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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
902
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Posted - 2014.05.07 19:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all this is not another thread hating CCPs recent choices, I support Legion and check the link in my signature it'll take you to a thread where you can post if you support or don't support Legion. And the OP will put your choice up on the beginning of that thread.
So Plenty of people have said that going PC first off would've been a better move when CCP decided to work on Dust 514. I agree also, they would be so far ahead of where they are right now with Dust and even with where it looked like Legion's at. Going with the ps3 was an odd choice for those who understand hardware, with nearly no limit when it comes to hardware with the PC because of hardware available for to be put into a PC getting better and better every year.
But when I saw the # 233 post on this thread I mentioned already ( [Official] Legion support / anti-support thread ) I started to look at the games that are available for the ps3. Thnx to Baal Omniscient https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2137080#post2137080 I decided to learn a bit more about MAG I've heard plenty about it from MAG vets in Dust but I've never actually looked into the game. MAG was able to have 256 players ( 128 vs 128 ) in a single match which is amazing and actually makes the capabilities of the ps3 look so much better than the impression we've gotten with Dust 514.
GTA online/GTA whatever number it is, an open world third person shooter where you can do so many things. I don't even need to explain it.
If the developers of MAG could put 256 players in one battle in their game on the ps3 then why couldn't CCP do something similar? If Rockstar games could make an open world like the other GTA games but online instead then what was stopping CCP from making Dust an open world game?
Ok maybe they wouldn't even be able to do such things with the ps3 in time for fanfest but why not PVE? Remember the introduction vid for the chromosme build where we saw drones, and they even showed what would be spawning them at fanfest 2013.
I'm no expert on the hardware though so...... thoughts?
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Games Haven
DUST University
Ivy League
155
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Posted - 2014.05.07 19:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pretty f**king far, have you seen all console ports in 2013? They all have one thing in common, they take up more memory than Dust, and have more content.
EVE Legion?
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
369
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 19:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
In terms of generic lobby shooter? Probably more.
In terms of what I think I see as the initial Developer's vision of Dust (through archived devblogs), probably not much. It comes down to how easy it would be to network between the client and tranquility. The lag during the fitting screen, and the lag between OB (Eve side) and OB (Dust side) has been at times quite a wait. Player to Player markets would have had a similar problem, and probably led to more "Fatal Error" issues as well.
Delivering the Sandbox experience instead of matches and lobbies would probably be too much for the PS3 to handle (especially if you want the option of larger-scaled engagements and not a few players per instance).
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2784
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Posted - 2014.05.07 19:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it.
However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
268
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. |
Harold Junk
SATAN'S SECRET SOLDIERS
38
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I guess all the smart people at CCP thought they could pull off the whole kit n' kaboodle, or else why did they bother in the first place?
I guess the answer to the OP is "no". Sure maybe it was "possible" to advance the game, but with a business the question has to be "if we do this will we earn enough money back to justify the investment?".
Unfortunately when the answer to that question became "no", the next question they asked was: "ok, then how can we trick these stupid console players into giving us more money?" |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
322
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
You can't blame everything on the platform.
Obviously even CCP thought they could create their "vision" on the PS3 at one point, otherwise they never would have started there in the first place. |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
905
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 20:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect. |
Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
123
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
The ps3 has FF14 and DCUO and the xbox have ff11 so it seems to me that making mmos in a traditional sense is possible . All those games are obliviously open world with some instances . Some FPS games on consoles have way more content in terms of unqiue weapons, vehicles,maps, etc then Dust , but not in items . Although DCUO , FF14, and FF11 already has a lot of items too.
How I see it seems it was very difficult for CCP to transform a multiplayer game from a lobby shooter to an dedicated open world sandbox game . To me I always thought that would be unrealistic , something like that would be pretty difficult to do and considering that no game that was still being supported , in history that I know of, never had transformations of that scale especially a developer that never worked on a console game before.
I thought it would be better to make it a transitional based game or have an hub/overworld like ME, NVN , Vinductus, or Bladur's Gate . |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
373
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 20:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know.
No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against.
CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
903
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it.
However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go.
Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2797
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far.
How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further.
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The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2530
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
da GAND wrote:First of all this is not another thread hating CCPs recent choices, I support Legion and check the link in my signature it'll take you to a thread where you can post if you support or don't support Legion. And the OP will put your choice up on the beginning of that thread. So Plenty of people have said that going PC first off would've been a better move when CCP decided to work on Dust 514. I agree also, they would be so far ahead of where they are right now with Dust and even with where it looked like Legion's at. Going with the ps3 was an odd choice for those who understand hardware, with nearly no limit when it comes to hardware with the PC because of hardware available for to be put into a PC getting better and better every year. But when I saw the # 233 post on this thread I mentioned already ( [Official] Legion support / anti-support thread ) I started to look at the games that are available for the ps3. Thnx to Baal Omniscient https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2137080#post2137080 I decided to learn a bit more about MAG I've heard plenty about it from MAG vets in Dust but I've never actually looked into the game. MAG was able to have 256 players ( 128 vs 128 ) in a single match which is amazing and actually makes the capabilities of the ps3 look so much better than the impression we've gotten with Dust 514. GTA online/GTA whatever number it is, an open world third person shooter where you can do so many things. I don't even need to explain it. If the developers of MAG could put 256 players in one battle in their game on the ps3 then why couldn't CCP do something similar? If Rockstar games could make an open world like the other GTA games but online instead then what was stopping CCP from making Dust an open world game? Ok maybe they wouldn't even be able to do such things with the ps3 in time for fanfest but why not PVE? Remember the introduction vid for the chromosme build where we saw drones, and they even showed what would be spawning them at fanfest 2013. I'm no expert on the hardware though so...... thoughts?
They could have gone farther. The biggest problem they have with the PS3 is the complexity of the cell processor. It takes a couple of years to get good at. They could have done more but I think that between the cell and SONY's control of how fixes and patches are released is what really did the game in. Code optimization would have gone a long way but I think that limited staff and later a smaller staff because of Legion really hurt. Moving to an X86 makes development faster, easier and more straight forward.
Yes, the hardware is old and limited RAM does hurt it but lots of things could be done and I think that in the long run that Legion is the best path forward but they effectively killed the game and I am seriously worried that Legion will suffer because of this debacle. CCP didn't do itself any favors by announcing like they did and/or the level of communication was really bad to point of insulting. Customers will remember that and word of mouth does matter.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
2017
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rockstar and other developers have more resources available to them. They can dump millions of dollars on a game. CCP is going cheap, super cheap. PC is the cheapest system to develop for.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
903
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect.
True......
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Cinnamon267
200
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Games Haven wrote:Pretty f**king far, have you seen all console ports in 2013? They all have one thing in common, they take up more memory than Dust, and have more content.
More storage? What's that got to do with anything? Just content? |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2222
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 21:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:In terms of generic lobby shooter? Probably more.
In terms of what I think I see as the initial Developer's vision of Dust (through archived devblogs), probably not much. It comes down to how easy it would be to network between the client and tranquility. The lag during the fitting screen, and the lag between OB (Eve side) and OB (Dust side) has been at times quite a wait. Player to Player markets would have had a similar problem, and probably led to more "Fatal Error" issues as well.
Delivering the Sandbox experience instead of matches and lobbies would probably be too much for the PS3 to handle (especially if you want the option of larger-scaled engagements and not a few players per instance).
Everyone seems to forget that going through Sony is part of the problem here too, hence no PS4 port.
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
270
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level.
It's not the hardware it's CCP, they can't code for the PS3.
Eve is point and click style MMO, that's what CCP is good at..
No disrespect but console game FPS is way out of thier league. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
903
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 21:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Denn Maell wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level. It's not the hardware it's CCP, they can't code for the PS3. Eve is point and click style MMO, that's what CCP is good at.. No disrespect but console game FPS is way out of thier league.
ummmm there's a lot of thinking when it comes to EVE, not just point and click.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Scheherazade VII
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
459
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
I know the PS3 has some incredible looking games, I have just started playing Vanquish from 2010, that game looks great
and runs great. DUST is so sluggish I can't go from 60FPS PC gaming to maybe 30FPS DUST in 720p with muddy textures, if it could have looked better then the textures would have been updated, they started to be, slowly, but only once or twice, and only a small amount of the textures, I looked hard every patch.
What I did see however was skyscapes, planetscapes if you will, far-away battlegrounds, do you see what they have done
in legion? the lava is actually dynamic and the environment is more realistic, it's possible on PC but not PS3 (in DUST, other games could as previouslt mentioned) what I did see however was all that stuff taking up a LOT of memory on the PS3.
if the maps were smaller or we didn't have those simulations, they're meant to simulate the rest of the planet, it never felt like that as the battle fixated on such a small portion of the map for the majority of the time and big maps spreads the player count thin so most games are empty and boring!
to improve the frame rate they should have gotten rid of all that stuff which you didn't ever see way off in the background, with PC you get better frame rate, better resolution, better graphics, of course now the game will be a case of good M+KB although I do well with a very old maybe 7 year old logitech ex-100 wireless keyboard and mouse, fast refresh rate monitor (running 100hz myself) fast internet connection (nope) and PC specs.
You will need a good PC to compete and for the game to look good. I don't think DUST, being developed by CCP, on that engine, on PS3, could have really gone anywhere, otherwise it would have improved in areas which it did not. i.e frame rate, hit detection and graphics/resolution.
Still right decision wrong time, this is the end of DUST, it's like it was one really long beta designed to milk players for cash, CCP realised they hit a brick wall with this game as a lot of players are rich and have no problem running proto all day long and are so far ahead of the new players.
I realised now that the game's business model is this,
player A pays to get ahead, so do his friends, soon there are a group of players with good gear, weapons, lots of SP and ISK etc, player B and the random people he plays with can't compete in militia gear. There was never any gear-tiered matchmaking because CCP don't want you to be on the same level as everyone, they want you to get your ass kicked and then pay to get on even ground!
