It will be dynamic in that we can change the threshold very easily ourselves, we will absolutely be data mining how well this goes and adjusting accordingly.

Yeah this is in general why I'm not so in favor of a hard limit. A gradient of experience and skill level is really what we are after and that is what a proper match making solution should provide (it's also really difficult to do but we are working on it).

My concern is that there be enough in both the "newb" pool and the vet pool that we all get our games within the launch times we are used to.

I hope this is the most important metric.

Overall I would say that the newb pool should consist of the players that are loading in with swarm launchers and expecting to kill infantry with them.

In other words the really first time players.

I would guess that for WP the number should be 10k or so.

Yeah this is in general why I'm not so in favor of a hard limit. A gradient of experience and skill level is really what we are after and that is what a proper match making solution should provide (it's also really difficult to do but we are working on it).

My thoughts on this - hard limit obviously bad. Passing a threshold and just instantly go from one game being manageable to forever going forward being thrown in with the sharks has made me flat out quit games in the past.

Also, WP is a bad measure to base all of this on. It's essentially a "time played" indicator that if you're in the low end of the pool, you will never relatively get out of it as everyone else above you continues to progress away from you at the same rate you go toward them. WP also isn't an indicator of you having learned anything worthwhile when it comes to playing the game well enough to not get slaughtered.

Tiel,

I must respectfully disagree, I do think War Points earned is a valid metric for measuring a players' experience in DUST.

I caveat that statement with: WP may not be the BEST metric but as far as a simple SINGLE variable I think it is optimal.

To earn WP in DUST you have to successfully perform actions that the game deems contributory to success. Such as: kill red dots, heal blue dots, provide spawn or resupply assets to blue dots, hack red assets, etc.

You don't earn WP passively and while your WP total is positively boosted through squad play that is also viewed as experienced player behavior (team game you know) and should be rewarded.

I must politely disagree with another poster's suggestion that K:D reflects experienced play. If your K:D is high your WP total is high but for those players that are not front line trigger pullers ( logistics support role for example) K:D will always be low despite our experienced DUST play.

Developing a game where people fight at what level they are comfortable with, like eve's different sectors and ratings will be a hard adjustment to make. I don't feel i'm in the hardend vet level. I'm good because my team is good. Most shooters I'm at a 1.5-2 kdr. So I usually dish out a little more than i take, but when it came to dust there was a steep and long learning curve.

After 3 months I was certainly not a noob in the way that I was familliar with some of the lore, how battle worked, and the different weapons, but I still do not fight on a proto vet level. ADV gear is usually the max I'll go, rarely will i break out the proto. But that is the level I am at. And If I had to jump in with the vets at 1 or 2 mill sp there would have been no challenge for them and a hell of a lot for me. It has taken me some time to learn and deal with the tweaks to play decent. I rely on the cheap kills, kill helping, camping, surprise attack, etc. I get a hell of alot of assists too. 1v1 most people can out juke my inability to aim.

Fighting proto vets is the same. I still don't have the skill to keep up. If there was a skill balanced or KDR balance mode I would be there. I don't want to fight proto vets, and I don't want to fight noobs either.

There is truth in that you must fight against better skilled players to get any better yourself... but at some point it feels like the equipment gap supremely enhances the skill gap. And that is what new players will struggle with. The perfect fits for their playstyle.

I'm a dedicated logi, in all honesty I should probably be a scout with knives and a shotty. Quick hits, quick kills, but this role is more challenging and I like that. but it is not for everyone. So I'm glad you'll be data mining and finding new solutions.

Which bring us to the main problem is that as any fps where you can come right in and start smashing **** You can never catch up in this game.

While you guys are tweaking MM, how about a squadless option? (pre and post formed) Being able to enjoy myself solo is almost impossible as of late, as it's always one team curb stomping the other due to stacked squads of good players.

Would be nice if I could play Dust and have fun without always having to squad up. Plus when both teams don't have squads, it is SO much more even.

This isn't really true. It was proven in EVE, which is a decade old game.

Even if you had unlimited SP, there's only so much of it you can use at any given time. Once skills related to players' current fits are maxed, only player skill separates them.

Now, in Chromosome, that SP amount was roughly 10mil. It's similar in Uprising for basic suits, 15mil or so for advanced suits.

Which means it takes a brand-spankin' new player roughly half a year to be on equal footing with "vets" in terms of SP they can effectively bring into battle with them.

Having a "noob area" helps them get their initial skilling up under their belt like HP and damage increases before they're tossed in the mix.

My point is not so much the ability to catch up as it is the fact that it is being called a new release which it is not. It is a carry over from beta. So you think that as BF4 comes out new MW4 etc come out that ppl are going to stick around and play this title when they are already looking at 6months to catch up on a game that hasnt even been officially released?

I dont think so. I mean i respect your opinion and i didnt know there was a cap on the total amount of sp taht can be spent. However when this game is being promoted as a beta a week ago and i started playing and is now bout to be released and is being called new with ppl already at 10mil+ sp I take offense to the fact that it was suggested to be new.

I think this is a good point. New players joining the game are literally millions of SP and ISK behind, because CCP took the unusual move of letting players keep their progress from open beta. I don't recall any other game doing that, at least in the MMO space. It's actually kind of silly, if you think about it, but it was probably the only way to appease players who put up with a seemingly endless beta. You could argue that new players could have gotten on the train months ago, but it's not like CCP has made a lot of noise about Dust. I could see new players being rightly miffed about the disparity.

The problem is we have people that feel as if progression is directly related to the longevity of the game. PC is what should drive the longevity of this game. We all know CCP has to make money, but increasing the cost of core skills and adding useless "specialized" drop suits was just a ridiculous.

Having specialized suits does not equate to specialization. Specialization are the skills that the player invested into to maximize their desired play style. When players reach the 10m SP threshold they Plateau. Rather than growing taller players being to grow wider. They begin to focus on optimizing their drop suit, and making it perform in such a way that they are able to maximize the success at their desired play style.

The changes in the skill tree have destroyed dropsuit optimization, and have once again forced people back into the rat race to grind endlessly for SP.

I'll make it clear for all the neckbeards and EVE nerds grinding for SP doesn't help the longevity of the game. The faster more people have prototype gear the better this game will be. When I started playing this game over a year ago I wasn't looking to grind endlessly in order to ensure that I remain above or even keep up with the SP curve, but I was looking for battles that actually mattered. All the senseless grinding is actually a turn off, and in someways provides a barrier of entry for competitive FPS players looking to have good fights.

The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP.