DUST Search - How much further could CCP have gone with the ps3?

Denn Maell wrote:

KING SALASI wrote:

Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.

That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.

In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know.

No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against.

CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level.


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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14755	Posted - 2014.05.08 16:11:00 - [1] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: KING SALASI wrote: Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up. They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away. It appears gradually. That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3. In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to And went back to PC cuz that's what they know. No offense, I see what you're saying, but your comparing very different teams with very different experience and talents. What Mag did with its large battles on a console is very much praiseworthy because of its accomplishment. Does this prove that the PS3 is technically proficient to pull it off? Sure, but not every team is going to be able to pull off such an achievement. Let's not make this into a new industry standard all who follow must measure up against. CCP's crowning achievements, hosting an MMO with tens of thousands of players on a single-shard server, a player-driven economy, was an impressive feat in its own right. Dust was supposed to be a way of interacting with that on a completely different level. You also have to remember Zipper Developers specifically stated the whole reason why you couldn't visually customize your soldiers was PS3 limitations. They too were hitting roadblock as far as they went. Zipper's earlier games show antagonizing amounts of pain on the system such as the hyper bright yellow tracers shared between all the games and the total disregard for prone collision boxes. Other games don't track as much data per actor usually those that have some really simple and very common (as in how often that data is repeated) all of these are additional tricks to make the 256 mb shared limitations less obvious. One thing I will say Consoles have taught developers an important skill of making things run better on less; not everyone can afford a crysis hyper ultra machine after all. Data wise I know dust 514 soldiers are freakishly massive due to the large number of stats we carry passively this is probably more attributed to how the data is read retrieved and stored. I mean most games if you have +1 weapon damage is generally associated with one thing and one thing only. Here dust 514 has potentially many sources. Hacking for example Such as skills, natural suit, suit bonuses, Modules all effect the the hack speed and all of them are read individually instead of being neatly packaged into one flat number that is then red out. Despite this it still shows that CCP not only does not have the experience to optimize for the PS3 as well as other game with various kinds of cheats I mean the background structures are 3d pure models (which oddly enough are also animated to a degree) in dust 514 most other games replace with a flat 2d painting instead. There are hundreds of other tricks that cheapen the memory cost but it always comes at the cost of fidelity of the game. And just because a game is dumbed down graphically doesn't change data rates. FFXIV's harder battles are made much more difficult with ps3 players to the point its slowly starting a negative trend in social playing disallowing ps3 players. Whereas the PS4 has superior load times and response with better graphics and is the more preferred to of the two. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14767	Posted - 2014.05.08 19:15:00 - [2] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Atikali Havendoorr wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: ... like EA's Earth & Beyond .... AHrrrm, Westwood studios! Published by EA. Bought by EA specifically for that game to compete against Eve Online... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14783	Posted - 2014.05.09 00:34:00 - [3] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: da GAND wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this. Please do not spread rumors; current intention is to transfer as much as legion would allow for. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14783	Posted - 2014.05.09 00:36:00 - [4] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: da GAND wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? And the other reality is that CCP has a contract with Sony that has about 7 years left. Sony announced a while ago that the ps3 will still be going for another ten years, I'd say 7 to be realistic as it does have games people will want to keep but eventually should be available to buy and install re formatted for the ps4 SOONGäó......... dust has some elements that would very badly affect eve players, some of which have waited years just to drop an OB. CCP cannot simply take that away so either dust will continue but turn fw heavy and go down that route OR eve legion will phase it out completely eventually. With CCP moving to a platform they are used to, they won't need that many people to develop legion, I think dust will carry on at a very very slow pace and may or may not be shut off in 7 years but CCP owns most of the data............... You can also add in how fking annoyed ccps shareholders would be to 100% completely scrap dust when they have enough data for the buildings of a game or the possibility of carrying it on in the future. Again wrong; there is no outstanding contract with dust 514 and Sony outside of the PSN store requirements that requires ccp to mostly pay the bill for shelf space and submissions to QA processing. There may be one for valkyrie but am not involved over there. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14786	Posted - 2014.05.09 00:53:00 - [5] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: da GAND wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: But I bought aurum through choice and had no issue with it either. The only issue I have is bpos but Im not going to cry over pocket change. They aren't gonna transfer any of our assets? Just our characters with the SP they have? Nothing is certain but one thing that does seem set in stone is the sp not transferring but that's fair play I say. Clearly jot making the same mistakes as releasing a beta and letting the beta players keep all that sp and stomp the sht out of thousands of newbs, I am guilty of this. Please do not spread rumors; current intention is to transfer as much as legion would allow for. I don't doubt their INTENTIONS but, the problem is, it's too early to know just how much that will be, or how any of it will apply to the new system, if at all. I could be everything, it could be nothing. And yet they're raising hopes, and allowing people to believe that their progress WILL carry over, when they don't even know for sure if they will be able to deliver. Based upon the claims they made for Dust, and how they worked out, I think a little pessimism is justified. Skills I know shouldn't transfer because they're basically deleting the entire tree if they follow the new plan. The SP progress that composes the tree is likely to be preserved. If it took you 4 months boosted to get where you where in dust 514 today, thats how far along you will be in legion; a boosted 4 month old character. Before you go off on how unfair it would be for noobs. You have to remember we're currently simulating a game where there are players playing 1.5 years already and new players have to deal with that already. Legion will be no different to that regard. As for other things like isk and items I would like to hear more from the community when it comes time to talk about it I know quite a few items may go away and would need advise on preserving best equal value. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14787	Posted - 2014.05.09 01:04:00 - [6] - Quote I would like to also add based on the presentation; that likely this will feel like a progress nerf because while some of you guys are near top of the trees some of these trees now may be getting MUCH taller and there being more of them despite the merging and its going to feel weird when you're in the middle of the tree again. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14787	Posted - 2014.05.09 01:08:00 - [7] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would like to also add based on the presentation; that likely this will feel like a progress nerf because while some of you guys are near top of the trees some of these trees now may be getting MUCH taller and there being more of them despite the merging and its going to feel weird when you're in the middle of the tree again. I'm glad its not going to be a progressive unlock system. I think of it more like FFXI or FFXIV's system. Its a mix of bonuses, unlocks, and pathing (with the bonuses or unlocked accompanying them) and when you train something up it can be used elsewhere freely with the bonuses following it. I anticipate many of you will have plenty of feedback if we can get CCP Z to post the polished idea. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14790	Posted - 2014.05.09 01:35:00 - [8] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: The Jungian wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: You can't blame everything on the platform. Obviously even CCP thought they could create their "vision" on the PS3 at one point, otherwise they never would have started there in the first place. (and, if I had've read the whole thread before posting, I would've seen that somebody already posted this! D'oh!) Correct me if Im wrong but CCP went to Microsoft first for a 360 release but MS turned them down. If that had happened (I may be going on a ledge here) but I think I would still be playing DUST on my 360. Maybe, I don't know, but substitute "console" for "PS3" and my point still stands. (I only said PS3 because it's the topic of the thread, and the console they ended up starting on) MS rejected because CCP wanted to have cross play and their own servers. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14795	Posted - 2014.05.09 06:57:00 - [9] - Quote http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14809	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:35:00 - [10] - Quote meri jin wrote: Dear IWS or CCP, I have two really imported question and I fully understand that they cannot be answered clearly but a rough answer would mend my butt pain and probably a lot of others (I'm serous here). I fully understand that my behavior since the announcement after the presentation was awful at its bets. That is exclusively owing to my passion for Dust. And stuff I have said here. 1. Talking about Legion and how 'long' it is already in development I would like to know how (very roughly) far away is Legion anyway? Talking in mayor steps like: "beta around 2015". 2. The focus is official on the PC platform, does this mean that CCP does not keep the PS4 in back of their heads during the development? Meaning that Legion could become something that cannot be ported? Or is there a 'PS4 presents' saying: please find another solution for this, or it cannot be ported? Would love to hear anything. As far as we know 'Legion' was not even in development before the CPM knew about it let alone before the new EP came aboard. Which in comparison is much shorter than Dust 514's 5 year development before public on hands. Legion is excessively in prototype phase and it shows in many places including the fact that there was not a playable version available at fan fest. As for Legion's portability; CCP is currently focusing on making a good game first. The focus will be healthy for the game I honestly think doing too much at once could cause similar launch issues for Dust 514. I mean FFXIV's reboot focused on fixing the game first before hammering it's PS4 version out of way and with it out of the way and are now refocusing on expanding the game again. Warframe had a similar mentality one platform's issues at a time their current issue of just trying to get both games in lockstep to enable cross play. There is nothing ruling out a ps4 port out; but there is also nothing confirming it at this time. It is just something we are going have to wait on a bit and find out when we get there. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14816	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:51:00 - [11] - Quote meri jin wrote: Thanks @ Iron Wolf Saber. So I guess we are years away from PL. PL? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14826	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:59:00 - [12] - Quote I dont have a sharable time frame; and I have doubts in delivery time but when CCP is ready they will be ready. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14837	Posted - 2014.05.09 22:09:00 - [13] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10215-Why-the-PS4-Doesnt-Do-PS3-Games Another interesting article citing issues with the ps3's issues. My lord are you really that dense, Sony is launching Playstation now a STREAMING service to play legacy games from the Sony libary noob. Please stick to CCP and PC before you speak about consoles. Streaming? What's that? All I know is greedy ISPs that throttle me down for using their rivals network services instead of theirs. I'd be lucky to play a 720p video without having to pause 3 seconds before hand. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked