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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Leanna Boghin
B.O.D.A.S
0
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:19:00 -
[301] - Quote
OK this is how i think it should be setup
Boot Camp: 20,000 WP 3,000,000 ISK Academy: 50,000 WP 5,000,000 ISK Spec Ops Training: 70,000 WP 8,000,000 ISK
After that they can join the normal ranks of Dust514. Although this is a rough idea and the values could be changed to accommodate the game i feel putting the game into tiers based on this would be most helpful. I also believe separating each Tier so players can choose battle types that are currently available, with Boot Camp having a sort of tutorial guideline as they play their first few matches.
Well this just my idea on how it should go anyways. |
Eris Ernaga
Super Nerds
214
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Posted - 2013.06.15 23:12:00 -
[302] - Quote
Do it by allocated sp |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
91
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Posted - 2013.06.16 14:00:00 -
[303] - Quote
It needs to be WP and total SP.
ISK is terribly easy to make but it's easy enough to keep yourself under any amount by purchasing items.
All that using allocated SP would do is increase the amount of people abusing the academy to increase their k/d ratio. Furthermore, the purpose of the academy is to teach players the game mechanics and if they aren't spending their SP then they either don't understand the mechanics or they understand them too well to be in the academy. |
Rian CuThalion
D3LTA ACADEMY
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 18:01:00 -
[304] - Quote
Do it by war points they don't lie and you can't loophole around them. |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
92
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Posted - 2013.06.18 00:23:00 -
[305] - Quote
I could afk in the MCC and make no WP but rake in the SP and ISK.
There has to be some compromise as the current system can put you into the main game a bit early. |
Justin Aim
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.06.18 22:33:00 -
[306] - Quote
^ ^ I agree. There must be some sort of compromise. Perhaps an upward limit on the SP accumulated during training.
Set a dual requirement on WP and SP but if the character gets "too much" SP due to excessive passive accumulation or some kind of farming then they kicked to genpop based on principle.
Boot Camp - 10K WP, 1mil SP Academy - 20K WP, 2mil SP*
*if you get to 2.5 or 3 mil SP you get called up to the bigs. |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
93
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:45:00 -
[307] - Quote
That I like. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
845
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Posted - 2013.06.19 20:53:00 -
[308] - Quote
Apologies if this has been said. Only skimmed over the thread.
As I understand it, the purpose of the Academy is to improve player retention. We want players who are absolutely new to the game, have never had an encounter with New Eden, to not rage quit and never come back. The Academy serves to reduce the level of prison r4pe new mercs will inevitably experience.
While I know no one wants to separate the player base, and many knee-jerk bittervets will cry HTFU (and in most capacities I agree), people do need to realize that this FPS is radically different from anything most gamers have ever played. To the uninitiated, DUST514 is as hardcore and unforgiving as it gets. EVE would probably give most people here a panic attack.
That's not to say we can't educate them.
The trick is we need nubs to stick around long enough to get New Eden in their blood. 20,000 WP and a couple Skirmish matches doesn't accomplish this. We need a controlled environment where new players can acclimate to "New Eden" before being thrown the sharks. New players should be isolated long enough for themselves to see the difference that SP and teamwork mean. They should have incentives to play frequently, they should be exposed to AUR gear and 1 day Boosters.
Currently there is no hook.
The Academy should be a controlled ecosystem that reflects the ideals and philosphy of New Eden without immediately burning out anyone interested in getting involved. We want people to acclimate to the cruelty and the harshness. We want these players to want to get r4ped.
Increasing the requirements for graduation is one way to accomplish this. Let people stay in the academy until they have 4-5 million SP. Raise WP respectively. This gives them some core skills, a proto weapon and suit. This also creates a healthy SP gradient; old members of the Academy have a noticeable edge over noobs, and so helps people understand that there will always be older, SP richer players. The current problem with the Academy is that this gradient is almost non-existent. New players do not understand there is a gap.
Create boosters, and AUR items locked to a character. Get new people spending AUR. Drug dealing 101, CPP. Drug dealing 101.
