I mean, if that is the way we're going to go about things, how much? I'm interested in the specifics. I've been thinking about this for a while and kept forgetting to ask, but reading that forge nerf thread made me remember and i'll just forget if I don't do it now.

Any super tankers around to give me an estimate? Before the vehicle balance patch rolls in and makes it irrelevant?

Yeah, but how exactly do we go about that? How many more slots? How much more CPU/PG? How much more basic EHP? Built in damage resistance?

7 high/low 4high/low depending on type with 20-40% pg/cpu buff at least thats my opinion.

7 high/low 4high/low depending on type with 20-40% pg/cpu buff at least thats my opinion.

Proto tank = three people with proto AV to take down. It very well coordinated two people, but it should be very difficult.

oh look another tank driver L2Pissue club, this is new and refreshing


that would be ok if you would need 3 people to actually drive a tank and as long this is not the ture a single AV weapon should be enough to scare the tank away with continous fire which is the case with the current HAVs actually.

oh look another tank driver L2Pissue club, this is new and refreshing

Stop.

The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger.

It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more.

Yah, I'll agree with that when it costs 2 mil ISK to fit a suit with AV weapons, or proto tanks cost 150k ISK when fully outfitted. Now, quite being so ridiculous.

Proto tank = three people with proto AV to take down. It very well coordinated two people, but it should be very difficult.

For shield 6 high, 3 low (4 would be insane) 15% more hp,10% resistance for shields and skill
for pro tanks, 5% more pg and cpu,and range per lvl

One cost 2 mil isk. same for armour tanks,.

With the proto-AV we have now, what would the stats of a proto-tank be?

That's what i'm asking.

I'd happily pay 10mil a tank for 7/4 layout

tank driver L2Pissue club

Stop.

The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger.

It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more.

I'm sure you would, OP Tank :P

Like I said I'll agree with that when the AVers start paying over two mil ISK per AV fit. You want to go that route I'm all for it.

Basic - 5/2

Advanced - 6/3

Proto - 7/4

CPU/PG increase by 25%

Maybe also base HP increase by 25% also

Overall should take 2/3 proto AV to take down a proto HAV

why do you even post if you dont understand the basics? do you like to make yourself look stupid?

again for you, isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks because it changes the game into a 15vs13, 14vs10, 13vs7 etc.. (3 people busy to take care of one tank). it would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later. your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this and wake up from your tunnelvision trance.

oh look another tank driver L2Pissue club, this is new and refreshing


that would be ok if you would need 3 people to actually drive a tank and as long this is not the ture a single AV weapon should be enough to scare the tank away with continous fire which is the case with the current HAVs actually.

or skills could play a larger part in tanks and would stack with the other occupants in the tank so instead of passengers being a nuisance the drivers would now flock to the tanks channels for AFK gunners.

I think it's a bad way to look at it, reduce price of vehicles/increase price of AV

5:2 - 1 Standard AVer, 2 if players are bad or Pilot is good
5:3 - 1 Advanced AVer, 2 if players are bad or Pilot is good
6:3 - 1 Prototype AVer, 2 if players are bad or Pilot is good

Make AV cost similar prices to Turrets

Fixed.

Or pilot suits for passengers adding additional bonuses?

Give two types of bonus on the suit stats

Pilot: Bonus here
Passenger: Bonus here

So three people in a tank, you get the pilot and two passenger bonuses? :D

Nope

1 AV player? **** no

I have to have a 2nd person watching my back half the time, i use teamwork in a tank even tho infantry tryhards wont accept it

Why should they be able to solo my proto tank if its fully fitted? shouldnt AV use teamwork?

Also the slot layouts suck, 1h/l slot per meta jump is good

why do you even post if you dont understand the basics? do you like to make yourself look stupid?

again for you, isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks because it changes the game into a 15vs13, 14vs10, 13vs7 etc.. (3 people busy to take care of one tank). it would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later. your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this and wake up from your tunnelvision trance.

You know I can do that to:

Like I said I'll agree with that when the AVers start paying over two mil ISK per AV fit. You want to go that route I'm all for it.

why do you even post if you dont understand the basics? do you like to make yourself look stupid?

again for you, isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a AVer offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a use AV (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a to to take down a tank would mean instant loose for every tanker, which is the way the game is now. 1 person to take care of one tank, would make it absolutely stupid to ever bring in a tank, which is the way it is now.

You want to go around calling people stupid for no good reason? You sir are a ******* sum bag.

Your argument is valid when "the team" actually starts paying for my tanks. Now why don't you go **** yourself.

All I wanted was hypothetical stats. Sheesh.

All I wanted was hypothetical stats. Sheesh.

AVer offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified.

except this is wrong.

the list of stuff that can deal with vehicles:
installations
equipment
other vehicles

also AV is limited to AV while a HAV can deal with everything on his own.

HAV also cannot be brought down by a single guy using AV if you actually know what you are doing.

in short: you still dont get it, have made yourself look even more stupid and made it certain that you are just another worthless noob

Add the Pilot suit into the mix, add additional bonuses from passengers (If they ever decided to do it like I suggested above) would turn that 1 AVer into 3 Proto AV needed

Also, you and I both know 7:4 would be OP

Edit: if prices of AV were level with Turrets, can you imagine a Proto Breach Forge Gunner ever on the battlefield? fielding a 900k Weapon? ^_^

except this is wrong.

the list of stuff that can deal with vehicles:
installations
equipment
other vehicles

also AV is limited to AV while a HAV can deal with everything on his own.

HAV also cannot be brought down by a single guy using AV if you actually know what you are doing.

in short: you still dont get it, have made yourself look even more stupid and made it certain that you are just another worthless noob

I have a feeling pilot suit will either come out pre nerfed after the whining about the placeholder numbers plus i dont think they will stack even tho they should and hopefully they come out with modules that can be on the pilot suit and help enhance the vehicle even more

As for 7/4 i dont think its OP i think its more logical tbh, if you look at dropsuits from basic to proto the vast majority get a 100% increase in slots and 100% increase in CPU/PG

Turret prices is what makes the tank expenisve, the normal mods may add upto 200k but the turret whacks it up well over a mil and that is the pricing problem atm

a 7/4 with 20-30% pg buff layout would easily be able to to attain 20k ehp so it may be a tad op

tanks could achieve 20k ehp in the closed beta and where nerfed back then for a reason.

a 7/4 with 20-30% pg buff layout would easily be able to to attain 20k ehp so it may be a tad op

proto tanks will not have 7 high or low slots simply because the amount to keep track of and activate is to much the only thing proto tanks will have over the current tanks are more powergrid and cpu and a slightly higher base hp

adding more modules just makes things more convulted and complicated than it needs to be what we need is proto modules

id rather have 2 .34 armor hardeners when together gives .56 percent damage reduction
than 3 .25 armor hardeners that together give .57

This is nearly impossible to balance in a 16vs 16 Team based match. If this become true Tanks would be unstoppable just throw in 3 Tanks that would force the entire opposing team to focus on AV leaving your Team with 13 people to murder the other teams AV = instant win....

I mean, if that is the way we're going to go about things, how much? I'm interested in the specifics. I've been thinking about this for a while and kept forgetting to ask, but reading that forge nerf thread made me remember and i'll just forget if I don't do it now.

Any super tankers around to give me an estimate? Before the vehicle balance patch rolls in and makes it irrelevant?

They would pubstomp hard but they'd be perfectly balanced in pc. That's the hardest thing to handle until we get matchmaking/true high/low sec. Maybe only std allowed in high sec, adv in low, pro in null/pc?

They would pubstomp hard but they'd be perfectly balanced in pc. That's the hardest thing to handle until we get matchmaking/true high/low sec. Maybe only std allowed in high sec, adv in low, pro in null/pc?

