You shouldn't be so quick to disregard sidearms. I take it you are one of those guys that fits a Prototype Light Weapon and a Militia SMG... Your loss.

I run Duvolle with Ishukone SMG prof 4. My point is Logi's cry foul they don't have one. As an FLF I do use mine, but rarely in the whole scheme of things. Logis aren't FLF's so why are they bitching about not having something that is rarely used.

And here we go with another one. You can check my post history in better topics with better arguments and even better counter arguments on why logi > assault isn't true, but I'll break it down like this: If you fit a logistics suit to be fully tanked at the cost of equipment, it's gimped down to a slightly tankier, more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, it might win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but Dust is a team based game, that's why we have squads and that's why we have heavy suits- to enforce the teamwork dynamic.

This logistics vs assault drama has long been resolved when the CaLogi was nerfed. Back then, the CaLogi could have the highest buffer through its racial bonus, while still having an insane fitting flexibility thanks to its larger CPU/PG pool. Shield vs armor imbalance at the time also made the CaLogi more dominant as well over the other logistics suits- in fact, the Amarr actually needed a buff at the time. The killer bees died with the CaLogi, but people still complain because they want to blame something for their own shortcomings because through mental gymnastics, they believe that they can do no wrong. I die to assaults all the time, but I don't cry about it on the forums because the suit doesn't make the man.

Are the assault's bonuses underwhelming? Depends on who you ask. Is there room for improvement through better assault bonuses? Ask any Gallente or Amarr assault if they shield tank. Scouts and heavies? Do I really need to ask? Is nerfing logistics the answer? Hell no! All it's going to do is screw over another niche role and if you look around, we have enough of that. I don't know what the other suits need, because frankly, I don't use them and it would be better for those users to look for ways to improve them instead of complaining about a role they don't play because they rather drag it down to their standards. This kind of nerf everything logic is like if I posted a topic to nerf all the other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks.

Well I am a logi and to avoid the inevitable nerf I propose we get sidearm only but amarr can carry two, the only other alternative I'd be happy with is one high or low slot resduction for Logis. Any other ideas?

Anyone got a reasonable small nerrf to avoid a big one please someone must have something, yes I am producing forum tears lap them up lol.

And here we go with another one. You can check my post history in better topics with better arguments and even better counter arguments on why logi > assault isn't true, but I'll break it down like this: If you fit a logistics suit to be fully tanked at the cost of equipment, it's gimped down to a slightly tankier, more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, it might win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but Dust is a team based game, that's why we have squads and that's why we have heavy suits- to enforce the teamwork dynamic.

This logistics vs assault drama has long been resolved when the CaLogi was nerfed. Back then, the CaLogi could have the highest buffer through its racial bonus, while still having an insane fitting flexibility thanks to its larger CPU/PG pool. Shield vs armor imbalance at the time also made the CaLogi more dominant as well over the other logistics suits- in fact, the Amarr actually needed a buff at the time. The killer bees died with the CaLogi, but people still complain because they want to blame something for their own shortcomings because through mental gymnastics, they believe that they can do no wrong. I die to assaults all the time, but I don't cry about it on the forums because the suit doesn't make the man.

Are the assault's bonuses underwhelming? Depends on who you ask. Is there room for improvement through better assault bonuses? Ask any Gallente or Amarr assault if they shield tank. Scouts and heavies? Do I really need to ask? Is nerfing logistics the answer? Hell no! All it's going to do is screw over another niche role and if you look around, we have enough of that. I don't know what the other suits need, because frankly, I don't use them and it would be better for those users to look for ways to improve them instead of complaining about a role they don't play because they rather drag it down to their standards. This kind of nerf everything logic is like if I posted a topic to nerf all the other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks.

I've read your posts, and yes they are well thought out. Please explain to me how a Minmatar Assault suit with 5 highs and 2 lows is more adept at its role than the callogi, gallogi, or minlogi? All of those have more cpu/pg and more slots with neglible difference in base HP. Say you run 3 complex shield ext., a dmg mod, and a recharger (or 4th extender) you are forced to run a cpu upgrade, and you have 1 more low slot. Do you run armor for hp? kin cat to capitalize on your speed? Not many options man. That's my beef, as min assault I can shield tank only. And while shield tanking, I can't run dmg mods which cripples my 'slaying' ability, thus crippling my WP output on a suit designed to kill for WP.

Ok so logibros, how would you feel if assaults had an extra equip slot?

Why not a damage mod fitting reduction?

Ok so logibros, how would you feel if assaults had an extra equip slot?

Ok so logibros, how would you feel if assaults had an extra equip slot?

Because dmg mods still eat up highs, used for shield ext. (my only tank). And to give you a better idea of where I am coming from, I see the drastic imbalance in terms of being able to produce WP on the battlefield. Not who has a better Kd/r or who's fitting is more ISK efficient. Logis have many options for WP production INCLUDING slayer. That niche is supposed to be occupied by the assault role, one would think at least. I would be ok with dropping the equip slot and picking up an extra low. But that's probably just me.

I had an idea last night.
It goes something like this:

A logistics suits main reason is equipment/support, with its secondary reason being slaying.
An assaults main reason is slaying, with the added bonus of an equipment slot.

So we need to define that.
My idea is that for a Logi to fit a Duvolle AR (92CPU/13PG), they need to first use at least 92CPU and 13PG worth of equipment, or their fit is invalid.
It needs to be simpler though.
It is generally accepted that 1PG is worth roughly 4CPU. With this in mind we can make a simple equation to determine the overall fitting cost of any given item.[xPG+(yCPU/4)], with this we can determine that the fitting cost of a Duvolle Assault Rifle is exactly 36.
So for a Logi to fit a Duvolle, they need to fit equipment that has a fitting cost of at least 36 for the suit to be valid.

Keep in ming that the opposite would be true for Assaults, so they can't fit an Proto Quantum Scanner, Boundless REs or Allotek Hives without having a good amount of weaponry first.

You shouldn't be so quick to disregard sidearms. I take it you are one of those guys that fits a Prototype Light Weapon and a Militia SMG... Your loss.

You're really not helping with that. You give QQ kittens an inch, they'll take a mile. They'll want sidearms nerfed next, then make reppers the logis primary weapon, and if that's enough, our walking animation will be us crawling backwards with our lubed yellow asses sticking up in the air. I like to use SMGs and pistols on some of my proto equipment fittings to free up some CPU/PG, but that doesn't mean I should have to 24/7, especially since the best defense/support weapon in the game is a light weapon.

You're really not helping with that. You give QQ kittens an inch, they'll take a mile. They'll want sidearms nerfed next, then make reppers the logis primary weapon, and if that's enough, our walking animation will be us crawling backwards with our lubed yellow asses sticking up in the air. I like to use SMGs and pistols on some of my proto equipment fittings to free up some CPU/PG, but that doesn't mean I should have to 24/7, especially since the best defense/support weapon in the game is a light weapon.

What happens if you make AR proficiency only available to the assault class? It would decrease the logi 'slayer' effectiveness, give the assault a 'competitive' advantage without having to change slots for either class. Would, in theory, help to streamline the roles.



Edit: The light weapon proficiencies, either available to assault or closed to logi.

The last thing we need is a convoluted system that screws over both classes from any kind of role diversity. You're going to **** off a lot of Gallente assaults that carry triage hives.

I know full well that those guys won't be too happy, but more importantly, the people that take a Logi suit and twist it into something it shouldnt be able to do will be livid.
The last thing I want is a nerf to logis, real logis. I couldn't care less if the 'Slayer Logis' get nerfed to hell because of this. They deserve it, in the same way that real logis deserve to not be nerfed because other people are exploiting the same suit that that use.
This would allow people that use the suit for equipment to continue doing so, while getting rid of the 'OP logis'.

If you just change the assaults racial bonuses to be weapon oriented, and change the logi suits so they can't leave their equip slots empty (just like other suits can't leave their weapon slots empty), problem solved.

Go ask an Amarr assault that uses a LR or ScR if they like that suit better than the logi. You'll get a lot of yes'. My LR is almost a different weapon on the amarr assault compared to my logi suit.

If you just change the assaults racial bonuses to be weapon oriented, and change the logi suits so they can't leave their equip slots empty (just like other suits can't leave their weapon slots empty), problem solved.

Go ask an Amarr assault that uses a LR or ScR if they like that suit better than the logi. You'll get a lot of yes'. My LR is almost a different weapon on the amarr assault compared to my logi suit.

If you just change the assaults racial bonuses to be weapon oriented, and change the logi suits so they can't leave their equip slots empty (just like other suits can't leave their weapon slots empty), problem solved.

Go ask an Amarr assault that uses a LR or ScR if they like that suit better than the logi. You'll get a lot of yes'. My LR is almost a different weapon on the amarr assault compared to my logi suit.

Give these assault dudetts a Dmg or RoF bonus per level, already!

All that the Slayer logis will do is equip 4 Compact hives and change one of their Proto modules to an Advanced one. Problem not solved.

I personally don't think the logi needs a nerf, I just think they need to be seen as the offensive units that they are, which their versatility makes them extremely deadly, kind of like a thunder and lighting combo with Assaults/Logis.

The rebranding would give room to create another suit design around support.

Logi's are also slower, and have a slower shield depleted recharge time. If they really kill you that much maybe you should try NOT running at everyone full speed to kill them. They have higher base health but lower regin.

Here's how I see it: If I'm an assault, I can go to the enemy team and take out all the objective defenders. But if I'm a logistics, I am better at defense. This is because I can set up triage hives for healing/ammo, put uplinks for support spawning, and because I only have one weapon, I can go all beast mode without cover when I'm fighting 7+ attackers.

They have lower base HP, but can be dealt with by stacking complex shields/armor.

Flux Grendades

And that's where balancing comes in, logistics are more reliant on what they equip over what their base stats are. It costs more and with the armor and (soonGäó) shield penalties, logis have to give more up just to be on the same level.

Excellent point, one I often forget. Having an extra low slot and the available cpu/pg to fit an armor module is not the same as having higher base eHP to start. The base eHP comes with zero penalty, whereas the armor plate slows you down. I don't have the numbers in front of me to do the maths but I suspect that an extra slot and much of the cpu/pg would disappear if you put a ferroscale plate in that slot with equivalent HP to make up for the difference in the base numbers. Sure, you could put a regular armor plate in and get more HP, but you sacrifice speed.

refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/)

Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.


Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip)

Assault:
Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330
Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330
Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285
Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360

Logistics:
Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP
Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP
Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP
Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP



Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades.

The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant.

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum.


Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role?

And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in ****. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!

The real thing that ticks me off is this.

These are assuming brick-tanked suits with an armor repper, at the proto level

Assault- 900 EHP

Heavy- 1500 EHP (from my knowledge this is the heavy'a HP ceiling.

Logistics- 1200 EHP

LOLWUT?

Why? "We are the support guys, so people try and kill us first." To my knowledge, you shoot the guys who are shooting back first in a shooter. Why? Because they are the people, y'know, SHOOTING YOU?

"But we lose a sidearm!" Yeah, that's what you lost FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT.

Not a 33% HP buff over the fellow med frames.

What did you trade for that? Marginal amount of speed? LAV. Ta da. Just like the heavies used to. And yes, I have seen this exact thing, and it's been happening.

Limiting the true-bros to a sidearm is very unfair, and reducing speed would really make the logi a slimmer heavy.

So, why not reduce your HP down to a reasonable level?

You still keep your defining traits, only your now as survivable as the people whom your helping, instead of the survivability of a heavy.

refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/)

Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.


Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip)

Assault:
Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330
Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330
Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285
Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360

Logistics:
Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP
Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP
Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP
Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP



Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades.

The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant.

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum.


Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role?

And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in ****. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!

I still dont understand why logis think they need all that HP whether it be through the extra slots or from the built in rep.
You're "support" or "combat medic" not frontline soldier. You're duty is to stand behind your guys whether it be medic duty or shooting over their shoulder, instead we have brickfit logis rushing forward and killing enemy assault players 1 by 1.

I can do my logi duties in a STD suit ffs, sure I do run into situations where I get fired upon but I'm usually at a relative safe distance or slightly behind more obvious threats like my teamates, not deep in the enemy hotzone looking to spill some blood.