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Aliakin Koreck
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.06.20 06:39:00 -
[309] - Quote
Great idea ccp
No matchmaking though |
Mikael Murray
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.06.21 02:10:00 -
[310] - Quote
Matchmaking is coming in 1.2 finally.
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IMMORTAL WAR HERO
Ill Omens EoN.
0
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Posted - 2013.06.21 06:34:00 -
[311] - Quote
ccp needs to get rid of battle academy lol I made an alt went pay to win tank lol It it definetly doesn't help blueberries lol I went pay to win tank there was only 3 kill that weren't mine in a game of ambush........ that's not fair 2 noobs I havnte seen people throw normal av and shoot at my tank since chromazone build lol the half of them looked like they didn't even know this game had tanks. this game needs a better tutorial....eg throw a flux at a tank not a locus |
IMMORTAL WAR HERO
Ill Omens EoN.
0
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Posted - 2013.06.21 06:42:00 -
[312] - Quote
dust 514 needs a hands on turtorial 4 noobs to fps like get them to complete a optional tutorial course where ccp sets payers up against bots and have them try testing things on stuff like grenades. ive noticed a lot of people don't even realize tanks use boosters and ive seen people make fail fit tanks because they didn't know better to add em make a vehicle tutorial or something so people don't squander their time on it to find they don't like it |
Fredrikson Revel
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2013.06.22 00:44:00 -
[313] - Quote
Yeah a fresh tutorial would be good |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
94
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 04:07:00 -
[314] - Quote
Fredrikson Revel wrote:-snip- Reported for irrelevance and spam. If you want to discuss other games do so in the locker room.
Oh and the only reason I'm posting this is because you are going to say that CCP censored you because you were talking about another game. The fact is you've posted the same thing in nine different topics, none of which are relevant to the topic being discussed(well maybe one, but that topic is in the wrong section anyway). |
dustwaffle
Ill Omens EoN.
98
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 07:18:00 -
[315] - Quote
I like the idea many people have put forth regarding boot camp and academy in this thread.
Supporting +1
Boot camp: starting - 15k/20k WP (or 1.5mil/2 mil SP) Academy: 15k/20k WP - 50k/40k WP (or 5mil/4mil SP)
As someone mentioned this would created a 'gradient' showing newbies that there are players with higher SP out there which can affect their gameplay. As a new bro, you would be limited to Boot Camp. Once out of boot camp, maybe have the option of joining the 'big boys' (i.e. regular instant matches) or the tiered matches, as well as academy. Upon leaving the academy, the only options are tiered matches and regular games.
Next, as above, something like a tiered system would also be nice, and also force players to adapt their fits to such playstyle.
Standard battles: All game types (randomly selected), restricted to standard modules and below ADV battles: All game types (randomly selected), restricted to advanced modules and below
Then your basic ambush, OMS, skirmish, domination where everything goes.
Alternatively, turn the Standard battles into academy. |
ROEG X
Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 10:04:00 -
[316] - Quote
I think that the best way to learn how to play Dust is to communicate in game with the more experience Dust players. There are alot of players in corporations who don't mind helping someone who is new to the game out. I think allowing a new Dust player to play against some of the best Dust players will give a new player some insight on how the more experienced Dust players play as well as seeing some of the best unique gear set ups in battle. To get really good at Dust I believe you have to see the best Dust players play in game and no matter how much you die the greatest advice people gave me was to simply keep playing. Everyone is talking about having certain match making requirements I tend to think that hurts players gameplay experience and limits them to seeing how really good Dust players customize their dropsuits,weapons and vehicles. Everyday I play Dust I see some really good players with some great set ups with their dropsuits, weapons and vehicles. My opinion, get rid of the academy watch a tutorial video and go into the big matches and learn, I will guarantee you will meet someone who will play with you and show some things about the game. The Dust experience is about meeting people, teaming up and learning new ways to upgrade the kind of mercenary you want to become.I Say No to the Academy get rid of it and No to match making, I like playing against players better than me, I love a challenge no matter if I lose. To me thats the only way you get better.