It means that, and this is where DUST annoys me, a group of bad players can run proto and walk all over you, meaning it's more about gear and sp than skill. It means that eventually new players just quit. CCP can now reach out to a much larger playerbase (don't quote me on the numbers but I'm sure their game will do better on PC) and start again with matchmaking and new player experience.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8413
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
We'll just never know.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
271
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cinnamon267 wrote:Games Haven wrote:Pretty f**king far, have you seen all console ports in 2013? They all have one thing in common, they take up more memory than Dust, and have more content. More storage? What's that got to do with anything? Just content? KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. Every developer complained about it. It was a ****** system to develop for. Just because no one talks about it publicly says nothing about what it is like to develop for. Because if they do whiny armchair developers step in. Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect. Not to mention 12 unique dropsuit models, 6 different vehicle models(12 if the racial vehicles are all added) plus all the weapons. People seem to think there is an infinite pool of RAM in the PS3, for whatever reason. Few games have done what Dust has done, in that respect. Brining up MAG is weird considering making anything for 256 players would have been a nightmare. You don't see insanely high player counts for a reason. Testing it isn't logistically possible for some studio. And we know nothing about their server tech. And bringing up GTA5 makes very little sense. A game in which 1,000 people worked on with a budget of 265 million with a dev time of 5 years. Why are we brining this up? It makes no sense.
Not true Mag's 256 player game mode was very structured.,objective based. Again something CCP
Couldn't code for Dust, also none of the roles are defined again coding not hardware. In the end it falls on CCP
Not the PS3 limitations. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2222
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Posted - 2014.05.07 21:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Cinnamon267 wrote:Games Haven wrote:Pretty f**king far, have you seen all console ports in 2013? They all have one thing in common, they take up more memory than Dust, and have more content. More storage? What's that got to do with anything? Just content? KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. Every developer complained about it. It was a ****** system to develop for. Just because no one talks about it publicly says nothing about what it is like to develop for. Because if they do whiny armchair developers step in. Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect. Not to mention 12 unique dropsuit models, 6 different vehicle models(12 if the racial vehicles are all added) plus all the weapons. People seem to think there is an infinite pool of RAM in the PS3, for whatever reason. Few games have done what Dust has done, in that respect. Brining up MAG is weird considering making anything for 256 players would have been a nightmare. You don't see insanely high player counts for a reason. Testing it isn't logistically possible for some studio. And we know nothing about their server tech. And bringing up GTA5 makes very little sense. A game in which 1,000 people worked on with a budget of 265 million with a dev time of 5 years. Why are we brining this up? It makes no sense. Not true Mag's 256 player game mode was very structured.,objective based. Again something CCP Couldn't code for Dust, also none of the roles are defined again coding not hardware. In the end it falls on CCP Not the PS3 limitations.
Just because some other developer has managed to code around the limitations of the PS3 in a way you don't notice, doesn't make the limitations of the PS3 a non-issue. The PS3 is very limited, and unless you've seen the code for MAG, you have no idea what kind of shortcuts they took. |
KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
271
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Posted - 2014.05.07 22:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
da GAND wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Denn Maell wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level. It's not the hardware it's CCP, they can't code for the PS3. Eve is point and click style MMO, that's what CCP is good at.. No disrespect but console game FPS is way out of thier league. ummmm there's a lot of thinking when it comes to EVE, not just point and click.
I played Eve for 3 years it's point and click with fittings no skill involved. Yes it requires thinking it was the easiest MMO
I've ever played great game. Shooting people in the face FPS style takes skill.
Lets not forget the reviews what did they crush on Dust game mechanics. I honestly believe CCP is not cut out
For shooters.
I think point click type games is what CCP is good at.
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DozersMouse XIII
Inner.Hell
756
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Posted - 2014.05.07 22:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
the world may never know.
why pctards were mad at dust
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DoomLead
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
307
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Posted - 2014.05.07 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
I say it comes down to knowing how to code the game i have been saying this for a while they could have either bought these assets and reskinned it for dust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_t_HfLSBs the developer went out of business or they could have hired this studio which was another indie to do the game for them. This is the game play we should have had plz watch this video and it was admitted by several devs that they drew inspiration from this game
for those of you who think that there are a lot of fittings Ghost recon Future Soldier has 10 million different combinations granted it is just 6 on 6 on smaller way more detailed maps though however they are smaller but 3rd person requires more processing power because you have to render a player model.
CCP's problem was there development team consisted of noobs why anyone thinks legion will be any better is mindboggling unless they are going to use the same engine that EVE runs on and they hire a brand new dev team not an executive producer i am talking about programmers who know how to optimize code so that there games can run on computers that aren't built to run the cry engine |
Kierkegaard Soren
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
430
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 22:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
In terms of realising CCP's vision of an integrated Dust/EvE universe, not very far. I think the PS3 was a poor choice for linking two disparate games together in such an ambitious and intricate manner. The PC is hands down the better choice in this respect, and always was.
But in terms of making Dust a perfectly solid, exciting and enjoyable FPS in its own right? Huge. The PS3 is old, not decrepit. The things that made us tear our collective hair out at this game; the glitches, the bugs, the balancing or lack thereof were all the mistakes of CCP as a developer, and not a fault of the hardware or Unreal engine. Dust still had the potential to be great FPS even without the fancy bells and whistles of the EvE link being present within it, and I hope (admittedly, in vain) that the team of developers that we have left still has the drive to really fix this game into something we can be proud to have been apart of.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
|
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
332
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 22:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
DCUO contains a pretty impressive array of gear, has a crafting system that allows you to (somewhat) tweak the stats of each individual piece, and allows players to customize their appearance (so they can "wear" one piece while gaining the actual stats from another).
Unless they're trying to emulate a particular existing comic book character or displaying a specific, matched set, it's doubtful you'll ever see two identical characters.
AND it's an MMORPG on top of that. |
Scheneighnay McBob
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
5012
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
By the time Legion is released, the PS3 will have been obsolete for a while.
|
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
333
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:By the time Legion is released, the PS3 will have been obsolete for a while.
By the time Legion is released, I'll probably be too old and arthritic to hold a controller anyway. |
|
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2789
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it.
However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go. Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great.
Well you see this is thing though, assuming Legion is produced using U4 there are very few real differences in programming the consoles by comparison to the PC.
Bungie have X box experience, that's more than the developers of DUST had by a long shot.
The only reason they are developing Legion on PC first is because
1) You can patch self published games when you feel like it, so if there is a bug in the client code yoh don't have to wait till the next patch window to fix it. An example would 1.4 a few days after release a mysterious sub version was released, thks probably cost CCP a lot of money to distribute this patch.
2) Patches cost money, the problem with a persistent game is that especially at the beginning there are a lot of things forever changing, moving about etc, if you are charged for each patch you make doing what CCP did with a monthly patch becomes very expensive
3) Optimization is not a primary concern, if you are developing on PC at least at the beginning you rarely need to worry about system loads, provided you leave yourself enough 'room to grow' optimization only needs to happen when you 'run out space'.
4) In house testing is easier, now instead of taking the code, loading onto a console and testing from their, it is possible to properly field test directly from the computer it was developed on, making things like glitches much easier to solve.
5) Test Servers
However like I said the changes required for a PC game developed on U4 to become a PS4 game developed on U4, are probably more tedious than they are difficult, there would be no reason for a finished project legion not to come to PS4.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2226
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:da GAND wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it.
However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go. Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great. Well you see this is thing though, assuming Legion is produced using U4 there are very few real differences in programming the consoles by comparison to the PC. Bungie have X box experience, that's more than the developers of DUST had by a long shot. The only reason they are developing Legion on PC first is because 1) You can patch self published games when you feel like it, so if there is a bug in the client code yoh don't have to wait till the next patch window to fix it. An example would 1.4 a few days after release a mysterious sub version was released, thks probably cost CCP a lot of money to distribute this patch. 2) Patches cost money, the problem with a persistent game is that especially at the beginning there are a lot of things forever changing, moving about etc, if you are charged for each patch you make doing what CCP did with a monthly patch becomes very expensive 3) Optimization is not a primary concern, if you are developing on PC at least at the beginning you rarely need to worry about system loads, provided you leave yourself enough 'room to grow' optimization only needs to happen when you 'run out space'. 4) In house testing is easier, now instead of taking the code, loading onto a console and testing from their, it is possible to properly field test directly from the computer it was developed on, making things like glitches much easier to solve. 5) Test Servers However like I said the changes required for a PC game developed on U4 to become a PS4 game developed on U4, are probably more tedious than they are difficult, there would be no reason for a finished project legion not to come to PS4.
These are all good reasons, but don't forget that CCP on PC also would not have to share/negotiate with sony on things like microtransactions, server locations, QA, etc.
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2791
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:
Just because some other developer has managed to code around the limitations of the PS3 in a way you don't notice, doesn't make the limitations of the PS3 a non-issue. The PS3 is very limited, and unless you've seen the code for MAG, you have no idea what kind of shortcuts they took.
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2226
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details.
Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument.
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2791
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 23:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:da GAND wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it.
However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go. Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great. Well you see this is thing though, assuming Legion is produced using U4 there are very few real differences in programming the consoles by comparison to the PC. Bungie have X box experience, that's more than the developers of DUST had by a long shot. The only reason they are developing Legion on PC first is because 1) You can patch self published games when you feel like it, so if there is a bug in the client code yoh don't have to wait till the next patch window to fix it. An example would 1.4 a few days after release a mysterious sub version was released, thks probably cost CCP a lot of money to distribute this patch. 2) Patches cost money, the problem with a persistent game is that especially at the beginning there are a lot of things forever changing, moving about etc, if you are charged for each patch you make doing what CCP did with a monthly patch becomes very expensive 3) Optimization is not a primary concern, if you are developing on PC at least at the beginning you rarely need to worry about system loads, provided you leave yourself enough 'room to grow' optimization only needs to happen when you 'run out space'. 4) In house testing is easier, now instead of taking the code, loading onto a console and testing from their, it is possible to properly field test directly from the computer it was developed on, making things like glitches much easier to solve. 5) Test Servers However like I said the changes required for a PC game developed on U4 to become a PS4 game developed on U4, are probably more tedious than they are difficult, there would be no reason for a finished project legion not to come to PS4. These are all good reasons, but don't forget that CCP on PC also would not have to share/negotiate with sony on things like microtransactions, server locations, QA, etc.
True though microtransactions is more of a royalty cut thing
While Server Locations and QA is for all intensive purposes a factor in 2
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2791
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument.
