Give these assault dudetts a Dmg or RoF bonus per level, already!

All that the Slayer logis will do is equip 4 Compact hives and change one of their Proto modules to an Advanced one. Problem not solved.

I personally don't think the logi needs a nerf, I just think they need to be seen as the offensive units that they are, which their versatility makes them extremely deadly, kind of like a thunder and lighting combo with Assaults/Logis.

The rebranding would give room to create another suit design around support.

Logi's are also slower, and have a slower shield depleted recharge time. If they really kill you that much maybe you should try NOT running at everyone full speed to kill them. They have higher base health but lower regin.

Here's how I see it: If I'm an assault, I can go to the enemy team and take out all the objective defenders. But if I'm a logistics, I am better at defense. This is because I can set up triage hives for healing/ammo, put uplinks for support spawning, and because I only have one weapon, I can go all beast mode without cover when I'm fighting 7+ attackers.

They have lower base HP, but can be dealt with by stacking complex shields/armor.

Flux Grendades

And that's where balancing comes in, logistics are more reliant on what they equip over what their base stats are. It costs more and with the armor and (soonGäó) shield penalties, logis have to give more up just to be on the same level.

Excellent point, one I often forget. Having an extra low slot and the available cpu/pg to fit an armor module is not the same as having higher base eHP to start. The base eHP comes with zero penalty, whereas the armor plate slows you down. I don't have the numbers in front of me to do the maths but I suspect that an extra slot and much of the cpu/pg would disappear if you put a ferroscale plate in that slot with equivalent HP to make up for the difference in the base numbers. Sure, you could put a regular armor plate in and get more HP, but you sacrifice speed.

refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/)

Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.


Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip)

Assault:
Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330
Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330
Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285
Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360

Logistics:
Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP
Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP
Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP
Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP



Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades.

The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant.

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum.


Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role?

And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in ****. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!

The real thing that ticks me off is this.

These are assuming brick-tanked suits with an armor repper, at the proto level

Assault- 900 EHP

Heavy- 1500 EHP (from my knowledge this is the heavy'a HP ceiling.

Logistics- 1200 EHP

LOLWUT?

Why? "We are the support guys, so people try and kill us first." To my knowledge, you shoot the guys who are shooting back first in a shooter. Why? Because they are the people, y'know, SHOOTING YOU?

"But we lose a sidearm!" Yeah, that's what you lost FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT.

Not a 33% HP buff over the fellow med frames.

What did you trade for that? Marginal amount of speed? LAV. Ta da. Just like the heavies used to. And yes, I have seen this exact thing, and it's been happening.

Limiting the true-bros to a sidearm is very unfair, and reducing speed would really make the logi a slimmer heavy.

So, why not reduce your HP down to a reasonable level?

You still keep your defining traits, only your now as survivable as the people whom your helping, instead of the survivability of a heavy.

refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/)

Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.


Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip)

Assault:
Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330
Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330
Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285
Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360

Logistics:
Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP
Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP
Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP
Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP



Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades.

The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant.

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum.


Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role?

And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in ****. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!

I still dont understand why logis think they need all that HP whether it be through the extra slots or from the built in rep.
You're "support" or "combat medic" not frontline soldier. You're duty is to stand behind your guys whether it be medic duty or shooting over their shoulder, instead we have brickfit logis rushing forward and killing enemy assault players 1 by 1.

I can do my logi duties in a STD suit ffs, sure I do run into situations where I get fired upon but I'm usually at a relative safe distance or slightly behind more obvious threats like my teamates, not deep in the enemy hotzone looking to spill some blood.

Thats your OPINION of what the logi is supposed to do, if thats the case why give us a primary weapon? Please show me in writing where ccp has said logis are not supposed to kill, just imagine if Ratchet had that attitude Optimus wouldnt have made it to part 2.

Where in my post did I say logi arent suppose to kill? I described what logis arent suppose to do and thats stand in front of assaults because they make the better assaults than assaults. Hell I even wrote in the first paragraph that I shoot over my teamates shoulder and I have no problem getting kills. Next time you quote someone, read what he's saying.

When you implied we were supposed to stand behind assaults, quote is irrelevant, your implication agrees with the poster in trying to limit playstyle, which for me is killing. My point is stop saying what a logi is supposed to do or not do, let us do what we want.....

