start a thread specifically on that. 1. Are you in favour of having a corporation tax system, allowing directors to specify a % percentage of all income earned by mercenaries to be taxed and delivered to the corporation wallet? 2. Should this be the same tax value that is used in EVE for mixed corporations? 3. Should we set tax on NPC corporations as well to encourage players to find player corporations that may have a cheaper tax rate? What would the default tax rate be? Cheers- 1) Yes 2) It should be a value the corporation leader can set, it should be adjustable at all times 3) No, you should allow the corps to control their tax structure themselves.



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