If you know any thing about tanking, then you know that tanks have to not only deal with AV but must also deal with other tanks. And this is very dificult to deal with. It requires a lot of time in the over map, constantly checking to see if the enemy has droped in a tank somewhere. The proper 1v1 counter to a tank is a tank, not AV. You guys are aproaching this thing like tanks exist in a vacuum. Like only one team can call in tanks and the other team is forbidden. Out side of the imbalance between shield tank and armor tank, tank on tank combat is very viable right now. You talk about 16v16 pub stomps, well where we're the tankers on the other team. Maybe getting pub stomped is what is needed to get some people to skill into the proper 1v1 counter to tanks.

Lets say it takes 3 or even 4 people to kill a proto tank. Those same 3 or 4 people can now deny the entire battlefield to all armour because they can break the tank of the strongest vehicle and they have access to effectively unlimited ammo.

installations (large turret dumb***)
equipment (part of infantry AV dumb***)
other vehicles (other vehicles dumb***)

1. Forge gun (also anti-infantry dumb***)
2. plasma cannon (also anti-infantry dumb***)
3. Swarm launcher is the only one that can't combat infantry, which doesn't mean a damn thing because you can still equip sidarm in adition to every one of these weapons
4. Not only that but who need any of that bull**** when tanks can already be soloed with nothing but AV nades.

Bull**** dude, I've killed hundreds of tanks (litteraly) from every manner of tanker you can imagine (yes using AV). I know exactly what it takes to solo a tank. Getting tired of you talking out your ***.

I've been playing this game for eleven months now dip****. And would be glad to take your dumb *** to school any day.

I'm not going to respond to your moronic bull**** anymore I'm done with your dumb ***.

@Eurydice Itzhak

If you don't use the over map to scan the battle field constantly and track the movement of tanks you have lost sight of the your just being foolish. Why would you not use such an amazingly useful tool such as this. How does using this make me a bad tanker? Honestly some people. Some people just want to be douches.

Yah, I'll agree with that when it costs 2 mil ISK to fit a suit with AV weapons, or proto tanks cost 150k ISK when fully outfitted. Now, quite being so ridiculous.

Because then you aren't watching for incoming infantry. Unable to respond to threats. No legit tanker does that man. You stay in communication with the squad. Ask for a visual.

Unless you're hiding in the red line when you do it? Then i can almost see usefulness in it but youre still being useless tp your team every second you waste in the overhead. Get squad mates. Communicate with them.

Then sir, i'll agree with you when putting on a forge gun gives me 7k HP, as fast of movement speed as a tank, with a rocket attached to the back of the gun to propel me even faster in a tight spot, the ability to move in and out of cover while firing effectively in any direction, and no charge time on it.

but i see how your isk increase isn't well justified... /sigh

You can't rely on your sqaud every second of every match, this is absurd. I don't like loosing tanks to someone how went to a secure location out on mine and my entire teams line of sight just to call in a tank to specifically to come up behind me from the rear me while I am other wise engauged. I use the over map because I'm not a stupid tanker. And I do quite well in my tank Thankyou. And while I do rail snipe on occasion it is by far the minority of the time.

Can't rely on squad. Lol.
Goes into overhead during battle. Lol.
Doesn't have enough situational awareness to not get snuck up on. Lol.

You would get annihilated in a competitive match man. Your strategy simply isn't viable in a real setting. I run with one other guy when i play mostly and we can see just about the entire map between the two of us. In a pc match you have 15 other eyeballs.


To harpyja (who i normally agree with) I could easily ruin the game for a lot of uncoordinated people and new people in pubs if I had something just a little bit stronger than a sagaris. I'm sure you could too. There's a ton of proto av on the field but they're almost all bad. We would need something to stop us ruining the lives of baddies/newbs. Just let high sec be an option for instant battles and no one can field gear further than adv. Low sec for everyone else.

I've been in competitive play before. Killed five pro hick tanks in a PC before, only lost one. What do you got under your belt?

If you havent seen my name in any tank threads on the forums you must not come here often :0

I have never done anything but tank.

NO tanker spends any amount of time in the over map. Jesus christ how bad are you?

