refer to CCP's own description of the suits: (http://dust514.com/universe/dropsuits/)

Assault: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

Logistics: The Logistics dropsuit is outfitted with the latest in diagnostic technology, to help the wearer maintain the condition and efficiency of squad-mates and their equipment. A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.


Now we'll look at the proto suit variants for each as this represents the 'end game' builds: (Highs/Lows/Equip)

Assault:
Gk0 - 3/4/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 120/210 EHP =330
Ck0 -4/3/1, 60pg/300 cpu. 210/120 EHP = 330
Mk0 - 5/2/1, 64 pg/320 cpu. 150/135 EHP = 285
Ak0 - 3/3/1, 70pg/350cpu 180/180 EHP = 360

Logistics:
Gk0 -3/5/4, 78pg/390cpu. 90/180 = 270 EHP
Ck0 - 5/4/3, 78pg/350 cpu. 180/90 = 270 EHP
Mk0 - 4/4/4, 78pg/390 cpu. 90/150 = 240 EHP
Ak0 - 3/4/3, 72pg/390 cpu. 120/180 = 300 EHP



Here's what I don't understand...No where in CCP description of the Logi does it say, adapted for optimal slaying and WP production. And the assault, "most adaptable suit on the field", are you ******* kidding me?

My beef is that logis are not required to fill equip slots, so if you don't fill the slots....3 out of the 4 logi suits have more total Highs and Lows than the assault variants, with a significant boost to pg and cpu to fit proto mods/weaps/grenades.

The logistics role by definition is not a slayer build, but due to CCP's infinite wisdom they have allowed the base suit to be more adept at the 'slayer' role than the assault variant.

Now, people will argue that oh logis don't get a side-arm so its fair. Right, because when I watch the battlefeed it always says "Ishukone assault submachine gun", you hardly ever see "Duvolle assault rifle". SMH. The sidearm argument is played out.

Yes the assault variants have more base EHP but its really not that significant unless you are Amarr Assault or Min Logi, as those two lie on the ends of the spectrum.


Here's my QQ, Why does a logi have the ability to 'change' roles from logistics, to assault, to scout, to tank....when no other class especially the class that boasts the "most adaptable suit on the battlefield" is unable to cross into another role?

And to respond to Jack Mcready.....take the equip slot from the Minmatar assault, give me another low slow and I'll be happy as a pig in ****. The equip slot on an assault is not necessary, if I am supposed to slay, then let me slay. If I am supposed to provide "medical and mechanical" support, then give me 4 equip slots!

I still dont understand why logis think they need all that HP whether it be through the extra slots or from the built in rep.
You're "support" or "combat medic" not frontline soldier. You're duty is to stand behind your guys whether it be medic duty or shooting over their shoulder, instead we have brickfit logis rushing forward and killing enemy assault players 1 by 1.

I can do my logi duties in a STD suit ffs, sure I do run into situations where I get fired upon but I'm usually at a relative safe distance or slightly behind more obvious threats like my teamates, not deep in the enemy hotzone looking to spill some blood.

Where in my post did I say logi arent suppose to kill? I described what logis arent suppose to do and thats stand in front of assaults because they make the better assaults than assaults. Hell I even wrote in the first paragraph that I shoot over my teamates shoulder and I have no problem getting kills. Next time you quote someone, read what he's saying.

Do I have to ask you to read my post again?
My argument was that for some logis to bring up that the high HP is needed because they're always the first person to be targetted is counter productive of what they're doing on the battlefield which is supporting their teamates (and yes it specifically says logis play self sustaining combat and vital support role on the battlefield). Constantly bringing up "oh I'm a logi and I need all that HP to survive when helping my teamates" is stupid when they're exposing themselves to gunfire in the first place.
Its like someone saying they need legendary armor to take on a dragon just to pick flowers.

Agree with who? Did I quote OP and say that he was right? Nothing in my post specifically agrees with anyone. And what do you mean the quote doesnt matter? You're the one quoting me without reading you potato.

I dont care what you do or how you play, my post has nothing to do with you and your "killing playstyle".

i do believe I meet this criteria

A soldier in a logistics dropsuit can greatly improve the overall effectiveness of his group, and fills a vital tactical role in small-unit operations and full-scale warfare by providing both medical and mechanical support.

first off I do indeed fill a vital tactical role on the battlefield in both a mechanical and medical means.

my triage hives are very useful at keeping people alive, and my mechanical RE's work wonders at supporting my team in a premptive manner, you see when the enemies are dead, I don't need to revive my useless blue dots.

I also fill a third role which is of vital importance to the team called, "killer of all red dots, who my useless blue dot team mates can't be bothered to kill", I know it's a tough position to fill but if I don't do it nobody will.

as a logi I believe it's my role to make sure the useless blue dots don't need to get their hands dirty with menial tasks like trying not to die, I'm like a butler who makes sure their time on the battlefield is as safe as possible.

The real thing that ticks me off is this.

These are assuming brick-tanked suits with an armor repper, at the proto level

Assault- 900 EHP

Heavy- 1500 EHP (from my knowledge this is the heavy'a HP ceiling.

Logistics- 1200 EHP

LOLWUT?

Why? "We are the support guys, so people try and kill us first." To my knowledge, you shoot the guys who are shooting back first in a shooter. Why? Because they are the people, y'know, SHOOTING YOU?

"But we lose a sidearm!" Yeah, that's what you lost FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT.

Not a 33% HP buff over the fellow med frames.

What did you trade for that? Marginal amount of speed? LAV. Ta da. Just like the heavies used to. And yes, I have seen this exact thing, and it's been happening.

Limiting the true-bros to a sidearm is very unfair, and reducing speed would really make the logi a slimmer heavy.

So, why not reduce your HP down to a reasonable level?

You still keep your defining traits, only your now as survivable as the people whom your helping, instead of the survivability of a heavy.

I know full well that those guys won't be too happy, but more importantly, the people that take a Logi suit and twist it into something it shouldnt be able to do will be livid.
The last thing I want is a nerf to logis, real logis. I couldn't care less if the 'Slayer Logis' get nerfed to hell because of this. They deserve it, in the same way that real logis deserve to not be nerfed because other people are exploiting the same suit that that use.
This would allow people that use the suit for equipment to continue doing so, while getting rid of the 'OP logis'.

Did you even read my suggestion? Stop being so defensive about everything everyone says...

Lol assault vs logistics argument still going on. How about scout vs assault. Assaults can match speed, and out damage with a sniper rifle, and have way better survivability than the scout for slightly less stamina and higher suit signature. If an assault can act as scout, a logi can be a slayer. It is up to the individual as to how and what mods they insert into their chosen suit, and that's how CCP envisioned it. Might as well stop QQing, the freedom of these suits are working as intended.

"mechanical and medical support..." its right on the suit description in game.

First of all I don't suck, anytime you would like to join me in game on my team or the other I'd be happy to show you. I'm also not trying to define the playstyle of the logi, CCP does that for me in the first couple paragraphs of the first post. You quoted it, you obviously read it. You, my man, as logistics are not 'supposed' to be a FLF. However if you choose to be, fundamentally you should not be able to have more EHP, and deal more dmg (with mods) than any equivalent Assault variant. Is it a problem with Logis? not necessarily. I think its a problem with the assault variant suits. Yes our suits have a few passive abilities, speed and stamina. Since the Min assault is the only one with any significant speed boost, I guess I'm allowed to cry, that logis get a free armor rep (min logi). YOur point is null and void, and you are an assault player in denial in a logi suit. Get over it.

True slayers don't use side arms hell most spam nades now days

You do know that the Min Assault suit reps itself at 1 hp a sec so your arguement about logis built in armor rep is null and void. Just because YOU can't out perform some logis doesn't mean the suit is OP. It could mean that the person is just better than you.

Why can't i like more than once?

Yeah this thread is getting a bit ridiculous, cosgar/smots jyu-ku/doshneil, thanks for your insight. IDIC, you just talk ****, none of it productive, you literally just QQ all day. Can't wait to find you in game.

You guys bring up some valid points though, if diversity is the direction CCP wants to go...Then I still want to know why there is even an assault variant in the game? The suit design is not optimized for assault or diversity. The logistics suit can do it better minus a sidearm. The logistics player can literally be a variant of any other role in the game, the assault suit is effectively a beefy scout.

The logistics role is about diversity, great. Go be a logirepper, logislayer, WPwhore, whatever. Why, in an FPS, have an assault role, that BASED ON WP production, cannot fulfill its primary function as well as another suit's non-traditional function?

THIS IS NOT A NERF LOGI THREAD.

Call me scrub, I suck, whatever you need to justify your premenstrual rage go for it. The fact remains that the proto logi suits, with their amount of highs and lows, are capable of running a suit based purely for assault, better than the assault variants given the same core proficiencies.

IF IT WERE UP TO ME, NOBODY WOULD GET NERFED! BUT PEOPLE ARE CRYING FOR NERFS, AND IF WE CAN LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE HISTORY OF DUST, ITS THAT PEOPLE GETBNERFED WHEN OTHER CRY ABOUT THEM. HONESTLY THOUGH, NOBODY WOULD BE CRYING ABOUT LOGI SUITS IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU DIDNT EXPLOIT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE! My aiming is fine BTW. You don't get to insult someone that mains a Placon and still does better than you. Scrub.

ITT: The Good Idea Fairy runs rampant.

Convoluted solutions are inelegant and will come back to bite you in the ass. Can't we all just agree that it's ok for logis to kill things just as it's ok for assaults to drop links or hives? It's a matter of perception on a spectrum and people are apparently salty because logis kill things - tell me, what is the 'right' amount of killing that logis are allowed to do, if logis are better at killing and you want to kill why haven't you specced into logis, and why can a noob like me (Cal Logi primary...) still go 3.0+ kdr in pubs all day yesterday using a BPO fit Templar Assault / Templar Laser with 0 skills in either? Perhaps it's not just the suit...