Thats your OPINION of what the logi is supposed to do, if thats the case why give us a primary weapon? Please show me in writing where ccp has said logis are not supposed to kill, just imagine if Ratchet had that attitude Optimus wouldnt have made it to part 2.

Where in my post did I say logi arent suppose to kill? I described what logis arent suppose to do and thats stand in front of assaults because they make the better assaults than assaults. Hell I even wrote in the first paragraph that I shoot over my teamates shoulder and I have no problem getting kills. Next time you quote someone, read what he's saying.

When you implied we were supposed to stand behind assaults, quote is irrelevant, your implication agrees with the poster in trying to limit playstyle, which for me is killing. My point is stop saying what a logi is supposed to do or not do, let us do what we want.....

I feel good with the trade offs between Amarr Assault and Logistics since I use a Laser. I can't say much about the other suits, though.

Roll back dmg on all light weapons 10%, give assualt suits 2% dmg bonus per level. You're welcome.

best compromise i've seen is the following, stated by many individuals too numerous to mention:

Assault Suit Bonus: +2% damage bonus per level with "Hybrid" Light weapons (Hybrid or whatever the AR is, basically free complex at proto. Not limiting to hybrid/whatever would make Amarr Assault + AScr/Viziam = God Mode, so limited to non-duplicating bonuses like Lt DMG and racial Laser bonus.)

Assault suit Loses: No equipment slots on any racial suit (makes them a true slayer, no support options at all )


Logistics Suit Bonus: Leave alone (we rep everyone else, we gotta be able to keep our own armor up without drawing away more weapons. basically a free complex repper at proto)

Logistics Suit Loses: Must use all available equipment slots before fitting becomes valid (this forces a logi to carry items into battle that assist the team whether they want to or not, thus reducing the complaint that they are ignoring equipment slots to become Billy Badass.)

Both gain something useful. Trust me, most logi would consider leaving it alone to be gaining something. Both lose something, in the ability to effectively use the suit for more than it's intended purpose.

Do I have to ask you to read my post again?
My argument was that for some logis to bring up that the high HP is needed because they're always the first person to be targetted is counter productive of what they're doing on the battlefield which is supporting their teamates (and yes it specifically says logis play self sustaining combat and vital support role on the battlefield). Constantly bringing up "oh I'm a logi and I need all that HP to survive when helping my teamates" is stupid when they're exposing themselves to gunfire in the first place.
Its like someone saying they need legendary armor to take on a dragon just to pick flowers.

Agree with who? Did I quote OP and say that he was right? Nothing in my post specifically agrees with anyone. And what do you mean the quote doesnt matter? You're the one quoting me without reading you potato.

I dont care what you do or how you play, my post has nothing to do with you and your "killing playstyle".

i do believe I meet this criteria

A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.

first off I do indeed fill a vital tactical role on the battlefield in both a mechanical and medical means.

my triage hives are very useful at keeping people alive, and my mechanical RE's work wonders at supporting my team in a premptive manner, you see when the enemies are dead, I don't need to revive my useless blue dots.

I also fill a third role which is of vital importance to the team called, "killer of all red dots, who my useless blue dot team mates can't be bothered to kill", I know it's a tough position to fill but if I don't do it nobody will.

as a logi I believe it's my role to make sure the useless blue dots don't need to get their hands dirty with menial tasks like trying not to die, I'm like a butler who makes sure their time on the battlefield is as safe as possible.

The real thing that ticks me off is this.

These are assuming brick-tanked suits with an armor repper, at the proto level

Assault- 900 EHP

Heavy- 1500 EHP (from my knowledge this is the heavy'a HP ceiling.

Logistics- 1200 EHP

LOLWUT?

Why? "We are the support guys, so people try and kill us first." To my knowledge, you shoot the guys who are shooting back first in a shooter. Why? Because they are the people, y'know, SHOOTING YOU?

"But we lose a sidearm!" Yeah, that's what you lost FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT.

Not a 33% HP buff over the fellow med frames.

What did you trade for that? Marginal amount of speed? LAV. Ta da. Just like the heavies used to. And yes, I have seen this exact thing, and it's been happening.

Limiting the true-bros to a sidearm is very unfair, and reducing speed would really make the logi a slimmer heavy.

So, why not reduce your HP down to a reasonable level?

You still keep your defining traits, only your now as survivable as the people whom your helping, instead of the survivability of a heavy.

I know full well that those guys won't be too happy, but more importantly, the people that take a Logi suit and twist it into something it shouldnt be able to do will be livid.
The last thing I want is a nerf to logis, real logis. I couldn't care less if the 'Slayer Logis' get nerfed to hell because of this. They deserve it, in the same way that real logis deserve to not be nerfed because other people are exploiting the same suit that that use.
This would allow people that use the suit for equipment to continue doing so, while getting rid of the 'OP logis'.

We aint op, your skill is up......

Did you even read my suggestion? Stop being so defensive about everything everyone says...

Lol assault vs logistics argument still going on. How about scout vs assault. Assaults can match speed, and out damage with a sniper rifle, and have way better survivability than the scout for slightly less stamina and higher suit signature. If an assault can act as scout, a logi can be a slayer. It is up to the individual as to how and what mods they insert into their chosen suit, and that's how CCP envisioned it. Might as well stop QQing, the freedom of these suits are working as intended.

Go 20 million sp in proto scout, wait for months while ccp promises to fix your class a cqc weapons then Bi!TCH!
Lol I have a logi now.
Don't cry nerf be a man a save sp

You answered your own question, for most of us the logi, was a better all around choice, some people picked assault as it better fit their playstyle while others like my self felt we could kill better in a logi suit, but we all had the same choice, your also forgetting the assaults are faster, have more stamina, and faster stamina recovery, I know people in this game never consider all the differences in a suit or gun but those are important, so try to be more accurate, and choose a better suit in the future. I dont get what every1 is so but hurt about, do you as a shooter really think its the suit? Maybe you just suck at shooting?? And why do you all think you can define the playstyle of the logi user? I set my suit up to do what I enjoy to me the logi is a slayer that can ALSO carry extra equipment to assist the team, I carry 2 nanohives and a scanner, my slots are full, I tank low shields for damage mods so I can kill well also. Your saying that because I can carry more stuff then you I shouodnt fit my suit to its full potentional for mercing. These people who say im doing my job, these garbage ass logibros are usually the people pickimg you up in the midst of gunfire and watch you die again. If they want to staybehind a fat man with an hmg and stick their rep tool up his fairy amarr skirt fine, as for me, Ill scan sling some hives and slay, dont try to limit the ability of our suits because YOU think thats why you suck, get better, get over it, and get a new suit......

