This is so funny.

Many HAV pilots appear to want "I win" buttons that AV is no threat to. So if the cries of the forged infantry wanting to not be able to be shot by forgers, and the cries of the AVed HAV/DS pilots who want their vehicles to be almost immune to AV are heeded, there would be no AV in the game at all as, in the end, it would be ineffective against everything but LAVs. Then tankers would thumb their noses at everyone else and say "This is the way it is, this game must be about HAVs as they have no effective counter but other HAVs and installations. Learn to drive one.".

Others want to make a number of AV players required to take their desired GOD vehicle down. How do would that work? No damage unless struck by X number of AV weapons within 0.2 seconds? Hmm. Then to balance that out better make an HAV inoperable without a full crew compliment.

When it takes 4 to 6 shots with my proto forge to crack an HAV, and they actually manage to escape most of the time, then you've realistically got nothing to complain about.

Now don't get me wrong, I do feel that you HAV pilots do need your proto hulls, I just don't believe they should be god machines that fear nothing but other HAVs and installations.

why do you even post if you dont understand the basics? do you like to make yourself look stupid?

again for you, isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks because it changes the game into a 15vs13, 14vs10, 13vs7 etc.. (3 people busy to take care of one tank). it would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later. your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this and wake up from your tunnelvision trance.

1 undistracted dedicated AV player should be able to take out a tank.
1 Standard AV vs. 1 Standard Tank
1 Proto AV vs. 1 Proto Tank

As unfair as this might seem to a tanker cost wise, running AV leaves the user vulnerable to infantry.
People always think of the infantry being supported by the tank, but it works both ways.
You need to have your infantry focus on taking out AV just as much as they are focusing on taking out your tank.
A tank is cover, mobility, and raw power, but it shouldn't be unstoppable even at the highest levels.

The problem comes from Tanks being so crucial in battle, and being such a great help for their team, but having all the costs carried by one person, leaving it neglected by most of the rest of the team. This is where a corp needs to fund a tanker for PC. Reducing the cost of tanks would only lead to tank spam.

I said three to two (hard for two). And yes I can take three militia fit militia drop suits all at one time, very easily. And yes I've taken these odds before in a stand up fight. Couldn't tell you if they were actually all militia fit milita suits, but you can't go any lower than militia, so what does it matter.

Team work should be required for infantry to kill a tank. Your reasoning is flawed sir.

isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks because it changes the game into a 15vs13, 14vs10, 13vs7 etc.. (3 people busy to take care of one tank). it would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later (over time anyone can get into tanks and get the isk to do so). your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this and wake up from your tunnelvision trance.

You say that because you're not a tank pilot, and have little say in the matter.

I see that you are still in your tunnelvision troll logic mode? no one agrees with you, do yourself a favor and accept that you have to l2p or dont drive tanks

I can only quote myself...

Just putting this here again.-á

Tanks are the ultimate end game-á

one tank > one infantry unit.....
l2thinkahead

Sounds like you better start investing in tanks then.-á

As said by many, AV should be mostly a deterrent, AV grenades especially, not dealing such devastating blows per individual grenade.

Why shouldn't a PRO tank be the best thing to take on another PRO tank? What's the use of specialization then, if you're going to be a jack of all trades, having 10 different fits for just one suit? Why even have vehicles in the game in the first place, if you don't want tanks to battle each other?

So get your own tank. Nothing stopping you from getting a llav, flaylock, or duvolle, either.
And do you hate teamwork? You do realize that if you destroyed that tank, your payout would be enormous, right? Plus tanks were never easy mode even when they were good. In Chromosome, 90% of tanks died in the first 3 minutes BC they were stupid. Only a handful were good enough to get all the QQs we had. Punish us for skill, right?

Proto AV shoudnt be much of a threat to proto tanks. Proto tanks take out proto tanks. Av should be a good suppressor but manly tank vs tank is how they should be destroyed. Also they should be stronger then the advanced tanks last build :)

I think it's just you being a troll. Obvious troll is obvious.

Just putting this here again.

Tanks are the ultimate end game

one tank > one infantry unit.....
l2thinkahead

you cant read cant you? only one quote can be considered as "agreeing" with him and all those quote do not cover anything he said especially cause he havent stated any valid opinion except the regular "AV IS TOO STRONK I CANT DRIVE MY TANK"

it is also funny that you quote this:

because it is actually the opposite of agreeing.

isk never was the primary balance factor for raw strength. a tank offers the team something that nothing else is able to do thus the cost is well justified. if 2m isk is a problem for you then dont drive a tank (rule #1 of eve, dont use what you cant afford to lose). requiring a 3 people to take down a tank would mean instant win for the team with more tanks and would change the game into tanks 514 sooner or later. your arguments will matter as soon as you understand this.

Stop.

The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger.

It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more.

But as it is now, one below average AV guy with Proto Swarm can take down any tank, no matter shield or armor. Tanks should always be the best way to taking down tanks, not those no-skill cheap*** Proto Swarms...

The thing about AV vs Tanks. Is that the best fitted tanks with all mods on are pushed back by a single person with anything above standard AV and are out right destroyed when proto Av shows up.

With all modules on it should be hard for prototype AV players to kill the best fitted tanks in game which is currently not the case.

one shot from proto swarms forces any armor tanker to turn on all modules if they aren't already turned on
after that we are barely kept alive as our armor repper tries to repair to no avail as the swarms continue to hit
after 15 seconds when the armor repair times out we are either dead or have no way of keeping healed

and if you made it to cover pray to god that there is no one else close by with any kind of AV until your repper comes back

it should take 1 guy to destroy a proto tank? please just be quiet. let the vets answer this question.
i would say 1,000 more PG, 2,000 more armor, 7 low slots, no increased high slot, 20% more resistance, ISK price 3.7 mill base. of course im talking about proto ARMOR tank. the reason the stats are such a big jump is because were talking about LVL 5, were ignoring the LVL 3 tank.

@ jack

i see you are only taking into accoutn the best situation to happen for your tank

1000 shield isnt always up the only time you have1000 shields is if you have not been in combat with that tank

so saying oh your shield will absorb the initial damage when it is not up most of the time you are tanking and no armor tanker is going to wait 2 minutes for there shields to come back up every time it goes down

that is where your awareness comes into play. if you already took damage then simply down go into town but stay back. you can see red dots and have huge field of view thus you should easily see where you should not drive into. tanks have high range for a reason and there is plenty of cover on the maps. if AV tries to take you down, you simply hide and only move out to shoot something for a few seconds and hide again. the AV dudes will just waste time and the enemy is one or more players behind in raw firepower at the frontline while you still contribute by killing stuff from safety and preventing enemy movement.

if i wanted to hide and shoot something for a few seconds i would use my proto rail tank its easier more efficient safer and puts out more damage

stop assuming that every map has cover for a tank in every position that the enemy runs in

most objectives are covered and are in compounds and i refuse to go into compounds
most ways to get near the enemy is to go through the open fields since that is where the enemy is fighting your allies protecting objectives from your allies

theres barely any true cover for tanks due to how the maps are created with such high terrain swarms are easy to get anywhere they need to

i dont run solo you idiot god damn you are assuming i drive a certain way when you dont know a god damn way of how i drive my tank

I never said you drive solo but you showed us how little you know about tanks

"stop assuming that a tank is supposed to be a solo undestructible killing machine. "
you're speaking to me
"stop assuming"
means you believe i think a certain way
"solo indestructible killing machines
and you think i think that i think tanks are solo indestructibel killing machines

so i guess you showed me how little you can think about the whole picture

accoding to your post there is always cover within 100 meters of every enemy that is impossible for anyone to come near

be it LAVs
rail gun tanks
or dropships

accoding to your post there is always cover within 100 meters of every enemy that is impossible for anyone to come near

-1 tanks are they only unit in the game that can double and triple their health already and they want MORE? screw that.

Hey im immune to 99% of weapons in the game

Now if i can just convince the playerbase to let me be able to beat the 1% that counter me!

Lets be real, tanks do not need more base HP to be effective. More slots and increased CPU/PG, akin to suit progression would more than create the possibilities required for HAV progression.


With such a setup, proto tankers could choose how much tank or spank they require for a fitting or playstyle.

actual numbers of slots and cpu/pg would require playtesting for balance.

This of course is merely my opinion, and i understand this :P


edit:
the main AV i have problems with are organised teams or tower camped FG.

Every map has undulations and protrusive or architectural elements.

Controlling distances via use of active scanner and general UI awareness negates grenades, MD and FLP.

OB's do not kill my tanks... i rarely even bother to move out of them nowadays.


when all is said and done: you can't take every random variable into account, and you will lose a tank when you react erroneously to a surprise. I get to lol every now and then when i see a pro tanker lose their baby... :P even if they are in my squad :P

ps: dont bother quoting my kd/r i neither play for kd/r nor use my active (non forum troll) toons in a way that may garner battlefield bias :P

good thing that CCP collects data by themself and does not listen to biased QQ from uninformed people in the forums otherwise this game would be already dead. those 2 quotes are the best examples what happens when people not knowing how to drive a tank or what a tank is a capable of start to "argue" about it.

first of all, the majority of damage on the first swarm hit will be absorbed by the shield on an armor tanked hav, plenty of time to active the modules before the next volley hits.

biggest map currently in rotatoin where A is on a bridge and C and B are in a compound while everything else is in the open


you might be able to get to cover in a tank but its never true cover unless you are at base or underneath a structure out of range and surrounded by allies