I must admit I'm not completely understanding what you are saying here. Maybe if you listed both suits individually and stated why you thought the assault was worse it might be more clear to me. I might argue you are downplaying the advantage of better speed and shield recharge, for example.

Also, did you account for bonuses? Meaning, if you bought the 'neo' version you obviously don't have cal assault up to level 5 - an ISK suit which you have maxed out the bonus at level 5 can't be compared directly to an aurum suit which you have at level 3, for example.

I ask because if you had the maximum shield bonus on the assault you might consider losing the damage mod for another complex shield and then you (I could certainly be wrong) might have enough CPU/pg savings for the duvolles, which is more or less a GEK with a damage mod, plus have more shields. With a Caldari assault (disclaimer: which I only have at lvl 3 and don't use much anymore) I assume max shield tanking would be the most effective fitting. It's not like the Amarr, where you can use the damage mod as as way of pseudo-armor tanking with highs.

Why not a damage mod fitting reduction?

This came up in another assault vs logi topic but why not base everything on fitting reductions:

Assault - Weapon Mods
Scouts - Biotics and Electronics
Heavies- Armor and Shields
Logistics - Equipment

Make these a third suit bonus, lower the CPU/PG on logistics, and give scouts a second equipment slot. There, I just re-balanced Dust 514's suits.

All mods you are referring to are available to all types of suits, so yes, I feel that the assault should have a complex dmg mod as a bonus for that kit that isn't available to other fits. It would mean an assault would do the job an assault is supposed to do.

To the person above you, I would also like to say that all equip mentioned above must be different. You cannot rock 4 militia nano and pass. But if you wanted to use 4 different hives, then by all means go after it. That will prevent someone from doing just as you mentioned.

I run Duvolle with Ishukone SMG prof 4. My point is Logi's cry foul they don't have one. As an FLF I do use mine, but rarely in the whole scheme of things. Logis aren't FLF's so why are they bitching about not having something that is rarely used.

the problem is that most people only see the diversity in logi suit users. Most "logi" probably don't even logi, it just lets them do what they want easier due to the suit space. I want there to be diversity, but I also don't want a playstyle that uses a suit to it's intended advantages (logi get extra equip for a reason) to get a nerf because of a vocal minority who thinks it is unfair. If your goal is to kill things, then you should be an assault-based character and put on what you wish. You wanna play support, you should use a logi-based suit. I think that each suit has advantages, but only the logi is obvious to everyone. I just wanted to give someone an obvious reason to take an assault over logi and quit giving us logi a bad name.

I have always been a scout an my secondary choice is logi.
I chrome it had a real purpose because heavies were amazing! They travelled in pairs, assaults carried needles an logis supplied needles, rep tools links an hives, an a lot of scouts carried either a needle, links or a rep tool, because scouts had enough HP to stay close to a squad.

Now!

THE GAME CHANGED

1. HEAVIES SUCK AND ARE NOT FEARED= squads leave th behind an don't lead with them Infront like before.
Used to be a heavy leading the pack, logistics getting guardian points , assaults surrounding the logi an a scout orbiting the pack like the moon.

2. Needles suck, because noobs do the quick 60 militia point thing in a fire fight so now nobody trusts it they respawn ASAP .

3. Logies cant see your Health bar so they carry links an rep hives for you to monitor your own life an give you a spot to spawn. So just cuz they have pro 5 on a gun an can stack HP an damage an equip that is the game makers fault for removing the HP bar.
Their is less risk involved an the logi is now forced to lead than follow because heavies drop to fast the heavy now backs the logi

4. Scouts had a equipment and slot removed, they have no specific role other than lone wolfing it away from danger an the CPU hardly allows room for links because their scanning is hardly better than anyone else's so they need a scanner.

Fix this don't nerf anything!

I would take cod out of that list of shooters you gave if you want people to take you seriously.

Make logis fill their equip slots, getting really tired of seeing proto gal logis with 3 dmg mods a duvolle and 800+ hp.

This is what you want, and in this games current build your Logi can give you just that. Literally, you can play any playstyle you can be a better scout than a scout, you can tank like a heavy with more speed, you can kill like an assault with more eHP, you can even be a true logi! That's great. In a game that is not centered around kD/R, but rather isk and WP; you have many many options available to you. To receive more WP and ISK, I don't understand why a logi suit, can (in theory) be equipped with a better slot loadout for slaying (regardless of racial & suit bonuses). I understand speed is an advantage, as CALLOGI you have 4 lows, throw a kincat on and the speed is negated. As minmatard if I run kincat then all I can run is a cpu enhancer and that's it. Speed isn't a big factor in slaying, its a bigger factor in playstyle.
Which is my last point, everyone on this thread has their PLAYSTYLE, I get it. Some think logis should be jack of all trades, others think they should run around with a nerf gun and paperwads for grenades. All I'm saying is I simply don't agree that CCP has done a good job balancing their medium classes.

I think some people confused this thread with a logi nerf. I DO NOT WANT TO NERF LOGIS, if anything give the minmatar assault 1 low slot.

IDIC has a point....the more diversity in a game, the better. I'm all for it. In the current build at least the minmatar assault could use some love (I think all assault suits).