I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess.
However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park.
Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
784
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2229
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride.
So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies.
Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. As an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3.
edit for laughable typos. |
JIMvc2
UNREAL WARRIORS
138
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know.
Plus since Dust 514 is a exclusive, CCP should Put the Ps3 to its limit.
As a MAG vet. I enjoyed kicking Valor and SVER n00bs in the butt.
If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2792
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos.
Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer.
It's more that is outclassed.
Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection.
But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated.
When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited'  hardware
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
|
|
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2230
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos. Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer. It's more that is outclassed. Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection. But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated. When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited' hardware
Everything is limited. Computers too. The PS3 is very limited by today's expectations. I think I'm basically agreeing with you, aside from semantics. I still disagree that the cell architecture of the PS3 was ever all that good TBH. It's ok though, I think we can agree to disagree on that :)
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2793
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details.
Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument.
I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos. Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer. It's more that is outclassed. Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection. But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated. When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited' hardware Everything is limited. Computers too. The PS3 is very limited by today's expectations. I think I'm basically agreeing with you, aside from semantics. I still disagree that the cell architecture of the PS3 was ever all that good TBH. It's ok though, I think we can agree to disagree on that :)
Oh no the Architecture was friggen terrible, I shed a single very manly tear the first time I saw it, the hardware in the PS3 was equvelant to a 'mild enthusiast' level gaming computer probably about -ú700+ worth, but the architecture dragged it down like a lead weight.
Although yeah I think we reading of the same hymn sheet, just in different languages! 
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
333
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet.
All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC.
There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.
CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced.
They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it.
Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities.
Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe.
It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8421
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced. They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it. Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done.
Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
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Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
336
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced. They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it. Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done. Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe.
Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles).
Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them.
I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD.
I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after how they CCP handle Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task.
I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8425
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 01:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced. They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it. Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done. Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe. Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles). Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them. I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD. I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after how they CCP handle Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task. I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will.
Don't feel so alone. Many Eve Online players didn't think Eve would survive at all against big-name games like EA's Earth & Beyond or Blizzard's World of Warcraft. In fact, many predicted Eve would die within 2 years after launch which was in 2003. 11 years later...
Eve Online is now the proud holder of the title "Best MMO Economy in the Industry" and sees wars lasting for months and seeing single battles with as many as 3,000 ships duking it out in a single system at its climax. EA's Earth & Beyond died off while Guild Wars 2 admired Eve's economy enough to try to emulate it (though with some setbacks).
I'm not saying Legion and Valkyrie will reach that goal. I too have my doubts. I'm just saying that there is some hope and the odds aren't stacked against us. If you're right about the WoT universe, then that means there is currently no competition against the Eve Universe as no other company is doing the same. I predict that if CCP is ever able to succeed with this concept, then that will result in all the other companies following suit to try to compete by borrowing that concept.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2232
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 01:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced. They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it. Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done. Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe. Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles). Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them. I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD. I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after seeing how CCP handled Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task. I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will.
Perhaps not, but they have a much better chance on PC than on any console.
Also, it's three games. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
338
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 01:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced. They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it. Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done. Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe. Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles). Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them. I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD. I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after seeing how CCP handled Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task. I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will. Perhaps not, but they have a much better chance on PC than on any console. Also, it's three games.
You're right, three games, my bad.
Which just makes their task that much more difficult.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8425
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 01:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
I happen to notice that the WoT games and Eve games have one thing in common. The companies of both games tried to dabble with the consoles. I remember WoT being featured on the Xbox but I didn't bother with it because... I'm not paying M$ money to play a game that's already F2P. But the game does really well on the PC.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
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DoomLead
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
312
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 01:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced. They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it. Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done. Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe. Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles). Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them. I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD. I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after how they CCP handle Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task. I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will. Don't feel so alone. Many Eve Online players didn't think Eve would survive at all against big-name games like EA's Earth & Beyond or Blizzard's World of Warcraft. In fact, many predicted Eve would die within 2 years after launch which was in 2003. 11 years later... Eve Online is now the proud holder of the title "Best MMO Economy in the Industry" and sees wars lasting for months and seeing single battles with as many as 3,000 ships duking it out in a single system at its climax. EA's Earth & Beyond died off while Guild Wars 2 admired Eve's economy enough to try to emulate it (though with some setbacks). I'm not saying Legion and Valkyrie will reach that goal. I too have my doubts. I'm just saying that there is some hope and the odds aren't stacked against us. If you're right about the WoT universe, then that means there is currently no competition against the Eve Universe as no other company is doing the same. I predict that if CCP is ever able to succeed with this concept, then that will result in all the other companies following suit to try to compete by borrowing that concept.
the best online econmy is ultima online sorry to burst you fanboy bubble
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
904
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
@DoomLead could u explain how it's the best online economy out there, but in a simple way.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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ISuperstar
DIOS X. II
252
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
Destiny is going to be on PS3. That is all that needs to be said. |
Cinnamon267
205
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Not true Mag's 256 player game mode was very structured.,objective based. Again something CCP
Couldn't code for Dust, also none of the roles are defined again coding not hardware. In the end it falls on CCP
Not the PS3 limitations.
Never said it wasn't structured and objective based. I said making a game, with that high of a player count, isn't done often and for specific reasons. Making anything for it is a nightmare. That's why you have MAG and Planetside only doing high player counts, really.
Mojo XXXIII wrote:DCUO contains a pretty impressive array of gear, has a crafting system that allows you to (somewhat) tweak the stats of each individual piece, and allows players to customize their appearance (so they can "wear" one piece while gaining the stats from another).
Unless they're trying to emulate a particular existing comic book character or displaying a specific, matched set, it's doubtful you'll ever see two identical characters.
It also has (I think) 12 different power sets, each with two different "trees" to pick and chose from, three different movement modes (also with a full set of power trees in each), a seperate "iconic" set of powers to add "a la carte", and somewhere around 20 different weapons to chose from, each with their own combo trees to spec into, and each and every one of these has it's own, unique animation.
Again, I doubt you'll ever see two characters with the same combination of powers/weapons/movement mode.
What you end up withis a nearly infinite number of possible combinations, both functionally AND cosmetically.
AND it's an MMORPG on top of that.
All on the PS3.
That game also has a lot of the same issues dust has/had. Bad framerate and lots of textures just not feeling like they should load.
Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride.
The last sentence. Makes me laugh every time I read it. Taking it in "stride" means pretty big framerate dips into the low 20's with anything resembling combat starts. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
904
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
ISuperstar wrote:Destiny is going to be on PS3. That is all that needs to be said.
We have no idea if it's going to be an open world MMO-FPS like the ps4 and xbox one versions that have a better chance at being ones.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1067
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Graphics and weapon balance are satisfactory as is (a few tweaks we can all gripe about though).
Maps and game modes - 5 point capture are garbage and should have been improved a long time ago (no reason it can't be done on PS3)
PC is garbage - it's not tactical at all and maps are unimaginative recycle of Skirmish: could have been easily improved with some thoughts put into it (not gonna bother here with my thoughts on that subject - no one reads and at this point there is no point to care).
Player market - self explanatory. Can be made on Commodore 64, let alone PS3.
In conclusion - Dust could have gone as far as anyone would have wanted it to go on PS3.
The reason why CCP is leaving PS3 is because they think they can get bigger numbers of players on PC (milking EVE fans). It is not because of hardware limitations (everything about Dust is dated by PS3 standards).
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
643
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect.
None of this is loaded simultaneously and even if it was would completely pale into insignificance beside the memory requirement for basic textures etc. Non-issue. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1067
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect.
lol it's a laugh. All those thousands/millions of combinations break down to several parameters that scale up and down. A pocket tetris game can process those data.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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thesupertman
Better Hide R Die
349
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 03:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Look at destiny, the version on the ps3 is not a dumbed down version of next gen. It will have all the same content as the ps4, but it won't be as pretty. Bungie conferred this.
CCP DONT **ing FORGET ABOUT THE PS3 USERS!
Just give me something to play with!!
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
905
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 05:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
thesupertman wrote:Look at destiny, the version on the ps3 is not a dumbed down version of next gen. It will have all the same content as the ps4, but it won't be as pretty. Bungie conferred this.
We shall see not long after September
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
576
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 05:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Just to interject here....
Out of all of the developers for all time on the Playstations throughout the years, Konami (KECJ) I think are one of the few companies to truly understand the nuances of the Playstations architecture over the years.
On each system, the Metal Gear Solid games have always been a cut above the rest in terms of graphics, frame rates and basically what they were able to do. This is not only my opinion but also a well discussed topic throughout the gaming world.
Not many dev teams have the time nor the experience with the Playstation to achieve that sort of feat.
Moving to the PC platform should be a lot easier for CCP. They have worked on the PC for over ten years. Granted they have been working with EVE and not an FPS however the Unreal engines have been worked on by many many developers so I imagine getting the people with the right skills is a lot easier comparatively.
Edit -
I also believe this is why the new gen consoles are now running tech more comparable with the PC now as devs can make a game for one platform and easily adapt it to others.
Edit 2 -
Yes I am a MGS fan so I might be a little bias :P
Markdown:
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2238
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Posted - 2014.05.08 05:15:00 -
[61] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Just to interject here....
Out of all of the developers for all time on the Playstations throughout the years, Konami (KECJ) I think are one of the few companies to truly understand the nuances of the Playstations architecture over the years.
On each system, the Metal Gear Solid games have always been a cut above the rest in terms of graphics, frame rates and basically what they were able to do. This is not only my opinion but also a well discussed topic throughout the gaming world.
Not many dev teams have the time nor the experience with the Playstation to achieve that sort of feat.
Moving to the PC platform should be a lot easier for CCP. They have worked on the PC for over ten years. Granted they have been working with EVE and not an FPS however the Unreal engines have been worked on by many many developers so I imagine getting the people with the right skills is a lot easier comparatively.
Edit -
I also believe this is why the new gen consoles are now running tech more comparable with the PC now as devs can make a game for one platform and easily adapt it to others.
Edit 2 -
Yes I am a MGS fan so I might be a little bias :P
I was with you up until you said "bias". The word, in this case is "biased". I'm giving you a +1 anyway.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
906
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 05:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Just to interject here....