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licio br
TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN.
2
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Posted - 2013.06.27 02:47:00 -
[317] - Quote
If the battle academy is for "new players", why do I keep getting killed by people with proto weapons and gear?
At the end of each match the top 2/3 of each team has 2, 3 x as much WP than the rest of the teams average.
This seems way unbalanced to be fun and makes the grinding painfully frustrating. |
Divu Aakmin
S.e.V.e.N.
4
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Posted - 2013.06.27 15:11:00 -
[318] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:Apologies if this has been said. Only skimmed over the thread.
As I understand it, the purpose of the Academy is to improve player retention. We want players who are absolutely new to the game, have never had an encounter with New Eden, to not rage quit and never come back. The Academy serves to reduce the level of prison r4pe new mercs will inevitably experience.
While I know no one wants to separate the player base, and many knee-jerk bittervets will cry HTFU (and in most capacities I agree), people do need to realize that this FPS is radically different from anything most gamers have ever played. To the uninitiated, DUST514 is as hardcore and unforgiving as it gets. EVE would probably give most people here a panic attack.
That's not to say we can't educate them.
The trick is we need nubs to stick around long enough to get New Eden in their blood. 20,000 WP and a couple Skirmish matches doesn't accomplish this. We need a controlled environment where new players can acclimate to "New Eden" before being thrown the sharks. New players should be isolated long enough for themselves to see the difference that SP and teamwork mean. They should have incentives to play frequently, they should be exposed to AUR gear and 1 day Boosters.
Currently there is no hook.
The Academy should be a controlled ecosystem that reflects the ideals and philosphy of New Eden without immediately burning out anyone interested in getting involved. We want people to acclimate to the cruelty and the harshness. We want these players to want to get r4ped.
Increasing the requirements for graduation is one way to accomplish this. Let people stay in the academy until they have 4-5 million SP. Raise WP respectively. This gives them some core skills, a proto weapon and suit. This also creates a healthy SP gradient; old members of the Academy have a noticeable edge over noobs, and so helps people understand that there will always be older, SP richer players. The current problem with the Academy is that this gradient is almost non-existent. New players do not understand there is a gap.
Create boosters, and AUR items locked to a character. Get new people spending AUR. Drug dealing 101, CPP. Drug dealing 101.
yes. Perhaps have a shortwinded bootcamp tutorial up to 1mil sp and then the 5mil sp cap academy. |
N311V
DUST University Ivy League
15
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 23:11:00 -
[319] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:My biggest problem is that there's clearly organised groups of veteran players forming alts and joining Academy matches in squads with the express purpose of stomping newbs purely for the lols.
Aside from this being rather low (the argument that it teaches them the harsh realities of New Eden holds no water with me) its also counterproductive in terms if what the academy matches are trying to achieve.
I'm beginning to be in favour of not just limiting Academy access account wide but going beyond that and limiting access based on the MAC address of individual PS3's.
This point exactly. I created an alt yesterday so I could enter academy and show my brother the ropes and this was a clear problem. To any experienced player squad play is obvious and out of six or so matches there was only a couple where this wasn't happening. My brother summened it up best the first time he ran into a squad when he said "Oh my God, I just got destroyed by about 5 guys! I've never seen more than two together!".
I started playing Dust just before the academy was implemented so I know what it's initial week was like, and it was very different. To illustrate the difference, in a whole week of academy I doubt I saw more than three LAVs and I had no idea HAVs and Dropships existed until after I'd left the academy. Whereas yesterday I saw snipers being dropped off on buildings by Dropships (who were then placing uplinks on buildings), murder taxis galore, tankers, HMG users, but still the rampant squads of vets felt like the biggest problem.
Your solution sounds like it might be an option. |
IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University Ivy League
95
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:15:00 -
[320] - Quote
A video tutorial showing firing from cover, or showing players that never hip-fire automatic weapons would be a good start. Cover some basics like 'Don't try to shoot the MCC' or 'Squad Up.' Academy is just too easy, and usually trolled by Mercs looking to grief.