Thats your OPINION of what the logi is supposed to do, if thats the case why give us a primary weapon? Please show me in writing where ccp has said logis are not supposed to kill, just imagine if Ratchet had that attitude Optimus wouldnt have made it to part 2.

"mechanical and medical support..." its right on the suit description in game.

First of all I don't suck, anytime you would like to join me in game on my team or the other I'd be happy to show you. I'm also not trying to define the playstyle of the logi, CCP does that for me in the first couple paragraphs of the first post. You quoted it, you obviously read it. You, my man, as logistics are not 'supposed' to be a FLF. However if you choose to be, fundamentally you should not be able to have more EHP, and deal more dmg (with mods) than any equivalent Assault variant. Is it a problem with Logis? not necessarily. I think its a problem with the assault variant suits. Yes our suits have a few passive abilities, speed and stamina. Since the Min assault is the only one with any significant speed boost, I guess I'm allowed to cry, that logis get a free armor rep (min logi). YOur point is null and void, and you are an assault player in denial in a logi suit. Get over it.

True slayers don't use side arms hell most spam nades now days

First of all I don't suck, anytime you would like to join me in game on my team or the other I'd be happy to show you. I'm also not trying to define the playstyle of the logi, CCP does that for me in the first couple paragraphs of the first post. You quoted it, you obviously read it. You, my man, as logistics are not 'supposed' to be a FLF. However if you choose to be, fundamentally you should not be able to have more EHP, and deal more dmg (with mods) than any equivalent Assault variant. Is it a problem with Logis? not necessarily. I think its a problem with the assault variant suits. Yes our suits have a few passive abilities, speed and stamina. Since the Min assault is the only one with any significant speed boost, I guess I'm allowed to cry, that logis get a free armor rep (min logi). YOur point is null and void, and you are an assault player in denial in a logi suit. Get over it.

You do know that the Min Assault suit reps itself at 1 hp a sec so your arguement about logis built in armor rep is null and void. Just because YOU can't out perform some logis doesn't mean the suit is OP. It could mean that the person is just better than you.

And here we go with another one. You can check my post history in better topics with better arguments and even better counter arguments on why logi > assault isn't true, but I'll break it down like this: If you fit a logistics suit to be fully tanked at the cost of equipment, it's gimped down to a slightly tankier, more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, it might win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but Dust is a team based game, that's why we have squads and that's why we have heavy suits- to enforce the teamwork dynamic.

This logistics vs assault drama has long been resolved when the CaLogi was nerfed. Back then, the CaLogi could have the highest buffer through its racial bonus, while still having an insane fitting flexibility thanks to its larger CPU/PG pool. Shield vs armor imbalance at the time also made the CaLogi more dominant as well over the other logistics suits- in fact, the Amarr actually needed a buff at the time. The killer bees died with the CaLogi, but people still complain because they want to blame something for their own shortcomings because through mental gymnastics, they believe that they can do no wrong. I die to assaults all the time, but I don't cry about it on the forums because the suit doesn't make the man.

Are the assault's bonuses underwhelming? Depends on who you ask. Is there room for improvement through better assault bonuses? Ask any Gallente or Amarr assault if they shield tank. Scouts and heavies? Do I really need to ask? Is nerfing logistics the answer? Hell no! All it's going to do is screw over another niche role and if you look around, we have enough of that. I don't know what the other suits need, because frankly, I don't use them and it would be better for those users to look for ways to improve them instead of complaining about a role they don't play because they rather drag it down to their standards. This kind of nerf everything logic is like if I posted a topic to nerf all the other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks.

Why can't i like more than once?

Yeah this thread is getting a bit ridiculous, cosgar/smots jyu-ku/doshneil, thanks for your insight. IDIC, you just talk ****, none of it productive, you literally just QQ all day. Can't wait to find you in game.

You guys bring up some valid points though, if diversity is the direction CCP wants to go...Then I still want to know why there is even an assault variant in the game? The suit design is not optimized for assault or diversity. The logistics suit can do it better minus a sidearm. The logistics player can literally be a variant of any other role in the game, the assault suit is effectively a beefy scout.

The logistics role is about diversity, great. Go be a logirepper, logislayer, WPwhore, whatever. Why, in an FPS, have an assault role, that BASED ON WP production, cannot fulfill its primary function as well as another suit's non-traditional function?

THIS IS NOT A NERF LOGI THREAD.

Call me scrub, I suck, whatever you need to justify your premenstrual rage go for it. The fact remains that the proto logi suits, with their amount of highs and lows, are capable of running a suit based purely for assault, better than the assault variants given the same core proficiencies.

Yes, and its stupid. Defensive? Uhhh ya, im that slayer logi, and my way of mercing is under attack. You think im twisting the suit into something it shouldnt be and I call bullshit, I say the suit should be anything we make it, its part of what makes this game cool.... My name isnt just a random thought, its what I believe... IDIC, INFINITE DIVERSITY INFINITE COMBONATIONS, I apply that all across my belief spectrum and the video games that I find incorporate that make life fun. YOU and these are whinny fail hards are trying to LIMIT my choice in a way that makes me less effective in combat, I support NO NERFS EVER. If the assault suit gets a buff thats fine I love buffs, I can always get more sp and spec the new most combat effective suit, but the ability of my suit has already been nerfed 3 builds ago with 40 less cpu, and they changed my racial bonus, why? Because of terrible players like you. Then its the ar, now you scrubs think it was nerfed bc the stats for new guns come out with the ar range in print and its the same its always been but somehow the overpowered stupidity of this player base thinks it was changed. We were given 10percent damge buff after uprising and now ttk is to fast and they want 10percent less, the laser was op in chromosome, now its not but the only thing that changed was the laser got better, lmao, there never was a nerf but these dummys think there was. My scrambler pistol prof 5 has the highest dps in the GAME as A sidearm with hs damage doijg 400 or 450 percent, were are the nerf it threads? The problem is this is one of the softest, weakest, whinniest bunch of suburban spoiled ass white nerds in any game and because you suck so bad its always something else, its never just that you suck, something is op. Thats why this game does not progress linearly as it should its always trying to slow down and slide off into the nerf it ditch..... RRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

I don't see how the hybrid thing makes any sense. Why would Minmatar or Amarr suits have a bonus like that?

A 1% per level buff to light/sidearm weapon damage would be a great Assault bonus, no need for the Hybrid thing. I say 5% because a free enhanced Damage Mod that works for all weapons, and has no stacking penalties is arguably better than a regular complex Damage Mod.

The Racial Assault Bonii should affect that suits racial weapons. The Amarr and Minmatar ones are fine, the Gallente one is alright but could be a bit better, and the Caldari one needs to change because it doesn't even affect weaponry at all.

I've read your posts, and yes they are well thought out. Please explain to me how a Minmatar Assault suit with 5 highs and 2 lows is more adept at its role than the callogi, gallogi, or minlogi? All of those have more cpu/pg and more slots with neglible difference in base HP. Say you run 3 complex shield ext., a dmg mod, and a recharger (or 4th extender) you are forced to run a cpu upgrade, and you have 1 more low slot. Do you run armor for hp? kin cat to capitalize on your speed? Not many options man. That's my beef, as min assault I can shield tank only. And while shield tanking, I can't run dmg mods which cripples my 'slaying' ability, thus crippling my WP output on a suit designed to kill for WP.

Im good with ANY buff, more combat specific suit bonus for the assault is awesome, so are more logi specific bonuses. But let me be clear, logi is the most popular suit in this game, and for good reason, therefore it is most likely going to be in the hands of the most skilled shooter, this is true with all things in dust, including the ar, and damage mods. That being understood what we have left are the victims of those shooters here, in this forum crying....

Number 1 player in the game that I have talked plenty of **** about 13ear, Cal Logi, number 5 player Dia Callogi, thats 2 of the top 5, so it makes since that these are popular suits and people do what they see good players doing. Are you Mr LOTIS saying they would suck if it wasnt for that suit? Heres a better question FIZZER what are you saying we should be doing diffrently? If my equipment is filled, what am I supposed to do not load out my suit? And what do you think would happen if logis got nerfed? Suddenly you wouldnt suck? Magically your accuracy would catch up with your envy?

Look at the order of desired nerfs in the past 6 months, Callogi, then duvole, now logi again, everything the best shooters in the game use. Why is it always ****** players on here asking for nerfs? Where are the great players in this game? This LOTIS scrub says the player base wants a nerf? Wheres the base? A few dozen nobodys, how many of you even put any money in the game. Its garbage thats complaining because it smells its own odor, and its blameing it on the glade not being strong enough to cover it up.

Also theres a website out there called dust reports, great site, notice the sharp decline in the player base after every single nerf. Why? Because as shooters we want what we put the grind down for left alone, not destroyed for the inability of eve nerds. These people and their hardon for nerfs are hurting our game. Ccp let the shooters play and let the FODDER snipe. To all you that have a pair im calling on you to crush these posts,, slam them. These people are in corps with assault logi playstyles they need to be getting in their corp mates asses. We are the majority, lets make sure ccp knows how we feel. These posts do not accurately represent the game because the people who are happy are not here complaining... RRRRRAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH

IF IT WERE UP TO ME, NOBODY WOULD GET NERFED! BUT PEOPLE ARE CRYING FOR NERFS, AND IF WE CAN LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE HISTORY OF DUST, ITS THAT PEOPLE GETBNERFED WHEN OTHER CRY ABOUT THEM. HONESTLY THOUGH, NOBODY WOULD BE CRYING ABOUT LOGI SUITS IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU DIDNT EXPLOIT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE! My aiming is fine BTW. You don't get to insult someone that mains a Placon and still does better than you. Scrub.

ITT: The Good Idea Fairy runs rampant.

Convoluted solutions are inelegant and will come back to bite you in the ass. Can't we all just agree that it's ok for logis to kill things just as it's ok for assaults to drop links or hives? It's a matter of perception on a spectrum and people are apparently salty because logis kill things - tell me, what is the 'right' amount of killing that logis are allowed to do, if logis are better at killing and you want to kill why haven't you specced into logis, and why can a noob like me (Cal Logi primary...) still go 3.0+ kdr in pubs all day yesterday using a BPO fit Templar Assault / Templar Laser with 0 skills in either? Perhaps it's not just the suit...

best compromise i've seen is the following, stated by many individuals too numerous to mention:

Assault Suit Bonus: +2% damage bonus per level with "Hybrid" Light weapons (Hybrid or whatever the AR is, basically free complex at proto. Not limiting to hybrid/whatever would make Amarr Assault + AScr/Viziam = God Mode, so limited to non-duplicating bonuses like Lt DMG and racial Laser bonus.)

Assault suit Loses: No equipment slots on any racial suit (makes them a true slayer, no support options at all )


Logistics Suit Bonus: Leave alone (we rep everyone else, we gotta be able to keep our own armor up without drawing away more weapons. basically a free complex repper at proto)

Logistics Suit Loses: Must use all available equipment slots before fitting becomes valid (this forces a logi to carry items into battle that assist the team whether they want to or not, thus reducing the complaint that they are ignoring equipment slots to become Billy Badass.)

Both gain something useful. Trust me, most logi would consider leaving it alone to be gaining something. Both lose something, in the ability to effectively use the suit for more than it's intended purpose.

4 compact nano hives only uses the equivalent of one proto hive or less, so a smart logi slayer guys would just use that, go to the depot, switch out to uplink fits an good hive fits, dump those then back to a tanked fit with compacts, your still gonna have the same problem.

The real problem is AR tanked fits, I think is what people are moaning about, but if you take away light weapons a logo can't use a cqc like a sg? To me that's wrong.

I'm a scout that went logi, for the hack speed an team support for equipment an to be more usefull in pc, I can get in with my scout an switch at the depot spam equip than use either fit to defend, personally I'd say if you have a problem with logies destroy the depots then kill the logis, you don't wanna be a assault with no equip, no depot an a dead logi an no needle.
That logic would ruin the game.

