Ya I suppose that those companies had programmers that were familiar with the ps3 or just consoles is why they achieved all that. Bungie is making Destiny for the ps3 also which I am interested to see how it goes, if people are gonna be able to do as much as they can on the ps4 and xbox one version. Or if they're gonna have an open world on the ps3 version just like the ps4 and xbox one versions. Sure the graphics aren't gonna be great but as long as the gameplay and ability to travel a whole world on the ps3 is just as great as the ps4 and xbox one versions then it'll do great.

Well you see this is thing though, assuming Legion is produced using U4 there are very few real differences in programming the consoles by comparison to the PC.

Bungie have X box experience, that's more than the developers of DUST had by a long shot.

The only reason they are developing Legion on PC first is because

1) You can patch self published games when you feel like it, so if there is a bug in the client code yoh don't have to wait till the next patch window to fix it. An example would 1.4 a few days after release a mysterious sub version was released, thks probably cost CCP a lot of money to distribute this patch.

2) Patches cost money, the problem with a persistent game is that especially at the beginning there are a lot of things forever changing, moving about etc, if you are charged for each patch you make doing what CCP did with a monthly patch becomes very expensive

3) Optimization is not a primary concern, if you are developing on PC at least at the beginning you rarely need to worry about system loads, provided you leave yourself enough 'room to grow' optimization only needs to happen when you 'run out space'.

4) In house testing is easier, now instead of taking the code, loading onto a console and testing from their, it is possible to properly field test directly from the computer it was developed on, making things like glitches much easier to solve.

5) Test Servers

However like I said the changes required for a PC game developed on U4 to become a PS4 game developed on U4, are probably more tedious than they are difficult, there would be no reason for a finished project legion not to come to PS4.

Just because some other developer has managed to code around the limitations of the PS3 in a way you don't notice, doesn't make the limitations of the PS3 a non-issue. The PS3 is very limited, and unless you've seen the code for MAG, you have no idea what kind of shortcuts they took.

No, if 1 person can code around a limitation there is no reason why with enough effort everyone else can as well. Therein if 1 person bypasses a constraint that constraint is no longer a constraint.

The PS3 is hardly a 'very limited' machine, at least in terms of hardware. The problem is the Software Architecture made it very difficult to extract the maximum power from the system.

As for MAG code being shortcutted, if MAG shortcutted it, there is no reason why DUST couldn't do the same. In terms of DUST it is limited more by the developers lack of familiarity with the system, than the physical limitations of the hardware.

These are all good reasons, but don't forget that CCP on PC also would not have to share/negotiate with sony on things like microtransactions, server locations, QA, etc.

These are all assumptions based of your (and my) ignorance of the technical details.

Oh, and the PS3 is most definitely a very limited machine by today's standards. When it came out, nine years ago, you might have been able to get away with that argument.

I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess.

However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park.

Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride.

Zipper the creater of Mag knew how to code for the PS3 plus they built an engine from the ground up specifically
for the PS3. RockStar mastered rendering for the PS3. Meaning alot if the open world doesn't pop up.
They hide it with fog so when You get close to an object that's far away.
It appears gradually.

That's why MAG vets like myself laugh at CCP when they say the hardware is limited. To be honest CCP
is the only developer besides Bethesda that complain about coding for the PS3.

In short if CCP wanted large scale battles they could. They chose not to
And went back to PC cuz that's what they know.

So, let me understand what you're saying. The PS3 runs one some titles better than the 360. OK. The PS3 is very old and outdated by now, which is part of the reason that CCP is moving on to the PC - a platform that never gets old and dies.

Maybe they could have gotten more out of the PS3 than they did, but probably not much. Besides that, it has been for a while, a process of diminishing returns with the PS3 getting older and even less relevant. AS an admittedly bad analogy, you can probably get more out of pre-80's carburetors too, but at some point it made more sense to move to fuel injection because there was more overhead for innovation. I believe the same is true here regarding the PC vs PS3.

edit for laughable typos.

Pretty much, it's not that's limited, the Apollo Landing Craft was a limited computer.
It's more that is outclassed.

Some vehicles still run very well, sometimes even better on a carboretuer than fuel injection.
But as vehicles get faster, you get diminishing returns, not because it's limited, but because it is outdated.

When you talk about computers, very few are limited in their potential nowadays. As for my statement concerning The Last of Us, considering the 2 consoles were released roughly the same time with similar technology, the fact it still has more juice than an Xbox 360 is an ode to it's 'limited' hardware

Everything is limited. Computers too. The PS3 is very limited by today's expectations. I think I'm basically agreeing with you, aside from semantics. I still disagree that the cell architecture of the PS3 was ever all that good TBH. It's ok though, I think we can agree to disagree on that :)

They could have turned DUST into a competent and refined lobby shooter... That's about it, though.

Large-scale warfare with meaningful ties to EVE, an integrated economy, and all those other "big ideas" would probably only be shoddily implemented on the PS3.

Sure, CCP could attempt to push things to the absolute limit. But that would require them be extremely capable console game developers with intimate knowledge of every facet of the PS3. Which they are not and don't, in case people have not realized it yet.

All of CCP's "big ideas" would be difficult to achieve on ANY platform, even the PC.

There's a reason why nobody (that I'm aware of) has even attempted such a shared-universe between two different genres.

CCP has set themselves some pretty lofty goals that even the best, most experienced developers would have a difficult time implementing successfully, and CCP is neither the best, nor the most experienced.

They've already failed once on the PS3. You can blame the platform all you want, but CCP are the one's that claimed they would be able to deliver on that system, not us. They set their own bar, and failed to reach it.

Their ambitions exceeded their capabilities.

Will they be able to make their "vision" a reality this time around? Maybe.

It's a platform they're more accustomed to, and there have been some internal changes at CCP since they started Dust but, personally, as Legion progresses further through development, I fully expect many of their promises and goals to be adjusted, or abandoned altogether (just like we saw with Dust) as they (once again) realize that creating such an intricately shared univers is much, much easier said than done.

Actually, it seems that World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, and World of Warships is trying to achieve the same thing. The concept is still at its infancy, but it looks like the industry might see the birth of a new genre. The genre of the cross-game universe.

Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles).

Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them.

I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD.

I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after how they CCP handle Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task.

I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will.

Okay, so one company is attempting it with three very similar games (basically the same genre - vehicular warfare - with the only real difference being the types of vehicles).

Not exactly the same thing as CCP is attempting, with two completely different genres, with actions in each significantly affecting the other, with an extensive shared economy between them.

I do applaud CCP's desire to be innovative, especially in a market saturated with copy/paste franchises like COD.

I will always support and encourage any attempt to "break the mould" and try do things bigger and better, which is why I support games like MAG and Dust but, after seeing how CCP handled Dust's development, I'm just not convinced that they're up to the task.

I HOPE the prove me wrong, but I just don't BELIEVE that they will.

Perhaps not, but they have a much better chance on PC than on any console.

Also, it's three games.

Don't feel so alone. Many Eve Online players didn't think Eve would survive at all against big-name games like EA's Earth & Beyond or Blizzard's World of Warcraft. In fact, many predicted Eve would die within 2 years after launch which was in 2003. 11 years later...

Eve Online is now the proud holder of the title "Best MMO Economy in the Industry" and sees wars lasting for months and seeing single battles with as many as 3,000 ships duking it out in a single system at its climax. EA's Earth & Beyond died off while Guild Wars 2 admired Eve's economy enough to try to emulate it (though with some setbacks).

I'm not saying Legion and Valkyrie will reach that goal. I too have my doubts. I'm just saying that there is some hope and the odds aren't stacked against us. If you're right about the WoT universe, then that means there is currently no competition against the Eve Universe as no other company is doing the same. I predict that if CCP is ever able to succeed with this concept, then that will result in all the other companies following suit to try to compete by borrowing that concept.

Not true Mag's 256 player game mode was very structured.,objective based. Again something CCP
Couldn't code for Dust, also none of the roles are defined again coding not hardware. In the end it falls on CCP
Not the PS3 limitations.

DCUO contains a pretty impressive array of gear, has a crafting system that allows you to (somewhat) tweak the stats of each individual piece, and allows players to customize their appearance (so they can "wear" one piece while gaining the stats from another).

Unless they're trying to emulate a particular existing comic book character or displaying a specific, matched set, it's doubtful you'll ever see two identical characters.

It also has (I think) 12 different power sets, each with two different "trees" to pick and chose from, three different movement modes (also with a full set of power trees in each), a seperate "iconic" set of powers to add "a la carte", and somewhere around 20 different weapons to chose from, each with their own combo trees to spec into, and each and every one of these has it's own, unique animation.

Again, I doubt you'll ever see two characters with the same combination of powers/weapons/movement mode.

What you end up withis a nearly infinite number of possible combinations, both functionally AND cosmetically.

AND it's an MMORPG on top of that.

All on the PS3.

I'm gonna disagree with you there, like I said the underlying software architecture made it difficult to get maximum power from the hardware, but I have first hand experienced the power the PS3 hardware still possess.

However if you want to look at age, or more specifically aging, the PS3 is one of the longest running iterations of an electronic product in existence. When it was released it broke the standard power curve of being exponentially better than its predecessor, it practically knocked the PS2 out of the park.

Also I'd like you try and run The Last of Us on a 360, it wouldn't cope, yet the PS3 takes it in its, stride.

Destiny is going to be on PS3. That is all that needs to be said.

Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.

Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect.

Dust has something that none of those other games have, something that adds a f*ck ton of overhead - items, thousands of them.

Think about it, a unique selection of thousands of different items arranged in one of millions of configurations that affect your suit, one of hundreds, in slightly different ways depending on your exact configuration of skill points. All that stuff needs to be tracked, stored in memory and applied during battles - no other console game comes close in that respect.

Look at destiny, the version on the ps3 is not a dumbed down version of next gen. It will have all the same content as the ps4, but it won't be as pretty. Bungie conferred this.