Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.05.08 17:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.
The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.
As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.
These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details. Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument. I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess. However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park. Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride. So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies. Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3. edit for laughable typos. Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer. It's more that is outclassed. Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection. But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated. When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited'  hardware
It's not really that easy. The same solution cannot be applied in all situations.
This is a bit arbitrary example, but imagine two guys running around a track. On one place, there is a hurdle. For one guy it is possible to jump. For the other, it is not. He has to stop, take a step to the side and then continue running. He loses speed (performance).
Or let's say two guys are riding a bike. The ride at the same top speed. One of them have a load, the other don't. On road, they are both performing equal. Off road however, the guys with the load has to slow down to not
Very far-fetched, but the point is that the circumstances can vary much, and are crucial when you are near the limit.
I have never played MAG, but to my knowledge those 128vs128 battles were divided in different sections, and you could never interact with all players directly, so there goes some of that credibility.
Maps in Dust are huge. Not the playable part, but the rendered area, in preparation of the real deal. That was before they realized the difficulties they were facing, and could eat some memory.
CCP isn't that technically incompetent either though. I have heard from tech wizes that CCP have modified the UE3 engine so heavily that they drew attention from other developers. They've had demonstrations behind closed doors on E3 on how they have rendered certain things.
The Cell is theoretically very powerful, but extremely difficult to program games to. See, the thing with game programming is that it is the worst application to divide into threads since it is in real time. Many calculations are dependent on the result from another calculations. Every calculation have to be in sync every 60th second. Rendering videos or packing/unpacking compressed files are the direct opposite, and works very well divided on several threads and cores. The data doesn't have to be in sync in any way, and the data is predictable.
As if that's not enough, the Cell is basically a single core CPU with a bunch of small very specialized cores suitable only for very specific tasks and handling only very small chunks of data at once. Getting those small cores to work effectively is a real best, but crucial if you want good performance.
There are also several other limitations on how the data is transferred between the Cell, the XDR memory, the RSX, and the GDDR3 memory.
The Xbox 360 is much more straight forward on all points mentioned.
Comparing with Naughty dog is unfair, as they have spent all their time with the PS3 from the very beginning, getting close support from Sony, and learned how to cope with i in no less than 4 grand games. They have built their own engine optimized for the Cell, and programed very "close to the metal". No one will ever surpass The last of us.
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Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 18:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
DoomLead wrote:I say it comes down to knowing how to code the game i have been saying this for a while they could have either bought these assets and reskinned it for dust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_t_HfLSBs the developer went out of business or they could have hired this studio which was another indie to do the game for them. This is the game play we should have had plz watch this video and it was admitted by several devs that they drew inspiration from this game for those of you who think that there are a lot of fittings Ghost recon Future Soldier has 10 million different combinations granted it is just 6 on 6 on smaller way more detailed maps though however they are smaller but 3rd person requires more processing power because you have to render a player model. CCP's problem was there development team consisted of noobs why anyone thinks legion will be any better is mindboggling unless they are going to use the same engine that EVE runs on and they hire a brand new dev team not an executive producer i am talking about programmers who know how to optimize code so that there games can run on computers that aren't built to run the cry engine
Wow, looks very much like Dust.
The music sounded partly from Emperor: battle for Dune.
Mojo XXXIII wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.
Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.
Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet. All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC. There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres. CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced.
They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it.Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities. Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe. It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done.
Exactly!
Maken Tosch wrote:
...
like EA's Earth & Beyond ....
AHrrrm, Westwood studios! 
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