WAIT!
Did I just notice at the top that you want a built in 10% damage mod to a assault, plus a 15% damage mod built into the gun,PLUS THE ABILITY TO PUT A 10% DAMAGE MOD ON BEFORE STACKING PENALTIES OCCUR!
ARE YOU FUKKING CRAZY!

Some people are not so good at maths. 2% is clearly too high.

Sounds like peeps are mad they didn't go logi because they didn't want to spec the equipment, now they see that a logi can have more HP which it should an it can rep itself an have all it needed to have lone wolf abilities an stack more damage which it should so that if it's team drops it can fight back to needle a teammate then pick up the next an essentially they can be the life force of the squad.

An that's how it should be

The only reason I made it a specific bonus is because it would still give the Amarr a bonus (they can use an smg without losing the dmg bonus they would've only gotten with the pistol), but they wouldn't get 2 free complex mod on the laser weapons. That is an appropriate tradeoff for Amarr, and if you were using laser-based weaponry you should be using Amarr exclusivly anyway.

I also understand it negates those who use MD as primary, but they seem to be doing just fine as is, and it would still boost their sidearm should they smg it. I know this is not optimal for all playstyles, but I think it would give bonuses to all suits without making 1 suit OP.

I also hadn't seriously considered making it 1%, thus giving an adv-level bonus, because I wanted to make it tier equivalent to the Logi bonus. So the 2 considerations I had most were Amarr Assault becoming the new OP rage because of 2 free complex laser mods (due to racial bonus already in place) and keeping equivalent tier bonus for Logi v Assault so no chance to say 1 got better bonus than the other.

And on that same token, assaults get access to more weapon variety the logistics. How many logis do you see with lasers, TAC ARs, or swarms?

*raises hand*

I use laz0rs reasonably often, swarms too, though the swarm is not always on a logi suit, admittedly. But, I have the advantage of a sidearm, so...

So in the name of objectivity I went and purchased some neo assault ck0 suits, heres what I put on, 3 complex shields, 1 complex light damage mod, 1 complex armor plate, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 basic armor repaier, a gek, std sub, m1, std hive...... 493 shield 419 armor, now at first this is very close to my slayer logi fit, but on it I can run the duvolle and a core, however if you take away the repper you can make almost exactly the same fit, which means he relies on the LOGI. XD Now in staying with what I have lets continue to compare these 2 builds so I didnt get the duvolle or core, but whats the trade off? So I could run faster, great for quickly flanking, I have my sub, yay, more stamina, and more stamina recovery, faster shield recharge, more shield efficacy, and I went 30 and 9 with it. So can it be made exactly like my suit? No it cant but I cant make my suit exactly like this neo either...... If you gave this suit more cpu pg then it could be identicial, plus be able to do all that other stuff I said and have a sidearm, what would the balance be then?

I must admit I'm not completely understanding what you are saying here. Maybe if you listed both suits individually and stated why you thought the assault was worse it might be more clear to me. I might argue you are downplaying the advantage of better speed and shield recharge, for example.

Also, did you account for bonuses? Meaning, if you bought the 'neo' version you obviously don't have cal assault up to level 5 - an ISK suit which you have maxed out the bonus at level 5 can't be compared directly to an aurum suit which you have at level 3, for example.

I ask because if you had the maximum shield bonus on the assault you might consider losing the damage mod for another complex shield and then you (I could certainly be wrong) might have enough CPU/pg savings for the duvolles, which is more or less a GEK with a damage mod, plus have more shields. With a Caldari assault (disclaimer: which I only have at lvl 3 and don't use much anymore) I assume max shield tanking would be the most effective fitting. It's not like the Amarr, where you can use the damage mod as as way of pseudo-armor tanking with highs.

*Puts on his Gallente Assualt suit, then looks over at the Logi suit bonus. Cries.*
Seriously, if my suit is expected to be on the front line favoring armor builds, why in the hell am I getting a shield-based bonus?! Give Gallente Assault the logi armor rep bonus and I'd be sooo happy.

Would make more sense to give it a similar bonus to armor plates as the cal assault has to shield extenders. Keep it consistent across races.

Why not a damage mod fitting reduction?

Hey I like that, I could even go for that and a weapon bonus fitting reduction. Honestly the only thing I find wrong with my assault suit is not having enough cpu pg to bring out the suits full potential.

This came up in another assault vs logi topic but why not base everything on fitting reductions:

Assault - Weapon Mods
Scouts - Biotics and Electronics
Heavies- Armor and Shields
Logistics - Equipment

Make these a third suit bonus, lower the CPU/PG on logistics, and give scouts a second equipment slot. There, I just re-balanced Dust 514's suits.

The only reduction I wouldnt cry over is if cpu was lowered to match my cal logi...

WAIT!
Did I just notice at the top that you want a built in 10% damage mod to a assault, plus a 15% damage mod built into the gun,PLUS THE ABILITY TO PUT A 10% DAMAGE MOD ON BEFORE STACKING PENALTIES OCCUR!
ARE YOU FUKKING CRAZY!

if you really need that extra 80 HP then lol. ok.

Fact is, the logi is a better defender than the assault suit, but it isn't as good at 'assaulting' because it doesn't have a backup weapon and it's slow. Yeah, a tanked logi will beat an assault in a straight up spreadsdheet battle, but an assault who plays like an assault can outmanuever long enough to get that 0.1 second headstart and nullify any 80hp advantage a logi may have.

Plus, assaults get more relevant bonuses to their suits.

Deal with it or play CoD.

Simple straightforward fix, that no-one but the suit-abusers should be upset about:

Logistics suits are supposed to be about equipment -> supporting the team.
That's why they have 2 Eq slots. Great.

Having high-power and low-power slots does not contribute towards this supposed role.
The fact that logis can just fill up with shields and armor, giving them more 'tank' than a proto assault, is the thing being abused here. So.. directly attack the problem. Take away that ability :: take away slots.

Progression of slot counts from basic logic to proto, goes 4, 6, 9 lolwhut?

So... take that away. make it 3, 4, 5
Or for the super whiners, 4, 5,6

Problem solved, no more super-OP-tank logis, and without affecting other classes with ludicrous proposals like "make eq take even more power "

The real thing that ticks me off is this.

These are assuming brick-tanked suits with an armor repper, at the proto level

Assault- 900 EHP

Heavy- 1500 EHP (from my knowledge this is the heavy'a HP ceiling.

Logistics- 1200 EHP

LOLWUT?

Why? "We are the support guys, so people try and kill us first." To my knowledge, you shoot the guys who are shooting back first in a shooter. Why? Because they are the people, y'know, SHOOTING YOU?

"But we lose a sidearm!" Yeah, that's what you lost FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT.

Not a 33% HP buff over the fellow med frames.

What did you trade for that? Marginal amount of speed? LAV. Ta da. Just like the heavies used to. And yes, I have seen this exact thing, and it's been happening.

Limiting the true-bros to a sidearm is very unfair, and reducing speed would really make the logi a slimmer heavy.

So, why not reduce your HP down to a reasonable level?

You still keep your defining traits, only your now as survivable as the people whom your helping, instead of the survivability of a heavy.

All mods you are referring to are available to all types of suits, so yes, I feel that the assault should have a complex dmg mod as a bonus for that kit that isn't available to other fits. It would mean an assault would do the job an assault is supposed to do.

To the person above you, I would also like to say that all equip mentioned above must be different. You cannot rock 4 militia nano and pass. But if you wanted to use 4 different hives, then by all means go after it. That will prevent someone from doing just as you mentioned.

I run Duvolle with Ishukone SMG prof 4. My point is Logi's cry foul they don't have one. As an FLF I do use mine, but rarely in the whole scheme of things. Logis aren't FLF's so why are they bitching about not having something that is rarely used.

The problem here is not just what YOU think assaults are supposed to do but how well they are supposed to do it compared to a logi, neither of these things are true herein lies the crux of the problem, assaults are not supposed to be dominant in killing logis, thats a mistake you made when picking your suit, you didnt study the game, you looked at a word. Assaults have certain things they do better, but they dont just get to own a logi, see logis know better. Lol I mean do you think you should just get to own heavies? They are not named assaults, yet they will kill you with ease up close. The suits could be tweaked, bonuses adjusted, but ultimately the problem is your view of how the dynamic between logis and assaults should exist. Heres the deal, your a flanker, a beefy scout, get over it. Btw heavies dont have nearly the amount of damage mods offered to them either, nor do scouts, so should we give the heavies like 3 more high slots as well?

What I hate about these threads is they never account for the desire of player creativity and adaptability, they almost always look to restrain, to hold back, to hinder, cap, stop, lock, and these things push us more and more into very specific playstyles instead of allowing for new and crazy combonations that come from, the freedom of being able to pair anything and everything. Hell Id love to see multiple suit bonuese that could be picked from a list and added to a certain fit just for creating even better playstyles. I want more choice, more freedom, not less, damn cant you see how this hurts the game with nerf its?

What I hate about these threads is they never account for the desire of player creativity and adaptability, they almost always look to restrain, to hold back, to hinder, cap, stop, lock, and these things push us more and more into very specific playstyles instead of allowing for new and crazy combonations that come from, the freedom of being able to pair anything and everything. Hell Id love to see multiple suit bonuese that could be picked from a list and added to a certain fit just for creating even better playstyles. I want more choice, more freedom, not less, damn cant you see how this hurts the game with nerf its?

the problem is that most people only see the diversity in logi suit users. Most "logi" probably don't even logi, it just lets them do what they want easier due to the suit space. I want there to be diversity, but I also don't want a playstyle that uses a suit to it's intended advantages (logi get extra equip for a reason) to get a nerf because of a vocal minority who thinks it is unfair. If your goal is to kill things, then you should be an assault-based character and put on what you wish. You wanna play support, you should use a logi-based suit. I think that each suit has advantages, but only the logi is obvious to everyone. I just wanted to give someone an obvious reason to take an assault over logi and quit giving us logi a bad name.

I choose logi bc I can kill well and carry extra crap, how simple is that, so did every other logi, anything else is irrelevant.

Sorry man, but you don't leave out much of what makes the suit and then drop the mic and say the discussion is over logi is obviously superior to assault. Next time you do such side by side comparisons don't leave out speed (sprint and regular), stamina, shield regen, armor regen (in the rare case it applies), stamina regeneration.

I'm still not sure assault suit users have a legitimate gripe (my minmatar assault alt has a better KDR than my Amarr logi and has half the SP of my Amarr logi too) but even if you have a complaint stick I would humbly suggest you frame it with "assaults need better suit bonuses because of X" or "assaults need more CPU/PG because of Y" buffs are better than nerfs my friend.

But I still think assaults are better slayers than 90% of us logis anyway.

Oh and CCP descriptions never prove anything other than the disconnect between who writes the description and who makes the game. I'd swear the plasma cannon has something about anti-vehicle in it's description afterall

Logistics =/= medics.

Think of them as combat engineers. It makes sense that they should be able to hold their own in combat.

The Amarr assault vs the amarr logi has the best dynamic between the two classes IMO. One isn't better than the other, even at combat, they just fill different roles in the combat. The assault has a bonus that drives the damage potential of laser weaponry through the roof, but the amarr logis are arguably the best armor tanking suit in the game and has equipment to support the team.

Running the LR on an assault suit lets me wreak havoc on enemies due to the insane damage I can get up to with the heat reduction bonus, but running the LR on a logi suit lets me provide long range support from a position that has an uplink, a hive and I can scan out targets at the cost of not being able to use the LR to it's full potential.

A better assault suit spec would do wonders for fixing any complaints about the logi suit.

But I sure as hell don't buy into the idea that the logi shouldn't be a combat worthy suit. It kinda feels like people are wanting to nerf logis for easy kills.

Reading this thread, I actually like the idea of logi's getting sidearms, if only for the reason of getting the 90% of the population who currently use logistics suits OUT of those logistics suits. I mean seriously, the logi spam is annoying as ****, I joined this game when you would be lucky to see a single logi on the field, now everyone and their mother is using them.

Reading this thread, I actually like the idea of logi's getting sidearms, if only for the reason of getting the 90% of the population who currently use logistics suits OUT of those logistics suits. I mean seriously, the logi spam is annoying as ****, I joined this game when you would be lucky to see a single logi on the field, now everyone and their mother is using them.