I agree with most of everything you said but if we got anything stronger than a sagaris it would absolutely ruin instant matchmaking unless it was imrpoved.

Proto tank = three people with proto AV to take down. It very well coordinated two people, but it should be very difficult.

If you want a tank that requires 3 people with proto AV to bring down, then it needs to be banned from public matches. Some teams might not even HAVE that much AV available, and if it takes 1/4th of a teams strength to counter 1 person, you have a SERIOUS balance issue.

I think it's a bad way to look at it, reduce price of vehicles/increase price of AV

5:2 - 1 Standard AVer, 2 if players are bad or Pilot is good
5:3 - 1 Advanced AVer, 2 if players are bad or Pilot is good
6:3 - 1 Prototype AVer, 2 if players are bad or Pilot is good

Make AV cost similar prices to Turrets

Fixed.

If you want a tank that requires 3 people with proto AV to bring down, then it needs to be banned from public matches. Some teams might not even HAVE that much AV available, and if it takes 1/4th of a teams strength to counter 1 person, you have a SERIOUS balance issue.

If you want a tank that requires 3 people with proto AV to bring down, then it needs to be banned from public matches. Some teams might not even HAVE that much AV available, and if it takes 1/4th of a teams strength to counter 1 person, you have a SERIOUS balance issue.

If you want a tank that requires 3 people with proto AV to bring down, then it needs to be banned from public matches. Some teams might not even HAVE that much AV available, and if it takes 1/4th of a teams strength to counter 1 person, you have a SERIOUS balance issue.

Anyways why should infantry be allowed to pubstomp in proto gear?

lol goonfeet being carebear looking after the noobs

Pretty rich coming from a corp that blows up miners for a good month

Anyways why should infantry be allowed to pubstomp in proto gear?

.34? what?

Nah its easy to track mods the problem for me is wheel where it ends up turning the wrong stuff on or off

If i could assign keys/face buttons to the mods or a few mods i would do

We already have a balance issue with AV grenades, that affects other AV weapons. Why use a weapon when you can do the job with grenades without having to change fittings?

Proto AV shoudnt be much of a threat to proto tanks. Proto tanks take out proto tanks. Av should be a good suppressor but manly tank vs tank is how they should be destroyed. Also they should be stronger then the advanced tanks last build :)

I am a tanker,i I can say wow this would be sick owerpowerd! but thumbs up for idea

I mean, if that is the way we're going to go about things, how much? I'm interested in the specifics. I've been thinking about this for a while and kept forgetting to ask, but reading that forge nerf thread made me remember and i'll just forget if I don't do it now.

Any super tankers around to give me an estimate? Before the vehicle balance patch rolls in and makes it irrelevant?

Honestly this is a FPS and not world of Tanks, I want Tanks to be in this game but your suggestion makes no sense for a FPS. Every weapon that is only countered by itself is a source of imbalance. So honestly no.

Honestly this is a FPS and not world of Tanks, I want Tanks to be in this game but your suggestion makes no sense for a FPS. Every weapon that is only countered by itself is a source of imbalance. So honestly no.

I'd happily pay 10mil a tank

Like I said I'll agree with that when the AVers start paying over two mil ISK per AV fit. You want to go that route I'm all for it.

it doesnt take 3 militia fits to take out a proto suit... your logic is flawed.

proto tanks should be harder to kill, not impossible. I played this toon during the -25% AV damage nerf period, and it didnt take long before it was Merely a case of who could co-ordinate the most tanks would win. Yes the maps were smaller, and we didnt have the same range of weapons, but the lesson still stands.

Diversity is the key to having a strategic shooter, and for diversity to work everything must have an effective counter.


one option might be to adjust the damage debuff non-AV weapons suffer when firing at vehicles, THEN it would be feasible to say 3xproto AV alone to take out a proto tank..... because with the debuff gone non-AV mercs would constantly chip away at HAVs, meaning dedicated AV fits, would pose a greater threat to the longevity of a tank, forcing HAV's to remain mobile, and not return us to the point we were at with the -25% AV nerf, where tanks would just park and rain doom without fear of consequence nor need for tactical retreat.

