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Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 41	Posted - 2013.10.26 00:45:00 - [1] - Quote refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/) Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield. Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support. Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip) Assault: Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330 Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330 Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285 Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360 Logistics: Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ***** kidding me? My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades. The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant. Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out. Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum. Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role? And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in **. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 43	Posted - 2013.10.26 01:02:00 - [2] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: You shouldn't be so quick to disregard sidearms. I take it you are one of those guys that fits a Prototype Light Weapon and a Militia SMG... Your loss. I run Duvolle with Ishukone SMG prof 4. My point is Logi's cry foul they don't have one. As an FLF I do use mine, but rarely in the whole scheme of things. Logis aren't FLF's so why are they bitching about not having something that is rarely used.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 43	Posted - 2013.10.26 01:13:00 - [3] - Quote I am not in favor of a nerf for either class. But I think the racial and suit bonuses could be reworked. Give Assault either a boost to Damage with the suit bonus, or a 3-5% dmg reduction bonus on the assault suit. Just something to either increase dmg output to balance out the WP earnings or the defense to allow them to be more effective than the logi at front line defense.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 43	Posted - 2013.10.26 01:22:00 - [4] - Quote Cosgar wrote: And here we go with another one. You can check my post history in better topics with better arguments and even better counter arguments on why logi > assault isn't true, but I'll break it down like this: If you fit a logistics suit to be fully tanked at the cost of equipment, it's gimped down to a slightly tankier, more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, it might win a couple of 1v1 engagements, but Dust is a team based game, that's why we have squads and that's why we have heavy suits- to enforce the teamwork dynamic. This logistics vs assault drama has long been resolved when the CaLogi was nerfed. Back then, the CaLogi could have the highest buffer through its racial bonus, while still having an insane fitting flexibility thanks to its larger CPU/PG pool. Shield vs armor imbalance at the time also made the CaLogi more dominant as well over the other logistics suits- in fact, the Amarr actually needed a buff at the time. The killer bees died with the CaLogi, but people still complain because they want to blame something for their own shortcomings because through mental gymnastics, they believe that they can do no wrong. I die to assaults all the time, but I don't cry about it on the forums because the suit doesn't make the man. Are the assault's bonuses underwhelming? Depends on who you ask. Is there room for improvement through better assault bonuses? Ask any Gallente or Amarr assault if they shield tank. Scouts and heavies? Do I really need to ask? Is nerfing logistics the answer? Hell no! All it's going to do is screw over another niche role and if you look around, we have enough of that. I don't know what the other suits need, because frankly, I don't use them and it would be better for those users to look for ways to improve them instead of complaining about a role they don't play because they rather drag it down to their standards. This kind of nerf everything logic is like if I posted a topic to nerf all the other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks. I've read your posts, and yes they are well thought out. Please explain to me how a Minmatar Assault suit with 5 highs and 2 lows is more adept at its role than the callogi, gallogi, or minlogi? All of those have more cpu/pg and more slots with neglible difference in base HP. Say you run 3 complex shield ext., a dmg mod, and a recharger (or 4th extender) you are forced to run a cpu upgrade, and you have 1 more low slot. Do you run armor for hp? kin cat to capitalize on your speed? Not many options man. That's my beef, as min assault I can shield tank only. And while shield tanking, I can't run dmg mods which cripples my 'slaying' ability, thus crippling my WP output on a suit designed to kill for WP.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 43	Posted - 2013.10.26 01:24:00 - [5] - Quote Ok so logibros, how would you feel if assaults had an extra equip slot?
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 44	Posted - 2013.10.26 01:36:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Ok so logibros, how would you feel if assaults had an extra equip slot? Why not a damage mod fitting reduction? Because dmg mods still eat up highs, used for shield ext. (my only tank). And to give you a better idea of where I am coming from, I see the drastic imbalance in terms of being able to produce WP on the battlefield. Not who has a better Kd/r or who's fitting is more ISK efficient. Logis have many options for WP production INCLUDING slayer. That niche is supposed to be occupied by the assault role, one would think at least. I would be ok with dropping the equip slot and picking up an extra low. But that's probably just me.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 44	Posted - 2013.10.26 02:07:00 - [7] - Quote What happens if you make AR proficiency only available to the assault class? It would decrease the logi 'slayer' effectiveness, give the assault a 'competitive' advantage without having to change slots for either class. Would, in theory, help to streamline the roles.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 47	Posted - 2013.10.26 09:58:00 - [8] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/) Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield. Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support. Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip) Assault: Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330 Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330 Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285 Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360 Logistics: Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ***** kidding me? My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades. The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant. Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out. Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum. Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role? And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in **. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots! Go 20 million sp in proto scout, wait for months while ccp promises to fix your class a cqc weapons then Bi!TCH! Lol I have a logi now. Don't cry nerf be a man a save sp Read the rest of the thread, I'm not calling for a nerf. I've stated that over and over in this thread alone. I'm looking for an actual answer as to why the logistics suit in its current form can outperform the assault variant in its current form, in terms of WP production.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 48	Posted - 2013.10.26 10:10:00 - [9] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/) Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield. Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support. Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip) Assault: Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330 Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330 Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285 Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360 Logistics: Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ***** kidding me? My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades. The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant. Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out. Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum. Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role? And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in **. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots! You answered your own question, for most of us the logi, was a better all around choice, some people picked assault as it better fit their playstyle while others like my self felt we could kill better in a logi suit, but we all had the same choice, your also forgetting the assaults are faster, have more stamina, and faster stamina recovery, I know people in this game never consider all the differences in a suit or gun but those are important, so try to be more accurate, and choose a better suit in the future. I dont get what every1 is so but hurt about, do you as a shooter really think its the suit? Maybe you just suck at shooting?? And why do you all think you can define the playstyle of the logi user? I set my suit up to do what I enjoy to me the logi is a slayer that can ALSO carry extra equipment to assist the team, I carry 2 nanohives and a scanner, my slots are full, I tank low shields for damage mods so I can kill well also. Your saying that because I can carry more stuff then you I shouodnt fit my suit to its full potentional for mercing. These people who say im doing my job, these garbage ass logibros are usually the people pickimg you up in the midst of gunfire and watch you die again. If they want to staybehind a fat man with an hmg and stick their rep tool up his fairy amarr skirt fine, as for me, Ill scan sling some hives and slay, dont try to limit the ability of our suits because YOU think thats why you suck, get better, get over it, and get a new suit...... First of all I don't suck, anytime you would like to join me in game on my team or the other I'd be happy to show you. I'm also not trying to define the playstyle of the logi, CCP does that for me in the first couple paragraphs of the first post. You quoted it, you obviously read it. You, my man, as logistics are not 'supposed' to be a FLF. However if you choose to be, fundamentally you should not be able to have more EHP, and deal more dmg (with mods) than any equivalent Assault variant. Is it a problem with Logis? not necessarily. I think its a problem with the assault variant suits. Yes our suits have a few passive abilities, speed and stamina. Since the Min assault is the only one with any significant speed boost, I guess I'm allowed to cry, that logis get a free armor rep (min logi). YOur point is null and void, and you are an assault player in denial in a logi suit. Get over it.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 48	Posted - 2013.10.26 10:12:00 - [10] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Doc Noah wrote: I still dont understand why logis think they need all that HP whether it be through the extra slots or from the built in rep. You're "support" or "combat medic" not frontline soldier. You're duty is to stand behind your guys whether it be medic duty or shooting over their shoulder, instead we have brickfit logis rushing forward and killing enemy assault players 1 by 1. I can do my logi duties in a STD suit ffs, sure I do run into situations where I get fired upon but I'm usually at a relative safe distance or slightly behind more obvious threats like my teamates, not deep in the enemy hotzone looking to spill some blood. Thats your OPINION of what the logi is supposed to do, if thats the case why give us a primary weapon? Please show me in writing where ccp has said logis are not supposed to kill, just imagine if Ratchet had that attitude Optimus wouldnt have made it to part 2. "mechanical and medical support..." its right on the suit description in game.

Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 48	Posted - 2013.10.26 13:04:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah this thread is getting a bit ridiculous, cosgar/smots jyu-ku/doshneil, thanks for your insight. IDIC, you just talk ****, none of it productive, you literally just QQ all day. Can't wait to find you in game. You guys bring up some valid points though, if diversity is the direction CCP wants to go...Then I still want to know why there is even an assault variant in the game? The suit design is not optimized for assault or diversity. The logistics suit can do it better minus a sidearm. The logistics player can literally be a variant of any other role in the game, the assault suit is effectively a beefy scout. The logistics role is about diversity, great. Go be a logirepper, logislayer, WPwhore, whatever. Why, in an FPS, have an assault role, that BASED ON WP production, cannot fulfill its primary function as well as another suit's non-traditional function? THIS IS NOT A NERF LOGI THREAD. Call me scrub, I suck, whatever you need to justify your premenstrual rage go for it. The fact remains that the proto logi suits, with their amount of highs and lows, are capable of running a suit based purely for assault, better than the assault variants given the same core proficiencies.
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 63	Posted - 2013.10.29 15:36:00 - [12] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: What I hate about these threads is they never account for the desire of player creativity and adaptability, they almost always look to restrain, to hold back, to hinder, cap, stop, lock, and these things push us more and more into very specific playstyles instead of allowing for new and crazy combonations that come from, the freedom of being able to pair anything and everything. Hell Id love to see multiple suit bonuese that could be picked from a list and added to a certain fit just for creating even better playstyles. I want more choice, more freedom, not less, damn cant you see how this hurts the game with nerf its? This is what you want, and in this games current build your Logi can give you just that. Literally, you can play any playstyle you can be a better scout than a scout, you can tank like a heavy with more speed, you can kill like an assault with more eHP, you can even be a true logi! That's great. In a game that is not centered around kD/R, but rather isk and WP; you have many many options available to you. To receive more WP and ISK, I don't understand why a logi suit, can (in theory) be equipped with a better slot loadout for slaying (regardless of racial & suit bonuses). I understand speed is an advantage, as CALLOGI you have 4 lows, throw a kincat on and the speed is negated. As minmatard if I run kincat then all I can run is a cpu enhancer and that's it. Speed isn't a big factor in slaying, its a bigger factor in playstyle. Which is my last point, everyone on this thread has their PLAYSTYLE, I get it. Some think logis should be jack of all trades, others think they should run around with a nerf gun and paperwads for grenades. All I'm saying is I simply don't agree that CCP has done a good job balancing their medium classes. I think some people confused this thread with a logi nerf. I DO NOT WANT TO NERF LOGIS, if anything give the minmatar assault 1 low slot. IDIC has a point....the more diversity in a game, the better. I'm all for it. In the current build at least the minmatar assault could use some love (I think all assault suits).

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