DUST Search - How tanky/powerful would a proto-tank have to be anyway?

Son-Of A-Gun wrote:

Billi Gene wrote:

Son-Of A-Gun wrote:

Jason Pearson wrote:

Stop.

The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger.

It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more.

Like I said I'll agree with that when the AVers start paying over two mil ISK per AV fit. You want to go that route I'm all for it.

it doesnt take 3 militia fits to take out a proto suit... your logic is flawed.

proto tanks should be harder to kill, not impossible. I played this toon during the -25% AV damage nerf period, and it didnt take long before it was Merely a case of who could co-ordinate the most tanks would win. Yes the maps were smaller, and we didnt have the same range of weapons, but the lesson still stands.

Diversity is the key to having a strategic shooter, and for diversity to work everything must have an effective counter.

one option might be to adjust the damage debuff non-AV weapons suffer when firing at vehicles, THEN it would be feasible to say 3xproto AV alone to take out a proto tank..... because with the debuff gone non-AV mercs would constantly chip away at HAVs, meaning dedicated AV fits, would pose a greater threat to the longevity of a tank, forcing HAV's to remain mobile, and not return us to the point we were at with the -25% AV nerf, where tanks would just park and rain doom without fear of consequence nor need for tactical retreat.

I said three to two (hard for two). And yes I can take three militia fit militia drop suits all at one time, very easily. And yes I've taken these odds before in a stand up fight. Couldn't tell you if they were actually all militia fit milita suits, but you can't go any lower than militia, so what does it matter.

Team work should be required for infantry to kill a tank. Your reasoning is flawed sir.


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Billi Gene The Southern Legion 178	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:34:00 - [1] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Stop. The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger. It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more. Like I said I'll agree with that when the AVers start paying over two mil ISK per AV fit. You want to go that route I'm all for it. it doesnt take 3 militia fits to take out a proto suit... your logic is flawed. proto tanks should be harder to kill, not impossible. I played this toon during the -25% AV damage nerf period, and it didnt take long before it was Merely a case of who could co-ordinate the most tanks would win. Yes the maps were smaller, and we didnt have the same range of weapons, but the lesson still stands. Diversity is the key to having a strategic shooter, and for diversity to work everything must have an effective counter. one option might be to adjust the damage debuff non-AV weapons suffer when firing at vehicles, THEN it would be feasible to say 3xproto AV alone to take out a proto tank..... because with the debuff gone non-AV mercs would constantly chip away at HAVs, meaning dedicated AV fits, would pose a greater threat to the longevity of a tank, forcing HAV's to remain mobile, and not return us to the point we were at with the -25% AV nerf, where tanks would just park and rain doom without fear of consequence nor need for tactical retreat.
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 180	Posted - 2013.07.25 03:40:00 - [2] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Billi Gene wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Stop. The answer OP, is that it wouldn't have to be much stronger, if the standard AV and tanks were weaker ^_^ Or it would be a lot stronger if the Proto AV was stronger. It shouldn't take 3 AVers to kill a Tank, the argument is flawed. It should take a single good AVer with the right AV to combat a single good tanker, if the AVers are bad it'll take more. Like I said I'll agree with that when the AVers start paying over two mil ISK per AV fit. You want to go that route I'm all for it. it doesnt take 3 militia fits to take out a proto suit... your logic is flawed. proto tanks should be harder to kill, not impossible. I played this toon during the -25% AV damage nerf period, and it didnt take long before it was Merely a case of who could co-ordinate the most tanks would win. Yes the maps were smaller, and we didnt have the same range of weapons, but the lesson still stands. Diversity is the key to having a strategic shooter, and for diversity to work everything must have an effective counter. one option might be to adjust the damage debuff non-AV weapons suffer when firing at vehicles, THEN it would be feasible to say 3xproto AV alone to take out a proto tank..... because with the debuff gone non-AV mercs would constantly chip away at HAVs, meaning dedicated AV fits, would pose a greater threat to the longevity of a tank, forcing HAV's to remain mobile, and not return us to the point we were at with the -25% AV nerf, where tanks would just park and rain doom without fear of consequence nor need for tactical retreat. I said three to two (hard for two). And yes I can take three militia fit militia drop suits all at one time, very easily. And yes I've taken these odds before in a stand up fight. Couldn't tell you if they were actually all militia fit milita suits, but you can't go any lower than militia, so what does it matter. Team work should be required for infantry to kill a tank. Your reasoning is flawed sir. lol no my logic is not flawed. it does not need more than one militia suit to take out a proto suit. Your past exploits notwithstanding, meet Mr Militia Forge Gun, his damage is sufficient as is his range, that he is capable of taking out any Proto Suit given the right circumstances. ergo, given the right circumstances, it should not be impossible to take out a proto tank with less than optimal force, Proto tank should not require another proto tank nor half a squad of dedicated proto AV to be taken out. We've been down that road already, and all that happened was a game called TANKS 514. Proto should be strong, Proto should be scary, Proto should be more than effective at controlling swathes of land for a given period of time with the absence of its hard counters, but its tier and its cost in SP and isk should not entitle it to being immune from everything else in the game including destruction. That and that alone is my only real point. Even if a Proto tank is hard to kill and a proto tank kill a rare occurrence, a return to invinci-tanks just shouldn't happen.... please dear god no not that again ... :( ....
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 181	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:17:00 - [3] - Quote Lets be real, tanks do not need more base HP to be effective. More slots and increased CPU/PG, akin to suit progression would more than create the possibilities required for HAV progression. With such a setup, proto tankers could choose how much tank or spank they require for a fitting or playstyle. actual numbers of slots and cpu/pg would require playtesting for balance. This of course is merely my opinion, and i understand this :P