This is nearly impossible to balance in a 16vs 16 Team based match. If this become true Tanks would be unstoppable just throw in 3 Tanks that would force the entire opposing team to focus on AV leaving your Team with 13 people to murder the other teams AV = instant win....

Honestly this is a FPS and not world of Tanks, I want Tanks to be in this game but your suggestion makes no sense for a FPS. Every weapon that is only countered by itself is a source of imbalance. So honestly no.

Not strictly related to proto-tanks specifically but the Powergrids skill could do with regaining a passive +5% PG per level.

Will pass on trying to work out reasonable jumps in slots/fitting for ADV and PRO HAVs.

Would like the option of a new set of HAVs which separate the driver from the main turret, leaving it to a gunner. In exchange for for needing 2 people to operate, preferably 3, it would get a huge boost in durability. If damage boosts from turret skills use the skills of both the gunner and the driver who called it in you'd be seeing a potential 15% damage boost over regular HAVs.

Basic principle is that as it requires a larger chunk of the team working together to operate it's more reasonable to necessitate a co-ordinated anti-vehicular effort to drive away or take down. 3 mercs with proper AV on overwatch to keep the 3 man tank threatened, at a distance.

But most importantly we need a game mode that isn't Skirmish or Ambush. The HAV's actual strengths are not put to use because in the current matches those strengths aren't called for, they're largely irrelevant. Same for the dropship. A great deal of problems stem from the failings of the current game types.

This is nearly impossible to balance in a 16vs 16 Team based match. If this become true Tanks would be unstoppable just throw in 3 Tanks that would force the entire opposing team to focus on AV leaving your Team with 13 people to murder the other teams AV = instant win....

shield tank- 4500 shield 1500 armor, 2100 pg and 500 cpu and 8 high slots and 5 low slots...

So this ratio would mean in a PC match the only viable counter to a tank is another tank. And that would be imbalanced...

You talk about 16v16 pub stomps, well where we're the tankers on the other team. Maybe getting pub stomped is what is needed to get some people to skill into the proper 1v1 counter to tanks.

@Jack McReady

Looked up your kdr scrub. 1.5 kd with 1500 kill. Now why don't you come back and talk to me when you get in to your big by pants.

If you want a tank that requires 3 people with proto AV to bring down, then it needs to be banned from public matches. Some teams might not even HAVE that much AV available, and if it takes 1/4th of a teams strength to counter 1 person, you have a SERIOUS balance issue.

I'm a sneaky, win at all costs Proto AV player and there's some tanks that even I can't take down(Usually, when there are more than one on the field and they are working together). Beefing tanks up will make the great players truly unstoppable, and the crappy ones super hard to kill.

Tank strength should not be the single largest deciding factor in how much AV it takes to kill - player skill should be.

Honestly this is a FPS and not world of Tanks, I want Tanks to be in this game but your suggestion makes no sense for a FPS. Every weapon that is only countered by itself is a source of imbalance. So honestly no.

Why should it be your way, rather than coming to a compromise?

You are well on your way to replacing The Great and Powerful Charlotte O'Dell is the most vocal tanker on the forums. I'm so proud of you :')

Looked up your kdr also *cough* scrub *cough cough*.

1925 kills with a 3.43 kd.

All you have ever done is sit in a tank and the best kd you could manage was 3.43? You loose a tank after every three kills. *shakes his head* GTFO out of here with that **** man.

I mean, if that is the way we're going to go about things, how much? I'm interested in the specifics. I've been thinking about this for a while and kept forgetting to ask, but reading that forge nerf thread made me remember and i'll just forget if I don't do it now.

Any super tankers around to give me an estimate? Before the vehicle balance patch rolls in and makes it irrelevant?

I said three to two (hard for two). And yes I can take three militia fit militia drop suits all at one time, very easily. And yes I've taken these odds before in a stand up fight. Couldn't tell you if they were actually all militia fit milita suits, but you can't go any lower than militia, so what does it matter.

