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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
920
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Posted - 2014.05.11 02:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Space Marine One wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far. How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further. no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years
Seems like they saw MAG as another quick crash grab, exactly like any other company making fps games every couple of years.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
383
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Posted - 2014.05.11 04:05:00 -
[152] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Space Marine One wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far. How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further. no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years Seems like they saw MAG as another quick crash grab, exactly like any other company making fps games every couple of years. Sounds oddly familiar.. almost like the exact mold CCP is following in.
Listen, Mag, a game 2-3 years older than Dust was able to do more with the PS3 using much less mature development tools.
We know the PS3 can handle 128 v 128 (so why couldn't CCP do just freaking 24 v 24).
We know the PS3 can handle much bigger and more detailed maps with trees.
We know the PS3 can do both of those things while suffering less performance problems than CCP managed with Dust.
The problem wasn't the PS3, the problem is developing a game in china.
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
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SeeD A
Dust Garden
34
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:00:00 -
[153] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. As an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos.
Fact. 1st. Dust was made for 10 years life cycle at least, by that time PS3 will be outdated, CCP know it. 2nd. Many, many! PC gamers mostly EVE pilots ask for Dust to be in PC so far back as E3 2011, CCP know it.
Now its looks to me that they realized Dust 514 have no future due to low profits and player base in console side. Dust 514 have a great future in the eve universe no doubt. I believe that the player base including think that.
So what we can do? Lets make it for PC with another name, THat will give the game a fresh start (2nd air) and attract (pc gamers) more people to the game.
On the Limitations of the PS3 at some point i believe it will have it but not so at these stages of game development(goals). But if you were the CEO, you will bet your money in half game project? I do not know about hardware or software side and haven't hear what are those limitations but i know some people in the forums would like to discuss those limitations.
Dust: Keynote of Death
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
921
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:00:00 -
[154] - Quote
Mary Lilac wrote:da GAND wrote:Space Marine One wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:MAG died for a reason... new content was very difficult to create at that scale. Just imagine the kind of things they had to do to make Domination work.
It was a great game though, and props to the Zipper devs for making it work. Can't expect CCP to do the same though.
They have pretty much admitted by moving to the PC instead of the PS4 that they are not console developers. Even Valkyrie started on the PC first. I think they intend to emulate the same model for Legion.
How far could they have theoretically gone on the PS3? With enough time and money, I bet pretty far. How far could they have practically gone on the PS3? Clearly not much further. no MAG because of player base fragmentation created by the expansion zipper release for the game dividing those who brought all maps and game modes and those who buy some of those maps and modes and those who didn't buy any. since those can't interact with other thus the game suffer a slow death. that combine with Zipper moving on into socom since they did have plan to support MAG for more than 2 years eventually kill the game. bottom line Zipper made mag as game. once they done with they move to the next project and not as platform where they laser focus for the next 5 to 10 years Seems like they saw MAG as another quick crash grab, exactly like any other company making fps games every couple of years. Sounds oddly familiar.. almost like the exact mold CCP is following in. Listen, Mag, a game 2-3 years older than Dust was able to do more with the PS3 using much less mature development tools. We know the PS3 can handle 128 v 128 (so why couldn't CCP do just freaking 24 v 24). We know the PS3 can handle much bigger and more detailed maps with trees. We know the PS3 can do both of those things while suffering less performance problems than CCP managed with Dust. The problem wasn't the PS3, the problem is developing a game in china.
I don't know why they chose to set up in China but I don't think it that's the reason. Like I said at the beginning of the this thread I'm no expert when it comes to hardware, someone said on this thread there wasn't any customization for their characters in MAG because Zipper (the creator of MAG) said it wasn't possible because of the limitations of the ps3. Now with Dust we have 16 vs 16 but with all this customization for our characters which should considered a big load for the ps3. To me that seems to be part of the problem, also remember all that equipment spam and how it supposedly takes a lot of bandwith.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
592
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:04:00 -
[155] - Quote
Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle. Impressed to say the least. The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3? Why isn't it restricted to PS4? |
Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
390
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle. Impressed to say the least. The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3? Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3.
LOL, check and mate.
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
|
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
921
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
Mary Lilac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle. Impressed to say the least. The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3? Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3. LOL, check and mate.
I'll be surprised if it is an open world MMO-FPS on the ps4 and xbox one as Bungie has said. If it's also an open world MMO-FPS on the ps3 and xbox 360 I'll be shocked. But it's really not good to defend the ps3s capabilities with Destiny a supposed open world MMO-FPS that hasn't been released yet and won't be for another 4 month.
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Mary Lilac
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
396
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:40:00 -
[158] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Mary Lilac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle. Impressed to say the least. The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3? Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3. LOL, check and mate. I'll be surprised if it is an open world MMO-FPS on the ps4 and xbox one as Bungie has said. If it's also an open world MMO-FPS on the ps3 and xbox 360 I'll be shocked. But it's really not good to defend the ps3s capabilities with Destiny a supposed open world MMO-FPS that hasn't been released yet and won't be for another 4 month. Well I have been doing it using MAG, BF3, hell even GTA V has more technically impressive multiplier than CCP's effort. Sh-t in Sh-t out I guess.
1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Be polite, they want to refund you!
|
KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
304
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Posted - 2014.05.11 05:56:00 -
[159] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING SALASI wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. Streaming? What's that? All I know is greedy ISPs that throttle me down for using their rivals network services instead of theirs. I'd be lucky to play a 720p video without having to pause 3 seconds before hand.
Sucks for u i don't have those issue move to the East coast :) |
Ribbons Allmark
CELESTIAL BEING keepers of peace
62
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Posted - 2014.05.11 07:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
Dust's problem development wise wise they didn't know how to optimize for the cell. The cell has six different processors and each processor controls six different functions. For instance there is one for artificial intelligence one for texture is one for rendering and so on and so forth this allows for module arity and loose coupling when programming. The cell is actually more advanced than almost any other processor out there. However if you do not have the experience working with it you will make a completely buggy game like dust. So the argument about the ps3 not being capable is complete BS. Because it was manufactured to be a processor that takes object orientated programming to the next level. As was seen in the orange hearted series which I believe are the only games to actually harness the Cell processor to its fullest capabilities. CCP should have just recreated the carbon engine to work for the Cell processor I do understand that creating an engine or altering an engine is a long process. I do hope they use the carbon engine for legion even though I will not be playing it |
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.11 14:02:00 -
[161] - Quote
Ribbons Allmark wrote:Dust's problem development wise wise they didn't know how to optimize for the cell. The cell has six different processors and each processor controls six different functions. For instance there is one for artificial intelligence one for texture is one for rendering and so on and so forth this allows for module arity and loose coupling when programming. The cell is actually more advanced than almost any other processor out there. However if you do not have the experience working with it you will make a completely buggy game like dust. So the argument about the ps3 not being capable is complete BS. Because it was manufactured to be a processor that takes object orientated programming to the next level. As was seen in the orange hearted series which I believe are the only games to actually harness the Cell processor to its fullest capabilities. CCP should have just recreated the carbon engine to work for the Cell processor I do understand that creating an engine or altering an engine is a long process. I do hope they use the carbon engine for legion even though I will not be playing it
Nah looks like they're gonna be sticking with a heavily modified Unreal 3 Engine for now.........
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.11 16:36:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mary Lilac wrote:da GAND wrote:Mary Lilac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Installed "Bioshock Infinite" following the FanFest debacle. Impressed to say the least. The PS3 is quite the capable little device.
Isn't Destiny going to run on the PS3? Why isn't it restricted to PS4? Holy crap that is an amazing point... freaking Destiny, a game that just sh-ts all over Dust in ever department, is coming to the PS3. LOL, check and mate. I'll be surprised if it is an open world MMO-FPS on the ps4 and xbox one as Bungie has said. If it's also an open world MMO-FPS on the ps3 and xbox 360 I'll be shocked. But it's really not good to defend the ps3s capabilities with Destiny a supposed open world MMO-FPS that hasn't been released yet and won't be for another 4 month. Well I have been doing it using MAG, BF3, hell even GTA V has more technically impressive multiplier than CCP's effort. Sh-t in Sh-t out I guess.
I don't consider those games competition for Dust (now known as Legion) , the only game I would've considered competition is Destiny. But since Destiny seems to be on consoles only and Dust/Legion may probably only be on PC it won't really matter much. Since both are gonna be on different platforms. One is very limited with the hardware it's stuck on ( Destiny) and the other can go as far as it wants (Dust/Legion).
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
640
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Posted - 2014.05.11 18:54:00 -
[163] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.
Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect. Couldn't this overhead be easily managed by simply doing the calculations once when the dropsuit is deployed? |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
640
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Posted - 2014.05.11 18:58:00 -
[164] - Quote
Also something to think about Titanfal is out on the xbox 360. I forget if the 360 was better technically than the ps3 but they are very similar. So a game with online play 8v8 matches great graphics and parkour like there is no tommorow is totally possible on the 360. So this was not done with dust because CCP created dust is really the reason. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.11 19:46:00 -
[165] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Also something to think about Titanfal is out on the xbox 360. I forget if the 360 was better technically than the ps3 but they are very similar. So a game with online play 8v8 matches great graphics and parkour like there is no tommorow is totally possible on the 360. So this was not done with dust because CCP created dust is really the reason.
8 vs 8 eh reminds me that maybe one of the things that they can do while they keep Dust up is at least putting in a squad vs squad mode. I
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.12 12:05:00 -
[166] - Quote
Bump
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:17:00 -
[167] - Quote
Bumper
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2878
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:36:00 -
[168] - Quote
Excuse me, sir. Why are you bumping?
Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
922
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:59:00 -
[169] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Excuse me, sir. Why are you bumping?
Well I.... um...........
Supporter of EVE LEGION
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