I feel good with the trade offs between Amarr Assault and Logistics since I use a Laser. I can't say much about the other suits, though.

Roll back dmg on all light weapons 10%, give assualt suits 2% dmg bonus per level. You're welcome.

best compromise i've seen is the following, stated by many individuals too numerous to mention:

Assault Suit Bonus: +2% damage bonus per level with "Hybrid" Light weapons (Hybrid or whatever the AR is, basically free complex at proto. Not limiting to hybrid/whatever would make Amarr Assault + AScr/Viziam = God Mode, so limited to non-duplicating bonuses like Lt DMG and racial Laser bonus.)

Assault suit Loses: No equipment slots on any racial suit (makes them a true slayer, no support options at all )


Logistics Suit Bonus: Leave alone (we rep everyone else, we gotta be able to keep our own armor up without drawing away more weapons. basically a free complex repper at proto)

Logistics Suit Loses: Must use all available equipment slots before fitting becomes valid (this forces a logi to carry items into battle that assist the team whether they want to or not, thus reducing the complaint that they are ignoring equipment slots to become Billy Badass.)

Both gain something useful. Trust me, most logi would consider leaving it alone to be gaining something. Both lose something, in the ability to effectively use the suit for more than it's intended purpose.

Do I have to ask you to read my post again?
My argument was that for some logis to bring up that the high HP is needed because they're always the first person to be targetted is counter productive of what they're doing on the battlefield which is supporting their teamates (and yes it specifically says logis play self sustaining combat and vital support role on the battlefield). Constantly bringing up "oh I'm a logi and I need all that HP to survive when helping my teamates" is stupid when they're exposing themselves to gunfire in the first place.
Its like someone saying they need legendary armor to take on a dragon just to pick flowers.

Agree with who? Did I quote OP and say that he was right? Nothing in my post specifically agrees with anyone. And what do you mean the quote doesnt matter? You're the one quoting me without reading you potato.

I dont care what you do or how you play, my post has nothing to do with you and your "killing playstyle".

i do believe I meet this criteria

A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.

first off I do indeed fill a vital tactical role on the battlefield in both a mechanical and medical means.

my triage hives are very useful at keeping people alive, and my mechanical RE's work wonders at supporting my team in a premptive manner, you see when the enemies are dead, I don't need to revive my useless blue dots.

I also fill a third role which is of vital importance to the team called, "killer of all red dots, who my useless blue dot team mates can't be bothered to kill", I know it's a tough position to fill but if I don't do it nobody will.

as a logi I believe it's my role to make sure the useless blue dots don't need to get their hands dirty with menial tasks like trying not to die, I'm like a butler who makes sure their time on the battlefield is as safe as possible.

The real thing that ticks me off is this.

These are assuming brick-tanked suits with an armor repper, at the proto level

Assault- 900 EHP

Heavy- 1500 EHP (from my knowledge this is the heavy'a HP ceiling.

Logistics- 1200 EHP

LOLWUT?

Why? "We are the support guys, so people try and kill us first." To my knowledge, you shoot the guys who are shooting back first in a shooter. Why? Because they are the people, y'know, SHOOTING YOU?

"But we lose a sidearm!" Yeah, that's what you lost FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT.

Not a 33% HP buff over the fellow med frames.

What did you trade for that? Marginal amount of speed? LAV. Ta da. Just like the heavies used to. And yes, I have seen this exact thing, and it's been happening.

Limiting the true-bros to a sidearm is very unfair, and reducing speed would really make the logi a slimmer heavy.

So, why not reduce your HP down to a reasonable level?

You still keep your defining traits, only your now as survivable as the people whom your helping, instead of the survivability of a heavy.

I know full well that those guys won't be too happy, but more importantly, the people that take a Logi suit and twist it into something it shouldnt be able to do will be livid.
The last thing I want is a nerf to logis, real logis. I couldn't care less if the 'Slayer Logis' get nerfed to hell because of this. They deserve it, in the same way that real logis deserve to not be nerfed because other people are exploiting the same suit that that use.
This would allow people that use the suit for equipment to continue doing so, while getting rid of the 'OP logis'.