Team work should be required for infantry to kill a tank. Your reasoning is flawed sir.

i got 8 mil sp into tanks and my kdr is .91 thats mostly because im working my ass off to get enough money back to payoff the tank i lost (enforcer or gunnlogi) to proto OP forgegun

Ugh. I forgot about this thread. I log on and I have 87 notifications.

Looked through and at least a few people actually gave some stats.

Honestly this is a FPS and not world of Tanks, I want Tanks to be in this game but your suggestion makes no sense for a FPS. Every weapon that is only countered by itself is a source of imbalance. So honestly no.

i got 8 mil sp into tanks and my kdr is .91 thats mostly because im working my ass off to get enough money back to payoff the tank i lost (enforcer or gunnlogi) to proto OP forgegun

You are well on your way to replacing The Great and Powerful Charlotte O'Dell is the most vocal tanker on the forums. I'm so proud of you :')

This kid's only argument is KD/R ...even though it means **** to a tanker scrub pre uprising,....since they were OP since dust was released.

The problem is your thread had no basis for an actual discussion period. your thread became exactly what you felt it should be : irrelevant.

This is so funny.

Many HAV pilots appear to want "I win" buttons that AV is no threat to. So if the cries of the forged infantry wanting to not be able to be shot by forgers, and the cries of the AVed HAV/DS pilots who want their vehicles to be almost immune to AV are heeded, there would be no AV in the game at all as, in the end, it would be ineffective against everything but LAVs. Then tankers would thumb their noses at everyone else and say "This is the way it is, this game must be about HAVs as they have no effective counter but other HAVs and installations. Learn to drive one.".

Others want to make a number of AV players required to take their desired GOD vehicle down. How do would that work? No damage unless struck by X number of AV weapons within 0.2 seconds? Hmm. Then to balance that out better make an HAV inoperable without a full crew compliment.

When it takes 4 to 6 shots with my proto forge to crack an HAV, and they actually manage to escape most of the time, then you've realistically got nothing to complain about.

Now don't get me wrong, I do feel that you HAV pilots do need your proto hulls, I just don't believe they should be god machines that fear nothing but other HAVs and installations.

why do you even post if you dont understand the basics? do you like to make yourself look stupid?

again for you, isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks because it changes the game into a 15vs13, 14vs10, 13vs7 etc.. (3 people busy to take care of one tank). it would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later. your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this and wake up from your tunnelvision trance.

1 undistracted dedicated AV player should be able to take out a tank.
1 Standard AV vs. 1 Standard Tank
1 Proto AV vs. 1 Proto Tank

As unfair as this might seem to a tanker cost wise, running AV leaves the user vulnerable to infantry.
People always think of the infantry being supported by the tank, but it works both ways.
You need to have your infantry focus on taking out AV just as much as they are focusing on taking out your tank.
A tank is cover, mobility, and raw power, but it shouldn't be unstoppable even at the highest levels.

The problem comes from Tanks being so crucial in battle, and being such a great help for their team, but having all the costs carried by one person, leaving it neglected by most of the rest of the team. This is where a corp needs to fund a tanker for PC. Reducing the cost of tanks would only lead to tank spam.

I said three to two (hard for two). And yes I can take three militia fit militia drop suits all at one time, very easily. And yes I've taken these odds before in a stand up fight. Couldn't tell you if they were actually all militia fit milita suits, but you can't go any lower than militia, so what does it matter.

Team work should be required for infantry to kill a tank. Your reasoning is flawed sir.

isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks because it changes the game into a 15vs13, 14vs10, 13vs7 etc.. (3 people busy to take care of one tank). it would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later (over time anyone can get into tanks and get the isk to do so). your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this and wake up from your tunnelvision trance.

You say that because you're not a tank pilot, and have little say in the matter.

I see that you are still in your tunnelvision troll logic mode? no one agrees with you, do yourself a favor and accept that you have to l2p or dont drive tanks

I can only quote myself...

Just putting this here again.-á

Tanks are the ultimate end game-á

one tank > one infantry unit.....
l2thinkahead

Sounds like you better start investing in tanks then.-á

As said by many, AV should be mostly a deterrent, AV grenades especially, not dealing such devastating blows per individual grenade.

Why shouldn't a PRO tank be the best thing to take on another PRO tank? What's the use of specialization then, if you're going to be a jack of all trades, having 10 different fits for just one suit? Why even have vehicles in the game in the first place, if you don't want tanks to battle each other?

So get your own tank. Nothing stopping you from getting a llav, flaylock, or duvolle, either.
And do you hate teamwork? You do realize that if you destroyed that tank, your payout would be enormous, right? Plus tanks were never easy mode even when they were good. In Chromosome, 90% of tanks died in the first 3 minutes BC they were stupid. Only a handful were good enough to get all the QQs we had. Punish us for skill, right?

Proto AV shoudnt be much of a threat to proto tanks. Proto tanks take out proto tanks. Av should be a good suppressor but manly tank vs tank is how they should be destroyed. Also they should be stronger then the advanced tanks last build :)

I think it's just you being a troll. Obvious troll is obvious.

Just putting this here again.

Tanks are the ultimate end game

one tank > one infantry unit.....
l2thinkahead

you cant read cant you? only one quote can be considered as "agreeing" with him and all those quote do not cover anything he said especially cause he havent stated any valid opinion except the regular "AV IS TOO STRONK I CANT DRIVE MY TANK"

it is also funny that you quote this:

because it is actually the opposite of agreeing.

isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks and would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later. your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this.

Stop.

The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger.

It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more.

But as it is now, one below average AV guy with Proto Swarm can take down any tank, no matter shield or armor. Tanks should always be the best way to taking down tanks, not those no-skill cheap*** Proto Swarms...

The thing about AV vs Tanks. Is that the best fitted tanks with all mods on are pushed back by a single person with anything above standard AV and are out right destroyed when proto Av shows up.

With all modules on it should be hard for prototype AV players to kill the best fitted tanks in game which is currently not the case.

one shot from proto swarms forces any armor tanker to turn on all modules if they aren't already turned on
after that we are barely kept alive as our armor repper tries to repair to no avail as the swarms continue to hit
after 15 seconds when the armor repair times out we are either dead or have no way of keeping healed

and if you made it to cover pray to god that there is no one else close by with any kind of AV until your repper comes back

it should take 1 guy to destroy a proto tank? please just be quiet. let the vets answer this question.
i would say 1,000 more PG, 2,000 more armor, 7 low slots, no increased high slot, 20% more resistance, ISK price 3.7 mill base. of course im talking about proto ARMOR tank. the reason the stats are such a big jump is because were talking about LVL 5, were ignoring the LVL 3 tank.

@ jack

i see you are only taking into accoutn the best situation to happen for your tank

1000 shield isnt always up the only time you have1000 shields is if you have not been in combat with that tank

so saying oh your shield will absorb the initial damage when it is not up most of the time you are tanking and no armor tanker is going to wait 2 minutes for there shields to come back up every time it goes down

that is where your awareness comes into play. if you already took damage then simply down go into town but stay back. you can see red dots and have huge field of view thus you should easily see where you should not drive into. tanks have high range for a reason and there is plenty of cover on the maps. if AV tries to take you down, you simply hide and only move out to shoot something for a few seconds and hide again. the AV dudes will just waste time and the enemy is one or more players behind in raw firepower at the frontline while you still contribute by killing stuff from safety and preventing enemy movement.

if i wanted to hide and shoot something for a few seconds i would use my proto rail tank its easier more efficient safer and puts out more damage

stop assuming that every map has cover for a tank in every position that the enemy runs in

most objectives are covered and are in compounds and i refuse to go into compounds
most ways to get near the enemy is to go through the open fields since that is where the enemy is fighting your allies protecting objectives from your allies

theres barely any true cover for tanks due to how the maps are created with such high terrain swarms are easy to get anywhere they need to

i dont run solo you idiot god damn you are assuming i drive a certain way when you dont know a god damn way of how i drive my tank

I never said you drive solo but you showed us how little you know about tanks

"stop assuming that a tank is supposed to be a solo undestructible killing machine. "
you're speaking to me
"stop assuming"
means you believe i think a certain way
"solo indestructible killing machines
and you think i think that i think tanks are solo indestructibel killing machines

so i guess you showed me how little you can think about the whole picture

accoding to your post there is always cover within 100 meters of every enemy that is impossible for anyone to come near

be it LAVs
rail gun tanks
or dropships

accoding to your post there is always cover within 100 meters of every enemy that is impossible for anyone to come near

-1 tanks are they only unit in the game that can double and triple their health already and they want MORE? screw that.

Hey im immune to 99% of weapons in the game

Now if i can just convince the playerbase to let me be able to beat the 1% that counter me!

Lets be real, tanks do not need more base HP to be effective. More slots and increased CPU/PG, akin to suit progression would more than create the possibilities required for HAV progression.


With such a setup, proto tankers could choose how much tank or spank they require for a fitting or playstyle.

actual numbers of slots and cpu/pg would require playtesting for balance.

This of course is merely my opinion, and i understand this :P


edit:
the main AV i have problems with are organised teams or tower camped FG.

Every map has undulations and protrusive or architectural elements.

Controlling distances via use of active scanner and general UI awareness negates grenades, MD and FLP.

OB's do not kill my tanks... i rarely even bother to move out of them nowadays.


when all is said and done: you can't take every random variable into account, and you will lose a tank when you react erroneously to a surprise. I get to lol every now and then when i see a pro tanker lose their baby... :P even if they are in my squad :P

ps: dont bother quoting my kd/r i neither play for kd/r nor use my active (non forum troll) toons in a way that may garner battlefield bias :P

good thing that CCP collects data by themself and does not listen to biased QQ from uninformed people in the forums otherwise this game would be already dead. those 2 quotes are the best examples what happens when people not knowing how to drive a tank or what a tank is a capable of start to "argue" about it.

first of all, the majority of damage on the first swarm hit will be absorbed by the shield on an armor tanked hav, plenty of time to active the modules before the next volley hits.

biggest map currently in rotatoin where A is on a bridge and C and B are in a compound while everything else is in the open


you might be able to get to cover in a tank but its never true cover unless you are at base or underneath a structure out of range and surrounded by allies

I didn't even bother to read any further because you clearly know nothing about tanks. Now, when I was talking about AV, I was talking about it from my own point of view. I don't consider myself in any way a good AV player and I have yet to come across any tank that wouldn't either get destroyed by my alt's Proto Swarms or go into hiding and eventually possibly even recall.
Now, you are also assuming that everyone uses controller because active tanks are broken on KB&M so I'm just gonna say that the best fitted passive Armor tank loses all shields and 1/4 of armor when the first volley of Proto AV with damage mods hits. Guess what happens when the next volley hits? Which happens to be before repper has activated (YES IT TAKES 3 SECONDS TO ACTIVATE). The answer is we are on fire. A lot of good that repper does at that point.... Oh and yes of course I am assuming that I am getting hit from behind because only an idiot would engage tank from the front unless you are out of tank's draw distance or the tank is already at low health. Oh sorry, I forgot that even if you engage tank from the front you can still destroy the tank in 3-4 shots of Proto Swarms. I rest my case.

Proto SWARMs destroy well fit tanks with good drivers easier than I can with my Ishukone Assault Forge? Maybe I speced into the wrong AV... No. I love my forge.

Forges are perfectly fine, I don't think they need any balancing done. They take skill to use: they need to be charged and aimed and you are slow when you are charging it, heck, you are slow even when not charging it because you gotta run heavy suit.
If Swarms were skillshot weapons like Forges I would have no problem with them at all. The only problem I have with Forges is the render distance. They can see me from 4x the distance that I can see them. Even being high up in a tower or table top doesn't bother me, they have to actually get up there and then it becomes even more skillshot due to the distance.