Out of all of the developers for all time on the Playstations throughout the years, Konami (KECJ) I think are one of the few companies to truly understand the nuances of the Playstations architecture over the years.
On each system, the Metal Gear Solid games have always been a cut above the rest in terms of graphics, frame rates and basically what they were able to do. This is not only my opinion but also a well discussed topic throughout the gaming world.
Not many dev teams have the time nor the experience with the Playstation to achieve that sort of feat.
Moving to the PC platform should be a lot easier for CCP. They have worked on the PC for over ten years. Granted they have been working with EVE and not an FPS however the Unreal engines have been worked on by many many developers so I imagine getting the people with the right skills is a lot easier comparatively.
Edit -
I also believe this is why the new gen consoles are now running tech more comparable with the PC now as devs can make a game for one platform and easily adapt it to others.
Edit 2 -
Yes I am a MGS fan so I might be a little bias :P
Agreed MGS always looked great, especially MGS4. Might just be me but when it came to graphics MGS4 was the best looking game on the ps3.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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THE 2000 SWINE
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2014.05.08 06:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know.
Bethesda actually had a reason in that character save files grew too large, in fact my Skyrim file grew to 22mg and the game just could not run.
ZIPPER knew how to regionalize players, and the did not try to "carry" high latency players as CCP does.
CCP's model/method is broken and a PC cannot fix latency. Adding programming schemes that penalise players with good internet connections to allow bad connections is just plain stupid.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
907
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Posted - 2014.05.08 12:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
THE 2000 SWINE wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. Bethesda actually had a reason in that character save files grew too large, in fact my Skyrim file grew to 22mg and the game just could not run. ZIPPER knew how to regionalize players, and the did not try to "carry" high latency players as CCP does. CCP's model/method is broken and a PC cannot fix latency. Adding programming schemes that penalise players with good internet connections to allow bad connections is just plain stupid.
He he he he well if CCP is serious about supporting Dust for awhile longer then maybe they should hire Zipper to help the people left working on stuff for Dust since most of the team in Shanghai is probably working on Legion.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
281
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Posted - 2014.05.08 13:38:00 -
[65] - Quote
da GAND wrote:THE 2000 SWINE wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. Bethesda actually had a reason in that character save files grew too large, in fact my Skyrim file grew to 22mg and the game just could not run. ZIPPER knew how to regionalize players, and the did not try to "carry" high latency players as CCP does. CCP's model/method is broken and a PC cannot fix latency. Adding programming schemes that penalise players with good internet connections to allow bad connections is just plain stupid. He he he he well if CCP is serious about supporting Dust for awhile longer then maybe they should hire Zipper to help the people left working on stuff for Dust since most of the team in Shanghai is probably working on Legion.
See that's the thing CCP doesn't want to spend a dime more developing for Dust.
They want to move in and abandon the game.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
907
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 13:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:da GAND wrote:THE 2000 SWINE wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. Bethesda actually had a reason in that character save files grew too large, in fact my Skyrim file grew to 22mg and the game just could not run. ZIPPER knew how to regionalize players, and the did not try to "carry" high latency players as CCP does. CCP's model/method is broken and a PC cannot fix latency. Adding programming schemes that penalise players with good internet connections to allow bad connections is just plain stupid. He he he he well if CCP is serious about supporting Dust for awhile longer then maybe they should hire Zipper to help the people left working on stuff for Dust since most of the team in Shanghai is probably working on Legion. See that's the thing CCP doesn't want to spend a dime more developing for Dust. They want to move in and abandon the game.
Well if it means faster development for Legion and a possible beta this year then I think they should just stop bothering themselves with Dust.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3304
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Denn Maell wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level. It's not the hardware it's CCP, they can't code for the PS3. Eve is point and click style MMO, that's what CCP is good at.. No disrespect but console game FPS is way out of thier league.
10/10 for the most ignorant and backwards thing said on the forums besides 'no squads in pubs please'.
So much fail in this thread, ignorant snivelling fail.
Well that was fun
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Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2014.05.08 14:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
Question? How many of you have developed a game before? If yes, continue, if no, STFU.
Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3307
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Eve legion for the win, git gud scrubs.
Well that was fun
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
908
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Posted - 2014.05.08 14:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Eve legion for the win, git gud scrubs.
Lol calm down I was just wondering how much more CCP could've done with the ps3, I wasn't saying that going to PC was a bad idea. I even said at the beginning of the thread that I support Legion.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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|
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3307
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
OK OK I'll be good!.
Well that was fun
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3307
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Eve legion for the win, git gud scrubs. Lol calm down I was just wondering how much more CCP could've done with the ps3, I wasn't saying that going to PC was a bad idea. I even said at the beginning of the thread that I support Legion.
Ah I was going on at the other bullsht, your post was fair, sorry.
Well that was fun
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3307
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 14:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'll be playing dust until it dies though.
Well that was fun
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Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2014.05.08 14:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far.
How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further.
Source?
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
908
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Posted - 2014.05.08 15:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:I'll be playing dust until it dies though.
I can hardly find a reason to play, I haven't played since last Friday. I was hardly having any fun playing the three modes over and over again. But if CCP is actually serious about supporting Dust and developing it a bit more then I might play it even if it's one new mode. Or if they make interesting changes to any of the modes we have I'd be willing to try it out a bit. I have my passive SP going so it's not like I'm neglecting my character.
Edit: I actually played a few days ago and played 3 battles with my buddy in RL and some of my fellow corp members.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3311
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 15:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I'll be playing dust until it dies though. I can hardly find a reason to play, I haven't played since last Friday. I was hardly having any fun playing the three modes over and over again. But if CCP is actually serious about supporting Dust and developing it a bit more then I might play it even if it's one new mode. Or if they make interesting changes to any of the modes we have I'd be willing to try it out a bit. I have my passive SP going so it's not like I'm neglecting my character. Edit: I actually played a few days ago and played 3 battles with my buddy in RL and some of my fellow corp members.
When I play its just scouts 514 and its just boring as fk but my some of my corp buddies will be coming to legion and some of us play eve, we'll be in all 3 games until/if dust dies but they have a fairly long bit left on their contract with Sony.
If anyone wants to join Kleenex then feel free. We are not going anywhere.
Well that was fun
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JIMvc2
UNREAL WARRIORS
140
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 15:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
thesupertman wrote:Look at destiny, the version on the ps3 is not a dumbed down version of next gen. It will have all the same content as the ps4, but it won't be as pretty. Bungie conferred this.
Its current gen. Nobody cares how pretty it looks. Players just buy a game for the graphics and not gameplay.
If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
908
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Posted - 2014.05.08 15:49:00 -
[78] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I'll be playing dust until it dies though. I can hardly find a reason to play, I haven't played since last Friday. I was hardly having any fun playing the three modes over and over again. But if CCP is actually serious about supporting Dust and developing it a bit more then I might play it even if it's one new mode. Or if they make interesting changes to any of the modes we have I'd be willing to try it out a bit. I have my passive SP going so it's not like I'm neglecting my character. Edit: I actually played a few days ago and played 3 battles with my buddy in RL and some of my fellow corp members. When I play its just scouts 514 and its just boring as fk but my some of my corp buddies will be coming to legion and some of us play eve, we'll be in all 3 games until/if dust dies but they have a fairly long bit left on their contract with Sony. If anyone wants to join Kleenex then feel free. We are not going anywhere.
Yup scouts are pretty much the master race in the game right now, I think that I'll just stick with the Minmatar Scout when we get to actually play Legion.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14755
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level.
You also have to remember Zipper Developers specifically stated the whole reason why you couldn't visually customize your soldiers was PS3 limitations. They too were hitting roadblock as far as they went.
Zipper's earlier games show antagonizing amounts of pain on the system such as the hyper bright yellow tracers shared between all the games and the total disregard for prone collision boxes.
Other games don't track as much data per actor usually those that have some really simple and very common (as in how often that data is repeated) all of these are additional tricks to make the 256 mb shared limitations less obvious.
One thing I will say Consoles have taught developers an important skill of making things run better on less; not everyone can afford a crysis hyper ultra machine after all.
Data wise I know dust 514 soldiers are freakishly massive due to the large number of stats we carry passively this is probably more attributed to how the data is read retrieved and stored. I mean most games if you have +1 weapon damage is generally associated with one thing and one thing only. Here dust 514 has potentially many sources. Hacking for example Such as skills, natural suit, suit bonuses, Modules all effect the the hack speed and all of them are read individually instead of being neatly packaged into one flat number that is then red out.
Despite this it still shows that CCP not only does not have the experience to optimize for the PS3 as well as other game with various kinds of cheats I mean the background structures are 3d pure models (which oddly enough are also animated to a degree) in dust 514 most other games replace with a flat 2d painting instead. There are hundreds of other tricks that cheapen the memory cost but it always comes at the cost of fidelity of the game.
And just because a game is dumbed down graphically doesn't change data rates. FFXIV's harder battles are made much more difficult with ps3 players to the point its slowly starting a negative trend in social playing disallowing ps3 players. Whereas the PS4 has superior load times and response with better graphics and is the more preferred to of the two.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
287
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Posted - 2014.05.08 16:24:00 -
[80] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Kisses and hugs?
It will matter if they try to develop for a console. Gamers don't forget when a
Dev/Publisher screws them over. Just ask EA :) |
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
909
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Posted - 2014.05.08 17:17:00 -
[81] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Kisses and hugs? It will matter if they try to develop for a console. Gamers don't forget when a Dev/Publisher screws them over. Just ask EA :)
If they make a ps4 version then ya the console only guys here that have been playing the game for so long will try to convince as many people as possible that it's not gonna be a great game or to not trust CCP and whatever else they'll say to get people to not play Legion on the ps4.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.05.08 17:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos. Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer. It's more that is outclassed. Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection. But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated. When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited' hardware
It's not really that easy. The same solution cannot be applied in all situations.
This is a bit arbitrary example, but imagine two guys running around a track. On one place, there is a hurdle. For one guy it is possible to jump. For the other, it is not. He has to stop, take a step to the side and then continue running. He loses speed (performance).
Or let's say two guys are riding a bike. The ride at the same top speed. One of them have a load, the other don't. On road, they are both performing equal. Off road however, the guys with the load has to slow down to not
Very far-fetched, but the point is that the circumstances can vary much, and are crucial when you are near the limit.
I have never played MAG, but to my knowledge those 128vs128 battles were divided in different sections, and you could never interact with all players directly, so there goes some of that credibility.
Maps in Dust are huge. Not the playable part, but the rendered area, in preparation of the real deal. That was before they realized the difficulties they were facing, and could eat some memory.
CCP isn't that technically incompetent either though. I have heard from tech wizes that CCP have modified the UE3 engine so heavily that they drew attention from other developers. They've had demonstrations behind closed doors on E3 on how they have rendered certain things.
The Cell is theoretically very powerful, but extremely difficult to program games to. See, the thing with game programming is that it is the worst application to divide into threads since it is in real time. Many calculations are dependent on the result from another calculations. Every calculation have to be in sync every 60th second. Rendering videos or packing/unpacking compressed files are the direct opposite, and works very well divided on several threads and cores. The data doesn't have to be in sync in any way, and the data is predictable.
As if that's not enough, the Cell is basically a single core CPU with a bunch of small very specialized cores suitable only for very specific tasks and handling only very small chunks of data at once. Getting those small cores to work effectively is a real best, but crucial if you want good performance.
There are also several other limitations on how the data is transferred between the Cell, the XDR memory, the RSX, and the GDDR3 memory.
The Xbox 360 is much more straight forward on all points mentioned.
Comparing with Naughty dog is unfair, as they have spent all their time with the PS3 from the very beginning, getting close support from Sony, and learned how to cope with i in no less than 4 grand games. They have built their own engine optimized for the Cell, and programed very "close to the metal". No one will ever surpass The last of us.
If biomassing or quitting, add yourself to the registry https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159832
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meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
975
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 18:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
I really enjoy reading this discussion here.
I played this game for two years, and I payed a little I think it is fine for me.
The reason why I was so aggressive and still butt-hurt is because I loved this game, and now it is dying and moving somewhere where I cannot follow.
That is the main reason why the community is sheeting bricks, and flips table 180-¦. We loved this game, that is why we are upset. That and because many feel that CCP never really tries to push the PS3 to the limits.
Imagine a world where CCP is making this announcement and no one cares. ;)
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
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Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 18:17:00 -
[84] - Quote
DoomLead wrote:I say it comes down to knowing how to code the game i have been saying this for a while they could have either bought these assets and reskinned it for dust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_t_HfLSBs the developer went out of business or they could have hired this studio which was another indie to do the game for them. This is the game play we should have had plz watch this video and it was admitted by several devs that they drew inspiration from this game for those of you who think that there are a lot of fittings Ghost recon Future Soldier has 10 million different combinations granted it is just 6 on 6 on smaller way more detailed maps though however they are smaller but 3rd person requires more processing power because you have to render a player model. CCP's problem was there development team consisted of noobs why anyone thinks legion will be any better is mindboggling unless they are going to use the same engine that EVE runs on and they hire a brand new dev team not an executive producer i am talking about programmers who know how to optimize code so that there games can run on computers that aren't built to run the cry engine
Wow, looks very much like Dust.
The music sounded partly from Emperor: battle for Dune.
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres. CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced.
They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it.Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done.
Exactly!
Maken Tosch wrote:
...
like EA's Earth & Beyond ....
AHrrrm, Westwood studios! 
If biomassing or quitting, add yourself to the registry https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159832
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8438
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Posted - 2014.05.08 18:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Atikali Havendoorr wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
...
like EA's Earth & Beyond ....
AHrrrm, Westwood studios!
Published by EA.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14767
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Posted - 2014.05.08 19:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Atikali Havendoorr wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
...
like EA's Earth & Beyond ....
AHrrrm, Westwood studios! Published by EA.
Bought by EA specifically for that game to compete against Eve Online...
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
912
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Posted - 2014.05.08 20:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Atikali Havendoorr wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
...
like EA's Earth & Beyond ....
AHrrrm, Westwood studios! Published by EA. Bought by EA specifically for that game to compete against Eve Online...
Hmmmmmmm first Bungie makes Destiny a game that can be considered competition for Dust/Legion ( although they've been working on it longer I think) then EA with this game called Earth and Beyond? Now if CCP had put Dust 514 on the PC only they probably would've released it not long after 2009. It would have all the stuff they showed in the 2009 presentation and it would look better obviously. What I'm saying is it seems like CCP has been delayed from their vision with Dust 514 for many many years. And now there are games that will be coming out grabbing nearly every gamers attention and Legion well... might just be stuck with us dust players and EVE players. Valkyrie however a grab more attention for CCP.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Ender Storm
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
79
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 20:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Denn Maell wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.
That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.
In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level. It's not the hardware it's CCP, they can't code for the PS3. Eve is point and click style MMO, that's what CCP is good at.. No disrespect but console game FPS is way out of thier league.
Just to clarify, the team that codes Dust/Legion in Shangai is diferent from the team that codes EVE.
Thats not to say they are good or bad at it - personaly I dont like the gunplay in Dust - but they arent the guys that program the point and click HTFU shenenigans.
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
da GAND wrote:KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Kisses and hugs? It will matter if they try to develop for a console. Gamers don't forget when a Dev/Publisher screws them over. Just ask EA :) If they make a ps4 version then ya the console only guys here that have been playing the game for so long will try to convince as many people as possible that it's not gonna be a great game or to not trust CCP and whatever else they'll say to get people to not play Legion on the ps4.
That's exactly what will happen CCP will have to milk the Eve community have them be the fools.
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3321
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:10:00 -
[90] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:da GAND wrote:KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:99% of ccps player base isn't in dust.........
If you think this cute little dust fiasco will even matter a year from now then you are very deluded.
Again, dust makes up about 1-2% of ccps player base. Day one of legion will literally be about 10 times+ more successful that this pos generic fps that has some eve lore in it.
Kisses and hugs? It will matter if they try to develop for a console. Gamers don't forget when a Dev/Publisher screws them over. Just ask EA :) If they make a ps4 version then ya the console only guys here that have been playing the game for so long will try to convince as many people as possible that it's not gonna be a great game or to not trust CCP and whatever else they'll say to get people to not play Legion on the ps4. That's exactly what will happen CCP will have to milk the Eve community have them be the fools.
And how exactly would they milk us?.
Eve Legion FTW!
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
293
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:13:00 -
[91] - Quote
They will pimp you to buy Aurum like there is tomorrow. Talk big promise this
Promise that, then my favorite Soon tm :) |
TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3321
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 21:16:00 -
[92] - Quote
But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change.
Eve Legion FTW!
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
Lol just got an email from CCP telling me come back to Eve Online.
My answer hell bleeping no CCP let me down I'm good no more money from me. |
KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change.
I spent $400 on dust happily by the way. My issue is how they
They deceived the Dust community with false hope. While developing
Legion just to have folks buy Aurum. Sorry that's not cool they can pull
Those shenanigans with the Eve community. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
912
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:32:00 -
[95] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change.
They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have?
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3323
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:39:00 -
[96] - Quote
da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have?
Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this.
Eve Legion FTW!
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3323
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 21:43:00 -
[97] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. I spent $400 on dust happily by the way. My issue is how they They deceived the Dust community with false hope. While developing Legion just to have folks buy Aurum. Sorry that's not cool they can pull Those shenanigans with the Eve community.
And I spent around -ú1000. I don't agree with what has happened but its for the better in both the games sake and in a business sense. There is fk all whining will do about it mate.
Now please remember that dust makes up around 1-2% of ccps player base and its stuck on the console, the machine must go on.
Eve Legion FTW!
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:48:00 -
[98] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. I spent $400 on dust happily by the way. My issue is how they They deceived the Dust community with false hope. While developing Legion just to have folks buy Aurum. Sorry that's not cool they can pull Those shenanigans with the Eve community. And I spent around -ú1000. I don't agree with what has happened but its for the better in both the games sake and in a business sense. There is fk all whining will do about it mate. Now please remember that dust makes up around 1-2% of ccps player base and its stuck on the console, the machine must go on.
CCP does the same thing with Eve Online talk a big game and then don't deliver.
I'm at the point with CCP where it's show me what you got NO MORE TALK.
The talking is old now :) |
TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3323
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:54:00 -
[99] - Quote
da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have?
And the other reality is that CCP has a contract with Sony that has about 7 years left. Sony announced a while ago that the ps3 will still be going for another ten years, I'd say 7 to be realistic as it does have games people will want to keep but eventually should be available to buy and install re formatted for the ps4 SOONGäó.........
dust has some elements that would very badly affect eve players, some of which have waited years just to drop an OB. CCP cannot simply take that away so either dust will continue but turn fw heavy and go down that route OR eve legion will phase it out completely eventually.
With CCP moving to a platform they are used to, they won't need that many people to develop legion, I think dust will carry on at a very very slow pace and may or may not be shut off in 7 years but CCP owns most of the data...............
You can also add in how fking annoyed ccps shareholders would be to 100% completely scrap dust when they have enough data for the buildings of a game or the possibility of carrying it on in the future.
Eve Legion FTW!
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3323
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 21:55:00 -
[100] - Quote
So the really really real proper answer is who the fk knows.
Eve Legion FTW!
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3323
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 21:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:KING SALASI wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. I spent $400 on dust happily by the way. My issue is how they They deceived the Dust community with false hope. While developing Legion just to have folks buy Aurum. Sorry that's not cool they can pull Those shenanigans with the Eve community. And I spent around -ú1000. I don't agree with what has happened but its for the better in both the games sake and in a business sense. There is fk all whining will do about it mate. Now please remember that dust makes up around 1-2% of ccps player base and its stuck on the console, the machine must go on. CCP does the same thing with Eve Online talk a big game and then don't deliver. I'm at the point with CCP where it's show me what you got NO MORE TALK. The talking is old now :)
What do they do wrong with eve?. I'm high so please cut me a bit of slack lol.
Eve Legion FTW!
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Orenji Jiji
442
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Posted - 2014.05.08 21:58:00 -
[102] - Quote
The only limitation here is CCPs way of doing things -- lowest possible cost.
