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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
247
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Posted - 2013.10.26 02:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you just change the assaults racial bonuses to be weapon oriented, and change the logi suits so they can't leave their equip slots empty (just like other suits can't leave their weapon slots empty), problem solved.
Go ask an Amarr assault that uses a LR or ScR if they like that suit better than the logi. You'll get a lot of yes'. My LR is almost a different weapon on the amarr assault compared to my logi suit.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
249
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:If you just change the assaults racial bonuses to be weapon oriented, and change the logi suits so they can't leave their equip slots empty (just like other suits can't leave their weapon slots empty), problem solved.
Go ask an Amarr assault that uses a LR or ScR if they like that suit better than the logi. You'll get a lot of yes'. My LR is almost a different weapon on the amarr assault compared to my logi suit.
All that the Slayer logis will do is equip 4 Compact hives and change one of their Proto modules to an Advanced one. Problem not solved.
Sure it is. You've now forced a non-logistics player to make a compromise they may not want to make, and made the assault suit more attractive to them. The ideal solution here isn't one that makes the logi suit crap, it's one that makes the assault suit more attractive to people who want to play an assault-only style! |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
250
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Tectonic Fusion wrote:Here's how I see it: If I'm an assault, I can go to the enemy team and take out all the objective defenders. But if I'm a logistics, I am better at defense. This is because I can set up triage hives for healing/ammo, put uplinks for support spawning, and because I only have one weapon, I can go all beast mode without cover when I'm fighting 7+ attackers. Flux Grendades Tectonic Fusion wrote:Text Grant wrote:Logi's are also slower, and have a slower shield depleted recharge time. If they really kill you that much maybe you should try NOT running at everyone full speed to kill them. They have higher base health but lower regin. They have lower base HP, but can be dealt with by stacking complex shields/armor. And that's where balancing comes in, logistics are more reliant on what they equip over what their base stats are. It costs more and with the armor and (soonGäó) shield penalties, logis have to give more up just to be on the same level.
Excellent point, one I often forget. Having an extra low slot and the available cpu/pg to fit an armor module is not the same as having higher base eHP to start. The base eHP comes with zero penalty, whereas the armor plate slows you down. I don't have the numbers in front of me to do the maths but I suspect that an extra slot and much of the cpu/pg would disappear if you put a ferroscale plate in that slot with equivalent HP to make up for the difference in the base numbers. Sure, you could put a regular armor plate in and get more HP, but you sacrifice speed. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
251
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 12:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well... This sure got stupid in a hurry. Good luck, Cosgar, I'm out! (If he hasn't decided to bail out too, lol) |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
257
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 20:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
*pokes head in the door*
Just b/c people whine about something doesn't mean it gets nerfed. There was endless QQ about MDs about a month or two ago, no nerf. Forge guns? No nerf. CCP may make some lolchoices and definitely overreact, but they do actually use some empiric data to decide what to nerf, not just listening to the people with torches and pitchforks.
Hell, EVERYONE predicted the CalLogi was going to be god mode within hours of its stats being posted. It took months for that to get fixed.
*closes door* |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 00:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:OZAROW wrote:emtbraincase wrote:best compromise i've seen is the following, stated by many individuals too numerous to mention:
Assault Suit Bonus: +2% damage bonus per level with "Hybrid" Light weapons (Hybrid or whatever the AR is, basically free complex at proto. Not limiting to hybrid/whatever would make Amarr Assault + AScr/Viziam = God Mode, so limited to non-duplicating bonuses like Lt DMG and racial Laser bonus.)
Assault suit Loses: No equipment slots on any racial suit (makes them a true slayer, no support options at all )
Logistics Suit Bonus: Leave alone (we rep everyone else, we gotta be able to keep our own armor up without drawing away more weapons. basically a free complex repper at proto)
Logistics Suit Loses: Must use all available equipment slots before fitting becomes valid (this forces a logi to carry items into battle that assist the team whether they want to or not, thus reducing the complaint that they are ignoring equipment slots to become Billy Badass.)
Both gain something useful. Trust me, most logi would consider leaving it alone to be gaining something. Both lose something, in the ability to effectively use the suit for more than it's intended purpose. 4 compact nano hives only uses the equivalent of one proto hive or less, so a smart logi slayer guys would just use that, go to the depot, switch out to uplink fits an good hive fits, dump those then back to a tanked fit with compacts, your still gonna have the same problem. The real problem is AR tanked fits, I think is what people are moaning about, but if you take away light weapons a logo can't use a cqc like a sg? To me that's wrong. I'm a scout that went logi, for the hack speed an team support for equipment an to be more usefull in pc, I can get in with my scout an switch at the depot spam equip than use either fit to defend, personally I'd say if you have a problem with logies destroy the depots then kill the logis, you don't wanna be a assault with no equip, no depot an a dead logi an no needle. That logic would ruin the game. WAIT! Did I just notice at the top that you want a built in 10% damage mod to a assault, plus a 15% damage mod built into the gun,PLUS THE ABILITY TO PUT A 10% DAMAGE MOD ON BEFORE STACKING PENALTIES OCCUR! ARE YOU FUKKING CRAZY!
Some people are not so good at maths. 2% is clearly too high. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 01:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:OZAROW wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:emtbraincase wrote:best compromise i've seen is the following, stated by many individuals too numerous to mention:
Assault Suit Bonus: +2% damage bonus per level with "Hybrid" Light weapons (Hybrid or whatever the AR is, basically free complex at proto. Not limiting to hybrid/whatever would make Amarr Assault + AScr/Viziam = God Mode, so limited to non-duplicating bonuses like Lt DMG and racial Laser bonus.)
Assault suit Loses: No equipment slots on any racial suit (makes them a true slayer, no support options at all )
Logistics Suit Bonus: Leave alone (we rep everyone else, we gotta be able to keep our own armor up without drawing away more weapons. basically a free complex repper at proto)
Logistics Suit Loses: Must use all available equipment slots before fitting becomes valid (this forces a logi to carry items into battle that assist the team whether they want to or not, thus reducing the complaint that they are ignoring equipment slots to become Billy Badass.)
Both gain something useful. Trust me, most logi would consider leaving it alone to be gaining something. Both lose something, in the ability to effectively use the suit for more than it's intended purpose. 4 compact nano hives only uses the equivalent of one proto hive or less, so a smart logi slayer guys would just use that, go to the depot, switch out to uplink fits an good hive fits, dump those then back to a tanked fit with compacts, your still gonna have the same problem. The real problem is AR tanked fits, I think is what people are moaning about, but if you take away light weapons a logo can't use a cqc like a sg? To me that's wrong. I'm a scout that went logi, for the hack speed an team support for equipment an to be more usefull in pc, I can get in with my scout an switch at the depot spam equip than use either fit to defend, personally I'd say if you have a problem with logies destroy the depots then kill the logis, you don't wanna be a assault with no equip, no depot an a dead logi an no needle. That logic would ruin the game. Some people are not so good at maths. 2% is clearly too high. And on that same token, assaults get access to more weapon variety the logistics. How many logis do you see with lasers, TAC ARs, or swarms?
*raises hand*
I use laz0rs reasonably often, swarms too, though the swarm is not always on a logi suit, admittedly. But, I have the advantage of a sidearm, so... |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
271
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 18:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:So in the name of objectivity I went and purchased some neo assault ck0 suits, heres what I put on, 3 complex shields, 1 complex light damage mod, 1 complex armor plate, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 basic armor repaier, a gek, std sub, m1, std hive...... 493 shield 419 armor, now at first this is very close to my slayer logi fit, but on it I can run the duvolle and a core, however if you take away the repper you can make almost exactly the same fit, which means he relies on the LOGI. XD Now in staying with what I have lets continue to compare these 2 builds so I didnt get the duvolle or core, but whats the trade off? So I could run faster, great for quickly flanking, I have my sub, yay, more stamina, and more stamina recovery, faster shield recharge, more shield efficacy, and I went 30 and 9 with it. So can it be made exactly like my suit? No it cant but I cant make my suit exactly like this neo either...... If you gave this suit more cpu pg then it could be identicial, plus be able to do all that other stuff I said and have a sidearm, what would the balance be then?
I must admit I'm not completely understanding what you are saying here. Maybe if you listed both suits individually and stated why you thought the assault was worse it might be more clear to me. I might argue you are downplaying the advantage of better speed and shield recharge, for example.
Also, did you account for bonuses? Meaning, if you bought the 'neo' version you obviously don't have cal assault up to level 5 - an ISK suit which you have maxed out the bonus at level 5 can't be compared directly to an aurum suit which you have at level 3, for example.
I ask because if you had the maximum shield bonus on the assault you might consider losing the damage mod for another complex shield and then you (I could certainly be wrong) might have enough CPU/pg savings for the duvolles, which is more or less a GEK with a damage mod, plus have more shields. With a Caldari assault (disclaimer: which I only have at lvl 3 and don't use much anymore) I assume max shield tanking would be the most effective fitting. It's not like the Amarr, where you can use the damage mod as as way of pseudo-armor tanking with highs. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
273
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:*Puts on his Gallente Assualt suit, then looks over at the Logi suit bonus. Cries.*
Seriously, if my suit is expected to be on the front line favoring armor builds, why in the hell am I getting a shield-based bonus?! Give Gallente Assault the logi armor rep bonus and I'd be sooo happy.
Would make more sense to give it a similar bonus to armor plates as the cal assault has to shield extenders. Keep it consistent across races. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
291
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 01:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Reading this thread, I actually like the idea of logi's getting sidearms, if only for the reason of getting the 90% of the population who currently use logistics suits OUT of those logistics suits. I mean seriously, the logi spam is annoying as ****, I joined this game when you would be lucky to see a single logi on the field, now everyone and their mother is using them.
*gets notification that the one and true Logi Bro has posted... reads it immediately*
*drops to knees*
"NoooooOOOOOooooOOOOOoooooOoOoooOooOoOooooOoOOOOOOOOooooo!"
I... I... I think I just lost my way.
(Say it ain't so, Logi Bro!)
Ninja spam artist and logistical nightmare
Amarr victor!
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