Gear is a reward for playing, it enhances what you can already accomplish. It is not an "I win" button. Militia gear can kill Prototype. It is the person making the decisions that lead to the kill, not the gear.
We have to teach these n00bs to survive in a safe environment. Not corral them for a few hours and see what happens when we release them to the Mongolian hordes. |
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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
31
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Posted - 2013.07.04 00:38:00 -
[321] - Quote
the academy is a great thing even with bittervets exploiting it, personally I believe the real answer to orienting noobs is a pve environment... most fps have campaign mode and this is where most new players acclimate themselves to the controls, mechanics and icons/displays in the game. this would give noobs the chance to earn some sp some isk and some familiarity with the various suits and weapons... that being said and doubting a pve campaign will come anytime soon I look to eve for the perfect answer... in EVE there are noob systems where anyone can come and go as they please but CCP has special rules for that area i.e. no scaming or suicide ganking lest you risk the ban hammer... some version of this could be in dust, where for instance matches only allowing starter fits or militia gear is allowed and all skills ( i.e. armor upgrades, heavy weapons, dropsuit upgrades etc) are brought down to an effective level of 1. as far as murder taxis and dropships and the like go this is part of dust and new players may actualy benefit from seeing these things from the jump... it should get them asking themselves " can I do that to?... how do I do that?' |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
108
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:50:00 -
[322] - Quote
I expect the drone missions will be the first thing you see in the game(when it's introduced), then the academy, then the real game. |
killian178
Elite Gamers Militia
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 03:24:00 -
[323] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Developing a game where people fight at what level they are comfortable with, like eve's different sectors and ratings will be a hard adjustment to make. I don't feel i'm in the hardend vet level. I'm good because my team is good. Most shooters I'm at a 1.5-2 kdr. So I usually dish out a little more than i take, but when it came to dust there was a steep and long learning curve.
After 3 months I was certainly not a noob in the way that I was familliar with some of the lore, how battle worked, and the different weapons, but I still do not fight on a proto vet level. ADV gear is usually the max I'll go, rarely will i break out the proto. But that is the level I am at. And If I had to jump in with the vets at 1 or 2 mill sp there would have been no challenge for them and a hell of a lot for me. It has taken me some time to learn and deal with the tweaks to play decent. I rely on the cheap kills, kill helping, camping, surprise attack, etc. I get a hell of alot of assists too. 1v1 most people can out juke my inability to aim.
Fighting proto vets is the same. I still don't have the skill to keep up. If there was a skill balanced or KDR balance mode I would be there. I don't want to fight proto vets, and I don't want to fight noobs either.
There is truth in that you must fight against better skilled players to get any better yourself... but at some point it feels like the equipment gap supremely enhances the skill gap. And that is what new players will struggle with. The perfect fits for their playstyle.
I'm a dedicated logi, in all honesty I should probably be a scout with knives and a shotty. Quick hits, quick kills, but this role is more challenging and I like that. but it is not for everyone. So I'm glad you'll be data mining and finding new solutions. And +1 to that. |
Zero Roamero
NaphBlade
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 17:05:00 -
[324] - Quote
I don't see it on the Instant Batlle Menu.... |
GTA-V FTW
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
241
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:13:00 -
[325] - Quote
Pssst, hey CCP.
Hey I know you guys mostly only hang out in IRC with the cool kids but you might want to take a look at some of the concerns being voiced about the new changes (aka nerf) you have made to Battle Academy. Here let me help get you started, now don't be afraid the the truth only hurts for just a little while then the pain goes away.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1119136#post1119136
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1122876#post1122876
I know, I know the IRC is a warm and fuzzy place to hang out and be told how great your game is by all the Fanboys but you may want to venture out of your safe place once and a while so you can find out what really is going on with your game.
Okay then, sorry I disturbed you from the cool kids group. |
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