User market and joined economy would be a thin client over Eve backend, but obviously it was too much work, so that was not done Eve side.
Having matches with more than 16x16 was done before, it's engine limitation, not PS3. Obviously working on lighting code was more important than having bigger matches.
Adding content like weapons and vehicles is not dependent on consoles power, just nobody had time to create the content.
It's also not possible to have trees on playstation, silly kids, Battlefield is just wrong, don't listen to that game.
I liked this game.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
914
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 22:50:00 -
[103] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:So the really really real proper answer is who the fk knows.
Ahh well I still want my character and the sp to transfer over, I put up with the game to have my character progress for that vision CCP had with Dust which they have for Legion now.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2244
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 22:52:00 -
[104] - Quote
Orenji Jiji wrote:The only limitation here is CCPs way of doing things -- lowest possible cost.
User market and joined economy would be a thin client over Eve backend, but obviously it was too much work, so that was not done Eve side.
Having matches with more than 16x16 was done before, it's engine limitation, not PS3. Obviously working on lighting code was more important than having bigger matches.
Adding content like weapons and vehicles is not dependent on consoles power, just nobody had time to create the content.
It's also not possible to have trees on playstation, silly kids, Battlefield is just wrong, don't listen to that game.
Wow, I'm glad that someone who sits on the dev council came in here to let us know what's really going on behind the scenes. Thanks.
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Hairy Butter
Fairy Fleet
111
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Posted - 2014.05.08 23:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
They wasted too much time trying to get a decent framerate, Unreal is a horrible engine for ps3. It was a horrible waste of developer manhours trying to make Dust more open world on ps3, It could possibly have evolved more as a lobby shooter but there was way too much compromise with the ps3, too much work developing for the system and too little developing for the world. |
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
4360
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 23:11:00 -
[106] - Quote
Not far at all.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
914
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Posted - 2014.05.08 23:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
Hairy Butter wrote:They wasted too much time trying to get a decent framerate, Unreal is a horrible engine for ps3. It was a horrible waste of developer manhours trying to make Dust more open world on ps3, It could possibly have evolved more as a lobby shooter but there was way too much compromise with the ps3, too much work developing for the system and too little developing for the world.
I've seen that constantly mentioned, the slow development of the game with performance issues pretty much proves it.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14783
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 00:34:00 -
[108] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this.
Please do not spread rumors; current intention is to transfer as much as legion would allow for.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14783
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 00:36:00 -
[109] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? And the other reality is that CCP has a contract with Sony that has about 7 years left. Sony announced a while ago that the ps3 will still be going for another ten years, I'd say 7 to be realistic as it does have games people will want to keep but eventually should be available to buy and install re formatted for the ps4 SOONGäó......... dust has some elements that would very badly affect eve players, some of which have waited years just to drop an OB. CCP cannot simply take that away so either dust will continue but turn fw heavy and go down that route OR eve legion will phase it out completely eventually. With CCP moving to a platform they are used to, they won't need that many people to develop legion, I think dust will carry on at a very very slow pace and may or may not be shut off in 7 years but CCP owns most of the data............... You can also add in how fking annoyed ccps shareholders would be to 100% completely scrap dust when they have enough data for the buildings of a game or the possibility of carrying it on in the future.
Again wrong; there is no outstanding contract with dust 514 and Sony outside of the PSN store requirements that requires ccp to mostly pay the bill for shelf space and submissions to QA processing.
There may be one for valkyrie but am not involved over there.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
915
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 00:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this. Please do not spread rumors; current intention is to transfer as much as legion would allow for.
Ok good this and your other response about the whole contract thing clears things up a bit and sort of assures that CCP is going to do what they can to transfer our progress.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
390
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 00:44:00 -
[111] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this. Please do not spread rumors; current intention is to transfer as much as legion would allow for.
I don't doubt their INTENTIONS but, the problem is, it's too early to know just how much that will be, or how any of it will apply to the new system, if at all.
I could be everything, it could be nothing.
And yet they're raising hopes, and allowing people to believe that their progress WILL carry over, when they don't even know for sure if they will be able to deliver.
Based upon the claims they made for Dust, and how they worked out, I think a little pessimism is justified. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14786
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 00:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:da GAND wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this. Please do not spread rumors; current intention is to transfer as much as legion would allow for. I don't doubt their INTENTIONS but, the problem is, it's too early to know just how much that will be, or how any of it will apply to the new system, if at all. I could be everything, it could be nothing. And yet they're raising hopes, and allowing people to believe that their progress WILL carry over, when they don't even know for sure if they will be able to deliver. Based upon the claims they made for Dust, and how they worked out, I think a little pessimism is justified.
Skills I know shouldn't transfer because they're basically deleting the entire tree if they follow the new plan.
The SP progress that composes the tree is likely to be preserved. If it took you 4 months boosted to get where you where in dust 514 today, thats how far along you will be in legion; a boosted 4 month old character.
Before you go off on how unfair it would be for noobs. You have to remember we're currently simulating a game where there are players playing 1.5 years already and new players have to deal with that already. Legion will be no different to that regard.
As for other things like isk and items I would like to hear more from the community when it comes time to talk about it I know quite a few items may go away and would need advise on preserving best equal value.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14787
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 01:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
I would like to also add based on the presentation; that likely this will feel like a progress nerf because while some of you guys are near top of the trees some of these trees now may be getting MUCH taller and there being more of them despite the merging and its going to feel weird when you're in the middle of the tree again.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3326
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 01:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I would like to also add based on the presentation; that likely this will feel like a progress nerf because while some of you guys are near top of the trees some of these trees now may be getting MUCH taller and there being more of them despite the merging and its going to feel weird when you're in the middle of the tree again.
I'm glad its not going to be a progressive unlock system.
Eve Legion FTW!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14787
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 01:08:00 -
[115] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I would like to also add based on the presentation; that likely this will feel like a progress nerf because while some of you guys are near top of the trees some of these trees now may be getting MUCH taller and there being more of them despite the merging and its going to feel weird when you're in the middle of the tree again. I'm glad its not going to be a progressive unlock system.
I think of it more like FFXI or FFXIV's system. Its a mix of bonuses, unlocks, and pathing (with the bonuses or unlocked accompanying them) and when you train something up it can be used elsewhere freely with the bonuses following it. I anticipate many of you will have plenty of feedback if we can get CCP Z to post the polished idea.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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The Jungian
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
93
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Posted - 2014.05.09 01:16:00 -
[116] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:You can't blame everything on the platform. Obviously even CCP thought they could create their "vision" on the PS3 at one point, otherwise they never would have started there in the first place. (and, if I had've read the whole thread before posting, I would've seen that somebody already posted this! D'oh!)
Correct me if Im wrong but CCP went to Microsoft first for a 360 release but MS turned them down. If that had happened (I may be going on a ledge here) but I think I would still be playing DUST on my 360.
Hitler decides to CANCEL DUST 514 on PS3???
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TechMechMeds
KLEENEX INC.
3326
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 01:17:00 -
[117] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I would like to also add based on the presentation; that likely this will feel like a progress nerf because while some of you guys are near top of the trees some of these trees now may be getting MUCH taller and there being more of them despite the merging and its going to feel weird when you're in the middle of the tree again. I'm glad its not going to be a progressive unlock system. I think of it more like FFXI or FFXIV's system. Its a mix of bonuses, unlocks, and pathing (with the bonuses or unlocked accompanying them) and when you train something up it can be used elsewhere freely with the bonuses following it. The freedom to drill to unlock or the freedom to bonus out every option along the way will be up to you. Every time you fill up a skill 'bar' you get something. No more lvl 2 and lvl 4 doing nothing no more drop suit command 4-5 doing nothing. I anticipate many of you will have plenty of feedback if we can get CCP Z to post the polished idea. While Eve's system is nice with only 1 skill level I can recall being useless its not for the general audience of a shooter crowd remember CCP knows eve is hard to get into and wanted dust 514 to be an alternative to enjoy our universe legion should retain a similar goal lowering the entry bar a bit. and based what I have seen so far; we still by far the most deepest progression shooter out there still putting games like planetside 2 and loadout to shame in terms of character growth a far cry from some of the COD accusations I've seen.
That sounds good yeah.
Eve Legion FTW!
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Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
392
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 01:24:00 -
[118] - Quote
The Jungian wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:You can't blame everything on the platform. Obviously even CCP thought they could create their "vision" on the PS3 at one point, otherwise they never would have started there in the first place. (and, if I had've read the whole thread before posting, I would've seen that somebody already posted this! D'oh!) Correct me if Im wrong but CCP went to Microsoft first for a 360 release but MS turned them down. If that had happened (I may be going on a ledge here) but I think I would still be playing DUST on my 360.
Maybe, I don't know, but substitute "console" for "PS3" and my point still stands.
(I only said PS3 because it's the topic of the thread, and the console they ended up starting on) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14790
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 01:35:00 -
[119] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:The Jungian wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:You can't blame everything on the platform. Obviously even CCP thought they could create their "vision" on the PS3 at one point, otherwise they never would have started there in the first place. (and, if I had've read the whole thread before posting, I would've seen that somebody already posted this! D'oh!) Correct me if Im wrong but CCP went to Microsoft first for a 360 release but MS turned them down. If that had happened (I may be going on a ledge here) but I think I would still be playing DUST on my 360. Maybe, I don't know, but substitute "console" for "PS3" and my point still stands. (I only said PS3 because it's the topic of the thread, and the console they ended up starting on)
MS rejected because CCP wanted to have cross play and their own servers.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
915
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 02:18:00 -
[120] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:The Jungian wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:You can't blame everything on the platform. Obviously even CCP thought they could create their "vision" on the PS3 at one point, otherwise they never would have started there in the first place. (and, if I had've read the whole thread before posting, I would've seen that somebody already posted this! D'oh!) Correct me if Im wrong but CCP went to Microsoft first for a 360 release but MS turned them down. If that had happened (I may be going on a ledge here) but I think I would still be playing DUST on my 360. Maybe, I don't know, but substitute "console" for "PS3" and my point still stands. (I only said PS3 because it's the topic of the thread, and the console they ended up starting on) MS rejected because CCP wanted to have cross play and their own servers.
