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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2784
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Posted - 2014.05.07 19:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it. However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2789
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Posted - 2014.05.07 23:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it. However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go. Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great.
Well you see this is thing though, assuming Legion is produced using U4 there are very few real differences in programming the consoles by comparison to the PC.
Bungie have X box experience, that's more than the developers of DUST had by a long shot.
The only reason they are developing Legion on PC first is because
1) You can patch self published games when you feel like it, so if there is a bug in the client code yoh don't have to wait till the next patch window to fix it. An example would 1.4 a few days after release a mysterious sub version was released, thks probably cost CCP a lot of money to distribute this patch.
2) Patches cost money, the problem with a persistent game is that especially at the beginning there are a lot of things forever changing, moving about etc, if you are charged for each patch you make doing what CCP did with a monthly patch becomes very expensive
3) Optimization is not a primary concern, if you are developing on PC at least at the beginning you rarely need to worry about system loads, provided you leave yourself enough 'room to grow' optimization only needs to happen when you 'run out space'.
4) In house testing is easier, now instead of taking the code, loading onto a console and testing from their, it is possible to properly field test directly from the computer it was developed on, making things like glitches much easier to solve.
5) Test Servers
However like I said the changes required for a PC game developed on U4 to become a PS4 game developed on U4, are probably more tedious than they are difficult, there would be no reason for a finished project legion not to come to PS4.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2791
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Posted - 2014.05.07 23:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote: Just because some other developer has managed to code around the limitations of the PS3 in a way you don't notice, doesn't make the limitations of the PS3 a non-issue. The PS3 is very limited, and unless you've seen the code for MAG, you have no idea what kind of shortcuts they took.
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2791
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Posted - 2014.05.07 23:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:da GAND wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Their inability to program for the PS3, no offense to them, but it's the truth. You look at the people who published those kinda games and it's dug in console developers, who have had a large amount of experience pushing consoles to their limit even in the early stages.
CCP has pretty much only exclusively programmed on PC (Dust excluded) and as such they just don't know how to do it. However with PS4 it will be a lot easier to repurpose legion, after it has been beta tested and deemed ready to go. Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great. Well you see this is thing though, assuming Legion is produced using U4 there are very few real differences in programming the consoles by comparison to the PC. Bungie have X box experience, that's more than the developers of DUST had by a long shot. The only reason they are developing Legion on PC first is because 1) You can patch self published games when you feel like it, so if there is a bug in the client code yoh don't have to wait till the next patch window to fix it. An example would 1.4 a few days after release a mysterious sub version was released, thks probably cost CCP a lot of money to distribute this patch. 2) Patches cost money, the problem with a persistent game is that especially at the beginning there are a lot of things forever changing, moving about etc, if you are charged for each patch you make doing what CCP did with a monthly patch becomes very expensive 3) Optimization is not a primary concern, if you are developing on PC at least at the beginning you rarely need to worry about system loads, provided you leave yourself enough 'room to grow' optimization only needs to happen when you 'run out space'. 4) In house testing is easier, now instead of taking the code, loading onto a console and testing from their, it is possible to properly field test directly from the computer it was developed on, making things like glitches much easier to solve. 5) Test Servers However like I said the changes required for a PC game developed on U4 to become a PS4 game developed on U4, are probably more tedious than they are difficult, there would be no reason for a finished project legion not to come to PS4. These are all good reasons, but don't forget that CCP on PC also would not have to share/negotiate with sony on things like microtransactions, server locations, QA, etc. True though microtransactions is more of a royalty cut thing While Server Locations and QA is for all intensive purposes a factor in 2
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2791
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Posted - 2014.05.08 00:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument.
I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess.
However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park.
Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2792
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 00:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos.
Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer. It's more that is outclassed.
Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection. But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated.
When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited' hardware
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2793
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Posted - 2014.05.08 00:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details.
Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument.
I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos. Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer. It's more that is outclassed. Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection. But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated. When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited' hardware Everything is limited. Computers too. The PS3 is very limited by today's expectations. I think I'm basically agreeing with you, aside from semantics. I still disagree that the cell architecture of the PS3 was ever all that good TBH. It's ok though, I think we can agree to disagree on that :) Oh no the Architecture was friggen terrible, I shed a single very manly tear the first time I saw it, the hardware in the PS3 was equvelant to a 'mild enthusiast' level gaming computer probably about -ú700+ worth, but the architecture dragged it down like a lead weight.
Although yeah I think we reading of the same hymn sheet, just in different languages!
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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