I have always been a scout an my secondary choice is logi.
I chrome it had a real purpose because heavies were amazing! They travelled in pairs, assaults carried needles an logis supplied needles, rep tools links an hives, an a lot of scouts carried either a needle, links or a rep tool, because scouts had enough HP to stay close to a squad.

Now!

THE GAME CHANGED

1. HEAVIES SUCK AND ARE NOT FEARED= squads leave th behind an don't lead with them Infront like before.
Used to be a heavy leading the pack, logistics getting guardian points , assaults surrounding the logi an a scout orbiting the pack like the moon.

2. Needles suck, because noobs do the quick 60 militia point thing in a fire fight so now nobody trusts it they respawn ASAP .

3. Logies cant see your Health bar so they carry links an rep hives for you to monitor your own life an give you a spot to spawn. So just cuz they have pro 5 on a gun an can stack HP an damage an equip that is the game makers fault for removing the HP bar.
Their is less risk involved an the logi is now forced to lead than follow because heavies drop to fast the heavy now backs the logi

4. Scouts had a equipment and slot removed, they have no specific role other than lone wolfing it away from danger an the CPU hardly allows room for links because their scanning is hardly better than anyone else's so they need a scanner.

Fix this don't nerf anything!

You left one thing out that changed since the precious, closed and open betas, REAL SHOOTERS GOT IN YOUR GAME, and the eve nerds and their qqing alts started realizing how much they sucked compared to shooters of my age and generation, the shooters of quake, doom, halo, cod, arrived and you nerds with your spreadsheets and your domimation of the cpm with people playing eve for 9 years like JENZA who are not shooters have been using that influence to continue to nerf whatever makes them sad, everytime they face off in combat, thats why when you have people come up with great combos like 2 bad ass minjas running together with dual core flaylocks and owning, they cried foul, and nerf because the chaos they created disrupted the set piece warfare mentality that was carried over from eve, which is beautiful and free and nerfed not because it was op but because these glorified pc RISK players couldnt figure out how to counter the terrible tandem minja flaylocks. You people who cried about that are the same nubs crying now, the answer is still the same you suck and any variation of this shooter will still make you suck. Even with aa and crazy hit detection still here you are crying again...... rrrrrraaaaaggggghhhhhhh And I dont care about people named LOGI BRO with his 9000000000 likes trying to define what a logi suit is or isnt, the suit is what we make it if your happy with your tool stuck up a amarrs skirt then do it you failhard but dont come here and tell a grown ass man thats spent hundreds of dollars on this game how to play his suit or his style, there are plenty of games that limit and define your role with no ability to deviate from that GO THERE..

You left one thing out that changed since the precious, closed and open betas, REAL SHOOTERS GOT IN YOUR GAME, and the eve nerds and their qqing alts started realizing how much they sucked compared to shooters of my age and generation, the shooters of quake, doom, halo, cod, arrived and you nerds with your spreadsheets and your domimation of the cpm with people playing eve for 9 years like JENZA who are not shooters have been using that influence to continue to nerf whatever makes them sad, everytime they face off in combat, thats why when you have people come up with great combos like 2 bad ass minjas running together with dual core flaylocks and owning, they cried foul, and nerf because the chaos they created disrupted the set piece warfare mentality that was carried over from eve, which is beautiful and free and nerfed not because it was op but because these glorified pc RISK players couldnt figure out how to counter the terrible tandem minja flaylocks. You people who cried about that are the same nubs crying now, the answer is still the same you suck and any variation of this shooter will still make you suck. Even with aa and crazy hit detection still here you are crying again...... rrrrrraaaaaggggghhhhhhh And I dont care about people named LOGI BRO with his 9000000000 likes trying to define what a logi suit is or isnt, the suit is what we make it if your happy with your tool stuck up a amarrs skirt then do it you failhard but dont come here and tell a grown ass man thats spent hundreds of dollars on this game how to play his suit or his style, there are plenty of games that limit and define your role with no ability to deviate from that GO THERE..

PS if I said something that offended your feminine spoiled ass white suburban nerd disposition im in game right now playing caldari fw suit up, and clamp down your vagina

I would take cod out of that list of shooters you gave if you want people to take you seriously.

Make logis fill their equip slots, getting really tired of seeing proto gal logis with 3 dmg mods a duvolle and 800+ hp.

Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/)

Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.


Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip)

Assault:
Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330
Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330
Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285
Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360

Logistics:
Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP
Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP
Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP
Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP



Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades.

The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant.

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum.


Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role?

And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in ****. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!

What I hate about these threads is they never account for the desire of player creativity and adaptability, they almost always look to restrain, to hold back, to hinder, cap, stop, lock, and these things push us more and more into very specific playstyles instead of allowing for new and crazy combonations that come from, the freedom of being able to pair anything and everything. Hell Id love to see multiple suit bonuese that could be picked from a list and added to a certain fit just for creating even better playstyles. I want more choice, more freedom, not less, damn cant you see how this hurts the game with nerf its?

This is what you want, and in this games current build your Logi can give you just that. Literally, you can play any playstyle you can be a better scout than a scout, you can tank like a heavy with more speed, you can kill like an assault with more eHP, you can even be a true logi! That's great. In a game that is not centered around kD/R, but rather isk and WP; you have many many options available to you. To receive more WP and ISK, I don't understand why a logi suit, can (in theory) be equipped with a better slot loadout for slaying (regardless of racial & suit bonuses). I understand speed is an advantage, as CALLOGI you have 4 lows, throw a kincat on and the speed is negated. As minmatard if I run kincat then all I can run is a cpu enhancer and that's it. Speed isn't a big factor in slaying, its a bigger factor in playstyle.
Which is my last point, everyone on this thread has their PLAYSTYLE, I get it. Some think logis should be jack of all trades, others think they should run around with a nerf gun and paperwads for grenades. All I'm saying is I simply don't agree that CCP has done a good job balancing their medium classes.

I think some people confused this thread with a logi nerf. I DO NOT WANT TO NERF LOGIS, if anything give the minmatar assault 1 low slot.

IDIC has a point....the more diversity in a game, the better. I'm all for it. In the current build at least the minmatar assault could use some love (I think all assault suits).