Oh well they only would've disappointed a lot more people at fanfest if we had people playing from the xbox 360 also.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14795
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Posted - 2014.05.09 06:57:00 -
[121] - Quote
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
977
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 08:04:00 -
[122] - Quote
Dear IWS or CCP, I have two really imported question and I fully understand that they cannot be answered clearly but a rough answer would mend my butt pain and probably a lot of others (I'm serous here). I fully understand that my behavior since the announcement after the presentation was awful at its bets. That is exclusively owing to my passion for Dust. And stuff I have said here.
1. Talking about Legion and how 'long' it is already in development I would like to know how (very roughly) far away is Legion anyway? Talking in mayor steps like: "beta around 2015".
2. The focus is official on the PC platform, does this mean that CCP does not keep the PS4 in back of their heads during the development? Meaning that Legion could become something that cannot be ported? Or is there a 'PS4 presents' saying: please find another solution for this, or it cannot be ported?
Would love to hear anything.
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
|
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
916
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:16:00 -
[123] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Dear IWS or CCP, I have two really imported question and I fully understand that they cannot be answered clearly but a rough answer would mend my butt pain and probably a lot of others (I'm serous here). I fully understand that my behavior since the announcement after the presentation was awful at its bets. That is exclusively owing to my passion for Dust. And stuff I have said here. 1. Talking about Legion and how 'long' it is already in development I would like to know how (very roughly) far away is Legion anyway? Talking in mayor steps like: "beta around 2015". 2. The focus is official on the PC platform, does this mean that CCP does not keep the PS4 in back of their heads during the development? Meaning that Legion could become something that cannot be ported? Or is there a 'PS4 presents' saying: please find another solution for this, or it cannot be ported? Would love to hear anything.
At the keynote they really should've said what they though when it came to possibly porting Legion to the PS4. But it's kinda too late anyways, a lot of people were pissed and plenty of console only guys bio-massed and will remember how CCP pissed them off. And might do as much damage as possible if they decide to make a ps4 version.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
978
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:25:00 -
[124] - Quote
da GAND wrote:meri jin wrote:Dear IWS or CCP, I have two really imported question and I fully understand that they cannot be answered clearly but a rough answer would mend my butt pain and probably a lot of others (I'm serous here). I fully understand that my behavior since the announcement after the presentation was awful at its bets. That is exclusively owing to my passion for Dust. And stuff I have said here. 1. Talking about Legion and how 'long' it is already in development I would like to know how (very roughly) far away is Legion anyway? Talking in mayor steps like: "beta around 2015". 2. The focus is official on the PC platform, does this mean that CCP does not keep the PS4 in back of their heads during the development? Meaning that Legion could become something that cannot be ported? Or is there a 'PS4 presents' saying: please find another solution for this, or it cannot be ported? Would love to hear anything. At the keynote they really should've said what they though when it came to possibly porting Legion to the PS4. But it's kinda too late anyways, a lot of people were pissed and plenty of console only guys bio-massed and will remember how CCP pissed them off. And might do as much damage as possible if they decide to make a ps4 version.
I really don't think that this is a big threat. There are a lot of community's out there and some people like me, would like to give PJ a chance on the Ps4. I own one, and if CCP would invite people to PS4s beta i would be so damn motivated to help as much as I can. By helping I mean not white knighting the game, but more helping objective and functional on the forums or other feedback function.
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
|
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
917
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:56:00 -
[125] - Quote
meri jin wrote:da GAND wrote:meri jin wrote:Dear IWS or CCP, I have two really imported question and I fully understand that they cannot be answered clearly but a rough answer would mend my butt pain and probably a lot of others (I'm serous here). I fully understand that my behavior since the announcement after the presentation was awful at its bets. That is exclusively owing to my passion for Dust. And stuff I have said here. 1. Talking about Legion and how 'long' it is already in development I would like to know how (very roughly) far away is Legion anyway? Talking in mayor steps like: "beta around 2015". 2. The focus is official on the PC platform, does this mean that CCP does not keep the PS4 in back of their heads during the development? Meaning that Legion could become something that cannot be ported? Or is there a 'PS4 presents' saying: please find another solution for this, or it cannot be ported? Would love to hear anything. At the keynote they really should've said what they though when it came to possibly porting Legion to the PS4. But it's kinda too late anyways, a lot of people were pissed and plenty of console only guys bio-massed and will remember how CCP pissed them off. And might do as much damage as possible if they decide to make a ps4 version. I really don't think that this is a big threat. There are a lot of community's out there and some people like me, would like to give PJ a chance on the Ps4. I own one, and if CCP would invite people to PS4s beta i would be so damn motivated to help as much as I can. By helping I mean not white knighting the game, but more helping objective and functional on the forums or other feedback function.
Ya it may not get to be more than then convincing their friends or people they know that CCP is a terrible company. That Legion will be pay to win, and over exaggerate their disappointment with Dust and CCP at fanfest 2014.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2495
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:56:00 -
[126] - Quote
They could have gone all the way to the PS4...
FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2270
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:51:00 -
[127] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:They could have gone all the way to the PS4...
Yeah, but they did one better. Skipped the PS4 in favor of the PC. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14809
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:35:00 -
[128] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Dear IWS or CCP, I have two really imported question and I fully understand that they cannot be answered clearly but a rough answer would mend my butt pain and probably a lot of others (I'm serous here). I fully understand that my behavior since the announcement after the presentation was awful at its bets. That is exclusively owing to my passion for Dust. And stuff I have said here. 1. Talking about Legion and how 'long' it is already in development I would like to know how (very roughly) far away is Legion anyway? Talking in mayor steps like: "beta around 2015". 2. The focus is official on the PC platform, does this mean that CCP does not keep the PS4 in back of their heads during the development? Meaning that Legion could become something that cannot be ported? Or is there a 'PS4 presents' saying: please find another solution for this, or it cannot be ported? Would love to hear anything.
As far as we know 'Legion' was not even in development before the CPM knew about it let alone before the new EP came aboard. Which in comparison is much shorter than Dust 514's 5 year development before public on hands. Legion is excessively in prototype phase and it shows in many places including the fact that there was not a playable version available at fan fest.
As for Legion's portability; CCP is currently focusing on making a good game first. The focus will be healthy for the game I honestly think doing too much at once could cause similar launch issues for Dust 514. I mean FFXIV's reboot focused on fixing the game first before hammering it's PS4 version out of way and with it out of the way and are now refocusing on expanding the game again. Warframe had a similar mentality one platform's issues at a time their current issue of just trying to get both games in lockstep to enable cross play. There is nothing ruling out a ps4 port out; but there is also nothing confirming it at this time. It is just something we are going have to wait on a bit and find out when we get there.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
980
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:30:00 -
[129] - Quote
Thanks @ Iron Wolf Saber.
So I guess we are years away from PL.
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14816
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:51:00 -
[130] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Thanks @ Iron Wolf Saber.
So I guess we are years away from PL.
PL?
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Ribbons Allmark
CELESTIAL BEING keepers of peace
35
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Posted - 2014.05.09 16:58:00 -
[131] - Quote
DoomLead wrote:I say it comes down to knowing how to code the game i have been saying this for a while they could have either bought these assets and reskinned it for dust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_t_HfLSBs the developer went out of business or they could have hired this studio which was another indie to do the game for them. This is the game play we should have had plz watch this video and it was admitted by several devs that they drew inspiration from this game for those of you who think that there are a lot of fittings Ghost recon Future Soldier has 10 million different combinations granted it is just 6 on 6 on smaller way more detailed maps though however they are smaller but 3rd person requires more processing power because you have to render a player model. CCP's problem was there development team consisted of noobs why anyone thinks legion will be any better is mindboggling unless they are going to use the same engine that EVE runs on and they hire a brand new dev team not an executive producer i am talking about programmers who know how to optimize code so that there games can run on computers that aren't built to run the cry engine
you have been saying this for months game looks good and was good however times gate turned out to have really shady business dealings |
meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
981
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 17:11:00 -
[132] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:meri jin wrote:Thanks @ Iron Wolf Saber.
So I guess we are years away from PL. PL?
Project Legion :)
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
|
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
917
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 17:34:00 -
[133] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:meri jin wrote:Thanks @ Iron Wolf Saber.
So I guess we are years away from PL. PL? Project Legion :), meaning that it will take a lot of time till we can finally see something significant announcements or even get our hands on it.
Maybe a year or less for the PC version and maybe two years for a ps4 version?
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
981
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:56:00 -
[134] - Quote
da GAND wrote:meri jin wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:meri jin wrote:Thanks @ Iron Wolf Saber.
So I guess we are years away from PL. PL? Project Legion :), meaning that it will take a lot of time till we can finally see something significant announcements or even get our hands on it. Maybe a year or less for the PC version and maybe two years for a ps4 version?
That's what I fear, a long head start for the PC.
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14826
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:59:00 -
[135] - Quote
I dont have a sharable time frame; and I have doubts in delivery time but when CCP is ready they will be ready.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
299
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Posted - 2014.05.09 19:58:00 -
[136] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues.
My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. |
Kratek Heshan
United Colonial Empire Army
Freek Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:05:00 -
[137] - Quote
i saw the graphics on project legion its like killzone 3 only |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
350
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
not far at all, we all expected something like this, but leaving the consoles all together well, that was the problem
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
918
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:50:00 -
[139] - Quote
Phazoid wrote:not far at all, we all expected something like this, but leaving the consoles all together well, that was the problem
We don't know yet if they are considering to not make a ps4 version at all.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2294
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:57:00 -
[140] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles.
And you think you have lag issues now? Good luck with that. |
|
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
300
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Posted - 2014.05.09 21:44:00 -
[141] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. And you think you have lag issues now? Good luck with that.
I never have issues with lag, it's all on your IP provider. Where i live it's outstanding and i meet the requirements. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
918
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:47:00 -
[142] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. And you think you have lag issues now? Good luck with that.
Lol I remember one of the vids that IGN posted on youtube the day after Sony announced Playstation Now. Was pretty damn funny.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14837
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:09:00 -
[143] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles.
Streaming? What's that? All I know is greedy ISPs that throttle me down for using their rivals network services instead of theirs. I'd be lucky to play a 720p video without having to pause 3 seconds before hand.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2305
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:10:00 -
[144] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. And you think you have lag issues now? Good luck with that. I never have issues with lag, it's all on your IP provider. Where i live it's outstanding and i meet the requirements.
Lag is a matter of physics. Communication isn't instant, and the farther away you are from the source, the longer it takes.
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Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2014.05.10 00:19:00 -
[145] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues.
That was actually a very good analogy of the matter.
If biomassing or quitting, add yourself to the registry https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159832
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
920
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 01:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. And you think you have lag issues now? Good luck with that. I never have issues with lag, it's all on your IP provider. Where i live it's outstanding and i meet the requirements. Lag is a matter of physics. Communication isn't instant, and the farther away you are from the source, the longer it takes.
I thought everyone knew this
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2311
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 01:49:00 -
[147] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Buster Friently wrote:KING SALASI wrote:
My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles.
And you think you have lag issues now? Good luck with that. I never have issues with lag, it's all on your IP provider. Where i live it's outstanding and i meet the requirements. Lag is a matter of physics. Communication isn't instant, and the farther away you are from the source, the longer it takes. I thought everyone knew this
I have been genuinely surprised at how little some of the forum posters here actually know. I know that makes me elitist, but I guess reality is elitist.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
920
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:39:00 -
[148] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. Streaming? What's that? All I know is greedy ISPs that throttle me down for using their rivals network services instead of theirs. I'd be lucky to play a 720p video without having to pause 3 seconds before hand.
Gonna get worse for me in the US with Net Neutrality laws being removed.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
920
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 01:26:00 -
[149] - Quote
Bump
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Space Marine One
Rebels New Republic
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 01:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far.
How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further.
no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years |
|
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
920
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 02:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Space Marine One wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far.
How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further. no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years
Seems like they saw MAG as another quick crash grab, exactly like any other company making fps games every couple of years.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
383
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 04:05:00 -
[152] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Space Marine One wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far.
How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further. no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years Seems like they saw MAG as another quick crash grab, exactly like any other company making fps games every couple of years.
Sounds oddly familiar.. almost like the exact mold CCP is following in.
Listen, Mag, a game 2-3 years older than Dust was able to do more with the PS3 using much less mature development tools.
We know the PS3 can handle 128 v 128 (so why couldn't CCP do just freaking 24 v 24).
We know the PS3 can handle much bigger and more detailed maps with trees.
We know the PS3 can do both of those things while suffering less performance problems than CCP managed with Dust.
The problem wasn't the PS3, the problem is developing a game in china.
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
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SeeD A
Dust Garden
34
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:00:00 -
[153] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. As an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos.
Fact.
1st. Dust was made for 10 years life cycle at least, by that time PS3 will be outdated, CCP know it. 2nd. Many, many! PC gamers mostly EVE pilots ask for Dust to be in PC so far back as E3 2011, CCP know it.
Now its looks to me that they realized Dust 514 have no future due to low profits and player base in console side. Dust 514 have a great future in the eve universe no doubt. I believe that the player base including think that.
So what we can do? Lets make it for PC with another name, THat will give the game a fresh start (2nd air) and attract (pc gamers) more people to the game.
On the Limitations of the PS3 at some point i believe it will have it but not so at these stages of game development(goals). But if you were the CEO, you will bet your money in half game project? I do not know about hardware or software side
and haven't hear what are those limitations but i know some people in the forums would like to discuss those limitations.
Dust: Keynote of Death
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:00:00 -
[154] - Quote
Mary Lilac wrote:da GAND wrote:Space Marine One wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far.
How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further. no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years Seems like they saw MAG as another quick crash grab, exactly like any other company making fps games every couple of years. Sounds oddly familiar.. almost like the exact mold CCP is following in. Listen, Mag, a game 2-3 years older than Dust was able to do more with the PS3 using much less mature development tools. We know the PS3 can handle 128 v 128 (so why couldn't CCP do just freaking 24 v 24). We know the PS3 can handle much bigger and more detailed maps with trees. We know the PS3 can do both of those things while suffering less performance problems than CCP managed with Dust. The problem wasn't the PS3, the problem is developing a game in china.
I don't know why they chose to set up in China but I don't think it that's the reason. Like I said at the beginning of the this thread I'm no expert when it comes to hardware, someone said on this thread there wasn't any customization for their characters in MAG because Zipper (the creator of MAG) said it wasn't possible because of the limitations of the ps3. Now with Dust we have 16 vs 16 but with all this customization for our characters which should considered a big load for the ps3. To me that seems to be part of the problem, also remember all that equipment spam and how it supposedly takes a lot of bandwith.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
592
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:04:00 -
[155] - Quote
Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle.
Impressed to say the least.
The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3?
Why isn't it restricted to PS4? |
Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
390
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle.
Impressed to say the least.
The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3?
Why isn't it restricted to PS4?
Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3.
LOL, check and mate.
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
921
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
Mary Lilac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle.
Impressed to say the least.
The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3?
Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3. LOL, check and mate.
I'll be surprised if it is an open world MMO-FPS on the ps4 and xbox one as Bungie has said. If it's also an open world MMO-FPS on the ps3 and xbox 360 I'll be shocked. But it's really not good to defend the ps3s capabilities with Destiny a supposed open world MMO-FPS that hasn't been released yet and won't be for another 4 month.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
396
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:40:00 -
[158] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Mary Lilac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle.
Impressed to say the least.
The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3?
Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3. LOL, check and mate. I'll be surprised if it is an open world MMO-FPS on the ps4 and xbox one as Bungie has said. If it's also an open world MMO-FPS on the ps3 and xbox 360 I'll be shocked. But it's really not good to defend the ps3s capabilities with Destiny a supposed open world MMO-FPS that hasn't been released yet and won't be for another 4 month.
Well I have been doing it using MAG, BF3, hell even GTA V has more technically impressive multiplier than CCP's effort. Sh-t in Sh-t out I guess.
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
304
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:56:00 -
[159] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. Streaming? What's that? All I know is greedy ISPs that throttle me down for using their rivals network services instead of theirs. I'd be lucky to play a 720p video without having to pause 3 seconds before hand.
Sucks for u i don't have those issue move to the East coast :) |
Ribbons Allmark
CELESTIAL BEING keepers of peace
62
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Posted - 2014.05.11 07:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
Dust's problem development wise wise they didn't know how to optimize for the cell. The cell has six different processors and each processor controls six different functions. For instance there is one for artificial intelligence one for texture is one for rendering and so on and so forth this allows for module arity and loose coupling when programming. The cell is actually more advanced than almost any other processor out there. However if you do not have the experience working with it you will make a completely buggy game like dust. So the argument about the ps3 not being capable is complete BS. Because it was manufactured to be a processor that takes object orientated programming to the next level. As was seen in the orange hearted series which I believe are the only games to actually harness the Cell processor to its fullest capabilities. CCP should have just recreated the carbon engine to work for the Cell processor I do understand that creating an engine or altering an engine is a long process. I do hope they use the carbon engine for legion even though I will not be playing it |
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.11 14:02:00 -
[161] - Quote
Ribbons Allmark wrote:Dust's problem development wise wise they didn't know how to optimize for the cell. The cell has six different processors and each processor controls six different functions. For instance there is one for artificial intelligence one for texture is one for rendering and so on and so forth this allows for module arity and loose coupling when programming. The cell is actually more advanced than almost any other processor out there. However if you do not have the experience working with it you will make a completely buggy game like dust. So the argument about the ps3 not being capable is complete BS. Because it was manufactured to be a processor that takes object orientated programming to the next level. As was seen in the orange hearted series which I believe are the only games to actually harness the Cell processor to its fullest capabilities. CCP should have just recreated the carbon engine to work for the Cell processor I do understand that creating an engine or altering an engine is a long process. I do hope they use the carbon engine for legion even though I will not be playing it
Nah looks like they're gonna be sticking with a heavily modified Unreal 3 Engine for now.........
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.11 16:36:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mary Lilac wrote:da GAND wrote:Mary Lilac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle.
Impressed to say the least.
The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3?
Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3. LOL, check and mate. I'll be surprised if it is an open world MMO-FPS on the ps4 and xbox one as Bungie has said. If it's also an open world MMO-FPS on the ps3 and xbox 360 I'll be shocked. But it's really not good to defend the ps3s capabilities with Destiny a supposed open world MMO-FPS that hasn't been released yet and won't be for another 4 month. Well I have been doing it using MAG, BF3, hell even GTA V has more technically impressive multiplier than CCP's effort. Sh-t in Sh-t out I guess.
I don't consider those games competition for Dust (now known as Legion) , the only game I would've considered competition is Destiny. But since Destiny seems to be on consoles only and Dust/Legion may probably only be on PC it won't really matter much. Since both are gonna be on different platforms. One is very limited with the hardware it's stuck on ( Destiny) and the other can go as far as it wants (Dust/Legion).
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Thurak1
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
640
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Posted - 2014.05.11 18:54:00 -
[163] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect.
Couldn't this overhead be easily managed by simply doing the calculations once when the dropsuit is deployed? |
Thurak1
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
640
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Posted - 2014.05.11 18:58:00 -
[164] - Quote
Also something to think about Titanfal is out on the xbox 360. I forget if the 360 was better technically than the ps3 but they are very similar.
So a game with online play 8v8 matches great graphics and parkour like there is no tommorow is totally possible on the 360.
So this was not done with dust because CCP created dust is really the reason. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.11 19:46:00 -
[165] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Also something to think about Titanfal is out on the xbox 360. I forget if the 360 was better technically than the ps3 but they are very similar.
So a game with online play 8v8 matches great graphics and parkour like there is no tommorow is totally possible on the 360.
So this was not done with dust because CCP created dust is really the reason.
8 vs 8 eh reminds me that maybe one of the things that they can do while they keep Dust up is at least putting in a squad vs squad mode. I
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da GAND
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Posted - 2014.05.12 12:05:00 -
[166] - Quote
Bump
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da GAND
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:17:00 -
[167] - Quote
Bumper
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2878
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:36:00 -
[168] - Quote
Excuse me, sir. Why are you bumping?
Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
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da GAND
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D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:59:00 -
[169] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Excuse me, sir. Why are you bumping?
Well I.... um...........
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